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miniscule12 posted:I'm spit balling here, but one thing they could have done is gone for a "miniatures agnostic" approach for legacy armies where you can just declare a mini represents a new mk4 stat block and later make models that could be used for those roles. I think the big failing here is that the old models mean nothing now, there's no reason they can't just rename everything like GW did. An "X, Y and Z now counts as A, and there'll be new sculpts by 2024" would probably go a long way.
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 13:01 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 06:32 |
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The Deleter posted:Do not make another death thread, we've already seen multiple times what that leads to Did it lead to death? I bet it lead to death
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 13:29 |
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No, but we got some good jokes
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 13:40 |
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The GW death thread led to a new era of prosperity and good games from GW, so why not do PP the same favor?
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 16:37 |
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I mean I'm not sure it's fair to be bummed that my mkii armies are no longer valid armies due to new subfaction restrictions but nevertheless I am bummed.
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 17:10 |
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moths posted:The GW death thread led to a new era of prosperity and good games from GW, so why not do PP the same favor? Do you see Matt Wilson pulling a Tom Kirby and getting the gently caress out of dodge before the company implodes?
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 19:01 |
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To be fair, he managed to do it with AEG, so it’s not quite the slam dunk without historical precedent I was going for.
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 19:02 |
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FrostyPox posted:PP death pool thread when? I really don't see war machine growing when the cost of entry is so high. Is there enough activity to cover more than one PP thread?
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 20:50 |
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Iron Crowned posted:I think the big failing here is that the old models mean nothing now, there's no reason they can't just rename everything like GW did. An even better idea. Other companies will learn a lot from the death of PP. neonchameleon posted:Is there enough activity to cover more than one PP thread? This is the death thread now.
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# ? Oct 13, 2022 21:47 |
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Warmachine was already the worst game the company made before Mk4 was announced and it doesn't look like that's changing.
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# ? Oct 14, 2022 06:40 |
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Warmachine Mk. 4 launches in two weeks, apparently including retail sales. Leaving the rules aside, based on the Gencon models it's easy to feel like this is going to be ugly. Here's a careful and thoughtful post lifted from the Facebook group Warmachine & Hordes General Discussion by someone who just received his Gencon boxes (Gencon was the first week of August):quote:Obligatory "I got my GenCon boxes in, and here's my hot take on them" post. I would have given my personal opinions sooner, but...yeah, well, that's what I get for ordering 3 boxes. An insightful reply, followed by an almost glib response from Privateer Press: some guy posted:I'm now wondering if they do their supports in-house or use auto supports. Supporting for miniatures is a whole different ball game entirely, which is why there are professionals for that. You really shouldn't be seeing such heavy support removal issues and they should be confined to places where they aren't obvious given that these pieces are already all keyed up. Doug Hamilton posted:sure, we use professionals . They are in house. We have been printing minis for 10 years . There are responses from people who got their boxes without broken parts or failed prints. But they're universally things like this: quote:Three boxes oh Khador and everything was fine. Yes things are are brittle but I know PP is aware of this and have faith in them to address it. Acting on faith is quite the thing, given that Privateer Press is saying, in this same thread, that they're not going to fix the problem: Stonehorse Gaming posted:Hope you get your replacement parts pronto, and that they are up to scratch. Doug Hamilton posted:thousands of boxes shipped and you see a small handful because people happy don’t post or don’t want to be mocked for being fanbois Stonehorse Gaming posted:I see your point and for most things it stands true, happy customers make less noise essentially. Doug Hamilton posted:opinions vary... And here's a reply which identifies looming danger for Privateer Press: another dude posted:If the production "quality" is like this for the GenCon boxes, I can't imagine the state they are going to be in with the main army boxes. To summarize
There are people who will drop $200 on an army box, get broken models and just deal with it. Those are the dedicated fans. That describes most of the Gencon customers, and even that crowd has many people squawking. The problem of retail returns is real, but I'll call back to something from last week which seems like the bigger problem. Privateer Press has done nothing to attract new customers for years. The launch of a new edition is a good way of doing this. And all signs are that Privateer Press will squander the opportunity. Returning player with gaps in their collection which otherwise fits one of the legacy army? Too bad, PP won't help you. New customer? Well, I hope you like Khador. And broken models with manufacturing errors. Which will just keep breaking because they're brittle. Existing customers? I hope you had the right models (yet to be announced) or you're in the same boat as returning customers. Mk. 3 didn't have enough players left to handle the expected losses on an edition change over without replenishment. I am growing pessimistic that player replenishment is going to succeed.
