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Kilometers Davis posted:Here’s a rambly post I made back in January after beating it. I think it expands on my reaction well enough. Thanks. That’s a cool take. And I think it’s as fair as any other. My big complaints with the game have more to do with the fact that it doesn’t have anything interesting to say about revenge, which, hey, maybe I’m asking for things the game never claimed to deliver. That, and the above stated contrivance of Tommy’s sudden heel turn because it didn’t make any sense. From his perspective losing an eye should have been the proof that he was right, not the justification to flipflop and I thought that shift was so narratively stupid that it killed every last bit of interested tension that I’d worked up over the course of the game. Lastly, and this is down to personal preference, obv, I think TLoU II’s unwillingness to definitively end is narrative wishywashiness masquerading as profundity. Sure, not getting a bullet point ending might be realistic, but when that narrative ambiguity was handled so well in the first game, it just smells like sequel bait and argument fodder. My other big complaint, which I also admit is pretty subjective, was the self-conscious graveness of the whole affair. Any humor feels segregated from the greater whole, parceled out in tidbits to say “See? It’s not all grim.” Ditto the voicework, which is not to knock the actors. They did, I’m sure, as they were directed. But that brusk, whispery, sentence fragment way of speaking might offer gravitas in small doses, but when the whole game is acted that way, it grates. And, I’ll just point back to the marketing, disingenuous posters aside who want to act like the marketing doesn’t matter, as an indicator of ND’s mission statement with the game. You can’t have it both ways. If you market it and then go mum after the fact with a “who me?” Shtick, you just look like a provocateur. As a triple A studio, I think they’re afforded that ability, since it’s a millions-selling game, and some people are just gonna show up for the “aw poo poo” moments. So whatevs. Not my cup ‘o tea, but I think it’s a fair enough take. They want to sell units, and they marketed a very particular story in a very particular way, and I think it undermined the end result. Arist posted:On the other hand, what I like about TLOU as a franchise would not be things that make it "profound," because I don't think it honestly has that much to say intellectually. That's not a complaint, because I think what it's trying to do instead is create complex emotional reactions. But I thought TLoU II’s particular brand of emotional manipulation rang very hollow and felt transparently exploitative. It lacked nuance, is what I’m saying. And again, that’s def down to personal preference. Escobarbarian posted:BurningBeard, how did you feel about the late game reveal that Joel and Ellie were achingly close to reconciliation after years of being apart, meaning Ellie was not only mourning the friend she had once had, but the friend she was just about to get back? That one really got to me. And how about the museum flashback? I, personally, thought of those reveals as pointless knife twisting. Placed elsewhere in the narrative, I think they’d have just as much impact without seeming comically cruel.e: The museum bit was a lot of fun though. Their chemistry was super dope, and trying on the helmets, all the incidental details, everything about that sequence showed how much love was put into the game, no matter what. So, as an isolated moment, I loved that part. unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 23:21
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Humans are walking talking contradictions, mate, the first game went over this in rather granular detail.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:25
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Arist posted:Truly do not get complaining about the sex scene as some ridiculously indulgent thing. It cuts away in like two seconds. I remember it because it’s indisputable proof that Owen sucks lmao
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Nov 1, 2022 23:25
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BurningBeard posted:And, I’ll just point back to the marketing, disingenuous posters aside who want to act like the marketing doesn’t matter, as an indicator of ND’s mission statement with the game. You can’t have it both ways. If you market it and then go mum after the fact with a “who me?” Shtick, you just look like a provocateur. Nobody here has been disingenuous with you, I think the issue is that this point of view is kind of hard to understand. I certainly wouldn’t say Naughty Dog advertised this game as some kind of provocative statement or anything like that, or that they were deliberately trying to court controversy in any way.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:39
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Escobarbarian posted:I certainly wouldn’t say Naughty Dog advertised this game as some kind of provocative statement or anything like that, or that they were deliberately trying to court controversy in any way. They did if you listened to about 90% of the internet. “We’re taking our game and story seriously” = “Controversial” for a lot of people somehow. (Because a lot of people are morons.)
