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Tomberforce posted:I pay about $140 Australian monthly for my Starlink. It is incomparably better than the old Sat internet connection. Life changing really. Just a shame I have to buy it from Elon. don't feel bad, to be profitable it'd have to be priced much higher so he's effectively subsidizing your link
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Oct 14, 2022 12:59
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Vesi posted:don't feel bad, to be profitable it'd have to be priced much higher so he's effectively subsidizing your link I think his hope is the Pentagon eventually will. Raising prices in the middle of a war to do that may not be that good of a strategy for that...
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Oct 14, 2022 13:04
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If Ukraine needs more anti-drone capability they should ask Australia for some drone-killing eagles eg https://youtu.be/Hr-xBtVU4lg
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Oct 14, 2022 13:15
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I would also assume the $5000/month option isn't just bandwidth based. Mobility terminals for satellite internet require more computing power because you're establishing a link with a moving target. Usually that's because for residential, you just park a beam over a highly populated area and let a lot of people use it. Over the ocean for maritime and aircraft with nobody else around, you got to move that beam with the target and swap them to another satellite/beam if they leave that area. You want as a narrow and accurate a beam as you can because you can't get enough beams to cover the whole ocean and if you do you're wasting a lot of potential bandwidth in the middle of nowhere. It seems like a huge reach to say every terminal in Ukraine requires that level of support because it is fundamentally not the same. I could see making that argument if Ukraine was previously not covered by Starlink (deemed economically important enough to have coverage at all) - but if you have a bunch of paying users I'm not sure why that would be the case.
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Oct 14, 2022 13:19
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Owling Howl posted:I don't know how much better yacht internet is? I would assume basic comms and sending images would overwhelmingly be the most important features - they don't need to stream 4K Netflix while playing Xbox in the trenches. The big difference between the expensive and the cheap subscription is that the cheap one requires a fixed service address which you have to tell SpaceX in advance, while the expensive lets you roam around freely. There are some added costs of roaming to SpaceX (again, the system is highly directional, so it always needs to know exactly where you are), but certainly not ~$5k per month.
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Oct 14, 2022 13:48
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Tuna-Fish posted:The big difference between the expensive and the cheap subscription is that the cheap one requires a fixed service address which you have to tell SpaceX in advance, while the expensive lets you roam around freely. He was paid to deploy the basic service I would suspect but from the last Twitter link it sounds like he pocketed the loving money as a grifter as usual. If he didn't deploy them, ahhahaha he pulled an AT&T. To act like there's a significant cost difference is to be fraudulent on it's own when the cost difference is literally a software checkbox. Musk is not full of good ideas, he's a Pete Thiel flunky who grifts all day. I could write endlessly on the amount of bad poo poo he's done to good and it's like 95:5 bad to good, he's as much a grifter as Trump. Can we please move on and ignore the loud idiot in the room? Musk isn't honestly consequential to the war and he's not going broke on Twitter acquisition from SpaceX. He's just a narcissistic child who is stressed and distracting with stupid poo poo. It just derails the thread.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:02
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https://ria.ru/20221014/mobilizatsiya-1824084115.html All measures for partial mobilization will be completed within two weeks, Vladimir Putin said, answering journalists' questions following his visit to Astana. The President said that 222,000 people out of the planned 300,000 had already been sent to the unit, and there were no proposals from the Ministry of Defense to increase the number of those mobilized.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:11
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Tuna-Fish posted:The big difference between the expensive and the cheap subscription is that the cheap one requires a fixed service address which you have to tell SpaceX in advance, while the expensive lets you roam around freely. So this guy is saying this thing https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827200634646528?t=ohSYPlp2_SeQz_tTa2__3Q&s=19 I assume that means you pay the $60 subscription fee + $50 so you can pick it up and plunk it down in the latest village Russia retreated from. Unless portability means something else? Yacht internet must be so you can sail/drive/fly around with it and stay connected. Certainly good and useful but perhaps also not something every unit should have an expectation of. Unless Ukraine have become accustomed to organizing their offensives in FB groups and on TikTok instead of with radios.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:14
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https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1580906178665582595 I'd love to know why Elon is determined to make himself look like an idiot baby here when apparently this isn't what's happening
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Oct 14, 2022 14:20
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Chalks posted:https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1580906178665582595 He whined his way through buying Twitter and he's trying a new thing now.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:25
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Tuna-Fish posted:There are some added costs of roaming to SpaceX (again, the system is highly directional, so it always needs to know exactly where you are), but certainly not ~$5k per month. You would absolutely be surprised at how much even an hour of satellite can cost for a mobile target. I've seen charges of $80/hr for an aircraft (different satellite different time granted) for example. You're basically asking for a beam that could service a lot of people for your personal use. Starlink is different because obviously its a giant network of satellites so some from of tracking costs are baked in, but fundamentally it's a lot of extra work.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:38
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Nenonen posted:Ah yes, just capture the victory flag and the garrison will automatically capitulate. Bing bang bong. The Israeli twitter thread earlier mentioned forward elements of Ukrainian forces would raise flags and take propaganda pics so that Russians would think the situation was even more lopsided than it really was, to encourage routs.
