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Sapozhnik posted:Even that doesn't make sense because those cutscenes show them driving around in their living Morgana van which prolapses its anus to catch the squad tumbling out of the dungeon at the end of the mission. Unless they originally said eh screw it, persona powers and other paranormal poo poo work in the real world now. There's a lot of stuff in unused stuff in the actual game itself which imply that that was the case; there's multiple unused cutscenes around Kamoshida which has actions in the metaverse directly affect stuff in the actual school (like ryuji's bag being found in a vent in the real world while they're in the metaverse, or scenes of the metaverse being directly overlaid over the real world and transitioning between them like how they initially enter an area) that imply that originally the metaverse and the real world were just very thinly laid over one another and directly affected eachother rather than the metaverse being a mostly mental space.
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Oct 12, 2022 13:35
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Hi thread, I have only played one Persona/SMT game: Persona 4 Golden, because it was on Steam and it was highly reviewed. It was great! I really liked it! And I have been waiting for Persona 5 Royal to release on Steam and it seems like that is only a few days away. From those of you in the thread who played Persona 4 Golden on PC when it first came out: was it buggy on release? Did it need a few patches before getting rid of some nasty crashes/unplayable bugs? Or was it basically in a good state on day 1/after one patch?
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Oct 14, 2022 23:15
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The only thing that comes to mind immediately is that P4G was borked on Steam Deck for a while (something to do with the animated videos), but they seem to have fixed that.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:22
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trapped mouse posted:Hi thread, I have only played one Persona/SMT game: Persona 4 Golden, because it was on Steam and it was highly reviewed. It was great! I really liked it! And I have been waiting for Persona 5 Royal to release on Steam and it seems like that is only a few days away. Personally it was fine. I believed there were some people who had issues, but I am unsure how prevalent those issues were. The game did get patched, but given the "online" component of the game, seems like there was a lot of people able to play.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:57
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The animated videos were the main offenders for causing problems for P4G on PC. I had heard they had fixed the issues behind that, though I haven't played in a while.
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Oct 15, 2022 01:08
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girl dick energy posted:if i was about to die, i would simply challenge death to a game of who can beat persona 5 first and then run away while hes playing a 100 hour jrpg The speed run WR for P5R is around 14 hours.
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Oct 15, 2022 02:32
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my favorite deranged speedrun is Crash Bandicoot 4 106% which if you've tried to complete Crash 4 is as painful as it sounds. I think it's at 7.5 hours
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Oct 15, 2022 02:34
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AlternateNu posted:The speed run WR for P5R is around 14 hours. That is why you make sure it is 100% completion race.
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Oct 15, 2022 02:50
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neonchameleon posted:Persona 4 was clearly written by a conservative whose underlying moral of all the character arcs was "stay in your place" with all the character arcs except one being from unhappy in their appointed place to knuckling down and now being happy in their appointed place. (This of course is why Kanji and Naoto are so botched). Yeah, it's really bad. I think that P4 has some of the better non-party social links, but the party ones are all super bad. Not to say that the non-party ones are that great or anything, but P5's non-party social links are pretty boring. I remember at least thinking some P4 social links were kind of interesting, like the one with the brother of the murder victim, or the one with the old widow. The P5 ones are all just "gradual reveal that the character is being hosed over by someone + fixing it in Mementos and then being smug as the person reveals you are, in fact, A Phantom Thief." Neeksy posted:Persona 5 is one of those games where the person writing it has none of the depth required by the themes and ideas it attempts to grasp. I was kind of surprised at the extra arc in Royal actually doing a semi-decent job. It still has significant problems with its themes*, but the motives of the antagonist are at least interesting and very believable (which is really something P5 needed, given the key antagonists of the main arc are mostly just comically evil people). *Namely that Maruki isn't even remotely wrong, but is just doing what he's doing very stupidly. But I appreciate that it gives you the option of agreeing with him and doesn't outright say "you're wrong" (even if it's kind of heavily implied). It is kind of annoying seeing all these dumbass kids who have not even begun to live life trying to impart important life lessons to this adult, though. The only one of the phantom thieves who has suffered a truly life-shattering event is Kasumi. Maruki's general reasoning of "sometimes stuff happens that you can't full recover from (and if you could change it with magic it would be good to do so)" is basically correct.
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Oct 15, 2022 06:12
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Royale I think was the debut by whomever is doing Persona 6. My current thought is that the TMS team was split up and so now we have whomever made SH2 and the ones that did P5R.
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Oct 15, 2022 06:21
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I do like Zenkichi in Strikers only because he actually hates being a cop and when you have the Persona character who talks about justice and how they'll solve it by joining the police, he shuts that down.
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Oct 15, 2022 06:31
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Hunt11 posted:That is why you make sure it is 100% completion race. If it's true completionist (i.e. seeing all the cutscenes and get all the items), you would be challenging Death to 1200+ hour run.
