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knox
Oct 28, 2004

FrostyPox posted:

I have a visceral hatred of Ironbreakers because I played a Blackguard in live and IBs were better in pretty much every respect IIRC (if I ever play RoR I'll still probably play a Blackguard or IB)

BG is really good and so is IB on RoR server; both are very good in 6 man ranked stuff doing a lot of damage 2H, and also good in warbands. Tank is only archtype I don't have at 40 I need to finish leveling my BG from 32.

Vermain posted:

That was the level range where I quit the game, because I made the foolish decision to play Destruction, and Ironbreaker - which Destruction had no equivalent to on launch - had this incredibly strong knockback (which I think was AoE) that made every single battleground in the magma map completely onesided. Just one of those things that inspired zero confidence in the dev team going forwards, so I ditched while the ditching was good.

Some dude in a RoR streamer's twitch chat;

Zarbix Twitch Chat posted:

1:34:16
GamingDaReal_Bl3ss3D:I used to play this from Alpha till the last day
1:34:52
GamingDaReal_Bl3ss3D:< was a Community Mod for the game lol I didnt know their was a private server
1:36:15
GamingDaReal_Bl3ss3D:Thnx to the Something Awful/Goons they destroyed the game they brought in tons of Subs then bounced all at once and the game just tanked

And healers are the poo poo, Runepriest is my highest lvl RR72 and so is my DoK for destro healer but I haven't enjoyed playing that class as much. I need to spend a lot of hours gearing my Sorc so I can AoE bomb properly.

knox fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Sep 29, 2022

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Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL

Nap Ghost

jokes posted:

Warrior Priest is one of the best healers and I think one of the earliest melee healers where you needed to use melee skills in order to heal and that's a really cool dynamic

:psydwarf:

One of the cool things WHO did that I haven't seen another MMO do was let you have a defensive and offensive target simultaneously. No need for macros or mouseovers. Just select a friend you want to heal and an enemy you want to hurt.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Aren't there like 12 goons playing this game? e: oh does he mean at launch?

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Just lol at the idea that the reason the game failed was people unsubscribed and then blaming the people and not the game. Or the unfinished product.

NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO

jokes posted:

Warrior Priest is one of the best healers and I think one of the earliest melee healers where you needed to use melee skills in order to heal and that's a really cool dynamic

Smacking bad guys with a giant hammer to heal my friends is a vibe and mechanic I have been chasing in tabletop and video games ever since I played WAR at launch. So cool and fun.

knox
Oct 28, 2004

30.5 Days posted:

Aren't there like 12 goons playing this game? e: oh does he mean at launch?

Only me playing game essentially lol he was referring to live.

Third World Reagan posted:

Just lol at the idea that the reason the game failed was people unsubscribed and then blaming the people and not the game. Or the unfinished product.

Yeah absurd statement, still funny.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



WAR was one of those games where you could very clearly tell it was unfinished after less than a week of playing. They did a good job slapping enough paint on the opening zones to cover up the cracks, but things became increasingly spartan and increasingly broken the further you got from the start. Didn't help that the game was terribly optimized: I was playing it on a machine that could run WoW perfectly fine, but even going into a battleground in WAR on the lowest settings was like sticking a fork into my GPU.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
I still remember T2 chaos had this troll quest where you were just supposed to kill a bunch of trolls until big daddy troll came out.

And he would one shot everyone. Didn't matter the level or health.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Also power leveling people in land of the dead off of lizards or off of the giant in the chaos city that was in a cell off of the arena floor.

The giant wouldn't attack, but you could get a chosen to use an aura to pull him out, and then level 10's could just dps him down.

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011
y'all, guild wars 1 still rips and beats rear end

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

John McClane posted:

y'all, guild wars 1 still rips and beats rear end

There's no jump button in GW1.

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011
And look what happened when they tried to make a game with a jump button

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:
SWG didn’t have a jump button and it ruled.

If GW1 had jumping it’d probably have awful jumping puzzles like GW2.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

GW1 is not an MMO it is a CRPG deckbuilder.

Phoix
Jul 20, 2006




Vermain posted:

WAR was one of those games where you could very clearly tell it was unfinished after less than a week of playing. They did a good job slapping enough paint on the opening zones to cover up the cracks, but things became increasingly spartan and increasingly broken the further you got from the start. Didn't help that the game was terribly optimized: I was playing it on a machine that could run WoW perfectly fine, but even going into a battleground in WAR on the lowest settings was like sticking a fork into my GPU.

Don't forget that turning down one of the settings made the game run significantly better but also made the most damaging and popular AOE in the game invisible.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Phoix posted:

Don't forget that turning down one of the settings made the game run significantly better but also made the most damaging and popular AOE in the game invisible.

