Alex Jones: A Sloppy, Disrespectful Mess

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Alex Jones: A Sloppy, Disrespectful Mess

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

GoingPostal posted:

I don't know, calling people demonic hell-gremins has always worked well for me in getting people to give me a second chance.

O so Susan wound up taking you back after all?

# ? Oct 22, 2022 18:51

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:43

Rev. Bleech_: Oct 19, 2004; ~OKAY, WE'LL DRINK TO OUR LEGS!~

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:

hes definitely someone who seems like he could rip the heads off of a couple of people at the drop of a hat

yes, that usually does make hats drop

# ? Oct 22, 2022 19:01

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

ILL Machina posted:

Y'all need to check out the intro to the new knowledge fight. I mean you should listen to the whole thing because it a deposition episode, but norms call-out was priceless.

Gotta say I miss the �Red Alert� / �BLEH� intro even if this one is great.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 19:28

Tree Dude: May 26, 2012; AND MY SONG IS...

Shumagorath posted:

Gotta say I miss the �Red Alert� / �BLEH� intro even if this one is great.

Don't think you'll have to miss it for long. The special intros are usually one-offs

# ? Oct 22, 2022 19:33

ILL Machina: Mar 25, 2004; Glory to Italia!

Ayy!! This text is-a the color of marinara! Ohhhh!! Dat's amore!!

Shumagorath posted:

Gotta say I miss the “Red Alert” / “BLEH” intro even if this one is great.

Yeah but this one has a Celine cameo!

# ? Oct 22, 2022 19:36

SubponticatePoster: Aug 9, 2004; Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.; Slippery Tilde

univbee posted:

This is also the type of thing that for the owner has a very high chance of causing some sort of legal trouble in the "you're not under arrest but you do have to answer this summons where you'll be questioned about exactly how and why Alex Jones is living in your house for free" sense. I think even among chuds who are Alex Jones fans, that's really sticking your neck out and well beyond what most people rich enough to have a whole extra house would do.

Alex Jones is very much legally toxic right now, any sort of activity you do with him especially any sort of financial handout has a non-zero chance of getting you roped into his mess, and I don't think Alex Jones has truly close friends willing to take that chance.

I mean, eh, one of his buddies like Roger Stone or Peter Thiel probably have a guest house and would just say "I believe in freedom of speech blah blah gave him a place to live, I don't give him money" and they're rich enough (and smarter than AJ to listen to their counsel or have their lawyer speak for them) that they wouldn't see any consequences. It's not illegal to give your down-on-his-luck friend a place to crash - theirs is just much nicer than the couch in your spare room.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 20:01

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

There is a Bloomberg story going around that the plaintiff's are asking for 2.75 trillion punitive damages. This is not true, and is based on a misreading of the brief (available here)

The 2.75 trillion comes from an example of "well if every violation were assessed at the maximum amount, it would be that much"

What they are actually asking for is a multiplier of the compensatory damages (which is the standard determation for punitive damages), the exact level left up to the judge to decide.

quote:

What the Court must do is craft an award that is tailored to the facts of this particular case. That award must account for the following:

1) The defendants acted wilfully, maliciously, and evilly � that is, with the highest possible degree of reprehensibility and blameworthiness, see Ulbrich, 310 Conn. at 456 (�intentional malice� is the most reprehensible level of culpability); id. at 454 (trial court �should consider� �whether the defendant's conduct was reckless, intentional or malicious....�). Moreover, the defendants repeatedly attacked the plaintiffs over what is now nearly a decade, see Ulbrich, 310 Conn. at 455 (appropriate to consider whether wrongdoing involved �repeated actions� not �an isolated incident�), and were successful in concealing, to a significant extent, the full scope of their wrongdoing.

2) The harm the defendants caused is catastrophic. At an absolute minimum, the defendants generated 550,000,000 impressions of their lies about the plaintiffs on social media alone, between 2012 and 2018 alone. They began doing so at the moment of the plaintiffs� greatest vulnerability � as they mourned their lost loved ones or, in Bill Aldenberg�s case, confronted the trauma of responding to the horror of the massacre.

