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On Terra Firma posted:The companies making disposables, which is pretty much all kids are using, aren't "mom and pop" shops. They're fly by night manufacturers operating out of southern china that just rebrand whenever they need to slip under the radar. They're very very different from most shops that sell liquid by the bottle for refillable tank based systems. It's very easy to lump them together but the set ups and the people who use them are vastly different. You, uh, are doing the exact thing I just described- using the supposedly sympathetic retail scale industry to undermine the concept of regulation. Setting aside the unsupported claim about the sourcing of disposable vapes, I am pretty confident that the e-cigarette industry isn't just having compliance issues with foreign importers. Those are all domestic presence companies, and they're all benefitting from rhetoric that throws chaff about each others' scale of activity.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 02:24 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:13 |
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Zero_Grade posted:Sasse has no connection to UF or Florida in general as far as I can see, so maybe he just wants to live in Gainesville? It's not that bad a town, although presumably a lot less fun if you're not a student. As a UF grad, I've been equal parts confused and humored by the whole thing. Just glad I don't live in Florida anymore either way.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 02:25 |
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The pet theory here in Omaha is that Governor Pete Ricketts used his nepotism money to buy Sasse the job at U of F, and because his successor is also bought and paid for, Ricketts himself can be appointed to the Senate by the next guy (who will almost certainly win in November). He ran for Senate and lost before trying for Governor, has since bought whatever legacy he wanted, and will now get to buy the elected position he previously could not. And because lol red state, once he's in he'll probably never be voted out. Sasse is a legendarily useless person and speaking as someone in academia I strongly doubt he was the leading finalist to be a University President *anywhere*.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 02:38 |
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After the news already broke, I got this email as an alumnus:quote:Dear UF community, Etc etc Bolding mine, and I laughed at that part.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 03:03 |
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Discendo Vox posted:You, uh, are doing the exact thing I just described- using the supposedly sympathetic retail scale industry to undermine the concept of regulation. Setting aside the unsupported claim about the sourcing of disposable vapes, I am pretty confident that the e-cigarette industry isn't just having compliance issues with foreign importers. Those are all domestic presence companies, and they're all benefitting from rhetoric that throws chaff about each others' scale of activity. I don't know why you need to be condescending about any of this or attributing some weird motive to what I'm saying. I'm making the point that there are a lot of complicated elements to this "industry" that aren't even remotely homogenous aside from almost all of the products containing some form of nicotine. Altria isn't the same as Candy King. You keep bunching them up like they are and it's just not a helpful way of understanding that world and it's the trap proponents of regulation and prohibition keep falling into. The vast majority of MDO's issued by the FDA were for open systems ie not disposable or pod based. Those are not what youth are using, but that's where the FDA put most of it's resources. When it came to the big players like Juul, they fumbled and hosed it all up because they didn't even bother to review any of the scientific data Juul supplied with the application. Whether the science substantiated the claim that their products were "for the good of public health" doesn't even matter at that point because it tied the FDA's hands. All the while Puff and these other weird companies that appeared overnight started being used by teens. Now it's almost entirely what they use. My point is whatever nefarious motives the "industry" may have the FDA have taken a bunch of counterproductive performative half measures that created a hole for a new subset of product it's incapable of regulating, got itself tied up in a bunch of lawsuits over shoddy MDO's, and shut down a lot of companies that were producing products for open systems that kids weren't even using to any substantial degree in the first place. All of this is due to the FDA and organizations that want everything off the shelves not even attempting to understand the industry it's trying to regulate. Whether you fundamentally disagree with me about the role of this stuff or not all of this is a problem the FDA isn't equipped to solve at the moment.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 04:07 |
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On Terra Firma posted:I don't know why you need to be condescending about any of this or attributing some weird motive to what I'm saying. I'm making the point that there are a lot of complicated elements to this "industry" that aren't even remotely homogenous aside from almost all of the products containing some form of nicotine. Altria isn't the same as Candy King. You keep bunching them up like they are and it's just not a helpful way of understanding that world and it's the trap proponents of regulation and prohibition keep falling into. You just did it again, shifting the blame within industry, and from there to the regulator, to avoid the information already addressing your previous claims. An additional feature of all the domestic sellers I linked past the warning letters? They're all selling disposable vapes. That the industry has made itself as difficult to regulate as possible does not somehow absolve it of its harms.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 04:15 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:American teens continue to love vaping tobacco products and (inexplicably) chewing tobacco. its a lot easier to chew tobacco without your parents knowing than to smoke, because smoking is stinky also chewing tobacco doesn't mean dip anymore. there's snus, which is just tobacco in a little cotton pouch thus more discreet and easier to dispose of. you still have to spit a lot but just dont let folks catch you spitting On Terra Firma posted:All the while Puff and these other weird companies that appeared overnight started being used by teens. Now it's almost entirely what they use. there is no such thing as an ethical, healthy vape - all of them are being grabbed onto desperately by big tobacco to rebuild addiction rates and thus market share in the face of the devastatingly effective anti-smoking public health campaign. vapes are just diet cigarettes and they're a miraculous lifeline for companies that poison people for profit
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 04:17 |
