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Feliday Melody posted:https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-blocks-starlink-in-crimea-amid-nuclear-fears-report-2022-10?r=US&IR=T Relatedly https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1580216571083259905 Could've shut the gently caress up and absorbed the passive praise but nope.
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Oct 12, 2022 16:36
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:"dragon's teeth" is just a generic term for concrete obstacles placed to block vehicles. its not particularly a nazi innovation or anything, except that the nazis are associated with this specific kind of "big rock you put to stop vehicle". otherwise most forces used anti-tank and anti-vehicle obstacles at some point or another Trenches can still be a good way to remain unseen: you need to add overhead cover. There's no perfect answer to remaining unseen in a battlefield saturated with cheap optics. That doesn't negate the benefits cover provides for direct fire engagements. As useful as little drones are, breakouts aren't happening because one of them drops a grenade in a trench. Artillery still isn't accurate enough to land inside a trench consistently. Don't get me wrong: trenches alone won't save you. But there is still value in digging in.
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Oct 12, 2022 16:37
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I would like to know where I can buy military grade sets of winter clothing for $30, that seems very useful.
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Oct 12, 2022 16:39
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https://twitter.com/archer83able/status/1580186174026829824 Are the Russians re-using the same road pieces that got blasted originally? Just lifting them out of the water and sticking them back on? I feel like I'm misunderstanding that tweet in some way. Donkringel fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 12, 2022 |
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Oct 12, 2022 16:40
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While I would caution a bit against Meduza when they only have Russian sources, but they do here compare it what the Pentagon said 8th August reported by CNN and what the British defense minister have said. Both the numbers below was before the Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kharkiv. I assume they come from their respective intelligence services. So I wouldn't dismiss it. https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-08-22/h_6ef3b02018b57397597a3d79e77d47f3 quote:“I think it’s safe to suggest that the Russians have probably taken 70 or 80,000 casualties in the less than six months. Now that is a combination of killed in action and wounded in action, that number might be a little lower, little higher, but I think that’s kind of in the ballpark,” Kahl said. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war-invasion-russia-latest-news-b1023274.html quote:Updating MPs on the conflict, Mr Wallace said: “Russia continues to lose significant equipment and personnel.
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Oct 12, 2022 16:41
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TheRat posted:I would like to know where I can buy military grade sets of winter clothing for $30, that seems very useful. Bulk discount. What will you do with the other 49,998 sets?
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Oct 12, 2022 16:49
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Ynglaur posted:Trenches can still be a good way to remain unseen: you need to add overhead cover. There's no perfect answer to remaining unseen in a battlefield saturated with cheap optics. That doesn't negate the benefits cover provides for direct fire engagements. As useful as little drones are, breakouts aren't happening because one of them drops a grenade in a trench. Artillery still isn't accurate enough to land inside a trench consistently. And Anti-Vehicle Ditches, AVDs, can be a very good tool for slowing an attacking armored force if used in conjunction with mines/wire and overwatch. I question if they will have the forces/discipline to fully benefit from static defense though. You need disciplined troops to watch the line, you need smartly laid out minefields that would allow you to counterattack safely and you need good engineers to make sure your AVD will actually stop anything. Also, construction of fighting positions with overhead cover so you don't get merked by a drone before it all starts. People laughing at Russia for doing this should also know that this is the U.S. doctrine for defense. 2 or more types of obstacles and fighting positions set behind. But the U.S. only is supposed to go on the defense long enough to prepare another attack. I don't know if Russia has another attack in them.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:01
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You can get military surplus gear all over the place online. Years back I bought a 5 pack of some eastern European issued tank crew snow pants for like $20. They were pretty decent quality.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:03
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:"dragon's teeth" is just a generic term for concrete obstacles placed to block vehicles. its not particularly a nazi innovation or anything, except that the nazis are associated with this specific kind of "big rock you put to stop vehicle". otherwise most forces used anti-tank and anti-vehicle obstacles at some point or another As mentioned earlier I don't see that there's anything inherently wrong with digging trenches, and the fact that it's "WW2 techniques" doesn't inherently invalidate it - if it's still applicable to the modern battlefield it's still applicable, not like WW2 soldiers were scoffing about the Germans building trenches "like it was the American Civil War" or something. That being said, I'm not sure if it's just the video being really zoomed out or something, but those trenches look really really straight? Which is weird because as early as WW1 they figured out that you want to make crenelated trenches instead that don't run in a straight line because those big wide open straight lines channel shrapnel and explosive force from any shell that lands in the trench straight down the entire length of the trench, wiping out everyone within. Better to have the trenches zig-zag back and forth instead so that any explosive force is isolated to one small section of the trench. Like for comparison, have some images from WW1.   
