MLB Offseason: It's All About the Positions He Doesn't Play

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > MLB Offseason: It's All About the Positions He Doesn't Play

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Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed.
Shohei Ohtani	50	59.52%
Aaron Judge	19	22.62%
Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know!	15	17.86%
Total:	84 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

Sydin posted:

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/10/giants-on-mission-to-steal-aaron-judge-from-yankees-they-wont-be-underbid.html

Honestly I expected the Giants to sit it out a couple years given the surging Dodgers and Padres, so it'd be neat if they said actually nah gently caress that noise and went all in on signing Judge + a couple other top tier FA's. That said Judge's all fields HR approach would get suppressed to hell and back by Oracle.

I feel like the Giants' ownership group expects results and they are always willing to spend money. I realize some of that is based on perceptions from pre-Zaidi years, but I'm sure he's not going to turn down the chance to sign someone like Judge.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 13:31

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# ? May 28, 2024 14:40

davecrazy: Nov 25, 2004; I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.

If Roid Rage Barry Bonds could hit there, anyone can!

# ? Oct 26, 2022 13:33

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

Aaron Judge should be required to take steroids. I wanna see how man dingers he could hit

# ? Oct 26, 2022 13:36

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

mcmagic posted:

The Yankees as they are currently run where they don�t spend like the other teams at their level of revenue will let Judge walk.

Just wait until you see how hard the Cubs won't spend money.
Because there are a ton of 50ish upside prospects who they might assigned directly to AA next year.
So there, baseball.

camoseven posted:

Aaron Judge should be required to take steroids. I wanna see how man dingers he could hit

And play for any team who makes regular stops in Colorado but not Colorado itself because its where talent goes to die.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 13:38

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

maffew buildings posted:

little known fact that 99 win teams are bad most of the year WOW

This is a dumb statement. When you watch every game you see what a team is. The Yankees had a unbelievable fluky 60ish game stretch that was fueled by incredible pitching both in the bullpen and the rotation that was unsustainable. Once that normalized in June the rest of the season was a .500 mediocre team that almost blew a 15 game lead and then shat all over the field in the playoffs like they always do.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 14:39

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

mcmagic posted:

The Yankees as they are currently run where they don�t spend like the other teams at their level of revenue will let Judge walk.

Yankees opening day payroll rank in the past decade:
2022: 3rd
2021: 2nd
2020: 1st
2019: 3rd
2018: 7th
2017: 2nd
2016: 2nd
2015: 2nd
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st

# ? Oct 26, 2022 14:59

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Paracaidas posted:

Yankees opening day payroll rank in the past decade:
2022: 3rd
2021: 2nd
2020: 1st
2019: 3rd
2018: 7th
2017: 2nd
2016: 2nd
2015: 2nd
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st

Do payroll as a percentage of revenue now.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:02

Forrest on Fire: Nov 23, 2012

mcmagic posted:

Do payroll as a percentage of revenue now.

They should be spending more, every team should be running at least a $200 million payroll. The Yankees shouldn't ever be below $400 million

They should achieve that by signing every 35yo that hits the market. Cashman running the team like it's the 90s. It'd solve their cheapness while most importantly, ensuring the Yankees still suck

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:05

Kevlar v2.0: Dec 25, 2003; =^�⩊�^=

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bigdumperPm/status/1190655173011505153

Congrats Mariners fans!!!

Next year is going to the Padres. They're following the Cubs' path of beating their biggest rival in the DS and getting eliminated in the CS one year before winning the World Series.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

He�s back

https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1585273226980098048?s=46&t=tyCyyUeIbPJpQzXRYvGe4Q

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:15

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003; I got a taste for blown saves

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bigdumperPm/status/1190655173011505153

Congrats Mariners fans!!!

There are dueling predictions

https://twitter.com/calliemelancon/status/1584722846903066624

The Nationals winning in 2024 seems..... dubious

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:25

Kevlar v2.0: Dec 25, 2003; =^�⩊�^=

Cubs 2024-2029

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:34

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Marlins aren�t winning any time soon either

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:41

Nodoze: Aug 17, 2006; If it's only for a night I can live without you

Forrest on Fire posted:

They should be spending more, every team should be running at least a $200 million payroll. The Yankees shouldn't ever be below $400 million

They should achieve that by signing every 35yo that hits the market. Cashman running the team like it's the 90s. It'd solve their cheapness while most importantly, ensuring the Yankees still suck

A good example of this is them not wanting to pick up what was left of Verlanders deal when he got traded by Detroit, and then only offering him a one year deal this off season. Both times it was a need and would have made a difference

They also wanted Nolan Arenado but didn't pull the trigger on him because of the luxury tax. The Cardinals ended up getting him for basically nothing and got money from the Rockies. They didn't even talk to Bryce Harper because they had old rear end Brett Gardner and Aaron Hicks on the roster and were worried about having to pay Torres and Andujar later down the line :lol:

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:44

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

mcmagic posted:

Do payroll as a percentage of revenue now.

