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Orange Devil posted:Ms Joyce is providing security. Ms Joyce is helping me secure my factory
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Nov 7, 2022 22:20
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| # ? May 31, 2024 21:34 |
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christmas boots posted:Ms Joyce is helping me secure my factory
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Nov 7, 2022 22:33
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Antonymous posted:they committed war crimes on behalf of a pharmaceutical company but they're still *people* too They are also depicted as products of their society. They were made into the war crime happy maniacs they are, by people like Joyce and the SF. And possibly like Klasje and Evaret.
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Nov 7, 2022 22:55
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I think we can all agree The Pale is the only unambiguously good and heroic figure in this story. May it one day consume all.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:04
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so you guys know that unions did some pretty loving hardcore poo poo in our own history to win things like free weekends, right things like: destruction of property, arson, obstruction of justice, arming the gently caress up, fighting police, turning wagons on railroads, occupation, intimidation, robbery. Oh, fighting the army too, in some special cases some of the most effective unions in history have been often compared to criminal or terrorist organizations by the establishment, which eventually led to situations like the united states government using its federal police force to employ the actual organized crime against unions I think the main peculiar novelty about how the debardeurs are written is that Evrart doubles down on the spirit of things and uses the terminal to outright seize a large share of the black market. The comparable case that I know of are the FARC in Colombia, which realized that they totally could take out a part of the drug trade because of their strength in the countryside and use that money against the DEA, governments too friendly with the state dept and the narcos themselves edit: remotely comparable because the FARC is a militant left-wing socialist movement lol dead gay comedy forums fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 23:16
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Whitenoise Poster posted:I think we can all agree Egg Head is the only unambiguously good and heroic figure in this story. ftfy
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Nov 7, 2022 23:19
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Please don't turn Egghead into a fascist
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Nov 7, 2022 23:24
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Taking over an ostensibly socialist movement via assassination and keeping control of it via intimidation is good actually :cryingtankiesalutingcomradedjugashvilli:
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Nov 7, 2022 23:25
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GlyphGryph posted:She explicitly tried to call the whole thing off, and couldn't. For all her power (and she has a lot), you're somehow managing to assign her even more than she actually possesses. Nixon posted:[Nixon is making an impromptu nighttime visit to the Lincoln Memorial, where a group of young protestors have camped out]
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Nov 7, 2022 23:26
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The only actual good that Harry is able to achieve in the game is all basic ideology-free cop stuff and the game is unintentionally pro cop as a result.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:32
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That’s the movie Nixon
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Nov 7, 2022 23:34
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dead gay comedy forums posted:so you guys know that unions did some pretty loving hardcore poo poo in our own history to win things like free weekends, right actually im pretty sure that mlk and gandhi proved that political power grows out of the barrel of a nonviolence
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Nov 7, 2022 23:38
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dead gay comedy forums posted:so you guys know that unions did some pretty loving hardcore poo poo in our own history to win things like free weekends, right My favorite stories are the old foreclosure auctions. The bank would foreclose on some poor farmer and the estate would go to auction. The unions would show up armed to the teeth, and the farmer would bid one dollar while the union cocked their shotguns and dared anyone to outbid them.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:38
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I really like the game goes out of its way to avoid the classic WRPG 'you, the player singled handedly changed the balance of power in the region by fighting every guy and going some sick nasty [100] persuade checks that made commited extremists radically change their ideologies and/or kill themselves from a single conversation' power fantasy that even the really good games like New Vegas like to do and the only actual good Harry can do is 1) his job and 2) maybe preventing the apocalypse by saving a church and doing dance music(???). It's very refreshing that you *can't* just do a golden route Communist Revachol run or whatever
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Nov 7, 2022 23:40
