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Either he police forged a check from Smollet to the guys who worked for him, coerced those guys to lie, deepfaked the footage of those guys buying the rope for the noose, then they beat up Smollet while shouting MAGA. Or Smollet lied for attention. It’s 50/50, we’ll never really know.
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Oct 29, 2022 03:20
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Either he police forged a check from Smollet to the guys who worked for him, coerced those guys to lie, deepfaked the footage of those guys buying the rope for the noose, then they beat up Smollet while shouting MAGA. Or Smollet lied for attention. I'mma be straight with you: The only thing that keeps me from believing that the police wouldn't commit the crimes you just listed is because I think they're too lazy.
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Oct 29, 2022 04:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:An actor who claimed he had been attacked by some unnamed people in Chicago for being gay, but it was later discovered that he had fabricated the whole incident An actor who everybody claimed faked it because he's black and gay, which a judge through out and expunged his record because the CPD had hosed up so badly, but wouldn't you know they got a second shot at him once poo poo died down and ~got their man~ Pissed Ape Sexist posted:Is there still any serious question as to whether or not that dude paid his personal trainers to fake a hate crime in order to boost his cred during the height of BLM or are you loving around? Like yeah ACAB but they didn't do a thing besides investigate a whole cloth scenario that doofus pooped out into the world CPD put twenty-four detectives on the case. Chicago PD ran torture black sites and probably still does. Chicago PD could have video of him walking us through every step of him faking it with 3 notaries and a priest signing off on every step and I would not believe them.
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Oct 29, 2022 04:25
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Jaxyon posted:An actor who everybody claimed faked it because he's black and gay, which a judge through out and expunged his record because the CPD had hosed up so badly, but wouldn't you know they got a second shot at him once poo poo died down and ~got their man~  Everybody claimed he faked it because the brothers who attacked him testified that it was staged. Nothing to do with racism/homophobia.And what do you mean his record has been expunged? Do you have a source for that? As far as I can tell, he wasn't even seeking that (seen here). E: Mis-remembered the charges being initially dismissed. I was thrown by you blaming CPD when it seemed like they had nothing to do with the dismissed charges. Thanks for the clarification, mastershakeman Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 07:09
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Smollet hosed up his fake crime bullshit so bad that I still gotta hear about that fuckhead every time the right needs a lazy whatabout about political violence or hate crimes Mostly I remember the noose
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Oct 29, 2022 08:12
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Staluigi posted:Smollet hosed up his fake crime bullshit so bad that I still gotta hear about that fuckhead every time the right needs a lazy whatabout about political violence or hate crimes It was a watershed case for chuds being able to discredit legitimate hate crimes because the victim was a dirty scumbag himself, like how they used Amber Heard to destroy the Me Too movement and how they're going to use Helena Taylor and the ongoing fallout from the Bayonetta 3 pay dispute debacle to smother any further pushes for fair compensation for video game voice over work (and fair treatment of people in the video game industry across the board while we're at it).
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Oct 29, 2022 08:33
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nine-gear crow posted:It was a watershed case for chuds being able to discredit legitimate hate crimes because the victim was a dirty scumbag himself, like how they used Amber Heard to destroy the Me Too movement and how they're going to use Helena Taylor and the ongoing fallout from the Bayonetta 3 pay dispute debacle to smother any further pushes for fair compensation for video game voice over work (and fair treatment of people in the video game industry across the board while we're at it). None of those were necessary for nor actually what caused any of those problems. We drat well know the chuds will invent stories as required and don't need proof, and MeToo was dead and buried long before the Depp trial.
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Oct 29, 2022 09:06
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I'm beginning to think the chuds really do have narrative control if we're relitigating Smollett again.
