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My big complaint about industry is that food processing and packing is very underbaked. Canned food isn't a military good, when it's critical to the increased reach of shipping and the increase in army sizes (and decrease in attrition) over this time period. A great many foods that were famously canned in this period aren't inputs for Groceries. Particularly meat and fruit, so the massive British tinned meat industry and early 20th century canned fruit imperialism like Dole and Standard Fruit can't really be represented. Livestock are all processed in the same place that they're farmed or ranched, so you don't have the massive centralization of American meatpacking that was enabled by the use of rail and refrigerator cars, so you can't really represent why Chicago became so important. Kinda adjacent, it also feels weird that tobacco doesn't have a processing industry at all. Cigar and cigarette rollers were invented in the late 19th century, and the increased separation of tobacco growing and processing/packaging (and the mechanization of the latter, which was once a labor-intensive process) is a big part of both early American labor organizing and the exploitation of Cuba. Zeron posted:It's honestly a bit weird that there isn't some kind of institution for voting access (not that institutions don't have their own issues). There should probably also be one for immigration. The amount of immigration you get per month or whatever should have a cap based on how much bureaucracy you can invest in processing immigrants. Yeah it does feel weird that once Racism Is Over, you never run into any friction caused by people not speaking the same language or any other form of culture shock.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:12
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You know, honestly, just replacing opium with canned food as the requirement for the better morale recovery makes a lot of sense and at least makes it something every country can access once they hit the tech, edit: morale recovery is still insanely powerful though, it definitely needs a bit of a cutting back, but whatever there's a lot of issues with war that will take time to even out.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:16
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Ithle01 posted:You know, honestly, just replacing opium with canned food as the requirement for the better morale recovery makes a lot of sense and at least makes it something every country can access once they hit the tech, If not outright replacing it, it could be an alternative for when you're at war with the big colonizers that produce it, or if you can't / don't want to trade for it, another production method that uses canned food and gives half the bonus of opium or something. This could be used for other things that you could substitute, maybe wood for coal in some cases or something like that, just to give you options at a loss of efficiency if your whole economy would otherwise grind to a halt due to a lack of goods? I remember feeling so bad with my Italy game when towards the end I had unlocked all the fancy techs but couldn't use a big part of them due to lack of oil and rubber  (and admittedly my lack of willingness to do imperialism, I am a big softy)
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Nov 8, 2022 23:38
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TorakFade posted:If not outright replacing it, it could be an alternative for when you're at war with the big colonizers that produce it, or if you can't / don't want to trade for it, another production method that uses canned food and gives half the bonus of opium or something. Yeah, my idealistic Sweden and Belgium games hit a wall where I was like "Whelp, can't raise my standard of living without some imperialism. At least I'm only colonizing slave states, this is a net positive from a utilitarian perspective."
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Nov 8, 2022 23:45
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TorakFade posted:If not outright replacing it, it could be an alternative for when you're at war with the big colonizers that produce it, or if you can't / don't want to trade for it, another production method that uses canned food and gives half the bonus of opium or something.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:49
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TorakFade posted:(and admittedly my lack of willingness to do imperialism, I am a big softy) Look, if you don’t do imperialism someone else will and since they’re not as much of a softy as you are their imperialism will be worse so the only moral thing is to do imperialism to ensure that people are brought under your relatively benevolent reign. This is just facts.  Actually did you go Two Sicilies -> Italy? It’s interesting that Two Sicilies can use its stronger position to leapfrog quickly into being the only real candidate for Italian unification, allowing you to potentially form Italy peacefully (minus northern Italy if you’re not willing to go to war with Austria), while starting as Sardinia-Piedmont keeps you on the back foot vs Sicilian influence and makes it harder to get the Italian minors into your sphere before they all form pacts and customs unions with other powers. This combined with Sicily’s status as a unification candidate means that where Sicily can potentially peacefully subsume the others into Italy, Sardinia is forced to fight at least one war, probably two and maybe even more in their own quest for unification and will be actively fighting to delay unification until they can wrest the crown from Sicily.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:58