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# ? Oct 17, 2022 15:58 |
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I feel like "Can't print fast enough to meet demand" will quickly taper off once the initial demand is met. But yea when I first received my Preview Starter Kit I accidentally dropped one of the Jack torsos and a spiky bit broke
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# ? Oct 17, 2022 16:10 |
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My heavy Cygnar jack's polearms, both of them, broke in transit and my warcaster took a fall and hit the floor. I was expecting it to break, and one arm did come off at the join but his hammer absolutely vaporized instead of just breaking. At some point I will email for replacements but I've cooled off on MK4 while getting really in to Kill Team so I just haven't bothered.
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# ? Oct 17, 2022 16:24 |
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I've cooled off once I found out the only game store in my area plays on a Week Night lol. Even with working from home, by the time I log off, walk my dogs, feed them, feed myself, get the store, unpack models, setup a table and get 1 game in... It's just such a time commitment. Maybe if there was a store that played on the weekend I'd be more interested, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've also been playing Moonbreaker, which is sort of a digital Miniatures game, and it scratches that "I miss minis games" itch well enough for me. Added bonus, you don't need to assemble miniatures which I lack the vocabulary to properly express how much I hate doing that. And being able to Ctrl+Z your painting mistakes is the best thing in the world.
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# ? Oct 17, 2022 16:32 |
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The brittle material is the real "oof" here. A metal model exploding into its component parts when it hit the ground, or the ocassional very thin piece snapping is one thing (loving third edition Dark Eldar Talos arms ), loving shattering when it hits the ground is another. Thinkin I better fill out my Warcaster collection while PP is still around. Of course, it's entirely possible they'll change course, but I wouldn't bet on it, and even if they do, how long would it take? Probably too long. Especially considering there's no <$100 entry point anymore. FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 18, 2022 |
# ? Oct 18, 2022 00:06 |
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...how often is "often"? I'm being serious, do we have any kind of actual data for this? I'm not talking about just social media posts. Also, I thought they said the boxes were getting pushed to a December release? Did I misread something?
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 03:47 |
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There are no public numbers. Privateer Press' position is that the problems are uncommon. But also, they have publically said certain pieces are being redesigned into separate components to prevent breakage. The Khador 'jack's hammer is one I've seen mentioned. Take from that what you will. And there's no official post, it's stuff in comments (from Privateer Press staff) on Facebook. The Khador army box is supposed to released at launch. It's the other two they've pushed back. Unless I missed an announcement on that front?
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 15:57 |
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They're going to launch with one box and no legacy support?
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 16:25 |
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Yes, the Orgoth and Cygnar are delayed until "later in the quarter" and they are proceeding with the release anyway. https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/10/04/mkiv-progress-report/ They'll still sell legacy stuff they have in stock, but not making new stuff.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 17:22 |
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moths posted:They're going to launch with one box and no legacy support? It's the dumbest thing next to announcing a new edition before they had stock levels or a proper production in place. So that is to say it's standard business practice from modern PP.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 17:32 |
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I still can't get over the squat everything strategy. There is literally no reason they couldn't have rolled at least some of the more common legacy models in with a disclaimer that new sculpts would be coming soon.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 17:46 |
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Part of me still wants to defend them but I got nothing
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 17:50 |
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Yeah this poo poo looks dire.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 17:56 |
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It's completely baffling, since the only imaginable advantage of switching to 3d print was (ostensibly) the flexibility of not needing to retool between print runs. (The actual advantage is that, on paper, it's cheap af.) You can't run out of anything because you're only ever a few hours from having anything in stock! So why aren't they doing that? Why completely focus production on one faction? It's a safe bet that the other factions are getting resculpted and resliced to address some of the flaws. Someone probably noticed that anti-aliasing exists, and maybe they're redoing supports and orientation. It sounds like their European printers might be involved in this, since the contracted professional printer hopefully knows what they're doing better than the PP in-house amateurs. Iron Crowned posted:I still can't get over the squat everything strategy. There is literally no reason they couldn't have rolled at least some of the more common legacy models in with a disclaimer that new sculpts would be coming soon. The cynical answer is that to keep playing, you keep paying. For real, it almost looks like they don't have access to their old setup. Maybe they sold everything to buy a print farm.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 18:07 |
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moths posted:It's completely baffling, since the only imaginable advantage of switching to 3d print was (ostensibly) the flexibility of not needing to retool between print runs. I don't believe for a second that they have a professional printer on contract, honestly. The only reason the MonPoc kickstarter seems to be on track is because of Mythic.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 18:26 |
