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KitConstantine posted:Paging Mr.Nice to the thread for a lawyer-pinion if possible lol Lawyers generally get very wide latitude in closing arguments. The jury is specifically instructed, and when I give a closing I repeatedly remind them, that arguments of counsel are not evidence. The purpose of closing is to argue reasonable inferences from the evidence, and convince the jury that your proposed reasonable inference is the most reasonable. An example may help. Suppose in a bank robbery case there is evidence that the suspect wore a green and black mask to rob the bank, and the defendant was caught wearing a green and black mask. A prosecutor may argue that a reasonable inference from those two bits of evidence is that the defendant robbed the bank. The masks match. A defense attorney may argue that a reasonable inference from his client wearing a mask is that there's a pandemic going on and everyone wears masks, and for all we know those green and black ones are for sale 10/$10 at the local Piggly Wiggly. In neither of those arguments are the lawyers, strictly speaking, telling the truth or not telling the truth. They're arguing. Closing arguments are about what the evidence was and what conclusions the jury can draw. As long as the arguments of counsel generally (and loosely) stay within what the evidence was, and generally (loosely) stay within the bounds of realistic inferences, then the attorneys can go ham. Closing arguments are, quite frankly, a lot of fun sometimes. As the judge pointed out, personal digs at the other attorney are frowned upon. But they happen all the time. Lawyers at this level need to have their big boy pants on. The judge needs to do what she can to keep it down but an old fart lawyer like Pattis doesn't give a gently caress about things like objections. He's walked through every objection. He built in pauses in his arguments expecting the other party to object. As long as he blurts out his point before the objection then it's within the rules of the game. This happens all the time. Did he do anything particularly sanctionable? I would guess not, at least not looking at the closing argument in a vacuum. Maybe in the context of the rest of the case, where the judge was constantly telling him to knock it off with the personal attacks, maybe he'll get sanctioned. But I've seen (and been targeted with) much more personal attacks than what Pattis just did. This shitpost brought to you by a lawyer currently doing this job by being stuck in an endless zoom meeting.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:38
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I imagine the judge would be more willing to accept your awful client didn't reflect upon you if your conduct as an attorney was impeccable.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:39
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KitConstantine posted:Paging Mr.Nice to the thread for a lawyer-pinion if possible lol I mean, Pattis is doing what he can with what he can. He knows there is really no defense for Jones’ actions, and as much as possible wants to poison the jury to acquit his client. His actions are definitely not standard because you rarely have sustained objections during opening and closing let alone a judge having to stop you mid presentation to admonish you. Pattis is really in a tough position, but I have zero sympathy for him. He’s getting paid a lot of loving money to be in that position, and his suffering is 100% his own fault. gently caress em.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:40
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Jedi425 posted:Yeah, they knew who they were taking on. No judge is every letting a lawyer withdraw mid-trial. Typically motions to withdraw coincide with a replacement of counsel. Judges will liberally grant that so long as you’re far enough away from trial.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:41
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ElegantFugue posted:I don't have the links handy but people earlier in the thread had videos and stuff to confirm that Pattis is just a lovely human being even ignoring any aspect of his lawyer work, so feel free to be completely unfair to him, he worked hard to deserve it I too would like a lawyer type goon answer for this
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Oct 6, 2022 18:41
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funeral home DJ posted:Serious question for those familiar with the court system: if you’re a lawyer and you’ve been working with a client who seems reasonable, but in the court room suddenly becomes a meth-fueled chimpanzee with vise-grips clamped on to its balls, what can you do to not end up with the judge ripping you to shreds? Can you approach the bench and tell the judge that your client has lost their mind and that you have no ability to control it? From my recollection: The lawyer quits and tell the judge. Which delays the court proceedings annoying everybody. Then the same thing happens again. And again. And again. With progressively crazier lawyers each time. And that is the story of how Pattis got hired.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:42
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Jedi425 posted:Yeah, they knew who they were taking on. It might be worth noting that Pattis did file a motion to withdraw between the Texas verdict and the start of the CT trial (IIRC). It was not granted because the Jones team has switched lawyers a million times already and it was clearly dilatory.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:42
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Tunicate posted:I imagine the judge would be more willing to accept your awful client didn't reflect upon you if your conduct as an attorney was impeccable. Judges generally don’t hold lovely clients against lawyers so long as the lawyers themselves are not behaving in a lovely fashion. I don’t know if Judge Bellis will personally sanction him or just hand it off to the state bar disciplinary committee, but Norm is getting some post-trial slap on the wrist one way or another. He’s also retirement age and probably doesn’t give a gently caress if his ticket gets punched or not.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:43
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To clarify, I meant that *Mr. Nice* was off doing his job, not Norm, and was trying to make a joke because we can't all spend the whole day watching some one else's lawsuit I'm sure Norm considered what he did his job
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Oct 6, 2022 18:43
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Outrail posted:I too would like a lawyer type goon answer for this An unreasonable verdict will be reduced by the judge as a matter of law. If she doesn’t, an appellate court will as well. There are various guidelines in each state, and I cannot at all speak to CT’s. A billion in damages is probably going to be reduced. A hundred million in damages will probably stand. Either way, the verdict here is just heading to the bankruptcy court in the SD TX as the value of each plaintiff’s loss, and they’ll get paid out based upon whatever restructuring plan the court approves.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:51
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KitConstantine posted:To clarify, I meant that *Mr. Nice* was off doing his job, not Norm, and was trying to make a joke because we can't all spend the whole day watching some one else's lawsuit I’m actually holding my office hours for my business stats class at the moment so no big deal! I did miss plaintiff’s closing, though.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:51
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LifeSunDeath posted:. That doesnt look like alex, alex doesn’t ever look that happy and peaceful. Maybe that could be a straight-haired George Wendt? 