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Eiba posted:I really want you to be able to use oil for streetlights early on. I'd really like to be able to make my whaling industry more lucrative. As it stands all that makes whaling profitable is how expensive the meat is. We didn't hunt the leviathan to merely eat him! there's a mod that switches the coal streetlight production method to use oil instead. seems like it would be better represented as an additional PM in between coal and electric tho short of that, pops should consume oil for their personal lighting needs above a certain (low) wealth level imo, with a very late transition into electric personal lighting. electrification in general should probably be a slightly slower process...it's pretty easy to electrify completely by 1880, which is when the lightbulb was just starting to exist in reality. but then with maxed out universities for your literacy level it's pretty easy to speedrun the tech tree as a whole and obtain a lot of interwar period stuff by 1900, so electrification is just another symptom of that. another row of techs in each category - between level 3 & level 4, maybe - might even things out a bit TorakFade posted:If not outright replacing it, it could be an alternative for when you're at war with the big colonizers that produce it, or if you can't / don't want to trade for it, another production method that uses canned food and gives half the bonus of opium or something. italy is in a perfect position to carve up the ottomans, you just have to strike in the middle of their first war with egypt, call in greece by either puppeting them first or just offering to give them thessaly to get a front and go for it - they can't even stand up to egypt alone in 99% of campaigns so anyone who piles on basically gets to fatally weaken them for free with stuff like releasing albania and bulgaria. then sometime later release iraq and puppet/annex it for your oil needs. you're not imperialisming, you're, uh, saving them from the ottomans and including them in your happy nation where Racism Is Over! Jazerus fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 00:02
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Is there a timeline or, even better, a mod for fixing the "can't do diplomatic actions to civil war nations and also they fairly regularly persist after the war"? That's the only bug that really renders some achievements infeasible, and in general it's the one that causes me the most annoyance.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:22
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my almost finished Italy run, the Confederacy has been swiping colonies I'd like with total impunity, because they count as a civil war tag and absolutely bodied the US but didn't finish them off
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Nov 9, 2022 00:23
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GreyjoyBastard posted:my almost finished Italy run, the Confederacy has been swiping colonies I'd like with total impunity, because they count as a civil war tag and absolutely bodied the US but didn't finish them off for the confederacy in particular, if you finish off the US they'll convert into the US. might be infeasible if the US is cut off without any ports, but if they are small and have a coastline just puppet/annex them i guess. i've also seen other civil war tags convert into real tags if the real tag they're associated with doesn't exist and the civil war tag gets its own civil war, which obviously isn't reliable but it's something
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Nov 9, 2022 00:30
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TorakFade posted:If not outright replacing it, it could be an alternative for when you're at war with the big colonizers that produce it, or if you can't / don't want to trade for it, another production method that uses canned food and gives half the bonus of opium or something. The problem is that not just that you need opium, but that you need such outrageous amounts of it. For example, in my current Italy playthrough, I have a standing army of 142 battalions in 1890ish. (This is about comparable to Austria and Prussia.) Switching to Field Hospitals would require 284 Opium, or the entire produce of 14 Opium fields and some change. If I were to activate all of my conscripts (1228 battalions) and put them on Field Hospitals, they would consume approximately 45% of the entire British market's opium production. Soldiers on field hospital consume as many units of opium as they do small arms! I know there's the problem that the AI chronically underproduces everything, but you need far, far too much raw opium to use the Field Hospitals production method, which is a big problem.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:32
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Jazerus posted:there's a mod that switches the coal streetlight production method to use oil instead. seems like it would be better represented as an additional PM in between coal and electric tho If I recall correctly pops DO use some oil as a substitute good for heating purposes if it’s available. Though mind you, I’m not entirely sure that increasing demand for oil is a good thing for the game unless it manages to convince the AI to actually develop their oil deposits.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:33
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Civil wars in AI nations are just a bit of a mess. Nations that have split territory (or that start with no barracks and no conscripts) will get into a civil war that decays down to 0 warscore on both sides but never goes below that and so never ends, leaving little rebellion statelets all over the place that you cannot touch at all except by first completely destroying the parent nation. Oman is particularly notable for this since it starts with four non-contiguous bits of territory, and even though it has the ships and the men to invade and subdue the weird little nubbin of the Trucial Coast when it splits away, it never does so. There also seems to be some strangeness with how the laws get set for breakaway revolutions as well as civil wars, as someone said a few posts back you would expect the winning side in a civil war to do some amount of purging opposition and forcing new legislation. In my most recent playthrough when I glanced over at the USA in around 1900 there was an independent Texas, and independent CSA in the southwest, and independent New African Republic in the southeast, and the good old USA in the north, and out of those four the only one with banned slavery was... the CSA.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:40
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Tomn posted:If I recall correctly pops DO use some oil as a substitute good for heating purposes if it’s available. Though mind you, I’m not entirely sure that increasing demand for oil is a good thing for the game unless it manages to convince the AI to actually develop their oil deposits. It should be a thing you can swap out with coal for the same effect. There's no need to make everyone lack for oil in the early game, but if you've got a whaling industry building in the game there should be something you can do with it. In fact streetlights are the perfect way to jumpstart your first coal mines so I really wouldn't want to just replace that production method. I just want to have the option to do that with whales too!
