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selec posted:I can’t speak to TDD’s implications but it’s safe to say that how seriously a rape accusation against a powerful person is taken is a political decision , and not a moral one to our elites. Yeah! Not just elites either. Despite four years of defund the police and me too, leftists voted for a rapist/cop ticket en masse. Although I’ll posit that the term “wokeism” is inherently cringe, the fact is that most regular people have sublimated the hollow utility of the movement already.
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Oct 11, 2022 23:34
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Yeah! Not just elites either. Despite four years of defund the police and me too, leftists voted for a rapist/cop ticket en masse. Although I’ll posit that the term “wokeism” is inherently cringe, the fact is that most regular people have sublimated the hollow utility of the movement already. Hell, after decades of allegedly being the fiscally-minded, Christian party they went for Trump. Picking either team is just deciding which sins and sons you gotta try and not think about. It’s a mug’s game, unless you don’t actually care about rape, say you do, and somehow benefit from voting. Or just think about it as harm reduction, despite the history of material conditions for the working class. You gotta watch their feet, because they’ve spent a long time learning how to head fake you. Edit: I do think politics is in general more fun for conservatives because they can imagine some classes of people they’re ok with having violence and misfortune on, so being disingenuous and pretending to care about a rape victim once in a while is just like a fun mini-game for them, because the stakes are nonexistent. For liberals that actually believe the stuff they say the cognitive dissonance must be much more present and difficult to manage, I’d guess. selec fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 11, 2022 |
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Oct 11, 2022 23:37
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Yeah! Not just elites either. Despite four years of defund the police and me too, leftists voted for a rapist/cop ticket en masse. Although I’ll posit that the term “wokeism” is inherently cringe, the fact is that most regular people have sublimated the hollow utility of the movement already. You think the people who support defunding police were big supporters of biden? Mainstream democrats are at best center, some are rightwing. Its just that "the right" in this country is mostly waaaaaaay right
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Oct 11, 2022 23:42
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Jaxyon posted:I mean we have a bunch of examples that show that Russia has tried to gain assets or use people in US politics including the Mueller investigation, and we've had some reps who were super duper big on promoting Russia issues for some reason. (Rohrbachre) yeah, it is pretty cheap to buy a pet congressman or two, the big weighty asterisk comes in on claims the various pools of russian money are either 1. part of a russian government scheme as opposed to being private oligarchs buying subservience 2. trying to induce fascism as opposed to just pursuing their own locally corrupt goals or 3. more impactful than any of the domestic organizations pushing for the same outcomes. that they exist, sure, no problem, but when you see takes like "BLM are Russian patsies" you're forcibly reminded it's really easy to proclaim everyone working at cross-purposes to you russian interference and call it a day.
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Oct 11, 2022 23:58
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selec posted:Edit: I do think politics is in general more fun for conservatives because they can imagine some classes of people they’re ok with having violence and misfortune on, so being disingenuous and pretending to care about a rape victim once in a while is just like a fun mini-game for them, because the stakes are nonexistent. For liberals that actually believe the stuff they say the cognitive dissonance must be much more present and difficult to manage, I’d guess. I think that very few people who voted for Joe Biden think he is a rapist - in this random poll 16% of Democratic primary voters thought the sexual assault allegations against him were credible (and a large majority said they had heard about the allegations), and that was from May 2020 so there were six more months with no real press coverage before the election. It's the same for Republicans, most of them don't think sexual assault allegations against Trump are credible. For comparison this random poll shows 73% of Democrats saying sexual assault allegations against Andrew Cuomo were credible, 51% saying he should be impeached, and 61% of Democrats approving of his performance as governor, so it's not just voters automatically rejecting allegations against people they like.