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Oct 29, 2022 11:18
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Pissed Ape Sexist posted:Is there still any serious question as to whether or not that dude paid his personal trainers to fake a hate crime in order to boost his cred during the height of BLM or are you loving around? Like yeah ACAB but they didn't do a thing besides investigate a whole cloth scenario that doofus pooped out into the world oh yeah! there is NO question, whether this gay black man in america who MIGHT be telling the truth about his attack at the hands of the white male patriarchy COULD be telling the truth in 2022, because the notoriously respectable Chigaco PD said otherwise. I'm sorry! I'm loving around! I'll back off from your chud bullshit opinions and put myself back in the corner. Again, I apologize. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) pencilhands fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 11:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's extremely possible that there's some intricacy involved that would change my opinion, but here's my take: if the healthcare funding is competently managed and if there's not some sort of weird sneaky addition, I don't think it really matters all that much that some of that funding would go to private schools. Those kids still need mental healthcare, and subject to the above criteria I don't think much if any of that money would wind up in private pockets. This is pretty much it. In florida there are a lot of problems with charter schools. The republican legisltature is working to get public money into private hands by having a voucher system so that a select few kids from poorer funded schools get to go to charter schools. I can only imagine that this mental healthcare is just going to be another poorly funded little aspect of school that goes to just the more wealthy schools. I just believe that if we are going to impose this tax, all the money should be going to public schools, especially those that are underperforming. If you have enough money to send your kid to a private school then you chances are you have healthcare whereas a lot of the kids going to public schools do not. Help the people that need it. Its a tough one because I do believe in the universality of benefits and regardless of money you should get it and the way to claw back those things from the rich is through higher taxes on them. I see this opening the door to allowing our taxes to go directly to private schools over public schools.
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Oct 29, 2022 12:05
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GoutPatrol posted:Are you calling for capital punishment about this? I'm not getting it. no. I just would expect him to have his license taken away or one of those alcohol blow tubes installed in his car. You know, the things that make it really difficult for poor people that make the same mistake.
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Oct 29, 2022 12:11
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I'm legitimately sorry I asked. It really ghouish of the right to try and equate a targeted attempted political assassination with an alleged attack that may or may not of been staged.
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Oct 29, 2022 12:35
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davecrazy posted:I'm legitimately sorry I asked. Well yeah. That's the point. They want to de-emphasise their obvious encouragement of the motivations of the attacker, same reason the media always goes with the 'lone wolf' narrative and blames school shootings on literally everything but the shooters literally all being white supremacists.
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Oct 29, 2022 12:51
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when you point at the manifestos they just double and triple down on that poo poo.
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Oct 29, 2022 13:45
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ManBoyChef posted:when you point at the manifestos they just double and triple down on that poo poo. Obviously the manifestos are proof that it was a false flag. Afterall, who would leave all sorts of evidence laying around like that? Y'know, unless they were a Democrat, in which case it obviously makes perfect sense and adds up seamlessly.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:00
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The Christchurch shooter left a manifesto full of obviously trolling bullshit hoping the media would seize on it, like they were inspired by Spyro the Dragon 3.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:18
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Freakazoid_ posted:I'm beginning to think the chuds really do have narrative control if we're relitigating Smollett again. There's multiple individual many-billion dollar propaganda engines and countless sources like local AM radio that exist specifically for this purpose so, yeah, they do have narrative control. Propaganda works.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:21
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I’m not sure what is so hard to understand here: If one wants to push and deliver their political agenda it requires propaganda. Propaganda requires folks to believe a thing is true even if it isn’t because the end goal isn’t about being correct in this one instance, it’s about the end result as a whole. I find it honestly shocking liberal minded folks have either not figured this out OR find the tactic unpalatable to embrace. If one cares about the end results, they should be more open to methods that would actually deliver those results. I find it odd that anyone would find the tactics of the right in this case shocking. Have a better game plan to control the narrative. bird food bathtub posted:There's multiple individual many-billion dollar propaganda engines and countless sources like local AM radio that exist specifically for this purpose so, yeah, they do have narrative control. Propaganda works. Exactly. If these tactics are beneath anyone who wants to see their political results delivered, then they will and should fail.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:25