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Oct 12, 2022 17:08
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Feliday Melody posted:https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-blocks-starlink-in-crimea-amid-nuclear-fears-report-2022-10?r=US&IR=T Weren't they already blocking starlink in occupied parts of Ukraine?
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Oct 12, 2022 17:09
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Tomn posted:That being said, I'm not sure if it's just the video being really zoomed out or something, but those trenches look really really straight? Which is weird because as early as WW1 they figured out that you want to make crenelated trenches instead that don't run in a straight line because those big wide open straight lines channel shrapnel and explosive force from any shell that lands in the trench straight down the entire length of the trench, wiping out everyone within. Better to have the trenches zig-zag back and forth instead so that any explosive force is isolated to one small section of the trench. there are zig-zag trenches in the secondary line, looks like they're just pressed for time and running the trenching machine in a straight line. trenchers can be used to dig more sensible trenches, if you're not desperate
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Oct 12, 2022 17:12
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cinci zoo sniper posted:While I remain sceptical of the 90k number, given the history of veracity of “leaked true casualties” from Russia, I wonder how large is the AWOL/deserters group. I question the accuracy of their reporting mechanisms for this stuff even if the leak is real. There is a lot of evidence that commanders are reporting things going much better than they really are and this must extend to casualty reports.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:13
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FishBulbia posted:Weren't they already blocking starlink in occupied parts of Ukraine? The reporting on that is conflicting, and more on the side of it not working in specific instances, rather than as a general geofencing policy. Tomn posted:That being said, I'm not sure if it's just the video being really zoomed out or something, but those trenches look really really straight? I’m definitely not a trenching expert, but to my eye it looks like the actual trenches weren’t shown all that much, and we mostly saw the ditches that are supposed to slow down advancing vehicles.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:14
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Donkringel posted:
Transportation construction inspector here, the wording of the headline could be funky or the Russians could be attempting a poorly thought out repair plan. Your first step step in repairing that deck span would be to remove the damaged section which the barge crane might be doing. But I don’t see any other equipment for loading out that section. It would be inadvisable to just try to stick the same section back on the pier beam seats. The bridge beams could be bent and there’s diaphragm pieces at each pier and mid span of the bridge beams that could be damaged. I certainly wouldn’t park a backhoe on damaged section of deck pitching towards the sea. An explosion powerful enough to knock down two spans of deck AND knock another section off it’s beam seats they’re picking with the barge crane in that photo has most likely damaged support structures in ways that might not even be visible. Both bridges should be swarming with workers conducting visual inspections along with x-ray equipment to check steel that had been on fire or hit with the shockwave. I wanted to hold off making armchair assessments from the limited photos and videos I’ve seen, but I’m thinking those bridges are more hosed up than they’re letting on. Both lanes of the road bridge are shut down for construction implying traffic isn’t being allowed across.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:19
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/12/ukraine-russia-putin-news-latest-missile-attacks-g7-talks-belarus/ Apparently bunch of Russian helicopters got shut down this morning
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Oct 12, 2022 17:20
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Tesseraction posted:Relatedly https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1580216571083259905 Unfortunately, shutting up is beyond what Elon is capable of.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:53
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:there are zig-zag trenches in the secondary line, looks like they're just pressed for time and running the trenching machine in a straight line. trenchers can be used to dig more sensible trenches, if you're not desperate Looking at the angle of the cut, I'm pretty sure that's purely an anti-vehicle ditch. Steep on one side so approaching tanks have to slow way down and turn into great targets.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:55
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Apologies if this is getting too USPOL but aren't there literal laws against a private citizen trying to do diplomacy with a foreign country? I can't imagine the state department being amused with that kind of poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2022 17:56