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Oct 14, 2022 14:49
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According to War Mapper, the Ukrainians continued their advance northwest of Svatove yesterday, capturing the villages of Pishchane and Berestove: Meanwhile, south of Bakhmut the Russians are reported to have captured Zaitseve completely.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:00
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I hate that Musk is relevant to this situation, or that he's relevant because he's having a public tanty, but him playing it out this way might mean a lot in terms of "hm sounds like starlink should be a national asset"
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Oct 14, 2022 15:10
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Staluigi posted:I hate that Musk is relevant to this situation, or that he's relevant because he's having a public tanty, but him playing it out this way might mean a lot in terms of "hm sounds like starlink should be a national asset" I am sure there are many countries that will be excited to hear that those low flying objects in their space will now be classified as national assets of the US military
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Oct 14, 2022 15:33
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Charlotte Hornets posted:https://ria.ru/20221014/mobilizatsiya-1824084115.html He also said this. Looks like he's trying to pull his old trick of positioning himself as a moderate voice of reason amenable to compromise despite the fact that his opening position is going to be completely unpalatable to Ukraine (acknowledging the annexation of Donbass is a non-starter). Which I guess is basically doubling down on the talking point that it was the Ukrainians who completely unreasonably abandoned the diplomatic track despite the progress supposedly made during the Istanbul negotiations. Doubt anyone is going to bite. https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1580918003608100864?s=20&t=8vxa40gnPQ_DFg5Z4hjRjQ https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1580886171739381762?s=20&t=xgMinf_ab_sl06Zg01K4Wg
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Oct 14, 2022 15:37
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BabyFur Denny posted:I am sure there are many countries that will be excited to hear that those low flying objects in their space will now be classified as national assets of the US military I am sure that many countries are more informed than you and realize that the US military already has access to those assets.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:41
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PerilPastry posted:He also said this. Looks like he's trying to pull his old trick of positioning himself as a moderate voice of reason amenable to compromise despite the fact that his opening position is going to be completely unpalatable to Ukraine (acknowledging the annexation of Donbass is a non-starter). Which I guess is basically doubling down on the talking point that it was the Ukrainians who completely unreasonably abandoned the diplomatic track despite the progress supposedly made during the Istanbul negotiations. Doubt anyone is going to bite. Putin has very little to offer other than further increasing the suffer on Ukraine and his own people, him and his regime are no better than a hostage taker in regards to how well his demands will be met.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:53
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PerilPastry posted:https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1580886171739381762?s=20&t=xgMinf_ab_sl06Zg01K4Wg
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Oct 14, 2022 15:54
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Irony Be My Shield posted:drat what a magnanimous gesture. Definitely in no way a retreat forced by Ukrainian territorial gains. They pulled this back in the Spring where the rout from the Kyiv approaches was sold by Russia as a magnanimous withdrawal to facilitate negotiations.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:55
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WarpedLichen posted:I would also assume the $5000/month option isn't just bandwidth based. Mobility terminals for satellite internet require more computing power because you're establishing a link with a moving target. Usually that's because for residential, you just park a beam over a highly populated area and let a lot of people use it. Over the ocean for maritime and aircraft with nobody else around, you got to move that beam with the target and swap them to another satellite/beam if they leave that area. You want as a narrow and accurate a beam as you can because you can't get enough beams to cover the whole ocean and if you do you're wasting a lot of potential bandwidth in the middle of nowhere. Starlink reverses the relationship. The sats are constantly moving and swapping you anyway, and so a setup that's not moving on ocean scales shouldn't add too much load. Keeping a beam on something moving 30 knots in a great circle is a bit tough. For a post that move 20 miles every few weeks and isn't on when moving your just trying to pull a rippoff job.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:56
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Musk is just trying to get in on the war profiteering, a time honored tradition for industrialist shitheels. Usually the Pentagon doesn't mind a bit of grift, but his mistake may be that he's doing it in public, which the Pentagon tends not to like. Either way I wouldn't worry about him going through with the threat of shutting off service in Ukraine, the PR blowback would be severe.
