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Black Lighter posted:I agree that he's regressed, but I still think his flaws are being exacerbated by the scheme. How many times this year has he had to run or dance around in the pocket just because no one was open? It's an offense that currently just doesn't function unless he's buying time or making plays with his legs, and that makes it a lot easier for him to regress.
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Oct 17, 2022 17:30
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Woozie66 posted:But did they sell it as a contender without that QB? Plus, going 2-3 still puts them at 4-6, which is spitting distance in a dogshit division. The way I saw it being sold was that they were a QB away and this was what they needed to do because they are in a window and couldn't wait or go for a stopgap solution like Jimmy G or rolling the dice in the draft. The team directly didn't sell it this way, they focused on Watson's value alone, but media mouthpieces did and it's the way every person I saw who defended this move justified it that way. Basically the sell was this team was a QB away, but a team that's just a QB away is usually mediocre without a QB, not a bottom 5 trash fire. 2-3 puts them at 4-7. Watson would need to win four of their last 6 for them to be competitive. He won't. They'll probably win 2 of those last 6, if that. I think the question with the coaching staff isn't if, but when. Then when that inevitably doesn't work out Jimmy burns down the front office too.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:06
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Simplex posted:I don't know. I've become pretty convinced that most of the time when you see this it's because the quarterback is bad in the pocket. They aren't making their reads and they have no idea where the pressure is coming from. The actual instances where nobody was open, or the line got beat happen, but they are much rarer than the QB hosed it. I think you only have to go back to the game against the Raiders to show how bad the receiving situation is, tho. There were multiple instances where Kyler dropped back, stayed back there a good amount of time and then had to run with it because nobody got open. You can't run this kind of system when Hollywood Brown's your only legitimate threat at wideout, but Kingsbury seems incapable of tweaking his gameplan to adjust, and I think a lot of Kyler's regression is him just trying to make something happen in a structure that doesn't currently make a ton of sense.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:03
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Simplex posted:I don't know. I've become pretty convinced that most of the time when you see this it's because the quarterback is bad in the pocket. They aren't making their reads and they have no idea where the pressure is coming from. The actual instances where nobody was open, or the line got beat happen, but they are much rarer than the QB hosed it. A lot of it is this, Kyler bails on so many clean pockets it's insane. He just doesn't see his first read come open and decides to play hero ball despite being under no pressure and scrambles around. His OL must hate him.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:17
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Black Lighter posted:I think you only have to go back to the game against the Raiders to show how bad the receiving situation is, tho. There were multiple instances where Kyler dropped back, stayed back there a good amount of time and then had to run with it because nobody got open. You can't run this kind of system when Hollywood Brown's your only legitimate threat at wideout, but Kingsbury seems incapable of tweaking his gameplan to adjust, and I think a lot of Kyler's regression is him just trying to make something happen in a structure that doesn't currently make a ton of sense. Simplex posted:I don't know. I've become pretty convinced that most of the time when you see this it's because the quarterback is bad in the pocket. They aren't making their reads and they have no idea where the pressure is coming from. The actual instances where nobody was open, or the line got beat happen, but they are much rarer than the QB hosed it. well they play thursday night this week and amazon has the all-22 up so we this is a question we can start to answer
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Oct 17, 2022 19:22
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Relentlessboredomm posted:well they play thursday night this week and amazon has the all-22 up so we this is a question we can start to answer lol, true, and it's TNF so there'll be plenty of bad plays to dissect
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Oct 17, 2022 19:31
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Chris James 2 posted:https://twitter.com/marlon_humphrey/status/1581767065093885952?s=20&t=A-ghXtfmm1Vhms4eWqM4ZQ I still think he's only warm if/when they miss the playoffs this year but he may have to sacrifice Roman mid season or in the offseason
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Oct 17, 2022 19:36
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The 3rd quarter 4th and 2 is a pretty clear example of what I'm getting at. Seattle has a single safety high with man coverage underneath. They try to run a simple pick play with Brown and Ertz, but Ertz can't beat his man even with the pick and Kyler comes off of it. But he doesn't recognize that Seattle has blown their coverage. One of the defenders switched and the other didn't, so Ertz is double covered but nobody is covering Brown. Which okay, fine is 4th and 2 and he had to make a decision quick and came off the read a tad too soon. poo poo happens. Which is where the second problem is. Because Seattle didn't have a single pass rusher between the hashes. Their two interior rushers are lying on the ground, and all of the pressure is coming wide from the backside. You could drive a good-sized pickup truck through the hole in the middle of the field, and if he does he probably sees a wide open Brown crossing the field, or he can just go get 2 yards himself. Instead he tries to escape out the back of the pocket and break contain. When he can't, he just chucks the ball downfield. Turnover on downs.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:41