Learn something new every day, didn't realize baseball even had goalposts.

mcmagic posted:

The Yankees as they are currently run where they don�t spend like the other teams at their level of revenue will let Judge walk.

The Forbes estimates should never be used as a denominator given their systematic flaws in valuing for unique ancillary revenue schemes (Battery, SportsnetLA, etc), but we'll go with it and look at the 5 teams estimated to make $400m+ in revenues, noting the Yankees ($482m) are closer to Number 5 (Cubbies, $425m) on the list than Number 1 (Dodgers, $565m).

Yankees opening day payroll rank among the 5 clubs estimated to make $400m+ in revenue:
2022: 2nd
2021: 2nd
2020: 1st
2019: 3rd
2018: 4th
2017: 2nd
2016: 2nd
2015: 2nd
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st

Which makes it even more clear that the Yankees do spend as much or more than most teams at their level of revenue.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:48

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

mcmagic posted:

This is a dumb statement. When you watch every game you see what a team is. The Yankees had a unbelievable fluky 60ish game stretch that was fueled by incredible pitching both in the bullpen and the rotation that was unsustainable. Once that normalized in June the rest of the season was a .500 mediocre team that almost blew a 15 game lead and then shat all over the field in the playoffs like they always do.

Lol, lmao

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:48

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

can't believe how dogshit this ALCS team is what the gently caress. y'all brain broken as gently caress

# ? Oct 26, 2022 15:51

Poque: Sep 11, 2003; =^-^=

Kevlar v2.0 posted:

Cubs 2024-2029

Cubs 2022-2029 (take ownership of the Phillies' victory by virtue of season sweeping them)

# ? Oct 26, 2022 16:02

MrMidnight: Aug 3, 2006

Paracaidas posted:

Learn something new every day, didn't realize baseball even had goalposts.

The Forbes estimates should never be used as a denominator given their systematic flaws in valuing for unique ancillary revenue schemes (Battery, SportsnetLA, etc), but we'll go with it and look at the 5 teams estimated to make $400m+ in revenues, noting the Yankees ($482m) are closer to Number 5 (Cubbies, $425m) on the list than Number 1 (Dodgers, $565m).

Yankees opening day payroll rank among the 5 clubs estimated to make $400m+ in revenue:
2022: 2nd
2021: 2nd
2020: 1st
2019: 3rd
2018: 4th
2017: 2nd
2016: 2nd
2015: 2nd
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st

Which makes it even more clear that the Yankees do spend as much or more than most teams at their level of revenue.

You see the problem is you're using common sense & facts with mcmagic.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 16:11

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

tadashi posted:

Just wait until you see how hard the Cubs won't spend money.
Because there are a ton of 50ish upside prospects who they might assigned directly to AA next year.
So there, baseball.

And play for any team who makes regular stops in Colorado but not Colorado itself because its where talent goes to die.

Should the Rockies just up and build a domed stadium?

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:01

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

Red posted:

Should the Rockies just up and build a domed stadium?

no, and gently caress you for putting this energy into the world

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:08

Nodoze: Aug 17, 2006; If it's only for a night I can live without you

Red posted:

Should the Rockies just up and build a domed stadium?

Yes but also no because huge dingers

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:18

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Paracaidas posted:

Learn something new every day, didn't realize baseball even had goalposts.

The Forbes estimates should never be used as a denominator given their systematic flaws in valuing for unique ancillary revenue schemes (Battery, SportsnetLA, etc), but we'll go with it and look at the 5 teams estimated to make $400m+ in revenues, noting the Yankees ($482m) are closer to Number 5 (Cubbies, $425m) on the list than Number 1 (Dodgers, $565m).

