Disco Elysium: You Must Compress Your Shit Before Venturing Forth

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Disco Elysium: You Must Compress Your Shit Before Venturing Forth

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worm girl: Feb 12, 2022; Can you hear it too?

Oxxidation posted:

getting forced out of your company and IP and then pilloried by the most obnoxious people alive in defense of billionaire investors

wouldn't call that a great week

On the other hand, few artists get to have their theses proven so quickly after releasing their magnum opus.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 05:25

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# ? May 30, 2024 23:10

ThePariah: Feb 10, 2014

So from what I understand, the situation is this: the original people behind Disco Elysium got ousted by investors, replaced by scabs, and now the friends of the latter are going "gently caress auteur theory, solidarity with the scabs"?

# ? Oct 4, 2022 08:06

Blankspace: Dec 13, 2006

ThePariah posted:

So from what I understand, the situation is this: the original people behind Disco Elysium got ousted by investors, replaced by scabs, and now the friends of the latter are going "gently caress auteur theory, solidarity with the scabs"?

seems like it, unless somebody drops something that isn't just a bunch of unprovable vague allegations such as "they didn't work hard" or "they were rude" sourced via Twitter telephone gossip games being relayed back to us through the friends of a tiny handful of random people at ZA/UM. there's not enough information to know if we can take any of them seriously or if their judgment is compromised due to some sort of personal beef their friend(s) have with any of the three who were fired. it's also hard to say how much of what is being said is just a reaction to all the negativity they're getting from the community, and they're just lashing out in the only way they can that doesn't get them in trouble for leaking confidential info or w/e. it definitely seems that some of them super dislike at least Kurvitz, since they've made some extremely catty "coded" references to him.

personal dislike of somebody isn't a justification for mass firing, and it's extremely unlikely that three founders of the company all simultaneously happen to get fired for not writing good enough or doing enough art or whatever. and what are the chances ZA/UM happens to fire three "bad managers" at the same time for performance issues? seems more likely that it was something they were aligned on that the controlling powers took seriously enough to fire them for, but not bad in a spicy kind of gossip way that anybody feels tempted to leak any more "coded hints" about, outside of general attacks on their character.

the most likely thing IMO that would warrant a group termination and would be taken seriously enough not to leak right away would be if all three of them tried to take a hardline stance against something that was seen as extremely profitable, and they decided firing them was better than losing out on the money. could either be the TV show or the microtransaction thing, but that's only speculation from the extremely limited info we have. I could see newer employees who aren't as ideologically driven getting upset at them as well if they felt it was potential bonuses coming out of their future pockets or something.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 08:36

Fair Bear Maiden: Jun 17, 2013

not a bot posted:

Calling the three kicked out people pro-Russian and pro-Staliin sure is a thing.

I wanna say I *very vaguely* remember the ZA/UM office having a photo or portrait of Stalin at one point, which I always assumed was ironic anyway? That's the only thing I got for that.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 09:31

No Dignity: Oct 15, 2007

They're marxist-leninists, I would be shocked if they didn't have a somewhat warm view on Stalin

# ? Oct 4, 2022 09:59

Fair Bear Maiden: Jun 17, 2013

Eh, I mean, they're also Estonian and historically formerly Soviet people who aren't from Russia tend to not romanticize that period of history, regardless of their political leanings*.

* Unfortunately, a lot of that justified lack of taste for the Soviet boot, leads to them jumping into the arms of reactionary politics, but that's a story for another day, and probably for people who have studied the history and culture of the region, which I honestly haven't.

Regardless, it's a bit weird to point that out now as if that was the reason they might have been fired or pushed out from the company, especially when it's likely other people who are Stalinists and commies in general joined the company precisely because it advertised itself as such.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 10:24

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010; Can't post for 31 minutes!

A group of burnout failed artists, Marxists all of them, finally get a taste of mainstream success, only for Capital to take their creation from them. The libs fall in line behind the suits once they're given the fig leaf PR speak about toxic behavior and bad thought. How is this not already a subplot from the world of Disco Elysium itself?

# ? Oct 4, 2022 10:41

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

I assume that's what would've happened to Fortress Occident if they had succeeded.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 11:29

Fruits of the sea: Dec 1, 2010

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter :v:

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Oct 4, 2022

# ? Oct 4, 2022 11:33

studio mujahideen: May 3, 2005

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

bro they shouted out marx and engels when getting an award

also the only people can make funny jokes about communists are communists

# ? Oct 4, 2022 11:44

oscarthewilde: May 16, 2012; I would often go there
To the tiny church there

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

# ? Oct 4, 2022 11:47

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

dead gay comedy forums posted:

I will repeat whenever needed: it takes true-hearted communist leaning - actually lets go with straight up belief here - to do such a savage take on its failure like this game did. Outside literature, very few pieces of media in general have tried to artistically cope with the collapse of the Revolution, and Disco absolutely delivers on it.

It is everywhere and nowhere: a major reason of the way things are as they are now in Revachol is because communism happened, but absent; your own (harry's) contemplation of the matter leads to a very precise comment that 0.000% of the communism has been built. Yet, love did him in, but communism pulled the trigger.

