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Motronic posted:That is not the ground. In fact it's likely to be the hot. Of course it's hot, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why there's effectively two things attached to one terminal on the old switch.
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Oct 24, 2022 04:11
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HootTheOwl posted:Of course it's hot, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why there's effectively two things attached to one terminal on the old switch. Motronic's reply makes the most sense IMO "That top wire there that's been stripped and wrapped around, that's also the ground right?" Why would that wire, the wire you just said "of course it's hot" also be the ground???  If it's a hot it may be secured to the terminal screw in such a way where it's feeding something else through the electrical box. I am not an electrician and this is not advice.
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Oct 24, 2022 05:01
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Inner Light posted:"That top wire there that's been stripped and wrapped around, that's also the ground right?" We're in agreement?
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Oct 24, 2022 12:22
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No they’re questioning and disagreeing your definition of ground.
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Oct 24, 2022 12:29
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Please don't take this personally but the questions you're asking are about concepts so basic that they themselves make it clear you do not have the understanding of principles to do this safely. And that's okay! It's okay not to know things you weren't taught! But we are posting from a place of love and concern and you need to let this project go before you hurt yourself and get down to the local community college and get some hands on instruction before you open another switch box.
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Oct 24, 2022 12:53
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HootTheOwl posted:Of course it's hot, that's not what I'm asking. OK but you then asked if it was also ground? Confusing hot and ground is... not something that people familiar with house wiring do. The issue everyone is trying to tell you is that your wiring isn't straight forward from a single picture. You really need to know what everything else is wired to and what the rest of the circuit looks like, and that's absolutely not clear from the picture you posted. HootTheOwl posted:I'm asking why there's effectively two things attached to one terminal on the old switch. It's no different from a pigtail, it's just a... way to do it. I'm not an electrician, but my understanding is that it's considered lazy by those in the trade. Motronic posted:Do you have 120v in that box also? Because I'd be going right for a contactor (ie relay) with the control side on a standard zwave switch and the the load side closing your fireplace contacts. Will that all fit in a 1-gang, or are you locating the contactor elsewhere? I'm going to run in to the same problem eventually with my fireplace. Was going to use a Caseta/RA3 switch when I eventually go that route, but this solution intrigues me (particularly because I don't actually know if my fireplace switch box has 120v in it or not, which would dramatically change my approach).
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Oct 24, 2022 13:23
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DaveSauce posted:Will that all fit in a 1-gang, or are you locating the contactor elsewhere? I'm going to run in to the same problem eventually with my fireplace. Was going to use a Caseta/RA3 switch when I eventually go that route, but this solution intrigues me (particularly because I don't actually know if my fireplace switch box has 120v in it or not, which would dramatically change my approach). That's the real question. A metal expandable box from the 60s? Hell no (all the zwave switches I've worked with are HUGE). A deep modern plastic box? With the right contactor sure.....I'm having no luck finding one online, but I've found them at the supply house before. They are similar in size to some of the zwave/wifi relays that were mentioned earlier in the thread. As usual, the best solution is going to depend on a bunch of site and installation specific stuff. Like if you can get into a basement under that thing you could throw a standard HVAC contactor in a box attached to a joist with a piece of romex running to it from the switch and your fireplace control wiring pulled back through the floor. But having easy access to do all of that is pretty much the dream scenario.
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Oct 24, 2022 14:08
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HootTheOwl posted:Of course it's hot, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why there's effectively two things attached to one terminal on the old switch. You're into pro territory here, or taking a class on how this all works. There is a popular black and decker book that can get you started. The part everyone is intentionally ducking is that is 1 wire installed in the laziest worst way. The rest of the horrors (read: hazards, see thread title) you won't recognize. That is why we're all saying in unity - hire someone. We just don't want to burn your house down.