Yankees opening day payroll rank among the 5 clubs estimated to make $400m+ in revenue:
2022: 2nd
2021: 2nd
2020: 1st
2019: 3rd
2018: 4th
2017: 2nd
2016: 2nd
2015: 2nd
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st

Which makes it even more clear that the Yankees do spend as much or more than most teams at their level of revenue.

The point I've made here over and over again is that the yankees had a 200mm payroll 12 years ago. It clearly hasn't increased with the revenues. They are spending FAR less of a % of the revenue on the payroll as they used to. That is just a fact. They have used the luxury tax as a reason not to do player moves in a way the Steve Cohen Mets and the Dodgers just don't. Also their issue is clearly not just that they don't spend enough, they have done a terrible job allocating the money they do spend.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:20

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bigdumperPm/status/1190655173011505153

Congrats Mariners fans!!!

If the Phillies win, I'm in.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:42

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

FlamingLiberal posted:

He�s back

https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1585273226980098048?s=46&t=tyCyyUeIbPJpQzXRYvGe4Q

Oh my god just gently caress off old man.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 17:57

davecrazy: Nov 25, 2004; I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.

https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1585286837089837057?s=20&t=BaIeKmR4HxzYZCRyym9_pA

Yankees toxic fan culture!

quote:

Will the Yankees� external toxicity problem cost them Aaron Judge, other free agents?
More than one Yankee player has told his agent this week that playing at the Stadium last weekend was an unusually brutal experience
Andy MartinoMLB Insider
10/26/2022 10:54am

"I�m an Astro, bro," Reggie Jackson, a special advisor to Houston owner Jim Crane, told Mark Berman of Fox 26 last week at Minute Maid Park. "The pinstripes get heavy sometimes."

It is not, therefore, a new emotion to be exhausted by the unrealistic expectations and anger that follows when those expectations aren�t met. Even Mr. October felt the weight of it. But even before the Astros swept the Yankees in the ALCS last weekend, the clubhouse and front office had quietly noticed that the external energy surrounding the team felt as angry as it has been in ages.

If you�re Aaron Judge, booed in the playoffs days after setting an American League home run record, why wouldn�t you prefer sunny Los Angeles or familiar San Francisco?

And if you�re a free agent talking to your friends already on the team, why would you subject yourself to the experiences they describe?

You won�t find any Yankee players willing to offer a quote criticizing fan culture, but I�ll pass along these observations after embedding with the team throughout a difficult month.

First, this is not a criticism of folks who feel angry and disappointed that they don�t get to cheer for their team in the World Series. It�s just an objective truth that the team is taken aback by the level of negativity hitting them after a division title and 99-win season. Those feelings could have real consequences for the roster.

More than one Yankee player has told his agent this week that playing at the Stadium last weekend was an unusually brutal experience. It was hard for many teammates to believe that fans booed Judge. Even a difficult person and underperformer like Josh Donaldson was turned into a somewhat sympathetic figure internally by the force of the jeering.
New York Yankees third baseman Josh Donaldson (28) throws to first base to force out Cleveland Guardians designated hitter Owen Miller (not pictured) during the tenth inning in game two of the ALDS for the 2022 MLB Playoffs at Yankee Stadium.

In the days that followed, many in the organization were surprised by the tone of fan and media reaction. Rivals were shocked too. One longtime exec texted to say he was struck by "the irrational opinions on Cashman and Boone. I get that it�s World Series or bust but drat they�re spoiled."

The gap between industry and fan perceptions of Cashman and Boone is particularly striking. Rivals consider Cashman one of the greatest executives in sports, and say that Boone will immediately become a coveted free agent if the Yankees fire him. Other GMs and agents are genuinely baffled by fan hate toward those two.

Cashman and Boone can take it, though. They�re not going anywhere unless Hal Steinbrenner tells them to (and while that�s not expected, we�re still awaiting word, and there are no guarantees either way).

It�s player reaction to the toxicity that poses a tangible problem, and the Yankees know it. That�s one reason why the front office supports Boone�s relentless positivity when discussing players in public: Between fans in the stadium, social media and traditional media, the team figures that players have enough criticism in their day. It�s the modern manager�s job to provide an environment that serves as an escape from all that.

Cashman and his staff believe that Boone is the right person for that task. We will see if they retain the power to decide that.

The Yankees themselves created this problem long ago. George Steinbrenner�s oft-repeated theme, later adopted by Derek Jeter and others, that a season is a failure if it does not end in a championship has come to define the Yankee brand.