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seriously how long does hackett last
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Oct 18, 2022 04:48
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A big flaming stink posted:seriously how long does hackett last I don't think he's going to get fired during the year. If Meyer last year could make it 13 games or whatever, Hackett, while comically inept, should get a full season. But then again, it's a new ownership group who didn't hire him (though they did give Russ $160 million guaranteed lmfao), so maybe that makes an in-season firing more likely. In any event, I think he's almost certainly toast after the season.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:50
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A big flaming stink posted:seriously how long does hackett last He didn't do anything too terrible tonight, Staley was much more frustrating from a clock management standpoint. But that offense just doesn't work, part of it is Russ being cooked sure, but even aside from that I don't think that works with your average QB. Like plays just seem badly designed.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:52
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denver continues to look sloppy, unprepared, and incapable of executing on offense so yea maybe fire the guy i just want to point out that we've seen some really crafty coaching lately. The Eagles, Jets, Giants, and Falcons have all dramatically altered their offenses to match their talent. Eagles have a ton of talent top to bottom but still seeing them totally adjust the offense around Hurts capabilities is incredible. The Giants and Falcons have been torn down to the studs but they consistently field fun, weird, mildly effective offenses bc the coaches recognize what they have to work with and they adapt around that talent. Meanwhile you have Hackett and to a lesser extent Eberflus running teams with some obvious talent that they fundamentally refuse to gameplan around or adapt to, instead forcing them into stilted schemes that straight up are not working. Eberflus is upsetting bc they could be doing very similar things on offense as Philly and they just loving refuse. Hackett is mind boggling bc they don't seem to have any identity even if its poorly matched to the talent. They're just floating from one poorly called play to another with no rhythm or point to it.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:59
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Meanwhile you have Hackett and to a lesser extent Eberflus running teams with some obvious talent that they fundamentally refuse to gameplan around or adapt to Do the Broncos actually have talent on offense? Sutton is good but not elite. Jeudy sucks, can’t catch, doesn’t even know where he’s supposed to be. Hamler is just some dude. They traded their decent tight end for Russ who is probably the biggest issue because he just flat out cannot throw the football 75% of the time. Hackett sure isn’t doing them any favors but just on a play by play, individual effort basis they look lovely.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:07
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syzpid posted:Im going to lean more towards blaming the Coach who got fired from his NCAA head coaching gig, couldn't get another HC position on the college level, and yet somehow ended up an NFL head coach. Kingsbury has been in over his head the whole time. Also who has literally never, not ONCE, completed a season of football without going on a hideous skid to end the year. Not just with the Cards, but at his college level position too. Kingsbury is completely untrustworthy and they really need to jettison him before he scotches Kyler. Relentlessboredomm posted:i just want to point out that we've seen some really crafty coaching lately. The Eagles, Jets, Giants, and Falcons have all dramatically altered their offenses to match their talent. Eagles have a ton of talent top to bottom but still seeing them totally adjust the offense around Hurts capabilities is incredible. The Giants and Falcons have been torn down to the studs but they consistently field fun, weird, mildly effective offenses bc the coaches recognize what they have to work with and they adapt around that talent. Hell, look at the Vikings if you want another comparison. The Vikes have not won pretty for a month straight, non-stop close games nearly blown at the end... but they keep winning them. Kevin o'Connell is getting a lot more out of the team than Zimmer was at the end, even if it's still definitely less than I think it should be and less than they're really capable of. That was my expectation for the year, so I'll take it. Last year we would have lost all of those games and be 1-5 going into the bye instead of 5-1. The Vikings are putting out what I'd consider a more than reasonable performance for a first-year coach, given the Ur-Average QB in Kirk Cousins and the potency of the offensive showcase. They're keeping it together, getting production out of the team, winning football games. It's not pretty yet, but it's progress. Eberflus inherited a completely hosed Bears situation, so even though he's clearly doing a worse job than KOC, it's harder for me to criticize him as comprehensively. Hackett is just fuckin' baffling. The Broncos had an EXCEPTIONAL defense last year and not a whole lot of that changed on the surface. Yet the games don't feel like they're low-scoring because of excellent Broncos defensive efforts, it's instead like the Broncos offense is SO BAD that it exudes radiation that poisons the other team's offense and drags it down towards them. That should not be the case with a QB as capable as Russell Wilson is, or was -- this horrific year aside, he was ABSOLUTELY better than this in the past and for him to look this trash suggests more than just his own skills falling off. Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 05:08