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Oct 24, 2022 15:50
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Motronic posted:Do you have 120v in that box also? Because I'd be going right for a contactor (ie relay) with the control side on a standard zwave switch and the the load side closing your fireplace contacts. Sorry, critical detail that I left out. All that's in this box are these three 24AWG wires going to my fireplace. Utility power is on another box on the other side of the fireplace (of course). devicenull posted:These things exist, and look like what you want (assuming correct voltages & a power supply). It looks like they'll support a local switch too - https://kb.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-plus-1 This looks interesting. I need to check the pinout of the other wires in the cable and see if I have 24Vdc or something to use.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:51
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Final update on the solar. Electrician rolled in today, wired the inverter/mppt, transformer, added a load switch for a future generator, then to the panel, ground-neutral bond relocated to the load switch. New panels are pushing 425v at 30° angle. And he added a breaker to the box to re-use the old supply from the shed as a circuit back to the shed, needed an outlet to run heating mats for the batteries. Everything works, basic settings made on the Growatt, panels are off at the dc disconnect until morning, going to see if the batteries hit cutoff tonight. Tomorrow we strip the 12v system out of the shed, take down the old panels, and we're getting a $100 credit from the electrician for dropping the 12v batteries at his shop. Bill is going to come in around a grand less than the quote because we did so much of the laborious poo poo (assembly, trenching, etc) ourselves. Everything passes his sniff test. Here's to hoping the house doesn't burn down.
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Oct 25, 2022 01:28
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I checked the first post and didn't see it but do y'all have a good website to buy electrical supplies online like supplyhouse.com for plumbing? Looking to start doing some major rewiring, I have found some egregious bullshit in my attic and want to plan it out and make a cart and all that. ( And before buying, going to talk to my local inspector office first). Edit: I will leave my dumbassery here as a reminder to myself in the future. Turns out supplyhouse also does electrical. LOL. ptier fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Oct 27, 2022 |
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Oct 27, 2022 20:11
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ptier posted:I checked the first post and didn't see it but do y'all have a good website to buy electrical supplies online like supplyhouse.com for plumbing? Looking to start doing some major rewiring, I have found some egregious bullshit in my attic and want to plan it out and make a cart and all that. ( And before buying, going to talk to my local inspector office first). Have you considered supplyhouse.com?
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Oct 28, 2022 01:06
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devicenull posted:Have you considered supplyhouse.com? 
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Oct 28, 2022 01:36
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I've recently moved from Europe to the US, and have a question about a light fixture in our apartment that came with the place that is ridiculously dim. It is a 3-bulb pendant fixture, with 60W bulbs screwed in. There isn't an obvious dimmer anywhere that I can see, the switch at the wall is a standard on/off one. The bulbs say "rough service 60W 133V supreme" and there is a sticker on the light fixture with a maximum 100W warning. I'm currently stumped, not knowing much about electrics and less about US electrics. Thought I'd post to ask before I contact the landlord with a WTF – could be useful to have a direction to go on rather than calling them with vague "uhh, light dim, me dumb"
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Oct 30, 2022 15:16
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Nothing sounds obviously wrong, but I'd try replacing at least one of the bulbs with a standard 60-watt equivalent LED and see if it's significantly brighter than the existing bulbs. Just another thought: are you 100% sure it's a standard non-dimmable switch? There are a few different kinds that are somewhat non-obvious that you wouldn't see outside of the US. Like a toggle style that has a very small slider next to the toggle switch or "fancier" decora style switches that have a handful of different ways to dim them including a touch sensitive part on one side. Also, in a 3-way switch scenario the dimmer is only on one switch. So if there is more than one switch that works for these lights check both of them for dimmers.
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Oct 30, 2022 15:33
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Thanks, it did occur to me that perhaps the previous tenant took their expensive long life LEDs with them and replaced with any old incandescents as they left. But it turns out your assumption was right. I don't think I'd ever have noticed the tiny slider next to the flip switch! Holy hell, I feel dumb (but also glad I didn't call the landlord).
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Oct 30, 2022 15:50
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Yeah, don't feel bad. It's really really not obvious. I've had to point them out to multiple people over the years.
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Oct 30, 2022 15:55
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Motronic posted:Yeah, don't feel bad. It's really really not obvious. I've had to point them out to multiple people over the years. PO had put in these especially dreadful toggle-looking dimmers where the toggle IS the dimmer. it can sit at any position between on and off and just looks like a broken toggle
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Oct 30, 2022 20:31
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Apologies if this is the wrong thread. I have a decently sized heated greenhouse that I inherited from the previous owner. He was really into orchids and a long time ago installed 4 large metal halide light fixtures along with sizeable ballasts. They've been out in the greenhouse for years now, which, while enclosed, is still very muggy for a large part of the year since I live on the Oregon coast. The metal frame of the ballast is pretty rusty. My question is if there's a way for me to know if the set up is still safe? I don't really know what the failure modes here and don't want to use them if they're a fire hazard . Given their age and weight, I'm assuming they're magnetic ballasts.