3) The defendants are incorrigible. They used this trial to escalate their attacks on the plaintiffs and increase their profits. See Gore, 517 U.S. at 576-77 (�[E]vidence that a defendant has repeatedly engaged in prohibited conduct while knowing or suspecting that it was unlawful would provide relevant support for an argument that strong medicine is required to cure the defendant's disrespect for the law.... Our holdings that a recidivist may be punished more severely than a first offender [in awarding punitive damages] recognize that repeated misconduct is more reprehensible than an individual instance of malfeasance.�).

Any one of these considerations taken alone would warrant a very significant punitive damages award. All three considerations should be accounted for. The wrongdoing in this case is historic in its scale, in the wrongdoers� utter lack of repentance, and in the certainty of the wrongdoers� intention to continue harming the plaintiffs. To ignore the degree of the defendants� blameworthiness, the harm intentionally caused, or the defendants� unrepentant intent to continue attacking the plaintiffs would excuse conduct that cannot be excused. CUTPA punitive damages are typically assessed as a multiple of compensatory damages, and that approach is surely appropriate here; it will be for the Court to determine what multiple makes the appropriate punitive and deterrent response to the defendants� wrongdoing. That decision lies within the Court�s sound discretion.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 20:40

Frank Frank: Jun 13, 2001; Mirrored

gently caress it, give them 2.75 trillion

# ? Oct 22, 2022 20:54

Kung Food: Dec 11, 2006; PORN WIZARD

Not that it matters. Anything after this point might as well be infinite money.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:02

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Yeah I don�t get why people are obsessed with punitives, I doubt it will change anything substantially

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:05

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

https://twitter.com/Kolyin/status/1583905893628145664

I'm starting to think Norm Pattis is a not a good lawyer

Piell fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 22, 2022

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:07

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

loving LOL. It's like a video game where they highlight various details, mechanics and characters in the story to help the player follow along.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:22

Renegret: May 26, 2007; THANK YOU FOR CALLING HELP DOG, INC.

YOUR POSITION IN THE QUEUE IS *pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt*

Cat Army Sworn Enemy

Powerful Katrinka posted:

I don't think the court is going to give him a do-over

I dunno I'd love to watch him lose again.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:32

Plan R: Oct 5, 2021; For Romeo

Those wily Globalists are supremely powerful and yet inept; that and the weather at 11.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:35

B-Rock452: Jan 6, 2005

Piell posted:

https://twitter.com/Kolyin/status/1583905893628145664

I'm starting to think Norm Pattis is a not a good lawyer

I feel bad for whoever hired him for a murder trial in NYC. Can't really inspire much confidence if the week before your trial for murder, your lawyer loses a case and his client gets hit for a billion dollars in damages

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:39

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

B-Rock452 posted:

I feel bad for whoever hired him for a murder trial in NYC. Can't really inspire much confidence if the week before your trial for murder, your lawyer loses a case and his client gets hit for a billion dollars in damages

�This is why when I tell you to shut up, you shut up.�

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:44

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

B-Rock452 posted:

I feel bad for whoever hired him for a murder trial in NYC. Can't really inspire much confidence if the week before your trial for murder, your lawyer loses a case and his client gets hit for a billion dollars in damages

ah, but see, 1 billion is significantly less than 4 trillion, so in reality they're both super brain geniouses

# ? Oct 22, 2022 21:50

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Frank Frank posted:

gently caress it, give them 2.75 trillion

Your honor, we ask that you determine Alex Jones owes the United States' M1 Money Supply in damages.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 23:45

Frank Frank: Jun 13, 2001; Mirrored

Seems reasonable to me.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 23:55

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

We find the defendant liable for all of the money. All of it.

# ? Oct 23, 2022 00:02

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Frank Frank posted:

gently caress it, give them 2.75 trillion

It's one way to get out of the economic recession

# ? Oct 23, 2022 00:09

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

Alkydere posted:

loving LOL. It's like a video game where they highlight various details, mechanics and characters in the story to help the player follow along.