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Oct 12, 2022 00:21
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James Garfield posted:I think that very few people who voted for Joe Biden think he is a rapist - in this random poll 16% of Democratic primary voters thought the sexual assault allegations against him were credible (and a large majority said they had heard about the allegations), and that was from May 2020 so there were six more months with no real press coverage before the election. i suspect that the part where the head of Time's Up was forced to resign in disgrace after her role in trying to cover up Cuomo's predations came to light played a part, tbh the democratic party built a nice little clearinghouse for catch-and-killing stories of sexual harrassment it didn't want making it to a wider audience, and someone, somewhere, came to the conclusion it had outlived its usefulness mid-Cuomo. god, remember back when the Tara Reade story broke, and "well, Time's Up refused to back her" was cited as firm evidence that Reade had to be making it up?
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Oct 12, 2022 00:37
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Yeah, had those exact same allegations been made about an older Republican, the same people who didn't believe it about Biden would largely believe it about that Republican.
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Oct 12, 2022 01:03
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Twincityhacker posted:I wonder how they picked the new names? But this is unambigiously a good thing, first with renaming any public feature with the native slur sq** and now with refusing to honor literal traitors. I am Native and I have no idea what you mean by sq**
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Oct 12, 2022 01:29
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HonorableTB posted:I am Native and I have no idea what you mean by sq** Squaw, DOI recently changed a ton of place names that had the word in it. https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/interior-department-completes-removal-sq-federal-use
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Oct 12, 2022 01:37
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HonorableTB posted:I am Native and I have no idea what you mean by sq** Squaw. The article I read, which I cannot now find of course, censored it like that. I just figured I'd copy it - even though I wasn't sure either what slur it was either. Here's a article from Reuters about it: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-completes-renaming-650-places-remove-derogatory-term-2022-09-08/ Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Oct 12, 2022 |
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Oct 12, 2022 01:38
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sqrt(-1)
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Oct 12, 2022 01:40
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A bit old, but I didn't see this covered: Justice, being full of cops, is a home to a mess of thinskinned whiners who hate any hint of oversight or transparency. Here, we have a thread from Jason Leopold about Justice's remarkably whiny response to the absurd suggestion that they pay the fees that Leopold incurred as he tried to get them to follow their legal obligations. https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577317818751537153 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577319808776798208 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577321937121837056 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577324550764736512 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577326471957204992 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577333449815314436 https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/1577404587975139328 My personal favorite portion is: quote:Despite accomplishing almost nothing by filing this suit against EOIR, Plaintiffs seek to have the taxpayer finance it. To which the only plausible reply is to point out that EOIR's willfully delayed response is the only thing that has or will cost the taxpayers money here. I can only imagine that dealing with Leopold and his requests is annoying as gently caress for state, local, and federal officials... but we all have the annoying aspects of the job and "fail to follow the law and whine to the courts" is a novel solution.
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Oct 12, 2022 01:58
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Leopold and Klippenstein could tell stories for hours about how the ruling class forces anybody doing any kind of reporting that afflicts the comfortable to keep a lawyer ready to sue early and often. Never trust a reporter who doesn’t have to maintain several ongoing court cases as a part of their work. If you ain’t suing it’s because nobody considers your work a meaningful challenge.
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Oct 12, 2022 02:04
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Edit - nm
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Oct 12, 2022 02:39
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https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/12/biden-says-he-doesnt-think-there-will-be-an-economic-recession.htmlquote:President Joe Biden said he doesn’t believe there will be a recession in the near future and if there is, he expects it to be a “slight” economic dip. This is going to bite him in the rear end, isn’t it?
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Oct 12, 2022 04:13
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Eric Cantonese posted:https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/12/biden-says-he-doesnt-think-there-will-be-an-economic-recession.html Probably not before the election.
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Oct 12, 2022 04:32
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Aren't presidents basically supposed to be happy about the economy at all times To the extent that what anyone says matters at all, I imagine the president saying a recession is coming/here is probably pretty bad for people's confidence in the future economy and their decisions on whether to buy or invest in things
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Oct 12, 2022 04:38
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joe football posted:Aren't presidents basically supposed to be happy about the economy at all times Yup.
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Oct 12, 2022 04:40
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It would look worse if he was going on about how wonderful everything is when it's very clear to just about everyone that it is very much not.