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Oct 15, 2022 07:58
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Ytlaya posted:*Namely that Maruki isn't even remotely wrong, but is just doing what he's doing very stupidly. But I appreciate that it gives you the option of agreeing with him and doesn't outright say "you're wrong" (even if it's kind of heavily implied). I'd argue that Futaba, Haru and Ann have definitely experienced life-shattering events. And Maruki's general reasoning may be correct, but the way he goes about it is deeply flawed. With Kasumi especially, he doesn't help her or fix her situation with magic, he just feeds into her guilt and it's not much of an exageration to say he kills her in the name of fixing things.
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Oct 15, 2022 09:22
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Maruki is absolutely in the wrong but with good intentions. He is creating a weird nonsense world held together by magic and where he literally has to brainwash people to get them to go along He wants to help people but because he accidentally erased the love of his life's memory he *has* to be right about that being the right path or else he has to live with the guilt. The entire thing is him trying to create a world that makes him happy. Because he is a nice guy he does genuinely want everyone to be happy, but because he's hosed up his idea of 'happy' isn't necessarily good for them, it us about proving hinself right. That is why he didn't just bring Kasumi back to life because proving he was 'right' to erase her memory waa more important. Also like... Futaba, Haru, Yusuke and Makoto all lost their parents. Ann had the entire first case. Joker was falsely accused of a crime and sent away to live with a stranger. The least 'my life is horrible' of the lot is Ryuji who suffered a horrible debilitating injury that stopped him from pursuing his dream in life. Like poo poo before the Phantom Thieves got there Futaba was unable to function in the real world and was literally suicidal over the guilt she had because some total rear end in a top hat gaslit her into thinking she made her mother kill herself. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 10:14
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Ytlaya posted:The only one of the phantom thieves who has suffered a truly life-shattering event is Kasumi. 
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Oct 15, 2022 13:14
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Joker - framed for an assault that didn't happen, shipped off to live in some stranger's attic under threat of being sent to juvie if he steps an inch out of line Ryuji - father was extremely abusive, had his leg shattered beyond full repair by a teacher Ann - treated like a sex object by said teacher, saw her best friend take a swan dive off the school roof because of it Yusuke - ruthlessly exploited and neglected by the man who murdered his mother, has a minor meltdown when he learns the truth Makoto - dad got murdered by the mob, her sister is a terrible person who openly resents her existence Futaba - saw her mother drop dead right in front of her, got blamed for said death, was in the care of her piece of poo poo uncle who reinforced blaming her Haru - father arranged her marriage to a blatant scumbag, gets to see her father's brain melt out of his ears on national television Akechi - mom commits suicide, commits murders for his psychopath dad as some harebrained scheme to get revenge on the world in general and his father in particular, possibly dies a pig's death in Shido's palace
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Oct 15, 2022 18:10
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best part of a persona release is you get to read some of the stupidest media opinions imaginable, the really vintage stuff
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Oct 15, 2022 18:12
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Funky Valentine posted:Joker - framed for an assault that didn't happen, shipped off to live in some stranger's attic under threat of being sent to juvie if he steps an inch out of line Morgana is a goofy character but his experience objectively sucks too.
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Oct 15, 2022 18:23
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Oxxidation posted:best part of a persona release is you get to read some of the stupidest media opinions imaginable, the really vintage stuff Not even on release, there was some stirrup a few days back on Twitter going back to Persona 4 discourse, the usual "The game's not homo/transphobic! It's the people who headcanon characters that way who are just like the game villains!" and all that.