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Jaxyon posted:An actor who everybody claimed faked it because he's black and gay, which a judge through out and expunged his record because the CPD had hosed up so badly, but wouldn't you know they got a second shot at him once poo poo died down and ~got their man~ Yes yes, you are very noble and unbiased, we are all in awe of how much you distrust CPD *pats head* Jussie is a bad dude for providing shitheads w additional fodder regarding faked hate crimes and for outing the Fantastic Nigerian Bodybuilding Bros
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Oct 29, 2022 14:31
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davecrazy posted:I'm legitimately sorry I asked. Right, Paul Pelosi actually deserved it.  moderator note: this is not a 'call to action' for political violence (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 29, 2022 14:33
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Yes yes, you are very noble and unbiased, we are all in awe of how much you distrust CPD *pats head* This is the exact type of thinking I’m talking about. Jaxyon, in my opinion, is more on the side of caring about the end results because of their stance that one should never hand it to the CPD (and gave great reasons as to why). Honestly I find the quote above to be odd because it reads more like someone who is in favor of the CPD. If that isn’t the intent, then please clarify. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 29, 2022 14:38
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:This is the exact type of thinking I’m talking about. At the very best, it's the kind of terminal  poisoning that kinda sums up the problem.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:45
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Kalit posted:
It wasn't an expungement but there was a wild start/end/restart of the case that went through a lot of litigation. If you really care you can dig it up, as it's quite complicated to explain. But basically the states attorney dismissed the case without the defendant saying he was sorry, gave a bunch of reasons why it was normal to do so, then the case got undismissed and prosecuted by someone else. And even after all that, he got a deal to not serve time during appeal which is unheard of. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-301113238.html This is as good a summary as any I have friends at the cook county pd office+appellate defenders office during this whole saga (who were even in the room during one of the first hearings, for their own cases) and got told about how their clients would constantly ask for the jussie treatment, and still do. The funniest part of all this is if the SA hadn't dropped the case like they did and did a normal sweetheart plea bargain with a celeb (say you're sorry + community service), then the whole thing goes away, no second prosecution, etc mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 15:00
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When people who aren't already aligned with the left or right react to stories like this, the tendency to be the "reasonable/moderate adult in the room" reigns supreme. A ton of folks feel the need to constantly triangulate between what they perceive as the two extremes. Our culture and media (including purposeful propaganda) dictates those parameters, thus the positions of the masses are produced and controlled simply by tweaking the narrative and discourse. And what a surprise, the insanity of the right is downplayed, and the part of "the left" will be played by a caricature drawn up by the right. Being pragmatic to build a working movement is one thing, but what I'm describing is the self as a brand. It's in the interest not of building a coalition, but painting a personal portrait that lets one feel more reasonable and realistic than those around them. South park-ism. "OH both sides are bad I'm in the middle" with no effort or interest in actually understanding the situation or participating in change. We'll be a world of shallow Twitter accounts and hot takes.
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Oct 29, 2022 15:32
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There’s no need to focus on fake crimes like Smollet, there are plenty of real crimes where the underlying political motivations are assumed to serve leftist worldviews. Gabby Giffords, the Pulse shooting, etc.
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Oct 29, 2022 15:34
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Yes yes, you are very noble and unbiased, we are all in awe of how much you distrust CPD *pats head* Who says I'm unbiased? Chicago PD is an evil force full of incredibly awful racists and abusers. quote:Jussie is a bad dude for providing shitheads w additional fodder regarding faked hate crimes and for outing the Fantastic Nigerian Bodybuilding Bros Racists don't need additional fodder for hate crimes, it literally doesn't matter at all because they're racists and will do this poo poo no matter what. Much like the Chicago PD is racist and will do this poo poo no matter what. Twenty four detectives. Sure, yeah, definitely Jussie did it that's why chicago PD mobilized half the force.