Kurvitz and the other writers (I understand that one or two of them are Russian, even) seem to share a certain sensibility of the matter that intellectuals like Mark Fisher have described as "hauntological", the absence of something that is necessary to our present. A "nothing" that demands resolution in our collective understanding of the world. The original Communist Manifesto is all about that poo poo: "A spectre haunts Europe". What haunts Revachol and in many similar ways our own world, is the absence of the future promised. A new order of things happened, then it was crushed, at the cost of creating a hole in history. A flaw.

To mull over this flaw, to ponder about what it really means, it is really complex poo poo. Zizek, among others, have said that the actual philosophical and psychological cost of the failure of the Soviet Union has not been fully assessed and understood because of the sheer, titanic tragedy of it all: for a few years, the dream society that a lot of people envisioned and envision now was a concrete, real, actual in-the-fullest-sense-of-the word thing.

If one subscribes to the hauntological point-of-view, this was such a massively momentous occasion that essentially reshaped the course of history forever. From this moment onward, the new society, the revolutionary society, had to be. The failings of its government, the fact that it not lead the West to go along with it, the absence of its promise and its final downfall created much of the cultural malaises we suffer now, for if we were haunted before to bring it to existence, now we are haunted for its absence: things are not in the order that they are supposed to.

Disco tackles some of that poo poo exemplarly, mostly by giving you that feel, that yearning conveyed by the soundtrack and in some particular dialogues and scenes. Communism has failed, surely. For that, this is a weary world. However, playing it again, after you got to know the scars and has the hang of the place, a simple "Revachol forever" gains a powerful, foreboding feel. This is an invocation. The city has been conquered, but what it represents has not; its people have been put to suffer tremendous indignity, but they are the same that not too long ago, have put the most profound fear in the powerful forces of the world. Revachol forever means that they will become what they must be, again, for history demands it.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:02

oscarthewilde: May 16, 2012; I would often go there
To the tiny church there

No one but an absolutely committed communist could write such a scathing critique of communism as the Mazovian Socio-Economics thought. The setting, the characters, everything, in DE is infused with the understanding that Capital is everywhere and destroys everything and can commodity even the most well-intentioned and meaningful emancipatory movement or critique. Following the communist path in DE requires internalising the idea that realising any kind of communist system is impossible and that holding any hope for a better future is a futile endeavour. And yet, hope must be cherished, and a better must be imagined. This fundamental contradiction that so many idealists might not rationally know, but still understand, and the general depiction of communists as lonely, hopeless, cynics could never be written by a social-democrat, liberal or conservative. No one who isn't a communist who could never reconcile the importance of the struggle with the destructive effects on the individual. Understanding that it's easier to imagine the world, than it is to imagine the end of capitalism will destroy any faith you still have in 'the system' and will destroy any hope you still have for the future, yet it is better than any alternative. ZA/UM understood that, before capital destroyed them too.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:03

oscarthewilde: May 16, 2012; I would often go there
To the tiny church there

in conclusion:

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:04

Fruits of the sea: Dec 1, 2010

What I'm getting from all this is that ZA/UM are a bunch of jaded burnouts :smith:

studio mujahideen posted:

bro they shouted out marx and engels when getting an award

This is really funny tho

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Oct 4, 2022

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:15

studio mujahideen: May 3, 2005

weird i wonder why

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:20

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

You have failed to get disco elysium

I'm sorry

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:30

Nordick: Sep 3, 2011; Yes.

Pattonesque posted:

Kurvitz join BioWare and write the greatest Mass Effect ever

Actually the three need to join Obsidian and wrangle them into making Pillars of Eternity 3 and then write most of it

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:32

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

The current PoE title, Avowed, seems to have been losing narrative leads as well. (On better terms it seems, thankfully, but it's still kinda weird.)

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:38

Prokhor Zakharov: Dec 31, 2008; This is me as I make another great post

Good luck with your depression!

I look forward to the ousted writers next game, set in the exact same world but titled "Folk Arcadia"

# ? Oct 4, 2022 12:40

Tagaziel: Aug 28, 2022; Ce n'est pas un chat.

oscarthewilde posted:

No one but an absolutely committed communist could write such a scathing critique of communism as the Mazovian Socio-Economics thought. The setting, the characters, everything, in DE is infused with the understanding that Capital is everywhere and destroys everything and can commodity even the most well-intentioned and meaningful emancipatory movement or critique. Following the communist path in DE requires internalising the idea that realising any kind of communist system is impossible and that holding any hope for a better future is a futile endeavour. And yet, hope must be cherished, and a better must be imagined. This fundamental contradiction that so many idealists might not rationally know, but still understand, and the general depiction of communists as lonely, hopeless, cynics could never be written by a social-democrat, liberal or conservative. No one who isn't a communist who could never reconcile the importance of the struggle with the destructive effects on the individual. Understanding that it's easier to imagine the world, than it is to imagine the end of capitalism will destroy any faith you still have in 'the system' and will destroy any hope you still have for the future, yet it is better than any alternative. ZA/UM understood that, before capital destroyed them too.

This is poetry.