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Oct 12, 2022 06:13
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joe football posted:Aren't presidents basically supposed to be happy about the economy at all times Yes but I think we got one of those rare moments where a president was being semi honest with us (when he said we might see a slight dip). Which is what everyone says they want isn't it?
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Oct 12, 2022 07:46
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Charliegrs posted:Yes but I think we got one of those rare moments where a president was being semi honest with us (when he said we might see a slight dip). Which is what everyone says they want isn't it? If everyone does indeed say that, presumably they also desire something more substantive than "it might dip I dunno" It's a pretty flippant response, though I guess the powerful don't really care as it won't affect anyone actually important.
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Oct 12, 2022 08:19
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Charliegrs posted:Yes but I think we got one of those rare moments where a president was being semi honest with us (when he said we might see a slight dip). Which is what everyone says they want isn't it?
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Oct 12, 2022 13:34
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Seems like the president saying "we're heading towards a recession" would create a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Oct 12, 2022 14:26
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Axetrain posted:It would look worse if he was going on about how wonderful everything is when it's very clear to just about everyone that it is very much not. Wasn't that their first move? I don't think Biden directly came out and said it, but plenty of admin spokespeople were talking about how greatly things were improving while lots of people were getting financially hosed over. A lot of "Don't believe your lying eyes, there is no recession in Ba Sing Se"
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Oct 12, 2022 14:37
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There was a huge NYT expose a few weeks ago about Hasidic schools in New York - called Yeshivas - that had been failing to educate their kids at all for decades. This included things like not being able to read or speak English when graduating from high school with 12 years of "English" classes, beating kids, and having 99% of their students fail a standardized test in 2021 when they were first required to participate. In addition, over 1/4 of graduates were chronically unemployed and unable to function in modern society - even when sticking entirely within the Hasidic community. People who left the community overwhelmingly ended up homeless and addicted to drugs and alcohol. This lead to New York state removing the exemption that these religious schools had gotten. Now, they are bringing criminal charges against one of the schools. Part of the reason they got away with it for so long is that Hasidic Jews are an extremely organized and strong voting bloc in NYC. So much so, that Mayor Eric Adams still wanted to certify the school being sued by the state as meeting requirements because he didn't want to get into trouble with the Hasidic community. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1580210840149446656 quote:Hasidic School Is Breaking State Education Law, N.Y. Official Rules
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Oct 12, 2022 16:06
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However hosed up you think those hasidic schools are, multiply it by 10 and you'll still be surprised with how hosed up they are. It is layers and layers of unreal "how the gently caress did they get away with this for so long" stacked on top of each other
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Oct 12, 2022 19:40
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What exactly is their motivation for harming their own community like that?
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Oct 12, 2022 19:46
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pencilhands posted:What exactly is their motivation for harming their own community like that? This about the schools or Fox News?
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Oct 12, 2022 19:48
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pencilhands posted:What exactly is their motivation for harming their own community like that? I imagine a big part (consciously or not) of it is that it makes their kids completely unable to escape their community. If someone wants "out," how could you possibly go anywhere else when you don't speak the language / have any skills anyone would be willing to pay for.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:49
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PoopShipDestroyer posted:I imagine a big part (consciously or not) of it is that it makes their kids completely unable to escape their community. If someone wants "out," how could you possibly go anywhere else when you don't speak the language / have any skills anyone would be willing to pay for. Pretty much this. By giving the kids a lack of education that they need to cope in the big bad secular world they are forcing the kids to stay in the community. It's pretty much cult logic at this point
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Oct 12, 2022 19:56
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PoopShipDestroyer posted:I imagine a big part (consciously or not) of it is that it makes their kids completely unable to escape their community. If someone wants "out," how could you possibly go anywhere else when you don't speak the language / have any skills anyone would be willing to pay for. It's this. The entrenched powers within the community maintain a stranglehold on the youth, who grow up uneducated and unemployable for the most part, but able to vote in the direction the leaders want and who can draw public benefits (particularly given the social pressure for large families), which then stay in that community and perpetuate the cycle.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:56
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uPen posted:This about the schools or Fox News? The Hasidic schools.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:56
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pencilhands posted:What exactly is their motivation for harming their own community like that? Control. If you can't function outside the community you can be used in all sorts of ways for the people in power. Low wages, social shunning to keep you in line, block voting to keep things running the way they want it to run, etc.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:58
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I suspect that the setup may also allow them to funnel large amounts of the public funding elsewhere.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:59
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A reminder that these ultra orthodox/Hasidic communities all follow a single chief rabbi who acts as the head of the community and his word is law. That is why the rabbi says "vote for this person/not that person" and the members will do what he says because he is the ultimate religious (and that is all there is) authority.