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quote:We are working with a UK-based 3D printing company that will be taking on a portion of our production to minimize the initial delay. In the future, they will supply our customers in the UK and EU, minimizing shipping time and expense and ensuring consistent availability of product to the UK and EU. I read this again and you're right: This is all hope and best-case optimism. If they had a contracted partner, they wouldn't be in this mess. At least in Europe. E: they'd still be facing the problems of mass producing with 3D prints, and I wonder if that's leading professional 3d printers to balk or charge appropriate rates PP doesn't want to pay. moths fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Oct 18, 2022 |
# ? Oct 18, 2022 18:34 |
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moths posted:The cynical answer is that to keep playing, you keep paying. Again though that's solved by "we're currently not producing a model for the Firefly Warjack, but a new sculpt is slated for Q2 2023" would at least make the MKIV launch at least more interesting than Khador vs Khador forever.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 18:38 |
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The best explanation I’ve read is that this is a half-hearted attempt to juice their company and make it seem like they have an active, viable product, as a step towards being purchased by some larger company (Asmodee? Hasbro?). There’s no actual plan to make Mk 4 a viable, living game over the long term. They never really recovered from DC leaving - the wound just took a few years to bleed out.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 18:50 |
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The best explanation I’ve read is that this is a half-hearted attempt to juice their company and make it seem like they have an active, viable product, as a step towards being purchased by some larger company (Asmodee? Hasbro?). There’s no actual plan to make Mk 4 a viable, living game over the long term. If you believe the chatter, they were originally in talks to be bought by Asmodee and also to develop what is now Crisis Protocol. The brain drain of their viable design staff all to Atomic Mass does seem to indicate the latter. And yeah, Jason Soles is absolutely not a replacement for DC.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 19:21 |
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zerofiend posted:If you believe the chatter, they were originally in talks to be bought by Asmodee and also to develop what is now Crisis Protocol. The brain drain of their viable design staff all to Atomic Mass does seem to indicate the latter. The crisis protocol thing isn't a rumor, they had the license and just didn't really do much with it. There's even a thank you to Privateer Press in the core set rulebook for MCP
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 19:26 |
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Wow, did not realize that. MCP is a really good game, it's my current go-to for low-count playing and I've really been enjoying it.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 19:31 |
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The rumor is that all the people who were actively developing it jumped to their own studio and took the rules with them.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 23:27 |
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Almost my entire group that was into Warmachine switched to MCP in the last year. I swear listening to them chat about it is almost like hearing Warmachine chatter, but with a bizarro Marvel filter. Still, I don't understand this at all.
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# ? Oct 19, 2022 00:00 |
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Perhaps The Good Ending is Atomic Mass buys PP's IPs and does things properly
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# ? Oct 19, 2022 01:40 |
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PP's biggest barricade to success has been Matt and his wife for some time now imo. They're serious cheapskates.
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# ? Oct 19, 2022 03:07 |
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This has always been true, tbh. Matt's biggest goal in life is to be a Hollywood Guy and the art and miniatures were always a side gig. He doesn't give a poo poo, it's mostly a way to fund his hobby of making terrible movies.
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# ? Oct 19, 2022 03:32 |
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stabbington posted:This has always been true, tbh. Matt's biggest goal in life is to be a Hollywood Guy and the art and miniatures were always a side gig. He doesn't give a poo poo, it's mostly a way to fund his hobby of making terrible movies. Oh God, he's the Chris Roberts of tabletop gaming. Warmachine & Hordes Thread Mk4: Cyriss Citizen
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# ? Oct 19, 2022 06:05 |
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Nah, he used to give a poo poo at least. He intentionally built a game towards aping a competitive mtg style rules system on purpose because he used to play that competitively back in the day as well do some art. Although since mid-late Mk2 he doesn't seem to have been nearly as involved and things definitely changed.
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# ? Oct 20, 2022 08:30 |
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S.J. posted:Nah, he used to give a poo poo at least. He intentionally built a game towards aping a competitive mtg style rules system on purpose because he used to play that competitively back in the day as well do some art. Although since mid-late Mk2 he doesn't seem to have been nearly as involved and things definitely changed. I mean, the time he wasn't involved is arguably the healthiest time of the game. It was him stepping back in more actively that coincided with mk3's terrible launch and this current debacle
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# ? Oct 20, 2022 09:52 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 06:32 |
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Curious to see how divisive this sculpt will be. I hate it myself, along with the 'Irusk with a different hat' that they posted to the website. Aside from the ridiculous chariot I really do like the Stormguard though so I am rooting for them to get their poo poo together. E: now that I'm thinking about it, making half of your initial factions just resculpts of previous models was kinda dumb. smug jeebus fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Oct 21, 2022 |
# ? Oct 21, 2022 05:29 |