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Oct 31, 2022 05:45
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I'm trying to determine whether what I'm trying to do is both safe and meets code. I'm finishing my basement, and due to budget constraints there are a few items I'm not going to be able to do right now, but that I'd like to abandon some wires in the wall to enable it in the future. One of those projects is there are some accent lighting, via LED lighting strips. These strips tend to work by having a power transformer that turns the 120V mains into 12V or 24V, and sends it down low voltage wiring. The wrinkle is that these are color changing strips so they actually need up to 5 conductors to control RGB + White. Typically folks are using something like Fire Alarm, Security, or Thermostat wire. What I'm unsure of is that I'm seeing a lot of conflicting information. I've seen a number of people saying that the NEC calls out lighting circuits specifically so that even LV lighting, when concealed within a wall, is governed under Chapter 3 which wouldn't allow the use of the typical multi conductor wire that most people use. Reading through the NEC, it appears that is true *unless* the power supply is a class 2 rated power supply, in which case something like the thermostat/security wire is fine (which limits you to 60W under 12V or 100W under 24V). Is my understanding correct? Am I good to just abandon something like 18/5 thermostat wire in the wall (disconnected on both ends of course) for this future use?
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Nov 1, 2022 03:32
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ptier posted:I checked the first post and didn't see it but do y'all have a good website to buy electrical supplies online like supplyhouse.com for plumbing? Looking to start doing some major rewiring, I have found some egregious bullshit in my attic and want to plan it out and make a cart and all that. ( And before buying, going to talk to my local inspector office first). I ordered some THHN last year from https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/ and had a good experience. Good prices, quick shipping, and I was able to get exactly what I needed.
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Nov 1, 2022 15:00
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ptier posted:I checked the first post and didn't see it but do y'all have a good website to buy electrical supplies online like supplyhouse.com for plumbing? Looking to start doing some major rewiring, I have found some egregious bullshit in my attic and want to plan it out and make a cart and all that. ( And before buying, going to talk to my local inspector office first). there's almost certainly someplace local to you with no web presence and better pricing
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Nov 1, 2022 15:35
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So I have a pair of light switches, one is a single pole for a stair light, the other is a single pole for some lights above a counter. I was going to replace them with some wifi switches. I turned off the circuits such that they stopped turning the lights on, but upon untangling the wires to figure out what's going on, I found a total of 6 Romex cables coming into the box. One pair of wires is labeled "UP 3-WAY," so I know that's for the stairs, and another is labeled "BACK DOOR," and I don't know what that means because its black wire was tied into the ground on one of the light switches. Yes, a black wire was on the green ground screw. A third pair is labeled "?," which I find hilarious, but the wires weren't connected to anything else so I can just leave it alone. 4 grounds were tied into each other and I'll probably want to reconnect them at the end of this. The neutral connections are my only real clue to what's meant to continue to what. I've gathered that the black and red wires on the two brass screws should go to my line/load (both black and apparently interchangeable on the new light switch. Hence the ground and neutral that come from the same cable should go to that light switch. But I have a set of 3 and another set of 2 neutrals twisted together (the old switches didn't take a neutral) and it seems like I need to reconnect them after connecting one with the switch. Am I on the right track here? I can add pics when they finish uploading on imgur
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Nov 1, 2022 19:42
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You should have stuffed all of that back in the box and pretended you didn't open it this is some eldritch horror is there a mystery switch anywhere at the top of the stairs? Guessing there was a three-way switch setup at that light which broke and the PO replaced it, in a hellaciously wrong fashion, somehow, with a single pole. You're gonna need a tone probe to unfuck this don't trust the colors shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 19:58
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No, it's just the one switch upstairs, and it's the other part of the three way. My guess is that some of the other stuff goes up to the bedroom that the previous owner added (unpermitted). The light switch and outlets in that room are currently active, but there are 2 solid faceplates that could be from when they screwed up on their first attempt. The switches are also near the thermostat, so one cable could be from a "comfort zone" dial in the bedroom that I wasn't sure actually does anything. I appreciate the thread's subtitle, because I am *assuming* that the black on ground was just a fluke and that the original switches didn't  need a ground because one of them didn't have anything on its ground screw. But I promise I won't act like I have it all fixed up. Any good resources on using a tone probe?I made an appointment with an electrician to figure it out, but I want to see how far I can get in the meantime Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 20:14
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Is there any real reason to go above 50a on a car charger outlet? I'm thinking of having a 14-50R put in as part of some other work. The only reason I was thinking 14-50R is so I can easily get 120V out of later if I end up wanting some giant garage appliance. I guess I could get them to do a subpanel instead, but adding a subpanel later seems like it would be pretty easy with 50a wiring already there. devicenull fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 19:07
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devicenull posted:I guess I could get them to do a subpanel instead, but adding a subpanel later seems like it would be pretty easy with 50a wiring already there. Seeing as I'm going to be doing this exact project with a 14-50 the PO installed to support their giant-rear end welder... yeah, there's no reason not to run the neutral unless you're trying to be exceptionally cheap.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:59
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IOwnCalculus posted:Seeing as I'm going to be doing this exact project with a 14-50 the PO installed to support their giant-rear end welder... yeah, there's no reason not to run the neutral unless you're trying to be exceptionally cheap. Yea, I was mainly just talking about the sizing... I'm hopefully having a solar system w/ battery put in, so they're going to be doing *plenty* of electrical work. It doesn't look like there's a compelling reason to go above 50a. Even if I put in a subpanel later, I'm currently just fine with 2x20a circuits in the garage.