Now the clubhouse itself feels crushed under the weight of that brand. More than I�ve ever seen, players don�t want to be Yankees. The team needs to find a way to change the message and tone -- though after all these years, doing so might be near impossible.

davecrazy fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 26, 2022

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:00

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

mcmagic posted:

The point I've made here over and over again is that the yankees had a 200mm payroll 12 years ago. It clearly hasn't increased with the revenues. They are spending FAR less of a % of the revenue on the payroll as they used to. That is just a fact. They have used the luxury tax as a reason not to do player moves in a way the Steve Cohen Mets and the Dodgers just don't. Also their issue is clearly not just that they don't spend enough, they have done a terrible job allocating the money they do spend.

All of this is accurate and they, like drat near all MLB teams, ought to spend more.

The claim that they "don�t spend like the other teams at their level of revenue", though, was wholly inaccurate.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:06

LobsterMobster: Oct 29, 2009; "I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"

davecrazy posted:

https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1585286837089837057?s=20&t=BaIeKmR4HxzYZCRyym9_pA

Yankees toxic fan culture!

Imagine being such a poo poo head fanbase that you make Josh Donaldson into a sympathetic figure

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:14

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Apparently Boone and Cashman's pals inside baseball love them? Big if true.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:29

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

idk about Boone but I think at least right now the disconnect between fans and industry people regarding Cashman is that Cashman has historically been one of the best GM's in the league, but he honestly kinda stunk it up this year in some very visible ways. The Donaldson-Gio swap turned out to be a straight downgrade, big name SS's like Seager/Story/Correa were passed up in the offseason for a cheaper IKF trade who Cashman assured everybody would break out and then he didn't, the whole missing out on Castillo but still trading away Montgomery fiasco, and trading away one of their better and MLB-ready pitching prospects in Wesneski for Effross, only to see Effross quickly go down for 18 months needing TJS while Wesneski excelled with the Cubs down the stretch. And those are just the ones I remember as a casual outside observer, I'm sure mcmagic could crack open the ancient book of Yankee fan grudges and pile more on.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:34

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

All these weak players just can't stand to play in The Big Apple.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:35

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Sydin posted:

idk about Boone but I think at least right now the disconnect between fans and industry people regarding Cashman is that Cashman has historically been one of the best GM's in the league, but he honestly kinda stunk it up this year in some very visible ways. The Donaldson-Gio swap turned out to be a straight downgrade, big name SS's like Seager/Story/Correa were passed up in the offseason for a cheaper IKF trade who Cashman assured everybody would break out and then he didn't, the whole missing out on Castillo but still trading away Montgomery fiasco, and trading away one of their better and MLB-ready pitching prospects in Wesneski for Effross, only to see Effross quickly go down for 18 months needing TJS while Wesneski excelled with the Cubs down the stretch. And those are just the ones I remember as a casual outside observer, I'm sure mcmagic could crack open the ancient book of Yankee fan grudges and pile more on.

Basically every young player the Yankees produce (other than RP's) has gotten worse from year to year for the last 10 years.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:37

davecrazy: Nov 25, 2004; I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.

Derek Jeter himself said you either win a WS or your a failure. So if that mindset is good enough for El Capitan then it should be good enough for the current Yankee players.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:41

Gerblederp: Dec 4, 2009

*wheezing and with my fourth chin jiggling* Dey couldn�t uphold da honor of da pinstripes

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:45

illcendiary: Dec 4, 2005; Damn, this is good coffee.

Gerblederp posted:

*wheezing and with my fourth chin jiggling* Dey couldn�t uphold da honor of da pinstripes

Lol

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:46

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

There is no such thing as building a world series roster, there is building a playoff roster and then hoping for the best, the playoffs are completely random.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:48

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

R.D. Mangles posted:

There is no such thing as building a world series roster, there is building a playoff roster and then hoping for the best, the playoffs are completely random.

So the reason the Yankees keep losing to the same teams in the playoffs the same way is just pure luck? That reeks of bullshit.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:50

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

mcmagic posted:

So the reason the Yankees keep losing to the same teams in the playoffs the same way is just pure luck? That reeks of bullshit.

Yes

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:52

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Maybe you'll get em next year!

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:53

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# ? May 28, 2024 14:40

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

They just don't want it enough. Gotta get guys that want it instead of guys that don't want it.

# ? Oct 26, 2022 18:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > MLB Offseason: It's All About the Positions He Doesn't Play

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