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Matsuno/Team Quest games are extremely my jam; I was intrigued after FFTactics, on board after Vagrant Story, and hooked after FFXII. Never got around to Tactics Ogre due to assorted circumstances. The more I hear of this remake, the more excited I am.
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Oct 23, 2022 17:28
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On that note, where's a Vagrant Story remake/remaster?
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Oct 23, 2022 17:36
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IthilionTheBrave posted:On that note, where's a Vagrant Story remake/remaster?
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Oct 23, 2022 17:54
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IthilionTheBrave posted:On that note, where's a Vagrant Story remake/remaster? Who can say with how weird Square is about remasters That’s one I’d love to see though, even as a relatively light graphical touchup. Feel like it looks shockingly good, despite being on PS1. Imma guess we’d get a giant labor of love on the level of Live A Live, or a hilariously jank hackjob. It would be on brand for them at this point.
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Oct 23, 2022 17:56
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IthilionTheBrave posted:On that note, where's a Vagrant Story remake/remaster? I love that game with all my heart but the last time I played through it I really noticed just how much time I spent in the menus and how little time I spent playing the game itself. Vagrant Story would need an almost complete overhaul of all its systems and menus You'd need to change the weapon and affinity system so that it doesn't devolve into the optimal setup being only 3 weapons with 2 affinities each that you use the whole game and ignore everything else except for upgrade materials The crafting system was cool and fun but cryptic as all hell and getting the best armor in the game required you to do a bunch of stupid poo poo and it was a lot easier to just use the second or third best armor in the game because the best armor just wasn't worth all the time and effort for the minor increases in stats Then there's the platforming bits which are just lmao in general and there are platforms you literally can't jump to without using certain items and even then it's a huge pain They'd have to address all this stuff to streamline the gameplay and significantly reduce the amount of time you spend in menus changing weapons and armor and finding the items you need to use in combat The combat and the story are all excellent though and should stay the same. Maybe tweak the chain system so that you never have to sit there doing 1 damage per chain hit over and over again for 15 minutes to kill a boss
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Oct 23, 2022 18:43
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The optimal way to play Vagrant Story was to get a slashing weapon you like, get a blunt weapon you like, and keep their PP topped off. And bring a shield to the final boss.
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Oct 23, 2022 19:00
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Mr. Lobe posted:In the original tactics ogre, your current class when you leveled determined the kind of bass stat growth a character got. I wonder if they're reverting to that form? If so, I wonder if it'll mean you'll want to have your units level up as ninjas for max speed like in the original. There was some preview footage a while back that showed stat variations of a point or two for leveling based on class, but it's way less pronounced than in the original version. They're using the initiative system from the PSP version which only cares about class/gear/actions taken to determine turn order, so it looks like you don't want to always level your dudes as ninjas if you can manage this time around. Elephant Ambush posted:I love that game with all my heart but the last time I played through it I really noticed just how much time I spent in the menus and how little time I spent playing the game itself. Vagrant Story would need an almost complete overhaul of all its systems and menus I played through Vagrant Story recently, and yeah this whole post is spot on. It's an audiovisual delight and the cutscenes are the best on the PSX but man it sucks to play. gently caress those block puzzles, I never want to do that poo poo again
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Oct 23, 2022 19:42
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Mr. Lobe posted:In the original tactics ogre, your current class when you leveled determined the kind of bass stat growth a character got. I wonder if they're reverting to that form? If so, I wonder if it'll mean you'll want to have your units level up as ninjas for max speed like in the original. That's incredibly dumb and now I am afraid that this will happen.
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Oct 23, 2022 21:45
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JustJeff88 posted:That's incredibly dumb and now I am afraid that this will happen. I'm hoping it doesn't! I'd much rather just worry about skill development for character growth/customization and not what class they level as!
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Oct 23, 2022 21:57
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IthilionTheBrave posted:I'm hoping it doesn't! I'd much rather just worry about skill development for character growth/customization and not what class they level as! Yeah the ffv stat system was essentially perfect and I dunno why it doesn't get used more often.
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Oct 23, 2022 22:06
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Eh, it wasn't nearly as big a deal as people make it, but it also wouldn't be a big deal if it's gone. The effect was negligible in casual play and optimizing both wasn't necessary and didn't make a huge difference. Which is a good argument for getting rid of it, to be fair.