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Discendo Vox posted:You just did it again, shifting the blame within industry, and from there to the regulator, to avoid the information already addressing your previous claims. An additional feature of all the domestic sellers I linked past the warning letters? They're all selling disposable vapes. That the industry has made itself as difficult to regulate as possible does not somehow absolve it of its harms. I'm not assigning "blame" to anyone I'm pointing out the reality of the situation and the gaps in your knowledge of the industry. If you don't want to accept it that's fine. I'm not attacking you. I was just providing a different perspective. quote:there is no such thing as an ethical, healthy vape - all of them are being grabbed onto desperately by big tobacco to rebuild addiction rates and thus market share in the face of the devastatingly effective anti-smoking public health campaign. vapes are just diet cigarettes and they're a miraculous lifeline for companies that poison people for profit Disposables aren't something big tobacco (Altria/PMI, BAT, etc) has gotten involved in. I think I'll just bow out of this though. The rhetoric in here about seems beyond heated and I don't see it being productive for anyone involved. On Terra Firma fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 7, 2022 |
# ? Oct 7, 2022 04:32 |
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i dont really think its heated but i appreciate if you don't want to continue your stubborn defense of the tobacco industry itt
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 04:39 |
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On Terra Firma posted:I'm not assigning "blame" to anyone I'm pointing out the reality of the situation and the gaps in your knowledge of the industry. If you don't want to accept it that's fine. I'm not attacking you. I was just providing a different perspective. British American Tobacco owns Vuse and Vuse has a line of disposables - Vuse Go. Altria invested 13 billion in Juul and just ended its no-compete clause so they can start selling their own e-cigs which there's no reason to think won't include disposables.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 08:59 |
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Zachack posted:What does this mean? Anecdotally, dipping was very popular among athletes in my high school because it gave them a nicotine buzz without diminishing their lung capacity the way smoking would.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 12:03 |
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Chewing tobacco in the shower rules, just spit dwon the drainDiscendo Vox posted:You just did it again, shifting the blame within industry, and from there to the regulator, to avoid the information already addressing your previous claims. An additional feature of all the domestic sellers I linked past the warning letters? They're all selling disposable vapes. That the industry has made itself as difficult to regulate as possible does not somehow absolve it of its harms. yes, it's fair to blame the regulators for failing to regulate tobacco produts. It's not the role of the tobacco industry to self-regulate
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 12:04 |
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TGLT posted:British American Tobacco owns Vuse and Vuse has a line of disposables - Vuse Go. Altria invested 13 billion in Juul and just ended its no-compete clause so they can start selling their own e-cigs which there's no reason to think won't include disposables. Interesting. I wasn't aware Vuse was doing anything outside of the products that, ironically, the FDA already had already approved. Altria probably will go that route especially since they just hired the science chief responsible for PMTA reviews at the FDA so I figured it was inevitable. Still it wasn't something they pioneered or got ahead of.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 12:43 |
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Anecdotally, dipping was very popular among athletes in my high school because it gave them a nicotine buzz without diminishing their lung capacity the way smoking would. Same here, also was just generally a thing as I grew up in a small backwoods town full of rednecks. A bunch of them used to chew during study hall in the library, and once done spit the wad into whatever book they were pretending to read. I found a particularly nasty example in the middle of the third Space Odyssey novel one time.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 14:32 |
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I doubt dipping/chewing tobacco was big where I grew up but nonetheless our health classes still showed photos of people's mouths, jaws, etc. destroyed by mouth cancer. Just to drive the point home that it wasn't safe. Also I remember them saying fiberglass or something similar was added to cut up the skin inside your mouth so the nicotine is absorbed faster but in retrospect that sounds like a "razorblades in your candy" level of scaremongering.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 14:52 |
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Angry_Ed posted:I doubt dipping/chewing tobacco was big where I grew up but nonetheless our health classes still showed photos of people's mouths, jaws, etc. destroyed by mouth cancer. Just to drive the point home that it wasn't safe. I remember hearing the fiberglass thing about menthol cigarettes too
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 14:59 |
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Angry_Ed posted:I doubt dipping/chewing tobacco was big where I grew up but nonetheless our health classes still showed photos of people's mouths, jaws, etc. destroyed by mouth cancer. Just to drive the point home that it wasn't safe. it would be a stupid thing to do because it'd open them up to more damaging products liability lawsuits (juries are sort of less sympathetic to tobacco users figuring it's their own drat fault) but stupid thing to do doesn't mean it wouldn't be done. one tobacco company tested a cool new material for its filters for a few years: asbestos. as you might imagine there have been...a lot...of lawsuits over those cigarettes.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 15:02 |
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I remember hearing the fiberglass thing about menthol cigarettes too The fiberglass thing is an urban myth. They do put additives into chewing tobacco to make it more abrasive for "texture" that can cut up your mouth if you have sensitive gums. They also can get tiny salt crystals growing on them from the preservatives used. The urban legend comes from seeing the tiny salt crystals + knowing the companies put in additives to make it more abrasive and people saying that the salt crystals were fiberglass. Also, some chewing tobacco formulas and cigarette filters do contain chemicals that are components to fiberglass, but in tiny quantities and not actually fiberglass. In the same way that every apple technically contains cyanide.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 15:06 |
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there were asbestos filter cigarettes, so even if the fiberglass poo poo managed to be true it's gonna be far from the most insane poo poo we did with nicotene
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 17:53 |