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Oct 6, 2022 18:52
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Seems like it's back up.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:04
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Ahahahaha thank god Koskof is having fun.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:06
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Plaintiffs’ rebuttal going.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:06
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Troubadour posted:It might be worth noting that Pattis did file a motion to withdraw between the Texas verdict and the start of the CT trial (IIRC). It was not granted because the Jones team has switched lawyers a million times already and it was clearly dilatory. Haha, that's right, I totally forgot about that. I wonder how he took it?
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Oct 6, 2022 19:07
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Norm made one mistake - he miscalculated how much I know about Dennis the Menace.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:13
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"If he's a prophet he's a false prophet, and there are some biblical figures we could compare him to, but we don't need to go there." Ha, zing.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:14
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"I know you guys got this...but I got 30 minutes left." Worth it.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:16
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So another 25 minutes of Koskoff. Probably a lot of jury instructions before they go to their room. A little time for them to settle in and select one of them to be the jury foreperson. Fewer jurors than normal will probably help speed things up but far more plaintiffs. I'm hoping they are locked in by end of day tomorrow.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:20
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Have they said how much money the plaintiffs should get yet?
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Oct 6, 2022 19:21
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Oct 6, 2022 19:23
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Koskoff: I was a mess when I walked in here He seems to have settled in some over the course of the last few weeks. I haven't watched much since Jones was on the stand.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:23
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Openly making GBS threads on Pattis’ defense. Hell yeah.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:24
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Charles Manson time
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Oct 6, 2022 19:27
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Sucks that I’m listening to Koskof and hearing in real time Alex screaming “THEY SAID I DID A GENOCIDE THEY SAID I KILLED PEOPLE”
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Oct 6, 2022 19:28
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LOL calling jones and his ilk a terrorist cell of crackpots.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:29
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Please dear god tell me he's going to say Jones is like Kingpin, except inept and insane.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:30
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this guy is really bad at getting a slam dunk concept across, he's rambling.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:35
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nothing compared to the trash fire earlier but i imagine anyone would have some difficulty speaking well in a case of this caliber
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Oct 6, 2022 19:36
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I dunno, I'm liking his emotion, the quivering voice. He seems to be getting the family's pain across, even if he does ramble on occasion.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:40
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WHERE IS HE! Now thats how you twist the knife.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:41
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he's just gonna appeal this right?
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Oct 6, 2022 19:44
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Yeah, this has to be the single best closing argument I've heard in years. Pathos and logos working together in beautiful harmony there. And that was the way to talk. loving angry, but holding back. I couldn't be more proud of the plaintiffs if they tried. edit: oh poo poo he's actually shaking a bit. This really got to him. Faust IX fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 19:45
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Baron von Eevl posted:It's just impulse control issues, everything he does. Is just unmanaged ADD and he self medicates with stimulants made from beetroot and bill testicle extract. He's laundering right wing talking points through conspiracy theories. That's it.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:47
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LifeSunDeath posted:he's just gonna appeal this right? Hard to appeal a default. They'd have to show an error of law and when the error is that you're a dumbass, appeals courts aren't going to give you another shot.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:49
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LifeSunDeath posted:he's just gonna appeal this right? He's going to dine on this for at least the next year or two, crying constantly how the Deep State Soros reverse vampire reptilian mole people got to him. And he needs donations or brain juices bought to counter them. I would be surprised if there wasn't a CHUD fund raiser set up minutes after judgement.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:52
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Hell yeah. Driving home the point he’s already calling the jury actors, the judge is a cabal employee, etc. Is he allowed to say something along the lines of ‘what would happen if Alex sets his spotlight on you, the jurors?’ or is that implying a threat to a jury? I would imagine that’s against court rules, but also I would lose my mind if Jones’ listeners were stalking me.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:54
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Random Stranger posted:Hard to appeal a default. They'd have to show an error of law and when the error is that you're a dumbass, appeals courts aren't going to give you another shot. Anyone know the CT rule for how much of the judgment Alex would have to post as bond in order to appeal?
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Oct 6, 2022 19:54
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red19fire posted:Hell yeah. Driving home the point he’s already calling the jury actors, the judge is a cabal employee, etc. I wouldn't put it past the fucker to dox the jurors. "Oh look someone leaked their names and addresses, lets look through their links to the Clinton Jade Helm Fema Death Gay Frog Camps!"
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Oct 6, 2022 19:58
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