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Nitrox posted:Did anyone confirm the video posted earlier? Which video?
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Oct 29, 2022 20:56
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Cicero posted:The 'suicide' is obviously in comparison to drones that don't blow themselves up. But yeah at that point there's not a huge distinction between 'suicide drone' and 'slow missile'. There's distinction between a loitering munition, a drone that spends time at an area looking for targets and eventually hit something, and a guided missile that is launched and keeps flying and can't spend time looking for better targets. Both 'suicide' but it's useful to distinguish if they can wait for targets or not. Suicide drone is just technically misleading (especially if it evokes images of Japanese kamikaze weapons) and doesn't tell much about what it does.
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Oct 29, 2022 21:03
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Nenonen posted:There's distinction between a loitering munition, a drone that spends time at an area looking for targets and eventually hit something, and a guided missile that is launched and keeps flying and can't spend time looking for better targets. Both 'suicide' but it's useful to distinguish if they can wait for targets or not. Suicide drone to me would be a drone platform that has munitions it fires off then when those are exhausted goes and rams something.
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Oct 29, 2022 23:09
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it's just an issue of poor terminology where nothing clearer has been agreed upon/become the common way of referring to them. I suspect we'll end up referring to them as 'drone munitions' or something eventually because the drone firing munitions vs drone as the munition is ofc the core distinction. It's about to get a lot worse because we're going to have drones that launch drone submunitions soon enough.
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Oct 29, 2022 23:22
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Nenonen posted:There's distinction between a loitering munition, a drone that spends time at an area looking for targets and eventually hit something, and a guided missile that is launched and keeps flying and can't spend time looking for better targets. Both 'suicide' but it's useful to distinguish if they can wait for targets or not. I think the point was "suicide" in the name makes a distinction between something like a loitering munition and a drone that flies off, launches its payload, and then comes back, like a Bayraktar or even those consumer drones they modified to drop grenades. And maybe suicide isn't the best technical term for it but I can see the value in a distinction between a drone that blows itself up as part of its mission and one the doesn't.
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Oct 29, 2022 23:31
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Bremen posted:And maybe suicide isn't the best technical term for it but I can see the value in a distinction between a drone that blows itself up as part of its mission and one the doesn't. This has already been brought up. You can call it a loitering munition. Or you can can call it a guided missile.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:03
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it's additionally confusing with the shahed drones because shahed means martyr in farsi
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Oct 30, 2022 00:04
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I hate the term “suicide X” because it gets confused with “suicide bomber” and the like. I don’t think anything should be called a suicide munition unless it involves someone driving up in a truck and blowing themselves up. Like, would you call driving a remote-operated car to a location and blowing it up to be a “suicide car bomb?” Of course not, because of how confusing that would be.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:28
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Nenonen posted:This has already been brought up. You can call it a loitering munition. Or you can can call it a guided missile. Or killer robot 
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Oct 30, 2022 00:34
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When you think about it, all bullets are murder-suicide bullets.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:36
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https://twitter.com/sssmirnov/status/1586322277490372608 Completely nuts story about general Lapin threatening with a pistol to summarily execute a mobilised lieutenant who pulled his company from artillery fire, to get him and his troops back to frontline.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:40
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News organizations use the term "suicide drone" because the word "suicide" generates more clicks and ad revenue. That's it. It's definitely an inaccurate term. Also, "unmanned, guided, long-range munitions" takes too many characters. Even surface-based unmanned, guided, long-range munitions should give the world's navies pause. Let's say we get the cost of them down to ~$25,000 USD. You could get 7,200 of those for the price of one modern US destroyer. Assuming you can manage the electronic environment, imagine a swarm of 1,000 of those things attacking a carrier battle group (US or Chinese, take your pick). I'm not sure the CBG comes out ahead in that exchange. I'm oversimplifying and there are lots of variables (electronic warfare, range, etc.), but this war will likely change every theatre other than (maybe) space at this rate.