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Uvalde has suspended their entire force following the city's investigation into their response to the school shooting. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1578429626606620674 quote:The Uvalde, Texas, school district -- still facing withering criticism over its police department's failings both during the May 24 elementary school massacre and since -- announced the suspension of the entire district police force on Friday.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 18:33 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Uvalde has suspended their entire force following the city's investigation into their response to the school shooting. The school district force
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 19:03 |
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https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491?t=IjuOPcWSlVOd5SfIZUmANQ&s=19 Wtf is this tweet supposed to mean? Epistemic closure has really gotten to the point where normies need a glossary to understand whatever insane poo poo the GOP are blithering about this week
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 19:23 |
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491?t=IjuOPcWSlVOd5SfIZUmANQ&s=19 Kayne wore a White Lives Matter shirt recent, Musk is* buying twitter (which they interpret as a "restoration of free speech" ie they can be even more openly horrible without consequence), and Trump...well, Trump. *presuming his neurons don't fuse and he tries to weasel out of it again.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 19:31 |
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491?t=IjuOPcWSlVOd5SfIZUmANQ&s=19 It's just virtue signaling in favor of racism. Kanye wore a white lives matter shirt Elon is going to let the racist post on twitter again Trump is going to make the non-racists pay
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 19:49 |
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The DoD is going to remove and rename all government property named after confederate generals. The biggest changes will be to famous military bases like Fort Bragg. But, they will also be removing plaques and statues from several academies, parks, and West Point. The biggest name changes are: quote:Fort Liberty from Fort Bragg, North Carolina They are also banning all confederate flags from being sold at historical army site gift shops and active bases. There are also apparently dozens of roads owned by the government named after Robert E. Lee that are getting renamed as well. https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1578100829923450880
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:08 |
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there's gonna be some private named Greg Adams who gets sent to Fort Gregg-Adams and that's gonna suuuuuck for him
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:11 |
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Evangelical Christian author Rod Dreher - who worked for the LA Times, NPR, the Wall Street Journal, and the Weekly Standard - has put out an insane essay today in the American Conservative where makes weirdly anti-Semitic claims about Jews controlling culture and seems to out himself as bisexual. There are also apparently "throuples" moving in all around him in his neighborhood and worries that humanity is at risk of extinction become they are becoming both too gay and too asexual. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1578369704137105413 Full article: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/forgetting-how-to-be-a-civilization/ quote:Forgetting How To Be A Civilization
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:33 |
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I know it's a weird thing to get hung up on, but estimates max out at 30% of the US population being Evangelical, and only if you use a definite that includes black evangelical churches and denominations like 7th Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses. Stricter definitions get an estimate of 6% to 15% of the population. It's nowhere close to 40% of the US.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:42 |
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Tibalt posted:I know it's a weird thing to get hung up on, but estimates max out at 30% of the US population being Evangelical, and only if you use a definite that includes black evangelical churches and denominations like 7th Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses. Stricter definitions get an estimate of 6% to 15% of the population. It's nowhere close to 40% of the US. A lot of his numbers seem to be pulled out of his rear end.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:42 |
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Lost me at quote:It is a scary thing for a teenage boy to think about sex with women.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:46 |
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haveblue posted:Lost me at Every third paragraph contains some quotes. Kind of wild that he thought this was a good idea to publish and that he was the designated "Reasonable Evangelical Columnist" for so many media organizations.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:47 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Evangelical Christian author Rod Dreher - who worked for the LA Times, NPR, the Wall Street Journal, and the Weekly Standard - has put out an insane essay today in the American Conservative where makes weirdly anti-Semitic claims about Jews controlling culture and seems to out himself as bisexual. This the culmination of everything Mr Chapo has been working towards
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:53 |
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Is Rod evangelical now? Last I checked he was Eastern Orthodox.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:54 |
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lobster shirt posted:Is Rod evangelical now? Last I checked he was Eastern Orthodox. You're right. He is now. Apparently, he started evangelical, converted to Catholicism, and then converted to Eastern Orthodox. He mostly writes and comments from the "evangelical" Christian perspective when he is published and booked for speaking gigs.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 20:57 |
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Evangelical Christians have little cultural impact? What?
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 21:20 |
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Ravenfood posted:Evangelical Christians have little cultural impact? What? They're always always the victims and they want to be oppressed so bad
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 21:43 |
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He's just mad the "Christian media" section of Barnes and Noble is such an object of ridicule
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 21:45 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:You're right. He is now. He's mostly desperately afraid that his religion isn't traditional enough.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 21:56 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1578490204964687872 A bit more detail on where Trump is claiming privilege in the MAL seizures.
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 22:05 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:13 |
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Paracaidas posted:
drat, has anyone said "Grand MAL Seizures" yet? e: yeah just checked twitter, a million people did
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# ? Oct 7, 2022 22:23 |