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Do the Broncos actually have talent on offense? Sutton is good but not elite. Jeudy sucks, can’t catch, doesn’t even know where he’s supposed to be. Hamler is just some dude. They traded their decent tight end for Russ who is probably the biggest issue because he just flat out cannot throw the football 75% of the time. do they have more talent than the giants? the falcons? it looks to me like they do which then raises questions about why they're so incompetent
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Oct 18, 2022 05:13
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Do the Broncos actually have talent on offense? Sutton is good but not elite. Jeudy sucks, can’t catch, doesn’t even know where he’s supposed to be. Hamler is just some dude. They traded their decent tight end for Russ who is probably the biggest issue because he just flat out cannot throw the football 75% of the time. Sutton is good and Patrick is pretty decent. The OL took a large step back once they started calling Bolles for holding again and the running game is rear end without Williams.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:15
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Relentlessboredomm posted:do they have more talent than the giants? the falcons? I don’t think so. The Falcons have Drake London and Kyle Pitts who are both better than anyone on the Broncos offense. The Giants have Barkley, who is maybe the best in the league at his position, and run their offense through him. And I’d take Mariota or Jones over this version of Russ who is somehow slower, less decisive, and less accurate than both of those guys. Those teams are getting better coaching too, but I think you’re overacting the Broncos talent by quite a bit.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:21
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I don’t think so. idk that I am. the giants have arguably the least talented team in the league. Im not saying the broncos are world beaters but they have actual WRs which is a step up from the giants. They might only be 20% better than the giants talent wise but goddamn the coaching difference is huge.
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Oct 18, 2022 06:32
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Redeye Flight posted:The Broncos had an EXCEPTIONAL defense last year and not a whole lot of that changed on the surface. Yet the games don't feel like they're low-scoring because of excellent Broncos defensive efforts, it's instead like the Broncos offense is SO BAD that it exudes radiation that poisons the other team's offense and drags it down towards them. That should not be the case with a QB as capable as Russell Wilson is, or was -- this horrific year aside, he was ABSOLUTELY better than this in the past and for him to look this trash suggests more than just his own skills falling off. Russ aside, the '22 Broncos feel a lot like the '21 Panthers: a great defense that cannot overcome just how putrid the rest of the team is around it. It doesn't matter how good an unit is if the rest of the team and coaching staff is constantly setting it up for failure. I do agree with your take on Russ, though: the wheels might be falling off, but there were still moments where he was moving the team down the field only for SOMETHING to happen that just would kill the drive. Lot of that was on him, but lot of that was also on the rest of the offense just making horrible mistakes
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Oct 18, 2022 11:48
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Do the Broncos actually have talent on offense? Sutton is good but not elite. Jeudy sucks, can’t catch, doesn’t even know where he’s supposed to be. Hamler is just some dude. They traded their decent tight end for Russ who is probably the biggest issue because he just flat out cannot throw the football 75% of the time. The "just plug in a QB!" narrative around the Bronco's has always seemed really strange to me. Who would you take their receiving group over just in the AFC West? I think you take Adams/Renfrow/Waller and Allen/Williams/Everett any day of the week. Maybe you can make an argument for Sutton/Jeudy > Juju/MVS? But the Chiefs have Andy Reid calling plays for Mahomes and Kelce, so it doesn't matter. What are they supposed to be plugging a QB in to achieve with this group? To maybe finish above the Raiders?
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Oct 18, 2022 13:21
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Give Mahomes Sutton and Jeudy and he hits 50 a game every game
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Oct 18, 2022 14:07
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I'm beginning to come around to the idea that Russ may have permanently hosed his throwing mechanics last year too. He started to look "back" at the end of the season but his deep balls have been uncharacteristically awful this year. He had a terrible underthrow last night that was caught because the receiver was wide open. Even in week one the sole deep shot he hit against Seattle was an underthrow that Jeudy just went back and won. I wonder if the perfect arc moonball is gone for good. As much as it benefits my team, that's a sad prospect. There aren't many prettier plays in football. But in any case I agree that the offense has zero cohesion. It's tough to tell what the vision for it is. Hackett is just awful.
