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Antonymous posted:It's really basic stuff. But the vibe of the "kill the auteur theory" guy is not one of solidarity - he wants to advance his career riding the coattails. He even implies he can do it better "guys, I know the group of people who everyone saw in interviews and who are known publicly for being the "faces" of Disco Elysium got secretly fired and nobody said anything about it until the Lead Editor sent an internet letter out of a ward in the mental institution, but why not focus on what really matters: -I- am still writing for ZA/UM! I am far better at it, too! and did I mention my education? why can't we all just be happy for me and my friends right now?!" absolutely no sense of solidarity at all, instead a bunch of catty posts on twitter. just writers being writers, I guess. business as usual for that particular sphere tbh. if it comes out that Kurvitz & pals were running some sort of secret cult and sacrificing the other writers to Moloch or something then I'll retract
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Oct 3, 2022 19:58
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Blankspace posted:if it comes out that Kurvitz & pals were running some sort of secret cult and sacrificing the other writers to Moloch or something then I'll retract That's pretty metal, this would make me support them more.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:03
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Disabled the replies  https://twitter.com/studioZAUM/status/1576982903678197761
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Oct 3, 2022 20:05
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IDK about everyone else but the DE sequel I wanted was another game made by good writers that centered narrative and roleplay, not the continuing adventures of Detective Cousteau or a further exploration of the DEverse. I thought the world was pretty much finished and a sequel in the same setting would start to feel kind of tired, given how much Encyclopedia taught us about the place on the first go-around Which is to say that if the ousted writers are the auteurs they seem to be, then being cut off from the IP they created is only a problem for me insofar as it means their next game will take that much longer to make. Also it will be funny if DE2 is like an open world looter shooter with microtransactions or something.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:07
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Is it time to make Zybourne Clock 2?
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Oct 3, 2022 20:10
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worm girl posted:Also it will be funny if DE2 is like an open world looter shooter with microtransactions or something. "i'm sorry, you must be a ZAUM BUCKZ VIP LEVEL 5 to use the Shivers skill. subscribe now for 20% off, as well as a bonus 100 GOLDEN CANS and EXTRA LARGE BAG if you buy within the next 30 minutes!"
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Oct 3, 2022 20:13
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I mean given the silence it seems to me like the most likely explanation is that it turned out that the three original leads just weren't very good at leading a team when they weren't coming in with 80% of the writing already done from a decade of work. For there to be some nefarious slash-and-burn capitalist fund management going on they would have to represent some kind of major cost to the studio, but these were not big names on superstar salaries.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:22
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Kurvitz published a novel set in the Elysium universe several years before the game existed, and given that the IP was described as "stuck" rather than "lost", it could be that the bulk of the IP is still with Kurvitz since he created it. Unless something was specifically signed granting exclusive ownership to the ZA/UM company, it's not like they just automatically own everything because a game came out under their name. They'd own the parts of it that were created at the company (art, characters and locations specific to the game, etc.) but unless Kurvitz signed the worst deal of all time, I don't see how they could claim ownership over the Elysium world in a way that would prevent Kurvitz from expanding on it such as by writing a sequel to his previous novel. And depending on how the licensing of Kurvitz' work was handled in the first place, who knows what ZA/UM even owns. I could even imagine a situation where there was no formal license agreement in the first place (after all, the guy was making a game with his own pre-existing IP) which might leave ZA/UM open to legal action. But it's all speculation. We don't even know what happened or why. The "what would Disco Elysium look like under capitalism" takes are strange though considering it started out as a capitalist-funded Product and has been a monetisation of art all along, by design and construction. Disco Elysium under capitalism is what we had from day one, and I see no reason to assume that any other artist in the same position would be any more or less likely to produce worthwhile or anti-capitalist art under the same circumstances.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:23
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added microtransactions would make things seem unréal
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Oct 3, 2022 20:23
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https://twitter.com/discoelysiumbot/status/1576534276274733056
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Oct 3, 2022 20:33
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Alchenar posted:I mean given the silence it seems to me like the most likely explanation is that it turned out that the three original leads just weren't very good at leading a team when they weren't coming in with 80% of the writing already done from a decade of work. yeah this is also possible, it certainly seems to be the case that at least one person confirmed to be from ZA/UM as well as a few other industry people are making very passive aggressive jabs at specifically Kurvitz and seem to hold a lot of ire for everyone who was fired. it's possible that this could've stemmed from tension between the leads and the rest of the team either relating to management styles or friction regarding who is getting the most screen time in the public eye (clout) or etc. we'll either find out or we won't ig, RIP to being able to just treat ZA/UM as the golden child studio who does no wrong lol. the flame that burns twice as bright gets cancelled on twitter etc. EDIT: wait, the auteur theory guy didn't even start at ZA/UM until after the game was released? not sure why he has such strong opinions about who did or didn't create Disco Elysium if he didn't even join until like, late 2020 at the earliest. weird. Blankspace fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Oct 3, 2022 |
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Oct 3, 2022 20:39
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Khizan posted:You missed the predecessor to this one. If I wrote a character who's job it was to join left leaning groups and gently caress them up from the inside by being intentionally stupid as poo poo this is the kind of thing I would make him say.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:57
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If there was a plan for a sequel it would have been in Jamrock or maybe on another insulinde. Kurvitz talked about the 'tribunal' being something he wanted to have more of, maybe making choices second by second as a car flips over, or while falling through the air, or while trapped inside a house fire etc. At least that much was in the cards after Disco got released
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Oct 3, 2022 21:00
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Megazver posted:To throw more trash on the auteur theory garbage fire: I think this got lost at the end of the last page, so I'll shamelessly quote myself. Does anyone else remember this?