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Oct 15, 2022 18:28
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Not even on release, there was some stirrup a few days back on Twitter going back to Persona 4 discourse, the usual "The game's not homo/transphobic! It's the people who headcanon characters that way who are just like the game villains!" and all that. i do think that some of the bigger tweets did, kinda misread a few arcs in persona 4 despite having overall solid main theses but also i saw someone yelling about how "they had to Defend Atlus from the misinformation that persona 4 is homophobic on twitter!!!" thats been lodged into my brain and, lmao persona 4 and 5 both have similar writing issues but afaik 5 takes wayyyy more heat for it, personally hoping 6 is Good and not Bad
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Oct 15, 2022 23:06
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Booky posted:i do think that some of the bigger tweets did, kinda misread a few arcs in persona 4 despite having overall solid main theses but also i saw someone yelling about how "they had to Defend Atlus from the misinformation that persona 4 is homophobic on twitter!!!" thats been lodged into my brain and, lmao I did find one that fully explained for myself what's wrong with Kanji/Naoto's arc: the main message for Kanji is for example "you can like feminine things and not be less of a man or gay" but the game pretty much adds "and thank god because gays are disgusting". Or how Naoto's dungeon portrays becoming a man as using grizzly violent tools to get a half-inhuman robot body. Also people constantly defending Yosuke's homofobia by going "but the game shows him in the wrong!" and I'm like... no? He basically starts going "ewwww" every time it pops up, something wacky happens, laugh track. But he never develops on that and, while realistic to act in such a lovely teen way, he never gets punished for it, instead getting kicked by the girls for things that aren't always his fault anyways.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:17
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they should've kept the yosuke romance in, would've fixed everything
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Oct 15, 2022 23:18
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Booky posted:i do think that some of the bigger tweets did, kinda misread a few arcs in persona 4 despite having overall solid main theses but also i saw someone yelling about how "they had to Defend Atlus from the misinformation that persona 4 is homophobic on twitter!!!" thats been lodged into my brain and, lmao I think 5 took more heat for it because they had years inbetween to learn and didn't.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:19
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Oxxidation posted:best part of a persona release is you get to read some of the stupidest media opinions imaginable, the really vintage stuff 
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Oct 15, 2022 23:25
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With 5 the lesson they learned was “well if people are gonna complain about gay stuff we’ll just leave most of it out”. They had one reoccurring joke and one side character and the rest was straight as hell beyond a few gay panic jokes. No gay themes anywhere in the links or main story. Which I think is ironic because you’d think Tokyo in 2014 would be way gayer than a small Japanese town in the mid-2000s, but apparently the only gay people in Tokyo are all middle-aged.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:26
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Booky posted:i do think that some of the bigger tweets did, kinda misread a few arcs in persona 4 despite having overall solid main theses but also i saw someone yelling about how "they had to Defend Atlus from the misinformation that persona 4 is homophobic on twitter!!!" thats been lodged into my brain and, lmao Yeah, I'm not gonna defend Persona 4 from its general homophobia and sexism, but that 50 tweet thread was too incorrect on too many things for me. It's probably up to personal taste, but I think the reason why I find Persona 5's writing more damning (besides it no longer being 2008) is that the juxtaposition between the relatively well-done Kamoshida arc and the immediate sexualization of Ann once she's in your party is like, legitimately offputting, and that kind of sours the rest of it for me. Also yeah, totally agree that Yosuke's rampant homophobia is ridiculous and sucks rear end, but I heard there's a mod that restores his homosexuality and thank god for that.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:29
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there Was a pretty big tweet thread recently about p4 (which afaik was kicked off by snapcube going "man this part kinda stinks" at the bathhouse dungeon a while back) that imo had a super solid main start with how the overall writing of persona 4 is pretty conservative and has wayyy too many "full circle character arcs" but started making a handful of mistakes and then dragged on for like 35 tweets too long while the op started kind of Losing It partway through; then they ended it by yelling about how they played more megaten and persona than everyone else did and bragging about how they had a english degree and ????  Blue Labrador posted:Yeah, I'm not gonna defend Persona 4 from its general homophobia and sexism, but that 50 tweet thread was too incorrect on too many things for me. i forgot where i first read it (probably on these forums), but it's been noted wrt p5 that despite the chars all ostensibly being about outcasts in society they're a part of like 0 actual minority groups in japan (besides ann, and then they just do the "sexy" stuff with her later), and u could probably extend that to persona 4 too and how everyone being their "true selfs" is a major part of the writing or smth
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Oct 15, 2022 23:47
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studio mujahideen posted:they should've kept the yosuke romance in, would've fixed everything 100%. Yosuke reads to me like a teenager reacting to internalized homophobia. But without any explicit confirmation that he’s struggling with coming to terms with his own sexuality in a homophobic world, he just comes off as a hateful little poo poo.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:52
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Yosuke sucks and every moment of Teddie and Chie ruining his life should be treasured.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:57
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Best Friends posted:100%. Yosuke reads to me like a teenager reacting to internalized homophobia. But without any explicit confirmation that he’s struggling with coming to terms with his own sexuality in a homophobic world, he just comes off as a hateful little poo poo. Oh yeah. Usually accussing the homophobic character of being gay feel wrong to me but Yosuke 100% reads like he's on denial. If romancing him made him drop the attitude they could have even added more slurs, would have been great character interaction. Booky posted:there Was a pretty big tweet thread recently about p4 Yeah, that's the one I took the conclusion from, I just ignored everything after a point because the author went into the drain. Granted, the Persona white knights were going "obviously you didn't even comprehend the game" so it was a shitshow all around.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:57
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Booky posted:p5 that despite the chars all ostensibly being about outcasts in society they're a part of like 0 actual minority groups in japan I thought it was pretty clear Akechi was homisexual. As in homicide.  EDIT: I really hope the Yosuke Romance mod for steam isn't terrible. It sounds like they put a lot of work into it. tom bob-ombadil fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 00:01
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Persona 4 can be pretty homophobic and while Yosuke is often the vehicle for a lot of the games terrible gay jokes but its hard for me to pin that mostly on him and not on the game as a whole because the writers clearly thought all that poo poo is funny. Like, it's definitely a problem with Yosuke but that's just a symptom of the game's general attitude towards the subject. E: Anyway, I too hope that Persona 6 is more good than bad. And the P5 spinoffs (well re-release and spinoff) seem to have been pretty well regarded even by people not in to the original game so I think that's a solid sign imo.