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Nov 4, 2022 00:37
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Oh, yeah, that too. 50A will cover a lot of garage loads, and you could still hang a 14-30 off of a 30A breaker on the subpanel for a smaller EVSE instead while still leaving plenty of overhead for whatever actual load is on the 20A circuits. Unless you have no other power in the garage today and you need to run an assload of machinery simultaneously, I'd go with 50A. In my case the existing 14-50 would be perfect for an EV, if I actually had one and was going to garage it. I don't have one and the garage is full of gas-burning dinosaurs and always will be, so subpanel it is. I might eventually put a mini-split in the garage too, though at that point I could probably just string that circuit back to the main panel instead of the subpanel. I'm also lucky in that the two spots where I would park an EV are easy-mode to install an EVSE to. My main panel is driveway-adjacent, and over by the front door there's a 14-50 (on a 40A breaker for some reason) that the PO used for a travel trailer hookup.
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Nov 4, 2022 01:16
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In-laws had a mysterious light bar (I didn't see it before they took it down) which left this connector coming out of the wall on a foot of wire. They bought a cheap corded led light bar and asked me to install it.  No problem let me just take the cover off and see what the ballast situation   120vac on the metal pins via low awg wires. Was this ever "correct"? Or did someone grab a daisy chain connector and go to town on the wrong side? It's a nema outlet now. With no cover I was out. It's 7' up I'll buy a cover tomorrow.
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Nov 4, 2022 03:05
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bergeoisie posted:Apologies if this is the wrong thread. I have a decently sized heated greenhouse that I inherited from the previous owner. He was really into orchids and a long time ago installed 4 large metal halide light fixtures along with sizeable ballasts. They've been out in the greenhouse for years now, which, while enclosed, is still very muggy for a large part of the year since I live on the Oregon coast. The metal frame of the ballast is pretty rusty. My question is if there's a way for me to know if the set up is still safe? I don't really know what the failure modes here and don't want to use them if they're a fire hazard . Given their age and weight, I'm assuming they're magnetic ballasts. Failure modes of MH lamps/fixtures: Run the bulb way past its rated life, bulb explodes (not in a shower of sparks way - the glass just pops - this is why MH fixtures are enclosed - but you'll need a change of pants if you're standing near a fixture when it happens) Light just kinda flickers and buzzes - either bad bulb or ignitor Nothing happens at all, may or may not buzz - could be bulb, ignitor, ballast, any of the above. If the wiring is suspected to be in okay shape, I'd probably just keep a fire extinguisher handy and try turning them on, letting them warm up. Good bulbs should reach close to full brightness in <5 minutes. Worn out bulbs will take a bit longer (also higher wattage ones will take a bit longer). But that's if it were my own personal greenhouse. You'll probably see them color shift a bit as they warm up too, and they'll glow reddish-orange for a bit after being turned off. Just don't leave them unattended the first time you use them. I'm sure Motronic will be along to tell me how wrong I am about some of this. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 4, 2022 06:59
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Re: 14-50 for car charger plus possible future sub-panel. I'm going to be the guy that disagrees and says you should at least ask what the cost difference is to run a 100amp feeder if you think you might want a sub-panel in there later. I don't know how long this run is but the cost difference of the cable is possibly negligible against the cost of the total project. There are already cars out there that can take advantage of more than 50 amps for L2 charging, and having the option to charge 2 EVs overnight may one day be an expected nicety. The PO of my house had a 50-amp sub-panel installed in the basement garage and within 2 years of living here I ended up re-running a bigger feeder, the actual cable cost was nothing compared to the time spent tearing open drywall and running it then fixing everything.