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Oct 18, 2022 15:31
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The broncos also got rid of one of the best OL coaches and well
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Oct 18, 2022 17:10
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I think the future looks terrific for the Falcons. The coach looks like they know what they are doing. They will have a decent pick position this draft. Next year the will have London Pitts and Ridley. If Atlanta hits on a qb this offseason then I can see them being real good in 2024.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:11
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Ornery and Hornery posted:I think the future looks terrific for the Falcons. The coach looks like they know what they are doing. They will have a decent pick position this draft. Next year the will have London Pitts and Ridley. The Ridley suspension is technically indefinite Rog gonna put his foot down
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Oct 18, 2022 17:40
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RIP Ridley, should have done something less egregious but his crime was the unholiest in the eyes of our league
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Oct 18, 2022 17:42
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Ornery and Hornery posted:If Atlanta hits on a qb this offseason then I can see them being real good in 2024. They drafted Ridder earlier this year. I don’t think they’re going to have a high enough pick to take one of the top guys so I assume they’ll be rolling with him next year if they want to move away from Mariota.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:43
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I havent done a deep dive on it but I feel like Tannehill has taken a bit of a step back since Arthur Smith took the Atlanta job, so I have to wonder if Arthur was the key cog in Tannehill being really good for his first few seasons in Tennessee? If so I wonder what kind of work he'll be able to do with Ridder.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:52
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Ornery and Hornery posted:RIP Ridley, should have done something less egregious but his crime was the unholiest in the eyes of our league Yep. Now don't forget to bet on the games through official NFL partner SportsBook!
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Oct 18, 2022 17:59
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They drafted Ridder earlier this year. I don’t think they’re going to have a high enough pick to take one of the top guys so I assume they’ll be rolling with him next year if they want to move away from Mariota. I think they could do some fun things with Ridder and hope he starts at some point this year.
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Oct 18, 2022 18:28
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Pron on VHS posted:Give Mahomes Sutton and Jeudy and he hits 50 a game every game 50 what?
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Oct 18, 2022 18:28
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Drops
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Oct 18, 2022 18:40
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I havent done a deep dive on it but I feel like Tannehill has taken a bit of a step back since Arthur Smith took the Atlanta job, so I have to wonder if Arthur was the key cog in Tannehill being really good for his first few seasons in Tennessee? If so I wonder what kind of work he'll be able to do with Ridder. A lot of that is due to not having AJ Brown and Julio Jones for parts of 2021, and the O-Line becoming garbage this year. That said, Tannehill's still fine and not close to the main issue with the current Tits offense, but a large part is that our current OC is also bad while Smith was a big reason the Titans took a step forward on offense (though Tannehill being more aggressive than Mariota and having AJ Brown helped a ton). Arthur Smith seems to be figuring things out and has the Falcons playing well. Mariota seems like a slightly improved version of his Tennessee self, and he has good weapons to work with and a good defense to help him out. No clue how Ridder will do but I think if he has talent Smith is one of the better coaches to bring it out of him.
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Oct 18, 2022 19:39
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Mega64 posted:A lot of that is due to not having AJ Brown and Julio Jones for parts of 2021, and the O-Line becoming garbage this year. That said, Tannehill's still fine and not close to the main issue with the current Tits offense, but a large part is that our current OC is also bad while Smith was a big reason the Titans took a step forward on offense (though Tannehill being more aggressive than Mariota and having AJ Brown helped a ton).
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Oct 18, 2022 20:31
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Yeah Smith has done a bang up job. Excited to see what he does when he gets Patterson back and what he does next year with a new qb (or possibly what he magically turns Ridder into).
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Oct 18, 2022 21:00
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Hah, wow, 4 of the top 8 highest cap hits on the Falcons this year are 1st round picks that are still on their rookie contracts. Matt Ryan is only a dead cap hit this year, for 40mil, and the Falcons have total dead cap of 77mil, cripes. They will have 60+mil in free cap space next year. I guess next year there will be some more pressure for Smith to be good rather than scrappy.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:06
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Hah, wow, 4 of the top 8 highest cap hits on the Falcons this year are 1st round picks that are still on their rookie contracts. Matt Ryan is only a dead cap hit this year, for 40mil, and have a total dead cap hit of 77mil, cripes. They will have 60+mil in free cap space next year. I guess next year there will be some more pressure for Smith to be good rather than scrappy. They really lucked out with Cleveland going full moron mode with Watson.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:08
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I really want Shane Steichen to be the Panthers head coach next year.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:50
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Get your grabby hands off my OC
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Oct 18, 2022 23:56
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shyduck posted:Get your grabby hands off my OC But we neeeeeeed him.
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Oct 19, 2022 00:16
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