I think the funniest part, from the comments, is that some of the hyperlinks are blue. But other hyperlinks are purple, meaning they've been clicked. So that means that not only is the formatting absurdly sloppy and nobody bothered with an editing pass, but they didn't even read everything they cited.

# ? Oct 23, 2022 00:24

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

If it was a cut-n-paste then the links should be all uniformly the same color because your word processor doesn't know or give a poo poo what your browsing history is like. So this is either a screencap (!) or somehow they hosed up even more when converting to PDF??? It's utterly inexplicable.

For the record, you can't possibly read all your cites, because your cites will cite other cases which will cite other cases, in an infinite regression. Since your goal isn't to rebuild the law from first principles, it's usually enough to make sure the primary cites also rely on good law. And there's often no need to dig into well-known cases if they're cited, because you should already know the reason it's there.

Edit: vv you'd do that if you're sane, but given the quality of the work product on display here, I'm thinking of insane ways of publishing to PDF.

kw0134 fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Oct 23, 2022

# ? Oct 23, 2022 01:17

Dewgy: Nov 10, 2005; ~🚚special delivery~📦

kw0134 posted:

If it was a cut-n-paste then the links should be all uniformly the same color because your word processor doesn't know or give a poo poo what your browsing history is like. So this is either a screencap (!) or somehow they hosed up even more when converting to PDF??? It's utterly inexplicable.

File > Print > Save As PDF

# ? Oct 23, 2022 01:20

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

kw0134 posted:

If it was a cut-n-paste then the links should be all uniformly the same color because your word processor doesn't know or give a poo poo what your browsing history is like. So this is either a screencap (!) or somehow they hosed up even more when converting to PDF??? It's utterly inexplicable.

For the record, you can't possibly read all your cites, because your cites will cite other cases which will cite other cases, in an infinite regression. Since your goal isn't to rebuild the law from first principles, it's usually enough to make sure the primary cites also rely on good law. And there's often no need to dig into well-known cases if they're cited, because you should already know the reason it's there.

Have you met an old? Document conversion is garlic to those vampires.

# ? Oct 23, 2022 01:22

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

I have a PDF that says I am the new Pope, signed by God via digital signature.

You will all bow to Pope Butcher now. But I will be a nice Pope.

Everyone gets food, water, and birth control.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 00:47

Tree Dude: May 26, 2012; AND MY SONG IS...

Just watch out for Steve Pieczenik he'll kidnap and throw your Pope-rear end in secret jail.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 00:49

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

Dewgy posted:

File > Print > Save As PDF

I actually get better results printing to pdf than from Offices "save as pdf" feature.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 01:04

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Agents are GO! posted:

I actually get better results printing to pdf than from Offices "save as pdf" feature.

For certain very specific things with .tex, sometimes it�s easier to just leave a chunk of white space and then put stuff into the .pdf later with a semi-purloined copy of Illustrator shhhh don�t tell anyone.

I got the idea from the old school linguistics working on Chinese in the 70�s where they�d leave white space, hand write in the Chinese and then xerox that because it was easier than getting Western printers to type English and Chinese in one document.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 02:03

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

Faust IX posted:

Bitcoin stuff

So if he received 191m in bitcoin he has to pay taxes on that, right? Even if he lost the laptop and doesn't have access to them

# ? Oct 24, 2022 02:14

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

ilmucche posted:

So if he received 191m in bitcoin he has to pay taxes on that, right? Even if he lost the laptop and doesn't have access to them

Was this after 2014?

# ? Oct 24, 2022 02:15

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

Xiahou Dun posted:

Was this after 2014?

The article says he got sent them in 2011

# ? Oct 24, 2022 02:19

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

ilmucche posted:

The article says he got sent them in 2011

The IRS started taxing them as of March 2014, so at least not as of then I�m assuming.
Edit : but they�re taxed like property so :shrug:

I rent idk dude

# ? Oct 24, 2022 02:22

Jarvisi: Apr 17, 2001; Green is still best.