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Nov 1, 2022 23:43
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Almost no media ever created for entertainment has been profound or has tried to be, but I see a lot of people trying to undermine the point of the game by saying it's not saying anything profound, as if "humans like to kill each other for stupid reasons and are generally a bunch of assholes" is plausibly some kind of insightful commentary and not just the shared background context against which most serious drama tends to be set.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:48
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Dewgy posted:They did if you listened to about 90% of the internet. “We’re taking our game and story seriously” = “Controversial” for a lot of people somehow. MOST people are morons
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Nov 1, 2022 23:49
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acksplode posted:loving incredible reveal. Adding a crucial bit of emotional nuance to situation I thought I had fully understood a dozen hours prior. Magnifique ah yes, but not cerebral or profound you see and therefore fail
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Nov 1, 2022 23:49
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Does the PlayStation store on PS5 continually not work or work correctly for anyone else? Broken images, missing sections, selecting something resulting in a “can’t find what you’re looking for” error. And yes, I’ve googled the issue and have tried suggested fixes, please don’t post links to them or repost them, I’m not looking for solutions. I’m just trying to see how many others have this issue.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:57
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Nope, sorry
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Nov 1, 2022 23:58
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ZeeBoi posted:Does the PlayStation store on PS5 continually not work or work correctly for anyone? Broken images, missing sections, selecting something resulting in a “can’t find what you’re looking for” error. That's not an issue for me, though store updates can sometimes cause weird behavior when they're dropping.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:58
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Escobarbarian posted:Nobody here has been disingenuous with you, I think the issue is that this point of view is kind of hard to understand. I certainly wouldn’t say Naughty Dog advertised this game as some kind of provocative statement or anything like that, or that they were deliberately trying to court controversy in any way. I would even say that Naughty Dog did not advertise or market the game, because they are the developers who made the game, not the marketing department at SIE that made the commercials. I don't even know what part of the game's marketing is objectionable, but trying to hang it around ND's neck is grasping at straws. Like the whole idea here is to strawman the game into something it never claimed to be and then knock that down. Reddit poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:59
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I think they have some say relative to their standing. For example getting Ellie included on the original PS3 cover. The first real look at 2LOU def pissed some people off. I don't think Druckman is averse to poking the hive as it were
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Nov 2, 2022 00:03
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I think the story and character elements in TLOU games are extremely well done, and I think it’s a little dumb to cartwheel in and be like “it’s a video game writing bad hurrr” like we’re in the year 2000. That’s like saying all movies are disposable entertainment with nothing evocative about them. It’s possible for both to exist within the same medium.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:06
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I think they have some say relative to their standing. For example getting Ellie included on the original PS3 cover. The first real look at 2LOU def pissed some people off. I don't think Druckman is averse to poking the hive as it were The time they showed off the scene where Ellie kisses a girl? I think that was less trying to poke the hive, and more showing off a technically astounding cutscene that's early enough in the game to not spoil anything. I don't think there's a better possible candidate for a technical showpiece. And if people got mad that it featured a gay character, that's them choosing to be mad at a gay character. Trying to suggest ND is responsible for that reaction is projection.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:07
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I mean I guess there was a bit of controversy over the initial reveal trailer being really gruesome, but idk if that really matches with what we’re talking about overall.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:10
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Dewgy posted:I mean I guess there was a bit of controversy over the initial reveal trailer being really gruesome, but idk if that really matches with what we’re talking about overall. I guess that's part of it? The theory as best I can string it together is that TLOU2's marketing was indicative of ND's "mission statement," which is that it's an intentionally "controversial" "edgelordy" game, a brief sex scene being supporting evidence, and that because the game was not "profound" and did not "move the medium forward" it was a failure. A bunch of tired nonsense that was already being spewed before the game even released as people overreacted to leaks and fake spoilers. You can get endless iterations on that take in the TLOU2 spoiler thread on this forum or on r/tlou2 before it got banned for being a shithole.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:24