Such is the unknowable ways of tzeentch

Fried Sushi
Jul 5, 2004

Don't forget 'Mythic Seconds', where the latency was so bad they had to code their cast bars to fake the actual cast time, ie spell takes 2 seconds to cast, server latency is so bad it actually takes 5, 'Mythic Seconds' would stretch the cast bar out so it didn't look like it was lagging. Don't remember the full details and can't find any references online anymore, think it was from some disgruntled dev venting on a forum shortly after the game shutdown.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
they did a really bad job with that game but it led to Enter The Gungeon existing so who can say if it's good or bad

VoidTek
Jul 30, 2002

HAPPYELF WAS RIGHT
I remember playing the Chaos Chosen, which was about the closest mirror to Ironbreaker they had at the time (Black Guard wasn't in when the game went live). All the effort put into those stupid auras. The lovely damage. But it was all worth it because I finally got to a level where I got my own knockback ability! Let's see how those chuffin' dwarfs like being booted off bridges instead! Ha ha!

And then when I actually used the ability on somebody it would maybe, maybe bop them away an inch or two. I can't remember if it was ever actually confirmed, but on a purely anecdotal level I feel like the game calculated the knockback trajectory differently between the two classes based on their size. So while dwarfs would punt people up and away, the Chosen's was entirely parallel to the ground, so any ground clutter or tiny variation in the terrain meant that the target would just instantly come to a stop. I wouldn't say that was the entire reason I quit the game (that would probably be the Everything Else), but it sure contributed.

At least my Squig Hunter got to relentlessly murder people with arrers because for some reason everybody at the time thought it was a worthless class and I was the only one playing it, and there was like no feedback you were being shot at.

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011

jokes posted:

GW1 is not an MMO it is a CRPG deckbuilder.

Correct

Mr. Pickles
Mar 19, 2014



In to report, jump puzzles are good. They rule in GW2 and were also Wildstar's only redeeming quality

Having to do them on every alt must be frustrating for the oldheads, though.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Some of GW2's solutions are really janky but they're good in principle. FF14's though... realising how precision jumping worked in that game was horrifying

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011
GW2 is good, jump puzzles are good, it's just not the kind of followup to gw1 a lot of people wanted

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

I was really excited about having a z-axis coming from GW1, if there's a part that doesnt fit its the heavy emphasis on swimming in the base campaign imo

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

gw2 doesn't have explicitly laid-out roles but the way the meta boils down you absolutely have supports and they're like some of the worst-feeling supports I've played in an MMO because they're expected to be walking Quickness/Alacrity (attack speed / cooldown reduction) dispensers above all else. it's really sad because supports were incredibly good in GW1.

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011
Guild wars 1 is great because I love to be constantly shouting

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Back when I used to do it, anything meta in GW2 felt awful l. The goal was to farm as efficiently as possible which was achieved by everyone standing on top of each other and LOS abusing enemies into your aoe.

Zet
Aug 3, 2010

No Dignity posted:

Some of GW2's solutions are really janky but they're good in principle. FF14's though... realising how precision jumping worked in that game was horrifying

How does it work in 14? Because as far as I can tell it doesn't :/

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Zet posted:

How does it work in 14? Because as far as I can tell it doesn't :/

Your air momentum is entirely dictated by your movement speed when you jumped, so precision platforming is done by hitting the sweet spot between starting movement and the top speed of your run animation as required for the jump (which in practice means finding the right moment between running for .3 and .4 seconds where your jump will convert into the right aerial momentum to land safely)

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Zet posted:

How does it work in 14? Because as far as I can tell it doesn't :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5WZSCfV1U

Zet
Aug 3, 2010

No Dignity posted:

Your air momentum is entirely dictated by your movement speed when you jumped, so precision platforming is done by hitting the sweet spot between starting movement and the top speed of your run animation as required for the jump (which in practice means finding the right moment between running for .3 and .4 seconds where your jump will convert into the right aerial momentum to land safely)

Aaaaaa. Yeah, that explains a lot of what I experienced with that summer tower jumping puzzle. Thanks!


lmao

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

It's been ages since I played either but the main contrast I recall between GW2 and SW:TOR's jumping puzzles (because I was playing them at the same time) is that GW@ had awareness of how the character moved. Some were jank, but they were usually one jump-length away. The Old Republic had some really nice platforming that bore absolutely no relation to the Castlevania jumps your character was locked into.

FreeWifi!!
Oct 11, 2013

Okay, that's true. Good point, Marquess. Point for you. But you get a point taken away for being a dick. So, back to zero.

FrostyPox posted:

I have a visceral hatred of Ironbreakers because I played a Blackguard in live and IBs were better in pretty much every respect IIRC (if I ever play RoR I'll still probably play a Blackguard or IB)

I really tried to understand the IB class...

Am i a Tank
Am i DPS?
Am i DPS/Tank?

Maybe i didnt spend more time with that class to fully understand it, so i would mash my keyboard in hopes for the best
and never made it past level 4 before i deleted my IB.

I just brushed off my 40 WH and maaan do i need a respec...