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Oct 23, 2022 22:10
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Mr. Lobe posted:In the original tactics ogre, your current class when you leveled determined the kind of bass stat growth a character got. I wonder if they're reverting to that form? If so, I wonder if it'll mean you'll want to have your units level up as ninjas for max speed like in the original. This has Problems(tm), but it was very funny accidentally making unhittable Terror Knights who never missed or the world's tankiest Wizard! Just uh. If they're gonna do thatn they gotta be clear about how big an impact stats have!
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Oct 24, 2022 00:28
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Mr. Lobe posted:In the original tactics ogre, your current class when you leveled determined the kind of bass stat growth a character got. I wonder if they're reverting to that form? If so, I wonder if it'll mean you'll want to have your units level up as ninjas for max speed like in the original. 
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Oct 25, 2022 00:12
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Not this again… I’m not sure what i dread about this thread more, some rando coming in to call everyone nerds for not being okay with Archer balance, or the ~character base stat leveling minmax conversation~
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Oct 25, 2022 03:31
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Double Edit: Found the answer i wated edit: I'm realizing I'm going to end up buying this either way........but now I do want the PSP version again now too 
Tiny Chalupa fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Oct 25, 2022 |
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Oct 25, 2022 06:50
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Tiny Chalupa posted:Double Edit: Found the answer i wated Emulation is right there. There are plenty of $100 handhelds that will run it.
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Oct 25, 2022 07:01
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Rascyc posted:Hate to break it to ya Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but that's not showing the character gaining different stats based on what class they are when the character itself levels, that's showing the stat changes when the character changes class. It'd be stupid as gently caress for every class to have the exact same stats.
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Oct 25, 2022 11:15
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Zurai posted:Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but that's not showing the character gaining different stats based on what class they are when the character itself levels, that's showing the stat changes when the character changes class. It'd be stupid as gently caress for every class to have the exact same stats. No that’s the problem, if you look the stats aren’t really changing in any significant way despite it being a unit going from a mage knight to a tank, so it seems like what class you level in is gonna be the dominating factor unlike something like Final Fantasy V/Tactics where if you turn from a black mage to a knight you’re mostly just a knight now aside from some minor growth rates based on units in Tactics’ case.
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Oct 25, 2022 11:39
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eh, that only matters if you can get extra turns by leveling up as a specific class. that doesn't seem likely what with how much rt changes going to the chonky slow boy class.
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Oct 25, 2022 12:19
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Last Celebration posted:so it seems like what class you level in is gonna be the dominating factor This seems like a gigantic leap to make when we don't even know if stat growths are still dependent on the class you level in or what degree they matter.
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Oct 25, 2022 13:15
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Zurai posted:This seems like a gigantic leap to make when we don't even know if stat growths are still dependent on the class you level in or what degree they matter. https://twitter.com/YasumiMatsuno/status/1561977105096663040?t=sSlkCT81lQEEZb2dYPM6kg&s=19
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Oct 25, 2022 13:21
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I think the most important take away is they've trimmed the places where extra stats came from which was a major contributor in completely breaking systems completely by accident ("the game started so hard and then became so easy what gives??"). The other factor was bad scaling math but that's a complicated topic. People are going to find other ways to break the game but hopefully it'll be more deliberate and rewarding this time around, we'll see. Letting people equip all gear slots this time around might get exciting. Not too worried, this is what like the 4th chance Matsuno has had to make this system work? And most people don't realize what's gone wrong in the past games so a lot of this is probably targeting specific and vocal complaints and not really the post game min-maxers.
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Oct 25, 2022 13:42
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At first I was a bit jealous of a Japanese player who got to enjoy the remake early Then I looked at the Twitter handle and actually shrieked
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Oct 25, 2022 15:55
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isk posted:At first I was a bit jealous of a Japanese player who got to enjoy the remake early For a second I was confused and then I looked at the tweet again and it all made a lot of sense.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:04
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BurningBeard posted:Who can say with how weird Square is about remasters
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Oct 25, 2022 16:04
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Going back to class-based stat growth will just further emphasize that neutral is the road for loser centrists. Recruit an awesome undead(ish) terror knight far earlier than you should have access to that class! Oh but the terror knight is assumed to have gained all his levels as a terror knight so he will get like 1 turn for every 3 turns everyone else gets. Commit to your war crimes or not committing war crimes. The alternative is getting good units killed and getting a very lovely terror knight!