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Oct 30, 2022 01:31
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quote:Even surface-based unmanned, guided, long-range munitions should give the world's navies pause. Let's say we get the cost of them down to ~$25,000 USD. You could get 7,200 of those for the price of one modern US destroyer. Assuming you can manage the electronic environment, imagine a swarm of 1,000 of those things attacking a carrier battle group (US or Chinese, take your pick). I'm not sure the CBG comes out ahead in that exchange. No but seriously, medium sized drones with even infantry caliber weapons seem like they would work? The drone missiles in question are slow and not particularly well-armored, right?
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Oct 30, 2022 02:03
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Cicero posted:Clearly the solution is a swarm of somewhat larger and faster drones equipped with dual MP5's. Pew pew! Shahed 136, Wiki claims 115 mph max speed - so basically a long-range Cessna.
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Oct 30, 2022 02:49
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Which video? The one with spliced footage apparently from multiple drones, where one had someone trying to shoot one from a helicopter?
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Oct 30, 2022 03:40
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Sucrose posted:I hate the term “suicide X” because it gets confused with “suicide bomber” and the like. I don’t think anything should be called a suicide munition unless it involves someone driving up in a truck and blowing themselves up. Like, would you call driving a remote-operated car to a location and blowing it up to be a “suicide car bomb?” Of course not, because of how confusing that would be. This. The imagery the name generates also helps with Russia trying to label them as terrorist acts.
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Oct 30, 2022 08:03
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Which video? I assume this one: https://twitter.com/JamWaterhouse/status/1586358395933970433?t=FRa1XT2js5D-YRW2RkU8MQ&s=19
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Oct 30, 2022 08:23
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Cicero posted:Clearly the solution is a swarm of somewhat larger and faster drones equipped with dual MP5's. Pew pew! https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1585279195038588929?t=Q79j2ju2RxAUtQZtN58BSg&s=19 Possibly bullshit. At any rate I feel like you'd want a system which can chase the Iranian drones down which these seem unlikely to be able to do.
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Oct 30, 2022 08:46
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/\/\/\ I was thinking more like a Bayraktar with a machine gun.Franks Happy Place posted:I assume this one:
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Oct 30, 2022 08:47
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General Lapin being sacked is very good because the precedent of a military commander getting the boot based on whining of a convicted robber (Prigozhin) and a local warlord the likes of which most of the brass spend their early-mid career fighting (Kadyrov) is going to hit the morale of leadership. No chance of revolt, obviously, but officers not willing to fight 100% for someone who despises them is a good sign for Ukraine (and Russian people as well).
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Oct 30, 2022 09:11
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Owling Howl posted:https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1585279195038588929?t=Q79j2ju2RxAUtQZtN58BSg&s=19 I would bet money that the picture is bullshit. https://www.smart-shooter.com/products/ The implication is that Ukranians got the SMASH Dragon system, which is some sort of automated aiming device that completed live firing tests in January. The drone pictured is probably some engineering setup they used to get through their internal trials and used for press releases. Maybe some RnD outfit got a couple demo units to make the press release technically true (which looks to be small automated gimbal you can put whatever weapon you want on) but I highly doubt there's operational units being deployed in Ukraine anytime soon.
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Oct 30, 2022 09:16
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Haven't seen anything public about what precisely is blowing up, but there's been major Israeli air strikes in or around Damascus several times in the last week. At least one blew up an IRGC warehouse. https://twitter.com/QalaatM/status/1586292989525360640 (strikes on 22, 24, 27th, possibly more) fatherboxx posted:General Lapin being sacked is very good because the precedent of a military commander getting the boot based on whining of a convicted robber (Prigozhin) and a local warlord the likes of which most of the brass spend their early-mid career fighting (Kadyrov) is going to hit the morale of leadership. No chance of revolt, obviously, but officers not willing to fight 100% for someone who despises them is a good sign for Ukraine (and Russian people as well). Amazing that a general can lose his job because of telegram drama, basically. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Oct 30, 2022 |
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Oct 30, 2022 09:23
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Owling Howl posted:Or killer robot How Swedish. https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_(vapen)
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Oct 30, 2022 10:45
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Nitrox posted:Did anyone confirm the video posted earlier? cinci zoo sniper posted:Which video? Franks Happy Place posted:I assume this one: Thread reader link... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1586460379697348608.html It goes through each of the videos (those posted till time of the thread anyway)
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Oct 30, 2022 10:53
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Franks Happy Place posted:I assume this one: I love the dudes abandoning ship at 0:44. SolarFire2 fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Oct 30, 2022 |
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Oct 30, 2022 12:20
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I love how the combined firepower of the Sevastopol naval base can't bring down a motorized canoe
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Oct 30, 2022 12:27
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steinrokkan posted:I love how the combined firepower of the Sevastopol naval base can't bring down a motorized canoe Wikipedia posted:"Soon after the cruise missile offensive, another significant portion of Blue's navy was "sunk" by an armada of small Red boats, which carried out both conventional and suicide attacks that capitalized on Blue's inability to detect them as well as expected."