And this is a notice that I'm acquiring the contents of this post for redistribution, comrade.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 13:33

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Mantis42 posted:

A group of burnout failed artists, Marxists all of them, finally get a taste of mainstream success, only for Capital to take their creation from them. The libs fall in line behind the suits once they're given the fig leaf PR speak about toxic behavior and bad thought. How is this not already a subplot from the world of Disco Elysium itself?

The real fun part is the libs posting in this thread.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 13:36

oscarthewilde: May 16, 2012; I would often go there
To the tiny church there

Orange Devil posted:

The real fun part is the libs posting in this thread.

the real real fun part is the libs on twitter. their takes are so mind-blowingly bad you really start to doubt the (critical) reading skills of the general internet user

# ? Oct 4, 2022 13:39

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

I just realized:

They should have accepted the Truce with the Furries when they had the chance.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 13:55

Tungsten: Aug 10, 2004; Your Working Boy

looking forward to evaluating jabroni za/um's creative output

# ? Oct 4, 2022 13:56

uber_stoat: Jan 21, 2001; Pillbug

quote:

It was crisis after crisis, but - in the end - I'm not surprised we were able to handle them. Production on Disco Elysium began in 2000, not in 2014. For 14 years we built the world and the organization. Even (and especially) under capitalism the most precious resource is access to talent. Talent is attracted by other talent - and is kept together by principles. You collect talent for it to collect talent. The critical mass appears to be around 4-10. Then it's about keeping it together before everyone self-destructs, while agents of competing talent-drives (private enterprise and Universities, mostly) try to steal them away from you with lures of income and social prestige - things you don't have. Against public and private power, the lonely utopian offshoot is always at a disadvantage. It takes a real idea to counter-pull against the dual abyss. (It doesn't hurt to be corrupt either - go for it! Be as corrupt as possible. Those who want you to remain lily- white have no ideas and no principles to compromise for.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkF50iY2nDs

# ? Oct 4, 2022 14:23

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.

https://twitter.com/mrsambarlow/status/1576618736601026561?t=zoTXKru6bt835UrTjG9Nng&s=19

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:03

Au Revoir Shosanna: Feb 17, 2011; i support this government and/or service

je vais tuer

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:12

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

The Saddest Rhino posted:

https://twitter.com/mrsambarlow/status/1576618736601026561?t=zoTXKru6bt835UrTjG9Nng&s=19

what did this person even like about it if not the main writing focus and the art. DE's gameplay isn't exactly gripping

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:17

dervival: Apr 23, 2014

they must've thought it was a dance game around the jamrock shuffle

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:19

the escape goat: Apr 16, 2008

The Saddest Rhino posted:

https://twitter.com/mrsambarlow/status/1576618736601026561?t=zoTXKru6bt835UrTjG9Nng&s=19

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:41

ACES CURE PLANES: Oct 21, 2010

The Saddest Rhino posted:

https://twitter.com/cheirasse/status/1576964845643042816

jesus

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:43

Updog Scully: Apr 20, 2021; This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.

https://twitter.com/Spice8Rack/status/1577239770941378560

# ? Oct 4, 2022 15:56

World War Mammories: Aug 25, 2006

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

moralist

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:02

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

E: I think folks have a tendency to conflate fascism, socialism, EU style social-conservatism and old-school communism. It's kinda hard to figure out what people are talking about when those words mean totally different things to different people. And the definitions change depending on if you're talking to somebody in North America, Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And South America for that matter

This is an official request to the mods for this video to be placed in the op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1gKGq44NxQ

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:04

Updog Scully: Apr 20, 2021; This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.

Fruits of the sea posted:

DE as a whole has a lot to say about capitalism but it also lampoons communism and fascism if you take those paths. I think it's kind of a stretch to claim that the team were dyed in the wool marxists. Definitely leftists of some sort though.

Capitalism and fascism were certainly critiqued massively in Disco Elysium, but there is an important distinction between lampooning "communism" and "communists". DE lampooned communists.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:06

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

I enjoyed Disco Elysium. I'm fine with leaving it at that.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:16

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Well I'm not fine! I'm loving pissed off! We could have had a world with slightly more wonder and craft in it, and instead we get a world with slightly more revenue streams. God drat.

Go pick one of your favorite pieces of art and imagine the world without it. That's the world we get. We get the world without the next thing they would've made together.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:24

Fruits of the sea: Dec 1, 2010

Updog Scully posted:

Capitalism and fascism were certainly critiqued massively in Disco Elysium, but there is an important distinction between lampooning "communism" and "communists". DE lampooned communists.

Huh, yeah that's a lot more precise.

I'm leery about assigning authorial intent, especially not being super familiar with Zaum's background in Estonia but it's also not a hill I care to die on.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:30

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# ? May 30, 2024 23:10

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Fruits of the sea posted:

Huh, yeah that's a lot more precise.

I'm leery about assigning authorial intent, especially not being super familiar with Zaum's background in Estonia but it's also not a hill I care to die on.

What do you think them thanking Marx and Engels on stage implies about their authorial intent? I don't think we have to be TOO leery.

# ? Oct 4, 2022 16:34

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