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acksplode posted:The time they showed off the scene where Ellie kisses a girl? I think that was less trying to poke the hive, and more showing off a technically astounding cutscene that's early enough in the game to not spoil anything. I don't think there's a better possible candidate for a technical showpiece. And if people got mad that it featured a gay character, that's them choosing to be mad at a gay character. Trying to suggest ND is responsible for that reaction is projection. You bringing this up is projection. Nobody has mentioned that. Representation is good. Like if you can’t engage in good faith, give it a rest. You’re just trying to get mad at poo poo. Dewgy posted:I mean I guess there was a bit of controversy over the initial reveal trailer being really gruesome, but idk if that really matches with what we’re talking about overall. It’s this. BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I think they have some say relative to their standing. For example getting Ellie included on the original PS3 cover. The first real look at 2LOU def pissed some people off. I don't think Druckman is averse to poking the hive as it were And this. acksplode posted:I would even say that Naughty Dog did not advertise or market the game, because they are the developers who made the game, not the marketing department at SIE that made the commercials. I don't even know what part of the game's marketing is objectionable, but trying to hang it around ND's neck is grasping at straws. Like the whole idea here is to strawman the game into something it never claimed to be and then knock that down. Reddit poo poo. So the creator has no meaningful impact on the work? This is nonsense. I don’t really know why you feel the need to poo poo on someone who didn’t like something, but it’s really pathetic, not to mention unnecessarily hostile. I have a viewpoint. You don’t have to agree with it. The fact that I think a game has flaws and am willing to say that does not imply anything about me other than I have an opinion about a piece of media. Take a page out of your own book and quit projecting weird poo poo on me because we see things differently. e: I enjoyed the game and don’t think it’s perfect. I stated a viewpoint. This got kinda weird. I’m def done with this line of discussion because it’s going nowhere fast and games are good. unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 00:30
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Sometimes this thread makes me think no one here actually enjoys playing games. I like to
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Nov 2, 2022 00:33
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BurningBeard posted:The fact that I think a game has flaws and am willing to say that does not imply anything about me other than I have an opinion about a piece of media.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:40
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acksplode posted:The time they showed off the scene where Ellie kisses a girl? I think that was less trying to poke the hive, and more showing off a technically astounding cutscene that's early enough in the game to not spoil anything. I don't think there's a better possible candidate for a technical showpiece. And if people got mad that it featured a gay character, that's them choosing to be mad at a gay character. Trying to suggest ND is responsible for that reaction is projection. I was talking about the first reveal, the "clip their wings" demo. The second showcase where they played the demo of Ellie and Dina live to the crowd in a stable was subject to epithets and jeering which obviously predicts the prejudiced atmosphere the game would be released into
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Nov 2, 2022 00:41
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I was talking about the first reveal, the "clip their wings" demo.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:43
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imo tlou has a solid story and decent gameplay and tlou2 story is kinda bad but the gameplay is amazing it kinda feels like they got really self-conscious about people misunderstanding the first one so they just made everything in 2 really obvious.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:46
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i remember being weirded out by the statements about how realistic the gore was and also it was responsible for a e3 show that was so bad that Sony stopped doing e3 shows where it started in a tent for no reason
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Nov 2, 2022 00:48
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Several pages of TLOU2 discussion without anybody pointing out the plot is simply an analogy for the Israel-Palestine situation. Druckman said it himself. That’s all it is. So stop with the turds on the floor posts already. Ellie is emotionally Israel and should’ve just let Abby have her plot of much deserved catharsis. I’ll be pleased to see how HBO max navigates this during season 2.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:48
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Augus posted:imo tlou has a solid story and decent gameplay and tlou2 story is kinda bad but the gameplay is amazing I kind of buried my face in my hands with the very first note from the bartender, they sure did start as they meant to go on
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Nov 2, 2022 00:50
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acksplode posted:Well I'd love to hear how that reveal was in any way misleading or courting controversy. It was a cutscene pulled directly from the game, accurately represented its content, and was carefully selected to not spoil the plot. What's to complain about? I'm not sure I agree that it's openly courting Controversy per se, but I do think (and thought at the time) that it's a provactive way to introduce your flagship sequel to the world. It was also badass. And I'm aware that people were rather offended turned off by it, in the very threads here there are posts of people who basically did a sort of reactionary heelturn on the series from that demo. And yeah, gently caress them, but I also think Neil knows how to provoke and isn't opposed to being a vocal and somewhat standoffish representative of the studio's (and other devs for that matter) vision. The easter eggs in 2LOU kind of poke fun at this. Anyways, I respect the dude because gently caress the internet and its toxic poo poo.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:52
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Feels Villeneuve posted:and also it was responsible for a e3 show that was so bad that Sony stopped doing e3 shows where it started in a tent for no reason yes as i said people were being bigoted fucks live on stream
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Nov 2, 2022 00:53
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Blind Rasputin posted:Several pages of TLOU2 discussion without anybody pointing out the plot is simply an analogy for the Israel-Palestine situation. Druckman said it himself. That’s all it is. So stop with the turds on the floor posts already. Ellie is emotionally Israel and should’ve just let Abby have her plot of much deserved catharsis. I’ll be pleased to see how HBO max navigates this during season 2. lol, BR 
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Nov 2, 2022 00:54
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bows1 posted:Sometimes this thread makes me think no one here actually enjoys playing games. I like to lol yeah honestly What have you been playing? I’m in gaming limbo waiting for Ragnarok. Can’t decide if I want to squeeze something in before it drops or just keep playing some pick up whenever sorts of games.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:55
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man but the gore explosions when you blow people up in tlou2 are just absolutely insane, i had to pause the game my first time seeing it happen.