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Oct 3, 2022 21:04
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Antonymous posted:If there was a plan for a sequel it would have been in Jamrock or maybe on another insulinde. Kurvitz talked about the 'tribunal' being something he wanted to have more of, maybe making choices second by second as a car flips over, or while falling through the air, or while trapped inside a house fire etc. I will hope for the best case where somehow the core group keeps their IP and gets to make their sequel at another studio. second best is we get some weird rights split where ZA/UM owns Harry/Kim/the disco elysium name and Kurvitz keeps the larger world he created in the novel that they can make a spiritual successor with. Good Soldier Svejk fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Oct 3, 2022 |
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Oct 3, 2022 21:14
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Antonymous posted:It's really basic stuff. But the vibe of the "kill the auteur theory" guy is not one of solidarity - he wants to advance his career riding the coattails. He even implies he can do it better this is a huge part of his tone there indeed, which svejk is right to point out that such subpar posting is indeed evidence of them not getting the *it* of Disco in the first place
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Oct 3, 2022 21:26
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https://twitter.com/KatiKnitt/status/1577036432748994560
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Oct 3, 2022 21:45
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Vegetable posted:No one should have to quit their job so their art feels more ~real~ to you. Come the gently caress on. lol at the idea that corporate art can hold value
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Oct 3, 2022 21:51
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UnknownMercenary posted:Disabled the replies God every little thing is so on the nose that I could almost convince myself this was a bit. Your PR statement is to throw the beloved creators under the bus, claim they weren't all that important for the first game or the next one, and then walk away? The only way I can reconcile this is if their goal was to do as bad as a job as possible, as a joke
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Oct 3, 2022 22:10
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Vegetable posted:No one should have to quit their job so their art feels more ~real~ to you. Come the gently caress on. they dont have to quit their job but if they arent compelled to speak out at risk to their job or quit it then it seems less likely that they are capable of the nuance required to produce a piece of art thats thematically resonant with the original game this is a really trivially easy concept to grasp its weird to see how many people didnt understand it
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Oct 3, 2022 22:12
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Verviticus posted:they dont have to quit their job but if they arent compelled to speak out at risk to their job or quit it then it seems less likely that they are capable of the nuance required to produce a piece of art thats thematically resonant with the original game people are just noticing toys left out on the carpet and reprimanding their owners
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Oct 3, 2022 22:14
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Has there been a statement from Kurvitz or Hindpere?
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Oct 3, 2022 22:20
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Verviticus posted:they dont have to quit their job but if they arent compelled to speak out at risk to their job or quit it then it seems less likely that they are capable of the nuance required to produce a piece of art thats thematically resonant with the original game money can be exchanged for goods and services
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Oct 3, 2022 22:23
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SexyBlindfold posted:Has there been a statement from Kurvitz or Hindpere? https://twitter.com/artofrostov/status/1576539500012240897?cxt=HHwWgoDQidGU_-ArAAAA They’ve been quiet about it otherwise, to my knowledge. If there’s going to be legal wrangling about control of the IP, I would expect radio silence to continue indefinitely.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:27
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EDIT: Posted something that's already been posted.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:27
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https://twitter.com/BenSledge/status/1576973631648833537 guys, please stop complaining that people were fired. most people were not fired! quit complaining! it is rude to the people who were not fired when you make them feel bad that you aren't giving them credit when you talk about the firings of their former colleagues! please ignore it!! some real weirdly timed takes coming out feels like some organized PR maneuvering or something. I can't imagine why else we're suddenly having all these people (and now at least one article) pop up to argue against "auteur theory" as a reaction for why it's ok that people lost their jobs, it's so loving bizarre.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:45
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Verviticus posted:they dont have to quit their job but if they arent compelled to speak out at risk to their job or quit it then it seems less likely that they are capable of the nuance required to produce a piece of art thats thematically resonant with the original game
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Oct 3, 2022 22:57
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Blankspace posted:https://twitter.com/BenSledge/status/1576973631648833537 While this is unfortunately anecdotal, I definitely recall people discussing and dismissing the concept of auteur theory before this, both inside and outside the context of video games, and using the exact same arguments: that it's a collaborative effort, that focusing on a few developers does an injustice to the work of everyone else, etc.. You mostly heard it employed against more controversial people like Hideo Kojima. I don't think I would call this an issue with auteur theory, because it's not just Kurvitz or Hindpere or Rostov getting pushed out - it's all three of them, at once, along with half of the original writing team that was around back when the game was in development and the only site interested in it was RPG Codex. Claiming that people concerned about the direction of ZA/UM are falling prey to the false auteur theory is a weak attempt to justify carving out and replacing half of the development team.