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Nov 9, 2022 00:43
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Cease to Hope posted:The problem is that not just that you need opium, but that you need such outrageous amounts of it. Sindh is like Zulia, you just kinda have to conquer it to be a self-sufficient European power.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:44
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Cease to Hope posted:The problem is that not just that you need opium, but that you need such outrageous amounts of it. 45% of the british market's opium production is barely anything, honestly. 14 opium fields? grab sindh or baluchistan early on and you'll have over 100 fields ready to go. from a player perspective it's a trivial problem to solve if you know you'll need to solve it - once you're ready to project power in a way that requires opium, it's easy to intimidate an opium-haver into submission. even if you activated your conscripts you'd only need two states worth of opium, or just gujarat but that requires breaking baroda off from britain which might be tricky. regardless as long as you prioritize it you'll generally be able to get enough opium to both supply your army indefinitely and addict half the world to opium for profit, if you want. the game says that opium export routes will be unprofitable but once it's in an AI's market they'll switch their medicine PMs and start importing a lot of it, and their pops will, uh, provide demand as well. the real problem is that GPs don't pursue an independent opium supply which means that britain has a ridiculous advantage even beyond owning half the world, and france has the same advantage because their dumb india treaty port lets them leech off of the british market
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Nov 9, 2022 00:50
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Sindh is like Zulia, you just kinda have to conquer it to be a self-sufficient European power. Bangkok, Lower Cairo, and Uzbekia/Bukhara are also all good. Jazerus posted:45% of the british market's opium production is barely anything, honestly. 14 opium fields? grab sindh or baluchistan early on and you'll have over 100 fields ready to go. from a player perspective it's a trivial problem to solve if you know you'll need to solve it - once you're ready to project power in a way that requires opium, it's easy to intimidate an opium-haver into submission. even if you activated your conscripts you'd only need two states worth of opium, or just gujarat but that requires breaking baroda off from britain which might be tricky. It's not a difficult problem to solve, no. Obviously, you just go conquer one of the places where opium can be produced. It's just a ridiculous amount of opium. You're describing dedicating an entire state's produce to opium to feed an army's field hospitals!
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Nov 9, 2022 01:02
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Jamsque posted:Civil wars in AI nations are just a bit of a mess. Nations that have split territory (or that start with no barracks and no conscripts) will get into a civil war that decays down to 0 warscore on both sides but never goes below that and so never ends, leaving little rebellion statelets all over the place that you cannot touch at all except by first completely destroying the parent nation. Oman is particularly notable for this since it starts with four non-contiguous bits of territory, and even though it has the ships and the men to invade and subdue the weird little nubbin of the Trucial Coast when it splits away, it never does so. I feel like for wars in general there needs to be some kind of "if nobody's died in like 2 years, the war ends in a white peace" check. Some kind of recognition of things being stalemated and just accepting the stalemate as the new status quo. You do sometimes see stalemates where both sides are actively attempting to make progress and failing, but this is fine in my mind because the ongoing hit to their economies due to the expense of the war and the deaths in battle will lead to a tipping of the scale eventually. The problems are when both sides are completely unable to affect each other due to lack of a shared border, no naval invasions, whatever.
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Nov 9, 2022 01:10
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Watching Fascist Revolt Venezuela's 3 battalions toe off against Communist Council Venezuela's 4 battalions for a decade and not move the front at all sure has been a thing. I could really use that oil but if I step in France will want to have a say about it.
