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AI "artist" here. I run stable diffusion on my local machine and generate art. I'm doing all the art for the December issue of a smallish SF magazine. I'd sold a short story to them previously, and they saw my art through Facebook. There are many things about the AI art phenomenon that make me uneasy. Training data sets on artists' work without their permission is legal under the current laws, but I don't think it is ethical. This was inevitable. I doubt there was a way around it. No one could guess the total disruption it is going to cause. This tech works so well that it seems like science fiction. Look at the art produced 2 years ago, versus now. Order of magnitude, and scaling rapidly. If artists could have predicted the future, I doubt as many of them would have shared their work so openly online. The training set data is already large enough. Adding more images will not yield substantial improvements. Future improvements will be made primarily through the algorithm. The coherence problem is the next big leap. Take a look at hands in AI art. One in a thousand times, stable diffusion will get it close to right. DALLE-2 is a little better. There are too many variables: the number of fingers, their position, the thing they're interacting with, gestures. Octopus tentacles, horse legs, it all comes out as spaghetti noodles. Improvements in the identification and labeling of objects in a scene will solve the coherence problem. AI art blew me away when I first saw it. I spent months obsessed by it. Almost none of the "art" I see is impressive. It's all portraits of pretty girls with flowers in their hair, hands out of sight, or landscapes that break down upon close inspection. Trippy, elaborate repeating patterns and asymmetric monstrosities are the only area where AI excels. AI cannot only way around that limitation is a human being using a technique called photobashing, which is basically taking the working parts of images into a composite image, then overpainting by hand. This is where the art is in AI art--the people who understand the limitations are the people making real AI art. If youve looked at enough AI art you'll know it instantly when you see it--coherence, composition, and theme with intent does not come out of a simple text prompt. It requires feeding images through an image2image system with text prompts and iterating, selecting for coherence, iterating over and over again, taking the best parts of multiple images into photoshop. The process itself is not art. A pretty image is not art. Actual art, at least the way I define it, has subtext and tells a story. AI fiction has the same coherence problem as AI imagery but several orders of magnitude worse. At best about 250 coherent words with several copy pasted idioms.
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Oct 9, 2022 00:13
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Lord Bob posted:AI art would be super cool to explore if we were in the fully gay space communism timeline, but we're in the capitalist hellworld timeline so we just get the techbro wealth extraction version instead and it's going to try and leave the human beings it relied on to create their model to starve. Give everyone UBI then we can train ai models on whatever art you can find with no morally questionable copyright "but it's not illegal" poo poo. half built garden is great, ruthanna emrys is great, everyone should read everything she has written bonus, AFAIK Litany of Earth is still free, and a perfect introduction to her Lovecraft
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Oct 9, 2022 00:13
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MartingaleJack posted:AI "artist" here. I run stable diffusion on my local machine and generate art. I'm doing all the art for the December issue of a smallish SF magazine. I'd sold a short story to them previously, and they saw my art through Facebook. Yeah, this is a take I can get behind. I've fiddled a lot with the stuff myself and my only real additions are that most of the stuff you see being tossed around by obvious grifters are loving incompetent prompts - judging ai art as art will not benefit most discussions if you're looking at those guys. (technically poor art has an interesting place but I think it shouldn't be focal when establishing baselines). the actual work of ai art is learning what the machine thinks various phrases mean, and then working how to apply or combine them. most grifters in the space instead just use 'trending on artstation' and whatnot like talismans. they don't know what it's doing but they're feeling like it adds something. The thing about the training pool that I think is very funny that people on all sides don't seem to realize: it only goes up to 2019. So it isn't """aware""" of anything more current than that. The other thing too is that I've seen a lot of people claim based on the prompt naming a specific artist that said artist is being copied when you can look at the output and see it's not emulating the requested artist at all. A lot of the sameiness you see comes from that - people basically feeding white noise in and getting something generic out. Being able to actually describe a given style will produce more distinctive results - instead we get a pool of grifters who just tell us exactly who they want to plagiarize because they don't know anything about art. i dunno, I'm fascinated by the possibilities of the space when you actually dig deep into the usage of it as a tool but now's the time to start building in at least protections for artists and look to the potential labour issues.