Pennywise the Frown posted:

yeah ok

This article says that Jones acknowledged now that sandy hook happened which is a lie. Wtf.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 03:24

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

ilmucche posted:

So if he received 191m in bitcoin he has to pay taxes on that, right?

A gift isn�t income. Gifts in the US are taxed in the hands of the donor, if they exceed the annual and lifetime limits for that donor.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 03:52

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

pseudanonymous posted:

gently caress that guy. He�s too nice.

People just think he's nice when he signs all his messages "T.HANKS"

# ? Oct 24, 2022 12:32

Stoatbringer: Sep 15, 2004; naw, you love it you little ho-bot

Frank Frank posted:

gently caress it, give them 2.75 trillion

Each.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 14:43

Lazyfire: Feb 4, 2006; God saves. Satan Invests

B-Rock452 posted:

I feel bad for whoever hired him for a murder trial in NYC. Can't really inspire much confidence if the week before your trial for murder, your lawyer loses a case and his client gets hit for a billion dollars in damages

As terrible a person as Pattis has proven himself to be, these are really two different scenarios. Norm was trying to get himself removed from the case between the default and the trial because he knew there was almost nothing he could do to reduce the damage. Part of that was just the mountains of evidence, some of which only came out after the Perry Mason Moment in Texas, showing Infowars and Alex knew what they were doing hammering on the Sandy Hook theories. The other fact was that Alex was clearly directing the course Norm was going to take through the case. Norm's talking points are near identical to things Alex has been saying on air, on the stand and in front of the courthouse about the whole trial. The bits where Alex has spoken on air about Norm calling him and apologizing about something Liz Williamson tweeted and explaining himself says a lot about that relationship.

Why he feels he owes this to Alex is a great question. I think that with the size of these judgements it means that Alex may start suing his lawyers and Norm is trying to prove he did everything asked of him.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 15:37

thoughts and prayers: Apr 22, 2013; Love heals all wounds. We hope you continually carry love in your heart. Today and always, may loving memories bring you peace, comfort, and strength. We sympathize with the family of (Name). We shall never forget you in our prayers and thoughts. I am at a loss for words during this sorrowful time.

Renegret posted:

I dunno I'd love to watch him lose again.

If it wouldn't re-traumatize the witnesses in the process, I'd be right there.

But I have a feeling the stress of dealing with that monster has taken, collectively, a few years off of the lives of everyone involved.

# ? Oct 24, 2022 15:51

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:43

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Lazyfire posted:

As terrible a person as Pattis has proven himself to be, these are really two different scenarios. Norm was trying to get himself removed from the case between the default and the trial because he knew there was almost nothing he could do to reduce the damage. Part of that was just the mountains of evidence, some of which only came out after the Perry Mason Moment in Texas, showing Infowars and Alex knew what they were doing hammering on the Sandy Hook theories. The other fact was that Alex was clearly directing the course Norm was going to take through the case. Norm's talking points are near identical to things Alex has been saying on air, on the stand and in front of the courthouse about the whole trial. The bits where Alex has spoken on air about Norm calling him and apologizing about something Liz Williamson tweeted and explaining himself says a lot about that relationship.

Why he feels he owes this to Alex is a great question. I think that with the size of these judgements it means that Alex may start suing his lawyers and Norm is trying to prove he did everything asked of him.

On the one hand, an attorney owes a duty of care that isn't reduced to a simple "yes sir" relationship with regards to legal advice and conduct. So if Pattis was directed to do this and that during the course of litigation, he has to at least show he tried to and failed to dissuade his client from pursuing this strategy. If the client insists on committing legal suicide then that's his choice to make but you have to make clear that it's, in fact, a terrible idea, so just following Jones' orders isn't proof against malpractice. Zealous representation doesn't mean running off a cliff with them because that's what they wanted.

On the other hand, Jones is such a terrible client and this case stunk of being a loser from the start that the other prong of malpractice -- that another attorney could have done better -- likely won't be met. Another attorney would have thrown up their hands and said "I dunno, you can look under the couch cushions for the judgment I guess???"

# ? Oct 24, 2022 16:32

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