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Oct 12, 2022 19:59
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pencilhands posted:What exactly is their motivation for harming their own community like that? Hasidic communities, especially recently with the new york area courts, are vehemently insular and so strictly observant that the majority of their practices are intentionally isolating. The leadership has doubled down on intentional isolation from the perverse secular world by banning internet access, cellphones, and any non-religious books from family homes. Men have to devote so much of their waking hours to religious study that they almost can't do anything else. Women are put under practically medieval restrictions and obligations as servants to their husband and have to pump out kids endlessly while handling all domestic tasks AND have to do a lot of the money earning so the father can stay doing endless religious study AND have a bunch of rules enforced on them to make them as invisible as possible AND have to follow a bunch of rules that make the mundane domestic tasks very time consuming. Kids get beaten like It's going out of style. Poverty is rampant because of the religious obligations mentioned above. Married women are frequently in need of very complex escape and sheltering needs, because leaving marriage is something that gets discouraged in nearly all cases, including ones with substantial abuse, and divorce is heavily shamed. So a lot of the women who leave are fully and vehemently cut off from support in the only community they've learned to survive in (by designed isolation). Marriages are usually arranged and happen as early as possible, and the hasidic community was one of the most strongly opposed to be laws banning child marriage.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:11
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Discendo Vox posted:I suspect that the setup may also allow them to funnel large amounts of the public funding elsewhere. It's always this. Every single time I see a push for school vouchers or parents choice in education, especially when religious freedom is involved, it boils down to "How can we live rent free on the public's dime."
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Oct 12, 2022 20:13
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kzin602 posted:It's always this. Every single time I see a push for school vouchers or parents choice in education, especially when religious freedom is involved, it boils down to "How can we live rent free on the public's dime." They got a lot of money from SNAP for kids and NYC set up a special program that paid for their busses to school. But, other than that, they didn't actually get a ton of public money. There were no vouchers or anything. It was entirely about protecting their worldview/lifestyle from the secular world and a huge fear (even among some non-Ultra Orthodox Jews) that Jewish culture (and for them, specifically NYC Hasidic culture which doesn't exist anywhere else in the country) is dying. Most of them live in extreme poverty and the Yeshivas have a higher poverty rate and a lower test score average than even the poorest and worst performing public schools in NYC. It's very much about maintaining the traditional culture and society and control over making sure people don't leave.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:17
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Keep in mind that almost everyone in the Hasidic community is descended from Holocaust survivors, which goes a long way towards explaining (not excusing, of course) why they're so vehemently opposed to anything secular threatening to infringe on their way of life. Reupping the Ask/Tell thread from about 10 years ago about a Satmar woman who left the community, an absolutely incredible read: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3391326&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Oct 12, 2022 20:26
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ninjahedgehog posted:Keep in mind that almost everyone in the Hasidic community is descended from Holocaust survivors, which goes a long way towards explaining (not excusing, of course) why they're so vehemently opposed to anything secular threatening to infringe on their way of life. Seconding this A/T thread. I read it a while ago and it is very interesting. The ultra-orthodox, hasidic, haredis, and kibbutzniks are basically like entirely different civilizations from most modern reform and conservative Jews. There's even huge tensions between those groups and your average Israeli in Israel.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:30
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