John McClane
Nov 14, 2011

No Dignity posted:

Your air momentum is entirely dictated by your movement speed when you jumped, so precision platforming is done by hitting the sweet spot between starting movement and the top speed of your run animation as required for the jump (which in practice means finding the right moment between running for .3 and .4 seconds where your jump will convert into the right aerial momentum to land safely)

Also your hitbox or whatever is a cylinder surrounding you that is much wider and taller than you expect, so you can get hung up on geometry really easy and often need to land in what appears to be mid air for some puzzle

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Tanks have to spec for DPS for a long while but you are never really a DPS class.

Your role is mainly protection and crowd control. You got sub roles based on spec and class.

Like a chosens -25% healing aura isn't great, but it helps out. Their damage aura is ok for soloing pve, but in a large group you are doing so little damage.

A good knock back from any class can send people away from their healers. Normally you punt them back into your own dps. You also have the health to survive this.. most of the time.

Otherwise your ability to raise other peoples defense is also pretty big.

knox
Oct 28, 2004

FreeWifi!! posted:

I really tried to understand the IB class...

Am i a Tank
Am i DPS?
Am i DPS/Tank?

Maybe i didnt spend more time with that class to fully understand it, so i would mash my keyboard in hopes for the best
and never made it past level 4 before i deleted my IB.

I just brushed off my 40 WH and maaan do i need a respec...

IB's are the poo poo, 2H spec in small scale rules and can put out a lot of damage in the right gear, and your sword-n-board spec is super good in warbands, you're constantly refreshing buffs keep them up. A little more difficult to play than others but it's really good class.

I want to get a tank to 40 in RoR soon since it's only archetype I haven't gotten max level.

I'm up to RR73 on Runepriest now, not stopping till I got best-in-slot for it and possibly Sorc if I can find a steady destro warband to grind with.

knox fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Oct 2, 2022

Khorne
May 1, 2002

OhFunny posted:

Lost Ark looks to be the current hotness with actual staying power. It's been holding at 200k concurrent players on Steam. I can't speak for its endgame content though.
A lot of those are bots. It's probably somewhere between 70k and 100k concurrent. When they managed to block all bots there were ~90k concurrent players a few months ago.

Mr. Neutron posted:

It still does not support controllers though, does it?
Lost Ark supports controller reasonably well. Not sure how tolerable the out-of-combat stuff while chilling in town/finding groups is with a controller, but doing the initial solo content and any type of pve content is fine with it.

I'm a big controller hater but I know at least one person who plays with one.

Hyper Inferno posted:

Lost Ark's endgame content is the furthest thing away from casual friendly as possible. The only way to progress gear at any meaningful pace is to do the high end raids and there is no way around it.
These raids are all pugged every week and fairly casual friendly. Gate 3 of clown, which just came out last week, is the first raid gate that isn't casual friendly but that opinion might change as people get more familiar with it.

There are some issues with finding/making "learning" groups for players who don't know the raids. If someone is willing to organize one or ask around it's not a big deal, but sometimes you get people of questionable intelligence who join the first party they see in party finder without reading the title and then complain.

Starting out, there is a carry selling culture that charges less than the raw gold reward from doing the content. For everything except the newest raid.


Lost Ark also has a weird time investment curve. If you just want to chill and casually play you can get to most of the raids pretty quick now & your chores will be 20 minutes every 3 days. It's only if you want to "keep up" with the latest progression that it becomes a time sink of daily chores. It also encourages addiction by massively rewarding additional time investment into alts, etc.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 7, 2022

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Phigs posted:

Nothing I said makes a persistent world impossible.

Imagine an MMO "Battle Royale" where the world doesn't restart constantly and instead people and places respawn over time and there is no dwindling circle. People spawn in without items and they're tasked with quickly finding their items and maybe even leveling up their characters. Then you've got resources around that you gather the same way as your gear, and you can kill players to get a % of the resources they've gathered and their gear. Every player dies after a certain amount of time and has to respawn just like as if they died. They can also get to special locations on the map to bank their full resources and respawn. The resources you gather pay for a meta progression that gives you better/different starting characters/items or lets you level up into different specs or make different gear or whatever. The characters can be your clones or summons or something like that.

The world persists, the characters don't. Or keep the characters and just reset their gear. Or whatever, this is just a quick idea to illustrate a possibility, not a game pitch. :banjo:

Point is this way you focus on making a game that is fun to regear/relevel because players are expected to do it always, and nobody loses anything beyond a % of gathered resources on death because they were going to lose all that anyway. I think a central problem of PVP in a lot of MMOs is you have a game where players want to make vertical progress and then somehow expect them to be okay with someone coming along and setting them backwards on that progress. Ideally you'd want to somehow make a game where the consequences of being killed are themselves desirable, that it is part of the gameplay loop such that players would be wanting to engage in it if they like the game.

This is how I wish Sea of Thieves worked.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Bognar posted:

This is how I wish Sea of Thieves worked.

Sea of Thieves was so frustrating because it's so close to being an amazing game.

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I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Groovelord Neato posted:

Sea of Thieves was so frustrating because it's so close to being an amazing game.

How is it nowadays? It seems like its been getting the No Mans Sky treatment but not nearly as much as that game.

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