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Oct 30, 2022 13:17
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's an interesting echo of Millennium Challenge 2002, maybe lessons were learned. Probably not from that exercise, where the scrappy little underdog actually won because the simulation glitched and teleported the enemy on top of the US Navy after turning the Navy's defensive systems off.
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Oct 30, 2022 13:58
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's an interesting echo of Millennium Challenge 2002, maybe lessons were learned. Yeah, except that's an old and tired lie that originated due to interpersonal rivalries in the military and later was latched onto and propagandized as part of the war on "decadent and weak west" waged by, among others, Russian agents. So pls don't spread it.
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Oct 30, 2022 14:25
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, except that's an old and tired lie that originated due to interpersonal rivalries in the military and later was latched onto and propagandized as part of the war on "decadent and weak west" waged by, among others, Russian agents. Oh yeah for sure, there's a lot of bullshit around that (especially the "motorcycle couriers") I just find it interesting that someone found a way to make "tiny boat swarm attack" actually work in the real world.
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Oct 30, 2022 14:28
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Oh yeah for sure, there's a lot of bullshit around that (especially the "motorcycle couriers") I just find it interesting that someone found a way to make "tiny boat swarm attack" actually work in the real world. I think the main point is that swarm attacks work if there isn't anyone actually driving the stuff that is very much expected to blow up horribly. Also, they can drive straight through waves at a speed that would give serious concussions at a meat based being.
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Oct 30, 2022 14:46
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Oh yeah for sure, there's a lot of bullshit around that (especially the "motorcycle couriers") I just find it interesting that someone found a way to make "tiny boat swarm attack" actually work in the real world. It's been working for over a century.
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Oct 30, 2022 15:00
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Oh yeah for sure, there's a lot of bullshit around that (especially the "motorcycle couriers") I just find it interesting that someone found a way to make "tiny boat swarm attack" actually work in the real world. This doesn't appear to have been more than handful of drone boats verified in this attack. Certainly nothing approaching the fleet of little speedboats with bigass radar guided anti-shipping missiles glued to them, communicating via flashing lights/telepaths that Van Riper dreamed up. I'm not sure how much of a "swarm" was being used here as opposed to a few pretty stealthy little boats. It worked likely because these things would be hard as hell to spot in the dark with sensors or eyeballs. The one that is under fire from the Mi-17 doorgunner (and eventually probably 30mm cannon) until footage cuts out got caught near the shore after sunrise, in easy viewing distance from the shore (or air). There's cellphone footage from some rando on shore of that one being attacked and exploding, and it sticks out against the sea pretty badly in daylight. Big bang when it went up, though, so the ships that got hit are gonna be in pretty bad shape. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 30, 2022 |
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Oct 30, 2022 15:03
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's been working for over a century. Yeah "quietly fire a bunch of
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Oct 30, 2022 15:07
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https://twitter.com/leifnixon/status/1586667585201967105
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Oct 30, 2022 15:52
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Yeah do we know if the boat attack actually did anything?
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Oct 30, 2022 16:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah do we know if the boat attack actually did anything? No. It ranges from random Twitter accounts proclaiming multiple ships sunk to the Russian MOD saying there's minor damage to one minesweeper.
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Oct 30, 2022 16:27
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Apparently, Russia has absconded with Grigory Potemkin's bones. The were interred in Kherson. edit: 3:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6pp2Xpg5sM&t=190s
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Oct 30, 2022 17:22
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Automatic Slim posted:Apparently, Russia has absconded with Grigory Potemkin's bones. The were interred in Kherson. Ash, but yeah.
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Oct 30, 2022 17:36
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