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Oct 14, 2022 16:07
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notwithoutmyanus posted:He was paid to deploy the basic service I would suspect but from the last Twitter link it sounds like he pocketed the loving money as a grifter as usual. If he didn't deploy them, ahhahaha he pulled an AT&T. I don't understand what you are claiming here. To be clear, Starlink is currently available in Ukraine. USAID paid for 1330 terminals. The company rounded that up to 5000 at their own expense and USAID shipped those to Ukraine. All of those 5000 terminals have been operating for free since then. In addition to that, a lot of volunteers are purchasing Starlink terminals in Europe and shipping those to Ukraine. I think those require paying for the normal subscription to operate. So SpaceX provided a lot more than the service that was originally paid for. It's just that now they want to start getting paid for it. They probably will be, but not the full $5000 per terminal gucci subscription that they are quoting in these tweets. This is just stupid price negotiation on twitter. Owling Howl posted:So this guy is saying this thing Correct, as I understand it the portability charge allows you to change your service location often, but does not allow you to maintain connection to a moving vehicle.
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Oct 14, 2022 16:15
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Tuna-Fish posted:Correct, as I understand it the portability charge allows you to change your service location often, but does not allow you to maintain connection to a moving vehicle. I gathered from an IT thread that Portability disables a check that requires the Starlink to be within XXX feet of the billing address. So if you purchase a Starlink at company HQ, and then deploy it at a remote office, you need portability.
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Oct 14, 2022 16:34
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Atmosphere at Astana seems to be pretty anxious At the summit of the CIS Council of Heads of State, Emomali Rahmon personally addressed the President of Russia. He stated that Tajikistan has always treated the Russian Federation with respect, which he called Tajikistan’s main strategic partner, but demanded a symmetrical attitude towards his country. "Where and what have we violated? Where and with whom did we say hello the wrong way? They greeted each other and never violated anything. We have always respected the interests of our main strategic partner, but we want to be respected as well. Are we some kind of foreigners on a par with African countries?" Tokayev, as chairman, interrupted Rahmon and asked him to summarize his speech. The President of Tajikistan finished emotionally: "I just want to ask that there be no policy towards the countries of Central Asia as the former Soviet Union. Each country has its own problems, its own questions, its own traditions and customs. We need to find a middle ground and work with each of the republics separately."
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Oct 14, 2022 16:50
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https://mobile.twitter.com/notabanderite/status/1580940936506273793
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Oct 14, 2022 16:54
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Enjoy posted:The Israeli twitter thread earlier mentioned forward elements of Ukrainian forces would raise flags and take propaganda pics so that Russians would think the situation was even more lopsided than it really was, to encourage routs. If true, that's a brilliant way to fight the Russian army. Their people are used to being bombarded with bullshit, so when presented with evidence of enemy advances, they're going to assume the contradictory info they get from their superiors are bullshit as well. Alternatively, they've been conditioned to accept propaganda, so maybe the average Russian soldier is more prone to believe the Ukrainian propaganda pictures in the first place.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:27
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It’s winding down already, but I’d like to state explicitly that I would appreciate the Musk/Starlink conversation to conclude soon, in absence of new news. For the purposes of this call, Musk himself saying something doesn’t count as news, since the man is petty and running his mouth 24/7.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:30
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Question about the theoretical NATO response to a WMD attack that I've not seen answered: How do they deal with the fact that Russia's terror bombing missiles - and most likely any WMD they choose to use on Ukraine - are launched from within Russian airspace? They're not going to start shooting down Russian planes over Russia. If, and it’s a huge if, the Russian Federation uses actual WMDs in Ukraine, NATO will absolutely respond militarily. That response will absolutely not be confined to just Russian assets in and over Ukraine. Once WMDs are used by the Russian Federation there will be zero compunction at all about attacking targets in and over Russia.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:39
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I know you want it to wind down, but as we close off Elon-chat it's worth noting Ukraine's gov also sending clear 'don't yell at Elon' signals: https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1580945804193587200
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Oct 14, 2022 17:42
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Alchenar posted:I know you want it to wind down, but as we close off Elon-chat it's worth noting Ukraine's gov also sending clear 'don't yell at Elon' signals: I like the barb that implies that Elon only care about money and that he will get his drat money.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:49