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Oct 16, 2022 00:14
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gigantic tweet threads are bad as usual but people blowing up over some streamer not liking P4 was ridiculous. their read on kanji was probably off but their sentiment was ultimately just that they weren't feeling the game and were prob gonna drop it
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Oct 16, 2022 00:17
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Thankfully P6 will have a female protagonist trying to escape boarding school, have a great female cast and a gay priest antagonist so it will be much better.
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Oct 16, 2022 00:19
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studio mujahideen posted:they should've kept the yosuke romance in, would've fixed everything The very nature of the removal of the romance is emblematic of what is the issue
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Oct 16, 2022 01:04
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Booky posted:i forgot where i first read it (probably on these forums), but it's been noted wrt p5 that despite the chars all ostensibly being about outcasts in society they're a part of like 0 actual minority groups in japan (besides ann, and then they just do the "sexy" stuff with her later), and u could probably extend that to persona 4 too and how everyone being their "true selfs" is a major part of the writing or smth Man they run out of story stuff for Ann and Ryuji super early on, don't they?
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Oct 16, 2022 01:06
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Dawgstar posted:Man they run out of story stuff for Ann and Ryuji super early on, don't they? Ryuji has a lot of stuff but it's pretty low-key stuff that boils down to "he starts getting a really big head and fucks poo poo up and regrets it and tries to change" and the stuff with his leg which pays off during his big run near the end. Ann does more than Yusuke but that's about it. Makoto and Futaba basically take front and center and Haru is pretty important for the chunk of the game she is in. Edit: I genuinely forget that Yusuke is in the game sometimes. Strikers does a lot more with at least making him consistent comedy relief. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 01:13
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Ryuji calling the MC for a short chat after the Phantom Thieves get framed by the cops might genuinely be the best bit of character work in the game.
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Oct 16, 2022 01:27
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ImpAtom posted:Ryuji has a lot of stuff but it's pretty low-key stuff that boils down to "he starts getting a really big head and fucks poo poo up and regrets it and tries to change" and the stuff with his leg which pays off during his big run near the end. I remember Ryuji's whole "arc" being better than I remembered when I played Royal. He only gets really dumb for a relatively short period, and (as you mention) ends up acknowledging it and trying to change. I'd agree that Yusuke and Ann are the least utilized characters. Yusuke in particular suffers from usually being a comedy relief. Cloacamazing! posted:I'd argue that Futaba, Haru and Ann have definitely experienced life-shattering events. And Maruki's general reasoning may be correct, but the way he goes about it is deeply flawed. With Kasumi especially, he doesn't help her or fix her situation with magic, he just feeds into her guilt and it's not much of an exageration to say he kills her in the name of fixing things. I agree entirely about Maruki's "solution" being stupid and unhelpful. A more reasonable application of the power would be to address issues like poverty/hunger, which would presumably be possible if he can bring back the dead (and I kind of wonder if the game acknowedges this huge deficiency through having homeless people continue to exist under Maruki's world). But Maruki's own approach makes sense given Maruki's personal issues/traumas. When he rewrote his girlfriend's mind (or wife, forget if they were married) and became a stranger to her as a result, he basically decided to double-down on that specific sort of cognitive manipulation to "prove that losing her was worth it" (and this manifests in the final area of his palace). It makes him a pretty compelling villain IMO. Regarding "lift-shattering events," I mean "the sort of thing a person couldn't reasonably be expected to recover from, given time and treatment." Stuff like "loss of a parent" or "a teacher sexually harassing you" are definitely mental trauma, but the sort of trauma where treatment is reasonably possible (and in the case of the latter, IIRC things never reached the point they did with Shiho, with Ann managing to successfully reject Kamoshida's "advances" up until the events of the game). "Having your close sister who you admire die because of your own actions," on the other hand, is the sort of thing that a person could very reasonably never recover from. That's the sort of mental trauma that most people will fortunately never have to experience. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 01:27
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The game doesn't know what to do with Yusuke overall. I really wanted to engage with his character more, but they mostly just make him the comic relief with jokes about his abject poverty and his love of aesthetics. Also Yusuke finding out he was being raised by his mother's killer and now literally has no parental figures at all is something quite, uh, lifeshattering?
Neeksy fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 01:30
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