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Oct 9, 2022 01:54
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im tired of reading about ai art ethics in the sf&f thread
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Oct 9, 2022 02:13
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please move the AI art chat to yospos, it sure doesn't belong here. Bounced off another michael flynn story, luckily it was a library loan copy. Hoping that the upcoming Martha Wells fantasy novel is a return to her Ile-Rien setting (and not another Raksura novel), but would be vastly happy with a standalone story like City of Bones or Wheel of the Infinite.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:20
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quantumfoam posted:Amazingly the bungie marathon story website is still getting new comments, and I badly need to find an offline archive of that website. Crazy deep lore that covers almost every game Bungie the game developer ever made. It's not hard to make your own using wget; it takes a while to run, but you can just start it up and leave it running. Here's one for Pathways (150MB) and another for Marathon (2.8GB), both converted for offline reading (in a browser; you could convert them into epubs fairly easily, and with a bit of work you might even be able to convert them into epubs small enough for an e-reader to open without exploding, but I haven't attempted this). ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 03:08
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ToxicFrog posted:It's not hard to make your own using wget; it takes a while to run, but you can just start it up and leave it running. Cool. Thank you for the Bungie game-lore links, and the time spent doing all that stuff.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:31
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The dude who did my book cover was recently brought on to do special editions of Wynn-Jones’ books for his domestic market. Man, they’re amazing. His use of color is out of this world https://mobile.twitter.com/ArchApolar/status/1555542804096745472
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Oct 9, 2022 03:42
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Jedit posted:Next time General Battuta is feeling hard done by because the Baru Cormorant novels are shortened to The Traitor etc. in the UK, he can perhaps console himself with a copy of Tamsyn Muir's famous German SF novel, I'm Gideon. Please tell me the sequels are I'm Harrow and I'm Nona.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:54
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pseudorandom name posted:Please tell me the sequels are I'm Harrow and I'm Nona. I hope the conclusion is I'm "Not Dead"
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Oct 9, 2022 04:16
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pseudorandom name posted:Please tell me the sequels are I'm Harrow and I'm Nona. I’m Gideon You’re Harrow Do You Know Who I Am Yet?
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Oct 9, 2022 08:06
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I, Baru
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Oct 9, 2022 12:48
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neongrey posted:i dunno, I'm fascinated by the possibilities of the space when you actually dig deep into the usage of it as a tool but now's the time to start building in at least protections for artists and look to the potential labour issues. "Three years. Twenty-four murders. But I finally had him cornered - the only way out was behind me. Our eyes met across the hanger and with a subtle nod, we agreed - the fight would begin after we fueled up on electrolytes with Gatorade, The Thirst Quencher. When death is on the line, I need my Gatorade Lemon Lime" I'm gonna read this poo poo in an AI generated KU book next year.
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Oct 9, 2022 14:19
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Death's End (Three Body Problem #3) by Cixin Liu - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WDVKZY0/ The Kingdom of Copper (Daevabad #2) by SA Chakraborty - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076P8TD5Y/ We Can Build You by Philip K Dick - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LVQYWG/
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Oct 9, 2022 15:37
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RDM posted:I'm fascinated by how charging companies to embed their branded merchandise into art models is something that will happen in the real world (if it isn't happening already). There was that time that the German edition of a Terry Pratchett novel had a soup ad in it: https://lithub.com/the-time-terry-pratchetts-german-publisher-inserted-a-soup-ad-into-his-novel/ But it's not quite an integrated branding.
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Oct 9, 2022 17:23
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a friendly penguin posted:There was that time that the German edition of a Terry Pratchett novel had a soup ad in it: https://lithub.com/the-time-terry-pratchetts-german-publisher-inserted-a-soup-ad-into-his-novel/ But it's not quite an integrated branding. "Librarian! Libriarian! Excuse me, but there's a soup in my book!"
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Oct 9, 2022 17:29
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Everyone posted:Here's a post from the Solo RPG thread in the Traditional Games forum on the site. I used to work with the guy who made The Wretched. Didn't expect to see it pop up in this discussion. Half tempted to ask him what he thinks. More on topic for the thread, I didn't realise that Brian Catling had died. Only found out when I bought Hollow the other day and the bookseller told me. Now I'm finally getting around to listening to The Erstwhile, too.
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Oct 9, 2022 20:45
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Everyone posted:I hope the conclusion is I'm "Not Dead" hi, I'm not dead,
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Oct 10, 2022 01:24
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I just finished the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by PKD, which, of course, was the basis for the Blade Runner movies. I enjoyed the book much more than I thought I would, considering there are significant changes from the films. The technological religion of Mercerism, “empathy boxes,” deformed humans on a radioactive Earth after nuclear war called “specials,” etc. I’m getting into more PKD stuff, and I can’t decide between UBIK and A Scanner Darkly. I’m leaning towards UBIK; from what I understand, its a total sci-fi mindfuck in a good way, while A Scanner Darkly is mostly about drugs and drug culture? Any suggestions?
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Oct 10, 2022 04:36
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I thought Scanner was better prose than UBIK, personally. But my favorite PKD story is still "Second Variety," so I'm kinda basic.GreyjoyBastard posted:hi, I'm not dead, Hi, Dad, I'm- oh oh no
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Oct 10, 2022 05:29
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My favourites by Dick are VALIS (if you want something "serious") or The Zap Gun for something more goofy.