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KillHour posted:Apologies if this is getting too USPOL but aren't there literal laws against a private citizen trying to do diplomacy with a foreign country? I can't imagine the state department being amused with that kind of poo poo. The Logan Act. However, it is both constitutionally questionable and almost completely unused. Only two people have ever been indicted (one in 1802 and the other in 1852), neither were convicted. It mostly exists as something to threaten or scold people with.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:04
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Tomn posted:As mentioned earlier I don't see that there's anything inherently wrong with digging trenches, and the fact that it's "WW2 techniques" doesn't inherently invalidate it - if it's still applicable to the modern battlefield it's still applicable, not like WW2 soldiers were scoffing about the Germans building trenches "like it was the American Civil War" or something. Digging trenches is normal, and in fact sitting on the surface when the enemy has lots of artillery would be straight up suicidal. The comparisons to WW2 are just dumb. Soldiers on the defense still dig trenches for the same reason they still carry guns and grenades.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:05
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KillHour posted:Apologies if this is getting too USPOL but aren't there literal laws against a private citizen trying to do diplomacy with a foreign country? I can't imagine the state department being amused with that kind of poo poo. Oligarchs... following laws? What kind of fairy tale silliness is this?
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Oct 12, 2022 18:06
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KillHour posted:Apologies if this is getting too USPOL but aren't there literal laws against a private citizen trying to do diplomacy with a foreign country? I can't imagine the state department being amused with that kind of poo poo. Diplomacy? He made a tweet and may have talked with Putin, although I'm super skeptical of that report. Why would Putin even want to talk with Musk, to try and convince him to shut down Starlink in exchange for... giving Germany gas for Tesla's plant? I would assume Putin gets enough bullshit talks with Macron to not want more talks with someone completely bonkers. I also don't really see why disallowing Starlink in Crimea is a big deal right now anyway, besides optics -- Ukrainian government control is nowhere close to Crimea, so if it was accessible there, it anyway would only be accessible to Russian forces. I mean optically it's a dick move, but Ukraine isn't exactly driving down the countryside to Simferopol yet. Worrying about that now seems like putting the cart before the horse, especially since it's a decision that takes 1 second to enact and change one way or the other and it's not like it requires time in advance to prepare.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:09
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Saladman posted:Diplomacy? He made a tweet and may have talked with Putin, although I'm super skeptical of that report. Why would Putin even want to talk with Musk, to try and convince him to shut down Starlink in exchange for... giving Germany gas for Tesla's plant? I would assume Putin gets enough bullshit talks with Macron to not want more talks with someone completely bonkers. There were reports from Ukrainian troops that their Starlink kits weren’t working in the ongoing counteroffensive areas, but it doesn’t look systemic to me.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:20
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Those straight trenches are bugging me because I thought you really, really wanted them to wind and wiggle so somebody couldn't penetrate somewhere and just mow down both ways with machine guns.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:26
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Those straight trenches are bugging me because I thought you really, really wanted them to wind and wiggle so somebody couldn't penetrate somewhere and just mow down both ways with machine guns. Also to limit the effects of the blast if a shell gets lucky and lands right in the trench.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:32
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Those straight trenches are bugging me because I thought you really, really wanted them to wind and wiggle so somebody couldn't penetrate somewhere and just mow down both ways with machine guns. The second line trench looks good so as someone mentioned the "first trench line" might not be an actual trench but rather an anti-vehicle ditch. Basically a ditch that is deep and wide enough that you can't drive straight forward over it with a tank. E: checked with a mil-nerd who has seen them on video, those lines are a lot bigger than they look in the photo and that's indeed a huge tank ditch. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Oct 12, 2022 |
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Oct 12, 2022 18:33
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Those straight trenches are bugging me because I thought you really, really wanted them to wind and wiggle so somebody couldn't penetrate somewhere and just mow down both ways with machine guns. What I'm guessing is that you take the big machine to dig a long straight line quickly, and then use smaller ones (or shovels) to make it squiggly?