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Oct 29, 2022 17:48
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The person who assailed Paul Pelosi, breaking his skull and injuring his right hand, is being charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse, battery, burglary and several other felonies. There's no need to seriously entertain any claims that a Q dude using a hammer to crack the skull of the 82-year-old husband of a speaker is actually some kind of false flag. It's worth noting that the Pelosi attack isn't the only reason Smollett is trending, though. Katie Hobbs' campaign office was robbed the day before yesterday, and her opponent dismissed it as "Jussie Smollett Part 2" before launching into what CNN describes as "a lengthy rant against the media". It made it into all the news coverage tweets. It's not just Democrats being targeted, either! A few days ago, an openly white supremacist member of various hate groups with a history of picking fights against anti-racist activists got into a fight with a gang member while canvassing the neighborhood for Rubio. When he first reported it to the police, he didn't mention any political aspect to the crime, but after talking to his white supremacist buddies and to Rubio's team, they suddenly started claiming that the assailant shouted that Republicans weren't allowed in that neighborhood (which, incidentally, was known as a very GOP-leaning neighborhood), and he suddenly started repeating that story as well. It's been staying in the news all week, as the media dug into the claims and surfaced a bunch of suspicious stuff (with the help of Miami anti-fascists, who already knew that guy well). https://twitter.com/MIAagainstFash/status/1426398389651001347 FL GOP really bringing their best. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 18:34
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I’m not sure what is so hard to understand here: I think there's a difference between what you're labeling as "propaganda" versus what amounts to basic "advertising", even if the fine line and that distinction is increasingly slim. Or probably has always been that way really. But, if I'm reading you right, we're back to the old argument (that I agree with) that the democrats absolutely suck at messaging, which propaganda and advertiisng ARE. I'm not sure what's to be done about it beyond hammering the poo poo you KNOW you are right about and, as much as I loathe the right wing messaging machine, it's becoming increasingly clear that the left/dems/liberals almost have no choice but to get down into the muck and check their sense of shame and decorum at the proverbial door if they want anything at all to resonate in the popular discourse. It doesn't help much that what is ostensibly the left wing platform revolves around complicated issues that are hard to condense into a bumper sticker while, on the right, all you need to do is talk about Jesus, Guns, Bibles and say "freedom" a lot - and it's getting worse in the 40 words or less/tik tok/influencer world we live in where any issue we read about or listen to has to fit on a phone screen or a 3 minute video. Or during a 15 minute commute while casually listening to the radio. Republicans understand this because they're sales people at heart driven by profit as a means unto itself, centered on power and control and not the collective good. The thing that really gets my goat is when the dems have a winning issue that actually COULD be boiled down to a simple slogan and still manage to gently caress it up (Explaining = losing and all that) or just ignore it entirely until they sense the political winds have shifted rather generating any sort of wind on their own or being out ahead on issues. I think of things like Hillary using "I'm With Her" over "She's With Us", pushing harder and earlier on legalizing weed, getting out in front of gay issues and certainly, going back, being more assertive and vocal in opposing the Iraq War.
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Oct 29, 2022 19:20
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BiggerBoat posted:I think there's a difference between what you're labeling as "propaganda" versus what amounts to basic "advertising", even if the fine line and that distinction is increasingly slim. Or probably has always been that way really. But, if I'm reading you right, we're back to the old argument (that I agree with) that the democrats absolutely suck at messaging, which propaganda and advertiisng ARE. the discussion presupposes that democrats are principledly opposed to lying to people in order to get their votes. we have seen each of "we will codify roe vs. wade," "we will cut you $2000 checks," "we will forgive student debt," "we will shut down the concentration camps," "we will do literally anything about the american health care system," and "we will cure cancer" in very recent memory. democrats do not have a problem with refusing to make use of propaganda. they have a problem with what they choose to propagandize.
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Oct 29, 2022 20:53
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Main Paineframe posted:FL GOP really bringing their best. I mean who hasn't heard of the deep blue parts of Florida that are basically sundown towns to peaceful white conservatives?