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Nov 4, 2022 07:24
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Elem7 posted:Re: 14-50 for car charger plus possible future sub-panel. I'm with you. We're already talking aluminum wire at 50a, moving from 6 to 6 or even 1/0 isn't going to be a significant material cost difference. What will matter is breaker selection and at that point it may make sense to just toss a small panel in the garage because it's gonna be easier/cheaper to use a 100 amp main breaker to land that size cable on. The biggest cost difference is likely to be the 100 amp breaker for the existing panel and the addition of another 50a to put in the new panel for the circuit you want to pull off of it. But we're talking a few hundred bucks in material at the most for all of this so like.....do it now.
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Nov 4, 2022 14:32
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Good points. The cost to just do a subpanel right now doesn't seem like it's going to be much higher then just an outlet. I'll ask and see if that's feasible. Luckily the run would end up being in the attic, so there wouldn't be much demo required to replace this later.
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Nov 4, 2022 18:24
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Going to try installing permanent LED strip lights on the porch and had a question about what gauge of wire to use for the setup pictured below. The fuse block to the LED strips should be at least 20 AWG? What about from the power supply to the fuse block? The controller box will be sitting between the two strips so the data line will need to traverse 13ish feet to get to either end of the porch. Will 20 AWG work okay for that distance at 5 volts? Is this all going to burn my house down?
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Nov 4, 2022 21:28
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The 40A breaker for my car charger likes to hum when the car is charging at 32A. If I cap the charger at 24A it stops humming. When I push on the breaker in the upper left corner, it also stops humming. If I wedge a folded piece of paper between the breaker and the one below it, that keeps it from humming, but this doesn't seem like a good long-term solution. Am I right in guessing that the breaker is probably just a little loose and the screws on the lugs need to be tightened? Assuming that's the case and I want to fix this myself, I'm guessing I should pull my main breaker and then also cut the 40A breaker for the solar panels while I have the distribution panel open so that I don't shock myself on solar panel power, even if the mains power is cut. Not that I plan to do this, but if I left mains power on while having the distribution panel cover off, what would be the primary risk? If I contacted both screws for the breaker with the screwdriver, is that effectively the same as bridging the busbars? I have an insulated screwdriver set, but I'm not interested in finding out whether it, or myself, can survive 240V.
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Nov 5, 2022 00:55
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chutwig posted:Am I right in guessing that the breaker is probably just a little loose and the screws on the lugs need to be tightened? Newp. At that ampacity I would be going right to magnetic resonance that could be resolved by changing wire routing. But whether that resolves it or not, I want to make sure you know there are actually torque specs for this kind of thing and you need the right tool and the right information (easily available from the manufacturer of the breaker) to know if you suspicion is correct. You don't just go ham on tightening it. E: another thing I jut though about, if pushing on the breaker changes the sound this could be a breaker clamp or buss bar problem. I would start diagnosing this with a FLIR camera to be honest but yeah.....tradie stuff. So let's start different here and see if the lugs are little more than finger tight and not try to bang them home. Do you know how to safely check that? It's vanishing unlikely this is the issue, but it's possible. Motronic fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 01:19
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chutwig posted:
To answer this element: Your screwdriver tip explodes and you see spots for a few days. Your eyes feel tired for a week or two. This is the best case and assumes full ppe otherwise and no electricity flowing through your body. It all gets worse from there. You don't remove the main breaker, you throw it. The input lugs on it are still hot with utility power. You throw the disconnect on your solar system and follow all instructions on isolating your solar generation. (Those big red placards.) Then you check with your non-contact voltage detector to make sure anything you're about to touch is actually dead.
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Nov 5, 2022 01:54
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Alright, if it’s more complicated than “lug might be a bit loose”, I’ll continue with the folded Post-It note and ask the next electrician what comes to my miserable hellshack to check it out.
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Nov 5, 2022 03:05
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chutwig posted:Alright, if it’s more complicated than “lug might be a bit loose”, I’ll continue with the folded Post-It note and ask the next electrician what comes to my miserable hellshack to check it out. If you can turn off the solar and utility then you can do a cursory inspection. You might find something obvious.
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Nov 5, 2022 03:14
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