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Can I safely assume we're dropping the spoilers? I hope so, because I finally finished my first playthrough and I Wanna Talk About It. Too much. Way too much. Nota bene that I went in to see him with low PSY, but the voices in your hard are unreliable dipshits, and I've always found it more useful to judge intent from behavior than the other way around. My sense on Evrart is that he's fundamentally corrupt, unequivocally a mob boss, and exceptionally ruthless...and, at the same time, very meaningfully sincere about what he says he's doing. If Evrart was only in it for himself, you know what his best play would've been after assassinating the last Union rep? Cutting the exact same deal she did, playing cat's paw for Wild Pines and cheerfully enriching himself while the Union continued to wither and the city continued to decompose. But he didn't. He's a Martinaise boy and he cares about Martinaise. Evrart (slash Edgar) was vicious enough to have someone murdered to seize power--but does anybody really think he's going to, say, kill the nice old lady in the fishing village if she doesn't sign the paperwork? He might scheme and plot to push her out of her hovel, but once he gets his community center, I'd call it a very safe bet that she's going to be cared for. (He took care of Rene, for gently caress's sake. What did that get him?) It's a lovely thing to do, one of the many lovely things he's done, but there's clearly an ethical dimension to his maneuvering, and it's on behalf of what he sees as the community as a whole. He defines people as "for us", "against us", or "not our problem", and adjusts his calculus, however savage, accordingly. Note that I say "us" and "our", not "me" and "my". He deliberately plays up the scumbag angle, because he (correctly) feels that he's a scumbag, but he's using his scumbaggery in service of a bigger picture, and it's a bigger picture that--if only within the confines of Martinaise, an obliterated ruin exploited or ignored by every other person in the world--I personally find compelling. I don't like Evrart, but I do like Evrart. There's a scrap of genuine idealism in him, and the world has a habit of breaking idealists. Evrart is a product of navigating that compromise. Manana is right: the Union needs a dirty motherfucker to have any hope of taking on Wild Pines, which, given that Wild Pines uses psychotic war criminal death squads to handle labor disputes, seems a worthy cause. (I know I use the word "but" too much...buuuuut the point is that he's a complex character, and to talk about him effectively means wrestling with contradiction. It's a good word. gently caress you.) Joyce, by contrast, is someone I really like, but not someone that I like. She's the face and, as much as any one person can be for a billion dollar international conglomerate, brains of Wild Pines, a massive soulless automaton with hands drenched in blood. Despite that, she's an ethical, compassionate person--at least by the time we meet her, world-wearied and pale-poisoned. I believe her when she says she would've fought to the death defending Revachol during the Revolution, but she, like Evrart, is a product of the compromises you make when your ideals bump up against the world that you live in. Evrart kept his, hosed up and tattered as they've turned out, while Joyce gave hers up, for herself and for her daughters. Subsequently, she's got a very deep, cynical sense of self-loathing, all-too-informed by knowing that she participates in a truly evil system. Krenel isn't just four psychopaths on an island. It's a successful, "legitimate" army of mercenary war criminals, one of many, deployed (quite frequently) to rape and slaughter entire populations of people, for nothing better than Increase Shareholder Number. My understanding is that the board decided to send in Krenel after she'd left, without her input, but even if she's the one who signed off on it, it's clear that she feels it was a dire mistake, and I think she felt that way before the lynching escalated things. She's got "clean hands", and I think she's a lovely person, but that's the point of the system she represents--that you can be a lovely person with clean hands while still being responsible for unspeakable horror. All of which is microcosm. We're interacting with this poo poo on a personal, psychological level, but the conversation behind that is political and historical. The game is very explicit that you're choosing the world you live in, and the world you want to live in, and however much doubt, anguish, and existential pain that might cause you, there is no hiding from it. ("Not choosing" just means you've chosen Moralintern, in which case I spit on you.) The brutal contradiction is that we are all small, powerless toys, trapped in systems we can't control or escape, shaped and created by the inhuman, encompassing power of all hitherto recorded history--while also being responsible for what we are and what we do. It sucks that Ellis got left in a leaf compactor as a baby, but he was still a loving war criminal--even if "one of the good ones"--and I'm still glad he wound up dangling from a tree. This cuts both ways. To use a much softer example, Cuno is a horrible little poo poo, but look where he came from. We can't exclude redemption, and we can't exclude hope. So that's what you gotta wrestle with. It's hard to be human, bro. anyways, i arrested klaasje and i don't feel bad about it
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Nov 8, 2022 00:07
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I like the Communist magazine that hurts you trying to read through it cause it's a wall of text jargon. Think it's RHETORIC that also chimes in how this alienated it's readership base.POWELL CURES KIDS posted:anyways, i arrested klaasje and i don't feel bad about it You're a monster. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Nov 8, 2022 |
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Nov 8, 2022 00:16
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No Dignity posted:some sick nasty [100] persuade checks that made commited extremists radically change their ideologies and/or kill themselves from a single conversation' ah, the Dostoyevsky run
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Nov 8, 2022 00:30