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Nov 2, 2022 00:57
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Kilometers Davis posted:lol yeah honestly Maybe finish Inscryption 
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Nov 2, 2022 00:57
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Augus posted:man but the gore explosions when you blow people up in tlou2 are just absolutely insane, i had to pause the game my first time seeing it happen. They’re so gooooood. I hope The Callisto Protocol tops it somehow  e: it won’t because it’s different but it’s shaping up to be wonderfully gibtastic BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Maybe finish Inscryption Act 3 is so boring though!  I wish I was as into it as you + others itt
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Nov 2, 2022 00:59
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'm not sure I agree that it's openly courting Controversy per se, but I do think (and thought at the time) that it's a provactive way to introduce your flagship sequel to the world. It was also badass. And I'm aware that people were rather offended turned off by it, in the very threads here there are posts of people who basically did a sort of reactionary heelturn on the series from that demo. And yeah, gently caress them, but I also think Neil knows how to provoke and isn't opposed to being a vocal and somewhat standoffish representative of the studio's (and other devs for that matter) vision. The easter eggs in 2LOU kind of poke fun at this. Anyways, I respect the dude because gently caress the internet and its toxic poo poo. What bugs me about calling that trailer provocative is that it suggests that other games aren't also marketed with violence that's at least that brutal. What's the difference between TLOU2's reveal and and Callisto Protocol trying to sell you on the many gruesome ways your character can die? That trailer got my attention and told me I was in for some heavy poo poo, and that's what I got in the final product, and I was pleased. Augus posted:man but the gore explosions when you blow people up in tlou2 are just absolutely insane, i had to pause the game my first time seeing it happen. I love how if you blow someone up indoors their gore drips from the ceiling lol.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:00
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acksplode posted:What bugs me about calling that trailer provocative is that it suggests that other games aren't also marketed with violence that's at least that brutal. What's the difference between TLOU2's reveal and and Callisto Protocol trying to sell you on the many gruesome ways your character can die? That trailer got my attention and told me I was in for some heavy poo poo, and that's what I got in the final product, and I was pleased. The things that make it provacative to me are the masterful levels of tease ie dislocation of character and place, yeah prolly the level of violence because violence is itself provactative (maybe less so in the US), and the way the twitter account censored character names which subsequently generated intense levels of speculation. The line between controversy and provocation is kind of a fuzzy one I guess, but it felt new and crazy and foreboding which really worked for me, and ND are the masters of establishing pre-release atmosphere. But internet's gonna internet.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:07
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:The things that make it provacative to me are the masterful levels of tease ie dislocation of character and place, yeah prolly the level of violence because violence is itself provactative (maybe less so in the US), and the way the twitter account censored character names which subsequently generated intense levels of speculation. The line between controversy and provocation is kind of a fuzzy one I guess, but it felt new and crazy and foreboding which really worked for me, and ND are the masters of establishing pre-release atmosphere. But internet's gonna internet. Well that just sounds like good rear end marketing. It got your attention, whetted your appetite, and told you what you're paying for. But ding dong over here seems to think that reveal made the game worse somehow, and that's what has me perplexed.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:11
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I don't think it's inherently "reactionary" to have objected to that early TLOU2 preview, honestly. It was a bad combination of sickening violence that was also completely contextless. There's no reason to get excited about the game from it, really, because it doesn't actually tell you anything. It's less objectionable in the game, because of course it is, but with the audience having no anchor within the scene for that preview it's fair to go "what am I even supposed to get out of this?" And no, I don't think that a guy getting pulled into an industrial fan in Callisto Protocol is really equivalent, even if it's at least as sickening, because it's both less protracted and less plausible.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:17
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acksplode posted:Well that just sounds like good rear end marketing. It got your attention, whetted your appetite, and told you what you're paying for. But ding dong over here seems to think that reveal made the game worse somehow, and that's what has me perplexed. Yeah, pretty much.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:19
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Arist posted:I don't think it's inherently "reactionary" to have objected to that early TLOU2 preview, honestly. It was a bad combination of sickening violence that was also completely contextless. There's no reason to get excited about the game from it, really, because it doesn't actually tell you anything. It's less objectionable in the game, because of course it is, but with the audience having no anchor within the scene for that preview it's fair to go "what am I even supposed to get out of this?" I totally understand seeing that preview and noping out. If you can't stomach that scene then the game might not be for you and that's perfectly reasonable. What I'm trying to understand is what expectation you could possibly take from that trailer and say that the game failed to live up to it.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:23
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I think that's the wrong question. It's not about living up to the promise, it's about whether what they're promising is appealing in the first place. E: and to be clear, I liked the game. But that preview, in that moment, left a bad impression on me
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Nov 2, 2022 01:24
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