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Oct 25, 2022 16:40
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FairGame posted:Going back to class-based stat growth will just further emphasize that neutral is the road for loser centrists. I mean that's more terror knight being a bad class because class balance has been bad forever. Terror Knights are just bad in every iteration of Ogre Battle, the 2 hits they do vs the other top end melee's 3 when all they get in return is 1 point of strength growth is a solid example. I was tempted to do a neutral run just to collect all the shaman sisters even if they weren't great.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:48
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Who knows, maybe they'll make terror knights good units this time.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:49
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terror knight in the one vision mod rules. just a dude who's gonna ruin your day with a twohander while being able to take some hits.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:53
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FairGame posted:Oh but the terror knight is assumed to have gained all his levels as a terror knight so he will get like 1 turn for every 3 turns everyone else gets. This has never been a thing. They're slower, but not even 1:1.5 slower, let alone 1:3.
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Oct 25, 2022 17:06
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Roobanguy posted:terror knight in the one vision mod rules. just a dude who's gonna ruin your day with a twohander while being able to take some hits. I will probably never play LUTC again, but I definitely want to play that mod. It's been worked on for too long and in too much detail to ignore.
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Oct 25, 2022 17:27
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I actually used a Juggernaut (lizardman Terror Knight-alike) in One Vision instead of an actual TK. Surprisingly good.
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Oct 25, 2022 17:41
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I really missed having monster units in Triangle Strategy. I did not use them too heavily in Tactics Ogre and definitely not Final Fantasy Tactics, but it was nice having units that were mostly different from your human units. I don't think I ever got Octopi or Griffins to be as badass as some that you encounter in random battles, but I did maintain a dragon that would get deployed periodically and work as an amazing tank.
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Oct 25, 2022 18:20
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FairGame posted:
The only tough part of getting Terror Knight was needing like 20 person kills, which if you funneled them to one guy wasn't hard to accomplish. Denam could have gotten it near the start of Chapter 2. I did it myself when I was a dumb child who didn't know any better! So, he comes later than you can get a generic of the class AND has awful speed as a result of pure TK leveling. Pure profit!! It sucks, I think that duo is one of the cooler parts of N route, but they're both pretty bad.
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Oct 25, 2022 18:54
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I always ran a dragon because it’s a dragon and that’s cool but man so they get hard to fit in to late game battles sometimes. It’s fun having them as an extra stair in some levels tho. Hopefully all beasts get some better use cases this time.
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Oct 25, 2022 19:08
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WarpedLichen posted:I mean that's more terror knight being a bad class because class balance has been bad forever. Terror Knights are just bad in every iteration of Ogre Battle, the 2 hits they do vs the other top end melee's 3 when all they get in return is 1 point of strength growth is a solid example. Terror Knights seemed like a great class in my first playthrough when you attack Branta and he's got an entire vanguard of terror knights who I'm assuming had their terror field stacking because my melee units couldn't do anything. (Then they all got petrified and I just walked around them.) Zurai posted:This has never been a thing. They're slower, but not even 1:1.5 slower, let alone 1:3. [Hyperbole: Expert - Failure] Look man I just want to dump on the class that sounds so badass and sucks in reality let me have this. (Are there ANY games where the speed stat wasn't the be-all end-all of who is best? Action economy rules.)
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Oct 25, 2022 19:24
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FairGame posted:(Are there ANY games where the speed stat wasn't the be-all end-all of who is best? Action economy rules.) One comes to mind (sorta). In Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, Dex is a god stat in Real Time w/Pause mode (at least for martial characters) and a dump stat in Turn Based mode One factor is that TB in Deadfire was done by, like, one or two devs as a quick side thing post-release; it's remarkable it works as well as it does
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Oct 25, 2022 20:29
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isk posted:One comes to mind (sorta). In Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, Dex is a god stat in Real Time w/Pause mode (at least for martial characters) and a dump stat in Turn Based mode I still remember when it was released by accident prematurely in a patch
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Oct 25, 2022 21:06
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I'm not trying to 'kick a beehive' here, but an early-access reviewer confirmed perma-death. I'm not pleased about that. To me, it's just a pointless reason to restart.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:23
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm not trying to 'kick a beehive' here, but an early-access reviewer confirmed perma-death. I'm not pleased about that. To me, it's just a pointless reason to restart. I don't remember where, but I thought I read you have a window to resuscitate your guys after they're struck down. I wouldn't mind as long as that was the case. Besides, you could always use chariot to go back a few turns, rather than fully restart.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:25
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