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Oct 10, 2022 08:28
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An SF book collection is like lesbian porn: adding some Dick isn't going to improve it.
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Oct 10, 2022 08:35
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MLSM posted:I just finished the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by PKD, which, of course, was the basis for the Blade Runner movies. I enjoyed the book much more than I thought I would, considering there are significant changes from the films. The technological religion of Mercerism, “empathy boxes,” deformed humans on a radioactive Earth after nuclear war called “specials,” etc. Flow my tears the policeman said is really good, I think my favorite of his is A maze of death, which I find isn't mentioned that often.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:19
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I recall people here were positive towards Steel Frame? https://twitter.com/apocrobot/status/1577997093041487872
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Oct 10, 2022 10:28
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Steel Frame good. This go on list.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:35
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C.M. Kruger posted:I recall people here were positive towards Steel Frame? OH poo poo Thank you, this made my day.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:37
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C.M. Kruger posted:I recall people here were positive towards Steel Frame? I liked it but can’t remember much about it. Did the dreadnought Demiurge feature in the first book at all, just as an early indication of if I need to do a reread or if it may be something fresh but in the same setting?
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Oct 10, 2022 10:42
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isn't that the name of the prison ship in orbit of the anomaly or w.e.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:45
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That's the Horizon. The Demiurge was the Sigurd dreadnought whose systems fell prey to the sentient alien virus first and attacked the Horizon.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:58
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The Wind's Twelve Quarters by Ursula K Le Guin - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MG75652/
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Oct 10, 2022 15:16
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MLSM posted:I just finished the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by PKD, which, of course, was the basis for the Blade Runner movies. I enjoyed the book much more than I thought I would, considering there are significant changes from the films. The technological religion of Mercerism, “empathy boxes,” deformed humans on a radioactive Earth after nuclear war called “specials,” etc. UBIK is the Platonic ideal of a PKD story and it’s hella fun, whereas Scanner Darkly is, well, more dark and serious and one of his most well-written. I personally enjoyed The Penultimate Truth, and it’s not one I see recommended as much as the others. By the time you get to VALIS, you’re into his Exegesis stuff, where he gets heavily into Gnosticism/Kabbala. Reading up on that stuff beforehand would help, and tbh I’d leave his last novels for last because it’s really him trying to work out his own personal religion in autofiction form Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 10, 2022 |
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Oct 10, 2022 15:28
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MLSM posted:I just finished the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by PKD, which, of course, was the basis for the Blade Runner movies. I enjoyed the book much more than I thought I would, considering there are significant changes from the films. The technological religion of Mercerism, “empathy boxes,” deformed humans on a radioactive Earth after nuclear war called “specials,” etc. A Scanner Darkly is PKD's recollection of being down and out with a bunch of junkies in California. When he got his poo poo together enough to try and get it sold, his publisher said he needed to add a sci fi element, so one is messily slapped over something almost entirely auto-biographical.
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Oct 10, 2022 15:39
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GreyjoyBastard posted:hi, I'm not dead, Avatar checks out.
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Oct 10, 2022 16:26
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C.M. Kruger posted:I recall people here were positive towards Steel Frame? Yeah why not
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Oct 10, 2022 16:35
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Or maybe not, seems to not be listed anywhere I can find?
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Oct 10, 2022 20:52
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Groke posted:Steel Frame good. This go on list. 
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Oct 10, 2022 23:41
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How did people like Nona? I liked Gideon, but only grudgingly began to enjoy Harrow about 50% of the way through. It sounds like it’s sort of a departure from both? Ccs posted:The dude who did my book cover was recently brought on to do special editions of Wynn-Jones’ books for his domestic market. Man, they’re amazing. His use of color is out of this world That’s such a good catch getting him to do your cover! Wish he’d do more non Thai books, because these are great. https://www.wizardingworld.com/news/stunning-new-illustrated-harry-potter-book-covers-unveiled-for-thailand-twentieth-anniversary
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Oct 11, 2022 05:41
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tildes posted:How did people like Nona? I was intensely annoyed with it for the first 50%, begrudgingly enthralled for the last 50%, and haven't stopped thinking about Paul since.
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Oct 11, 2022 05:44
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tildes posted:How did people like Nona? I liked Gideon, but only grudgingly began to enjoy Harrow about 50% of the way through. It sounds like it’s sort of a departure from both? It's as different from harrow and Gideon as harrow was from gideon. Don't go in expecting anything.
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Oct 11, 2022 05:55
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At this point I'm expecting Alecto to be in the style of an epistolary novel.
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Oct 11, 2022 06:47
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