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Stalin robbed trains but also defeated the Nazis and helped secure unconditional Japanese surrender by liberating Manchuria so it's impossible to say if he was good or bad
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Nov 8, 2022 00:33
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MariusLecter posted:I like the Communist magazine that hurts you trying to read through it cause it's a wall of text jargon. Think it's RHETORIC that also chimes in how this alienated it's readership base. back when I studying econ at uni I was invited to collaborate with something like la fumee and I lol’ed the gently caress out with that sequence
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Nov 8, 2022 00:33
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Being a tribalist who thinks the ends justify the means seems exceptionally moralist to me
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Nov 8, 2022 00:34
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i am a moron posted:Being a tribalist who thinks the ends justify the means seems exceptionally moralist to me what are you, a moron?
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Nov 8, 2022 00:35
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Antonymous posted:what are you, a moron? 
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Nov 8, 2022 00:37
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Toebone posted:Martin Luiga just posted some early (~2012) Elysium fiction. im permabanned poster mesquefagget58. i first started doing a number on the whole nature of reality when i was about 12. by 14 i got really obsessed with the concept of "nihilism" and tried to channel it constantly, until my thought process got really bizarre and i would repeat things like "femme piss" and "cum-tard, furthermore cumlessness" into the market square for hours, and i would get really feisty, pulling guns on moralfaggert aunties, thinking i was actually lita zippora etc, basically pale exposure. im now on antientreponotics. i always wondered what the kind of "hard core" style of nihilist humor was all about; i think it's the pale leaking in to the isolary reality, what franconigerian medicine considered to be the cause of mental spallation and chorotypical symptoms. i would advise all people who "get" full core state nihilism to be careful because that likely means the white outside the world is pouring through you and undermining reality. good fortune boias
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Nov 8, 2022 05:27
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My extremely anarkiddie take is that Evrart and the Union are the people you need to get the ball rolling to start defeating capitalism and reaction, but once that is done they will probably the people against whom the people's struggle will occur. Because the union as an organisation was formed under capitalist and reactionary state of affairs and, as such, acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features, which, despite being necessary in the past, might lead them to succumbing to reaction and reacreating class structures. Such struggles against "heroes" of the past will continue until an actual stateless and classless society is established, after which it is impossible to predict what will happen. Or they fail, mal-adaptive features ossify into a new class structures, and we regress back into capitalism and reaction.
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Nov 8, 2022 05:51
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Everybody sucks but kim
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Nov 8, 2022 06:02
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General Battuta posted:im permabanned poster mesquefagget58. i first started doing a number on the whole nature of reality when i was about 12. by 14 i got really obsessed with the concept of "nihilism" and tried to channel it constantly, until my thought process got really bizarre and i would repeat things like "femme piss" and "cum-tard, furthermore cumlessness" into the market square for hours, and i would get really feisty, pulling guns on moralfaggert aunties, thinking i was actually lita zippora etc, basically pale exposure. im now on antientreponotics. i always wondered what the kind of "hard core" style of nihilist humor was all about; i think it's the pale leaking in to the isolary reality, what franconigerian medicine considered to be the cause of mental spallation and chorotypical symptoms. i would advise all people who "get" full core state nihilism to be careful because that likely means the white outside the world is pouring through you and undermining reality. good fortune boias
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Nov 8, 2022 06:02
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Alitur posted:My extremely anarkiddie take is that Evrart and the Union are the people you need to get the ball rolling to start defeating capitalism and reaction, but once that is done they will probably the people against whom the people's struggle will occur. Because the union as an organisation was formed under capitalist and reactionary state of affairs and, as such, acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features, which, despite being necessary in the past, might lead them to succumbing to reaction and reacreating class structures. Such struggles against "heroes" of the past will continue until an actual stateless and classless society is established, after which it is impossible to predict what will happen. Or they fail, mal-adaptive features ossify into a new class structures, and we regress back into capitalism and reaction. I mean that's the jist of Lenin's whole deal, careful with this talk you could get run out of anarchist spaces
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Nov 8, 2022 07:15
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I’m replaying this game for the first time since launch. I do enjoy much of the writing but still I find myself rapidly clicking through massive word dumps. Some of the dialogue branches are real unwieldy.