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Oct 12, 2022 18:38
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lilljonas posted:The second line trench looks good so as someone mentioned the "first trench line" might not be an actual trench but rather an anti-vehicle ditch. Basically a ditch that is deep and wide enough that you can't drive straight forward over it with a tank. Woah I had to scroll quite a bit to even see that. Yeah, there looks like something zig-zagging. I have to take it at face value that the label of "second line of trenching" actually is a second line. I'm not good at this Twitter thing so here goes: https://twitter.com/73ellak/status/1580198850123350017 Also from that thread: "The Imaginov Line" hehehe.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:43
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saratoga posted:Digging trenches is normal, and in fact sitting on the surface when the enemy has lots of artillery would be straight up suicidal. digging fighting positions in concealment is normal, if you're short on time. breaking out the trencher and putting it behind a bunch of prepared vehicle obstacles in a field is something you do when you're pretty much out of time, or you're trying to create a position for a bunch of soldiers who can't really be trusted to prepare their own defensive positions due to inexperience. or if you think you're going to have to square off against a mechanized force and the only thing you have to prevent that is a bunch of leg infantry the main reason this is being called obsolete is because concealment is more important than cover on a modern battlefield. there's all kinds of things that can kill you if they know you're there Lord Stimperor posted:What I'm guessing is that you take the big machine to dig a long straight line quickly, and then use smaller ones (or shovels) to make it squiggly? trenchers can dig squiggly trenches. i've been persuaded the straight line one is mostly just to block vehicles
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Oct 12, 2022 18:45
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lilljonas posted:The second line trench looks good so as someone mentioned the "first trench line" might not be an actual trench but rather an anti-vehicle ditch. Basically a ditch that is deep and wide enough that you can't drive straight forward over it with a tank. I wanted to quote you for a crab battle but also: I just got done with 6 months of schoolin' in Russian offense and defense doctrine (the opponent being Russia was just to have an opponent to teach U.S. engineer doctrine). I'm pretty well schooled in it even if Russia doesn't seem to be using much of their own doctrine. If they follow their own doctrine here, they should also be digging in vehicle fighting positions about 2-3 KM back to allow their armor to fire past that trench. 4-9 KM behind that should be different types of tube artillery they can use to fire HE or scatter mines as needed. 10-80 KM behind that should be rocket batteries and units held to reinforce or conduct counter attacks. I hope we get more drone footage or imagery to see how extensive this will become.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:46
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Saladman posted:I also don't really see why disallowing Starlink in Crimea is a big deal right now anyway, besides optics -- Ukrainian government control is nowhere close to Crimea, so if it was accessible there, it anyway would only be accessible to Russian forces. I mean optically it's a dick move, but Ukraine isn't exactly driving down the countryside to Simferopol yet. Worrying about that now seems like putting the cart before the horse, especially since it's a decision that takes 1 second to enact and change one way or the other and it's not like it requires time in advance to prepare. Well for one thing, the US paid for the starlink poo poo. It wasn't just a gift that Musk should be able to gently caress with. And once he gets further corrupted by russian propaganda, what's to stop him from deactivating the whole system that Ukraine may be relying on. It's a dick move that doesn't help anything, and may make things worse.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:46
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OLENA ROSHCHINA - TUESDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2022, 20:30 Russians have created an image of a passport of a Ukrainian citizen named Semen Khaidenko in a photo editor in order to persuade people that Ukraine is behind the Crimean Bridge explosion. Can't believe UP reported this lmao
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Oct 12, 2022 18:51
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Dirt5o8 posted:I wanted to quote you for a crab battle but also:
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Oct 12, 2022 18:52