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Oct 29, 2022 20:56
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Jaxyon posted:Who says I'm unbiased? Chicago PD is an evil force full of incredibly awful racists and abusers. It should be standard to openly mock anyone who claims they are “unbiased” or complains about bias. Everyone who is politically active has a bias based being alive and observing the world. It’s like complaining that someone breathes air. BiggerBoat posted:it's becoming increasingly clear that the left/dems/liberals almost have no choice but to get down into the muck and check their sense of shame and decorum at the proverbial door if they want anything at all to resonate in the popular discourse. I’d argue that anyone that has an issue with this in the first place never actually was invested in the political outcomes they claim to support. If one truly believes in the effective outcome of a political or moral goal, very little should be off the table, let alone basic forms of propaganda. Politically active / minded people really need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves what the gently caress they truly want if something as simple as questionable advertisement tactics are a step too far to achieve what they want. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:democrats do not have a problem with refusing to make use of propaganda. they have a problem with what they choose to propagandize. Exactly. It’s why people need to look at the effective outcomes FIRST.
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Oct 29, 2022 21:01
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:It should be standard to openly mock anyone who claims they are “unbiased” or complains about bias. Everyone who is politically active has a bias based being alive and observing the world. It’s like complaining that someone breathes air. Agreed
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Oct 29, 2022 21:14
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We shouldn't believe liars. 
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Oct 29, 2022 21:24
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Eason the Fifth posted:We shouldn't believe liars. If a liar tells you the factual truth should you really believe them? 
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Oct 29, 2022 22:03
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:If a liar tells you the factual truth should you really believe them? Only after confirming it with his brother, who always tells the truth
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Oct 29, 2022 22:14
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haveblue posted:Only after confirming it with his brother, who always tells the truth Really should have asked them to begin with, now that we bring him up...
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Oct 29, 2022 22:39
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the discussion presupposes that democrats are principledly opposed to lying to people in order to get their votes. I don't presuppose that at all and don't think I implied it. Hell, if you want to throw just lying to people into the mix regarding what I wrote, you can still do better messaging those lies and they can't even do that well. The "$2000 checks" is a perfect example of how they gently caress this poo poo up because, like you pointed out, they gently caress it up and have to go "well, technically, you already received $600 so another $1400 = $2,000" and, yay, you received a month's rent. Republicans flat out lie about everything, are shameless about it and when caught or called out will claim fake news or just deny even ever saying it. I don't want Democrats to do that. Even the few Democrats that I actually like suck out loud at what I'm talking about here whereas almost every Republican I see understands the game almost to a person. Politics is the art of marketing. No different than selling a case of Coca Cola
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Oct 29, 2022 23:01
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BiggerBoat posted:The "$2000 checks" is a perfect example of how they gently caress this poo poo up because, like you pointed out, they gently caress it up and have to go "well, technically, you already received $600 so another $1400 = $2,000" and, yay, you received a month's rent. Typically we call this a “lie”. Dems do it all the time. They have a massive army of liberal assholes who value being smug and “right” more than supporting the causes they claim they support. This is unlike the right which: quote:flat out lie about everything, are shameless about it and when caught or called out will claim fake news or just deny even ever saying it. Because unlike liberals (or maybe because liberals are easily swindled, I don’t know) the right actually understands the importance of effective outcomes and will do what it takes to get there. It’s just that their effective outcome sucks because it’s a white nationalist ethnostate. Guess what? They are winning as a result. Dems are technically winning too because their effective outcomes are to keep capitalism and neoliberalism as the dominate forces in the world. Liberals are either willing participants in this or really loving naive/stupid. quote:
If you don’t want folks who support causes you agree with to do this, then you admit defeat. Lucky for you, when it comes to Dems, it’s too late. They do it every time they are attacked from the left or attack the left. See:
If Dems and libs actually gave the slightest gently caress about marginalized groups, dismantling white nationalism baked into the constitution and judicial system, and removing the chains of capitalism, they’d actually use every drat option available to do it like they do against leftists. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 23:33
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We just released the oldest person held at guantanamo Bay. Two DECADES without a single charge. Just putting fuckers up in cold storage lol
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Oct 30, 2022 00:22
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Bear Enthusiast posted:Really should have asked them to begin with, now that we bring him up... I dunno about you, but I can never tell them apart.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:32
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