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Apparently internet service at the front is very useful so that'll probably be a capability that will be pursued a lot more going forward. That and drones seems to be real paradigm shifts in this conflict.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:55
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ZombieLenin posted:If, and it’s a huge if, the Russian Federation uses actual WMDs in Ukraine, NATO will absolutely respond militarily. This conversation too.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:12
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Owling Howl posted:Apparently internet service at the front is very useful so that'll probably be a capability that will be pursued a lot more going forward. That and drones seems to be real paradigm shifts in this conflict. Yes, though it's not a paradigm shift. The US Army had Internet access at the battalion/squadron level in 2003. By late 2003 we had pushed it down to the company/troop/battery level in some places. And that was without mobile phone infrastructure. Bandwidth has certainly increased since then--as have the demands placed upon it with things such as real-time streaming video--but I doubt the US military was alone in pushing networks to front-line units in the past 20 years.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:22
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Dick Ripple posted:I would not say they 'created' a new method, as cutting off your enemy from reinforcement/supply is not exactly cutting edge. They do have the 'luxury' of fighting on their own turf in that they do not have to commit so many resources to secure and control their supply lines. And if your enemy is not motivated/trained enough to fight after being cut off it makes it all the more simple. While I'm not sure Ukraine is "creating" a new kind of war fighting they are definitely fighting in a way that the US Marine corps envisions itself fighting in the near future and has redesigned their whole doctrine around. It's known as "Force Design 2030" and I believe they adopted it in 2020. The concept is designed around fighting in smaller units with more independent decision making instead of a top down approach (which is how the Russians operate). It also involves a lot of things like light vehicles for faster maneuverability, lots of drone recon, and long range precision weaponry all within a contested airspace. The idea being that peer rival countries like Russia and especially China would be the most likely foe the Marines would face in the future. This is all sounds pretty familiar right? Because that's the way Ukraine has been fighting. So the general that created Force Design 2030 initially received a lot of pushback because it made some controversial changes to the Marine Corps like getting rid of all their tanks but now that the concept has essentially been put into practice in Ukraine he's been vindicated to quite a degree.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:45
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It’s winding down already, but I’d like to state explicitly that I would appreciate the Musk/Starlink conversation to conclude soon, in absence of new news. For the purposes of this call, Musk himself saying something doesn’t count as news, since the man is petty and running his mouth 24/7. Before it ends, one thing I've been wondering, and unable to find discussion of it, is what the problem is with having legit referenda in the occupied territory other than Crimea. Is it because there's a pro-Russia lean in the citizens who haven't fled, so it wouldn't reflect the will of those who actually live there normally? Or fears that occupiers would find a way to take part?
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Oct 14, 2022 18:48
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I am not sure how much of light vehicles stuff on part of Ukraine is strategy and how much is making do with insufficient availability of IFVs.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:49
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Ynglaur posted:Yes, though it's not a paradigm shift. The US Army had Internet access at the battalion/squadron level in 2003. By late 2003 we had pushed it down to the company/troop/battery level in some places. And that was without mobile phone infrastructure. Bandwidth has certainly increased since then--as have the demands placed upon it with things such as real-time streaming video--but I doubt the US military was alone in pushing networks to front-line units in the past 20 years. Yeah, the US also has other tactical links for sharing battlefield info from the front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Data_Link So I'm not 100% sure what the benefit of having the internet in particular is besides being able to shitpost.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:51
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Koos Group posted:Before it ends, one thing I've been wondering, and unable to find discussion of it, is what the problem is with having legit referenda in the occupied territory other than Crimea. Is it because there's a pro-Russia lean in the citizens who haven't fled, so it wouldn't reflect the will of those who actually live there normally? Or fears that occupiers would find a way to take part? The war is currently active in the occupied territories, so how do you have elections where there is heavy fighting?
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Oct 14, 2022 18:52
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plogo posted:The war is currently active in the occupied territories, so how do you have elections where there is heavy fighting? I assume in this hypothetical there would be an armistice.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:59
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