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Saladman posted:I also don't really see why disallowing Starlink in Crimea is a big deal right now anyway, besides optics -- Ukrainian government control is nowhere close to Crimea, so if it was accessible there, it anyway would only be accessible to Russian forces. I mean optically it's a dick move, but Ukraine isn't exactly driving down the countryside to Simferopol yet. Worrying about that now seems like putting the cart before the horse, especially since it's a decision that takes 1 second to enact and change one way or the other and it's not like it requires time in advance to prepare. The people in Crimea have pretty good internet right now anyway.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:53
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:digging fighting positions in concealment is normal, if you're short on time. breaking out the trencher and putting it behind a bunch of prepared vehicle obstacles in a field is something you do when you're pretty much out of time, or you're trying to create a position for a bunch of soldiers who can't really be trusted to prepare their own defensive positions due to inexperience. or if you think you're going to have to square off against a mechanized force and the only thing you have to prevent that is a bunch of leg infantry Also occasionally you may want to dig simple ditches, so that rainwater and groundwater doesn't flood the actual trenches so much. Not saying that this is the case here.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:04
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mobby_6kl posted:Hopefully it doesn't become more extensive! Otherwise it would be a tremendous pain in the rear end to evict them out of there without air superiority. Attacking a prepared position like that will suck bad even with air support. I don't even know what Ukraine has for breaching assets. You really want mine clearing line charges instead of the plows on your tanks. And having a bridging asset is quicker than crawling up a bulldozer to deal with the trenches. If Russia lays wire, that has to be cleared by sappers or it will wind up in a tanks road wheels and could knock the track off. Ukraine needs lots and lots of artillery for suppression and smoke. They need to concentrate armor units to setup support by fire to cover the sappers opening holes in the obstacles and to capitalize on a breach If Russia stands and fights here, Ukraine will take some serious casualties and equipment losses. If. I could also see conscripts running off under hard enough artillery fire.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:05
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sexy tiger boobs posted:Well for one thing, the US paid for the starlink poo poo. It wasn't just a gift that Musk should be able to gently caress with. And once he gets further corrupted by russian propaganda, what's to stop him from deactivating the whole system that Ukraine may be relying on. It's a dick move that doesn't help anything, and may make things worse. So is the US paying for Musk to provide Russians in Crimea with Starlink access? I’m not really sure what Ukraine loses and Russia gains from this.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:05
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sexy tiger boobs posted:Well for one thing, the US paid for the starlink poo poo. It wasn't just a gift that Musk should be able to gently caress with. And once he gets further corrupted by russian propaganda, what's to stop him from deactivating the whole system that Ukraine may be relying on. It's a dick move that doesn't help anything, and may make things worse. IIRC, that is what was discussed last time it came up. It's out of Musk's hands now, and the DoD will not let him just kill switch something paid for during active hostilities. Musk has alluded to that as well, saying it was "confidential information" how it operates. Dirt5o8 posted:Attacking a prepared position like that will suck bad even with air support. I don't even know what Ukraine has for breaching assets. You really want mine clearing line charges instead of the plows on your tanks. And having a bridging asset is quicker than crawling up a bulldozer to deal with the trenches. If Russia lays wire, that has to be cleared by sappers or it will wind up in a tanks road wheels and could knock the track off. I'm not sure of what this exact location looks like, but Ukraine has typically just flanked positions like this and forced Russia to flee, instead of engaging head on.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:07
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Tomn posted:So is the US paying for Musk to provide Russians in Crimea with Starlink access? I’m not really sure what Ukraine loses and Russia gains from this. I’m really confused by this question.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:08
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Tomn posted:So is the US paying for Musk to provide Russians in Crimea with Starlink access? I’m not really sure what Ukraine loses and Russia gains from this. Don't you have to have the special receiver to use starlink? Also, are you saying the people of Crimea are Russians, or Ukrainians in a Russian occupied area?
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