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Oct 3, 2022 23:07
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there is a space between auteur theory and "it literally doesn't matter who made something or how it was made" that reasonable people inhabit
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Oct 3, 2022 23:18
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I feel like this news really recontextualizes the lily gilding stuff from the last few patches where you can eg get kim to admit he smoked a weed. Anyway this all loving sucks, but go figure when money gets involved. I'm pretty skeptical of anything in the elysium setting without the core team, but if they wanted to try some new IP as the space game rumors suggest I'm a little more open to giving that a fair chance. Kurvitz/rostov/hindpere et al, I hope have had a smooth landing 
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Oct 3, 2022 23:19
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The main attraction of this game was in its writing and its political convictions. The three main contributors to the writing of said game have been removed from the company for reasons not specified. But, you see, auteur theory isn't a thing, a point which no one claimed. So this event is of no consequence. The next game will be as good if better and have the same collectivist political message. You can trust me on this, my credentials speak for themself. I almost completed a phd from a prestigious French film academy. So I'm basically going to write something far better.
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Oct 3, 2022 23:22
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dead gay comedy forums posted:this is a huge part of his tone there indeed, which svejk is right to point out that such subpar posting is indeed evidence of them not getting the *it* of Disco in the first place that dude's tone was perfectly summed up in his "i have a doctorate therefore i cannot be incorrect" tweet
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Oct 3, 2022 23:22
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Sierra Madre posted:I don't think I would call this an issue with auteur theory, because it's not just Kurvitz or Hindpere or Rostov getting pushed out - it's all three of them, at once, along with half of the original writing team that was around back when the game was in development and the only site interested in it was RPG Codex. Claiming that people concerned about the direction of ZA/UM are falling prey to the false auteur theory is a weak attempt to justify carving out and replacing half of the development team. i agree, that's I guess what I was poorly trying to communicate lol. I'm aware that discourse around this subject already existed, but it's badly placed here and seems to be, like you said, a really bad way to "refocus" the discussion around these firings entirely. it seems very bad faith, especially considering the language surrounding it, like saying they "left" the company and not that they were "fired" or "involuntarily left" etc. very PR talk-y. another example is this quote: https://twitter.com/axel_hexed/status/1576893198420840450 where he tries to disregard the work that was done by those who were fired by saying that other writers wrote good things, or implying that they should not receive credit for the "soul" of the game. it seems weird to make this statement at a time when the context isn't "who is the best writer" but "hey, several leads from the original team were shitcanned in a sketchy way, what gives?" like it makes it better that they were shitcanned if someone else wrote a part I liked? what sort of take is this? I don't give a gently caress who wrote my FAVE SCENES, that doesn't justify anything.
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Oct 3, 2022 23:31
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idk why anyone is talking about auteur theory or w/e, it was that group of friends' fictional setting thath they were making for 20 years and it got yoinked, that's lovely however you look at it
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Oct 3, 2022 23:32
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Assuming whatever ZA/UM is working on is a direct sequel / has the same setting, it might not.
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Oct 3, 2022 23:45
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The current status of the IP question hasn't been clarified, but it could very well end up with Za/um being entitled to the name Disco Elysium itself and little more. Anyway, https://twitter.com/TravelSizeTrish/status/1576648773648154624 This makes the third random dev with a Blizzard background I've seen tut-tutting at all rabid fans with their ~auteur theory~. I looked it up and the accussations are bunk, by the way. "Barely brandished any notable work" is outright litigable. SexyBlindfold fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 00:01
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getting forced out of your company and IP and then pilloried by the most obnoxious people alive in defense of billionaire investors wouldn't call that a great week
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Oct 4, 2022 00:07
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"Do your own research! It's literally on reddit!" lmao
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Oct 4, 2022 00:07
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SexyBlindfold posted:The current status of the IP question hasn't been clarified, but it could very well end up with Za/um being entitled to the name Disco Elysium itself and little more. wait are they really trying to use the Red Scare defense as to why we should be glad people got fired from their job wow, really bringing back the classics now, can't wait to see this one rolled out further
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Oct 4, 2022 00:10
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And then they restricted replies to the tweet right after the first person pointed out how incredibly wrong they were. Jesus loving christ, these people.
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Oct 4, 2022 00:14
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