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Nov 8, 2022 07:22
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Eason the Fifth posted:Everybody sucks but kim Moralist tendencies, willing to overlook fascism in "good cops", won't wear the jacket
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Nov 8, 2022 07:24
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Yeah Kim is a lot more ambiguous then he gets credit for, which does align with the theory that a lot of players' opinions of characters is formed by those characters' attitudes to Harry and them taking that attitude personally and/or extending it to define the character completely.
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Nov 8, 2022 09:47
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*clicks the racist dialogue option* drat why did the writers make Harry such a fascist
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Nov 8, 2022 10:25
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Antonymous posted:*clicks the racist dialogue option* Come on now, making fun of games journalists is so old now.
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Nov 8, 2022 10:31
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I just became an Honour Cop. I don't care what Kim says, I've never been more proud. Edit: for some reason, the line that made me lose my poo poo and fall in love with DE is the pighead one.
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Nov 8, 2022 11:37
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Did you do the thumb thing?
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Nov 8, 2022 14:16
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Alitur posted:My extremely anarkiddie take is that Evrart and the Union are the people you need to get the ball rolling to start defeating capitalism and reaction, but once that is done they will probably the people against whom the people's struggle will occur. Because the union as an organisation was formed under capitalist and reactionary state of affairs and, as such, acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features, which, despite being necessary in the past, might lead them to succumbing to reaction and reacreating class structures. Such struggles against "heroes" of the past will continue until an actual stateless and classless society is established, after which it is impossible to predict what will happen. Or they fail, mal-adaptive features ossify into a new class structures, and we regress back into capitalism and reaction. MariusLecter posted:I like the Communist magazine that hurts you trying to read through it cause it's a wall of text jargon. Think it's RHETORIC that also chimes in how this alienated it's readership base. ngl I have no idea what "acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features" even means. Is that supposed to be "acquired features [that are] mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context"?
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Nov 8, 2022 15:00
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Staltran posted:ngl I have no idea what "acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features" even means. Is that supposed to be "acquired features [that are] mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context"? It means that the union has structured itself around Evrart and his thugs, and those guys might be a problem later on.
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Nov 8, 2022 16:55
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Staltran posted:ngl I have no idea what "acquaried mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context features" even means. Is that supposed to be "acquired features [that are] mal-adaptive in the post-capitalism context"? I take it to mean that, due to the struggle in which it was created, it acquired features that are suited to that struggle against capitalism but ill-suited to a system that would replace capitalism. So now, where it was beneficial and vital to progress, it suddenly becomes an obstacle.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:03
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Orange Devil posted:Did you do the thumb thing? Did I do the super secret and very honorable salute, to Kim's great shock? Of course.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:19
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Jack Trades posted:So what positive things have Claires actually done that don't include fixing problems that they themselves have caused? He's resisting the exploitation imposed upon Martinaise by Wild Pines. His whole endgame is a more equitable situation for the dockworkers overall. I've never understood the Claire hate. The man's based. Yes he's a little cloying but that's political strategy in a nutshell, it works and it's effective, that's what matters.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:27
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Answered just like a real politician. As vague and unspecific as possible.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:48
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