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Nov 9, 2022 01:19
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As Belgium I always find it’s a problem that you don’t have enough coast or land. Conquering the Netherlands would seem to be a good solution. When’s a good point in the game to do that? At game start they have pro army and you don’t. But the later you leave it probably the worse?
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Nov 9, 2022 01:24
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Jazerus posted:for the confederacy in particular, if you finish off the US they'll convert into the US. might be infeasible if the US is cut off without any ports, but if they are small and have a coastline just puppet/annex them i guess. i've also seen other civil war tags convert into real tags if the real tag they're associated with doesn't exist and the civil war tag gets its own civil war, which obviously isn't reliable but it's something invading Mexico, puppet of France, and starting world war 1, because game mechanics require me to kill the rump US before beating up the CSA and the US is landlocked by CSA, Mexico, and Canada
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Nov 9, 2022 01:29
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"Why did you start a global war killing millions?" "Because I was mad about the forcefield over Texas and Madagascar"
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Nov 9, 2022 01:31
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Beefeater1980 posted:As Belgium I always find it’s a problem that you don’t have enough coast or land. Conquering the Netherlands would seem to be a good solution. Whenever you think a GP will back you and win the war for you easily.
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Nov 9, 2022 01:37
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"Why did you start a global war killing millions?" "Because I was mad about the forcefield over Texas and Madagascar" a better reason than posturing over serbia, surely
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Nov 9, 2022 01:39
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y'know it's also weird that there's no opium fields in turkey at all in V3
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Nov 9, 2022 01:42
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Beefeater1980 posted:As Belgium I always find it’s a problem that you don’t have enough coast or land. Conquering the Netherlands would seem to be a good solution. I conquered the Netherlands about a decade in on the game I did that. You need professional military and then to build up to 50 or so troops from memory. I definitely recommend making sure you don't need any ships for your market (being in the French CU is ideal if you don't mind doing that) and just ignore the navy. Though honestly it's much easier and arguably better to get your land and coasts from Indonesia. Netherlands gives you mostly what you already have, while Indonesia gives you a whole bunch of resources. That's what I did in my Belgium to the end game. Phigs fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 02:22
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Maybe my view is tainted for mainly playing outside of Europe and the land-based GP trade that entails, but I don't think I could conceivably ever get enough coastal territory to satisfy my need for ports and convoys.
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Nov 9, 2022 02:40
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bordering multiple GPs does help, but short of that taking all of the tiny pacific islands does as well - they're basically useless but they have enough people to support max-level ports
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Nov 9, 2022 02:45
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 I'm working on something
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Nov 9, 2022 03:13
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So I've played my third game to the end date now, and I was hoping a big patch would be along because there are still a ton of niggling annoyances of game systems just not quite working right, and I'm not sure what to do with my next game until then.Jamsque posted:Civil wars in AI nations are just a bit of a mess. Nations that have split territory (or that start with no barracks and no conscripts) will get into a civil war that decays down to 0 warscore on both sides but never goes below that and so never ends, leaving little rebellion statelets all over the place that you cannot touch at all except by first completely destroying the parent nation. Oman is particularly notable for this since it starts with four non-contiguous bits of territory, and even though it has the ships and the men to invade and subdue the weird little nubbin of the Trucial Coast when it splits away, it never does so. Ah yes, the eternal civil war that gradually fragments into more and more civil wars. I know it well.  This is what Australia looked like for decades in my latest game.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:23
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Takanago posted:
Oh my, I know those colors!
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Nov 9, 2022 03:40
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This is getting ridiculous. I've had multiple states rebel after I take them and then in the middle of the war to take them back they rebel from themselves and I completely lose the state.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:44
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Okay late game slowdown is loving ridiculous, I've been sitting here for literal hours waiting for the last few years of my USA game to tick by, I got Star-Swarmed Banner and I'd have already stopped but I want to get Tycoon.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:51
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Cease to Hope posted:My big complaint about industry is that food processing and packing is very underbaked. Canned food isn't a military good, when it's critical to the increased reach of shipping and the increase in army sizes (and decrease in attrition) over this time period. A great many foods that were famously canned in this period aren't inputs for Groceries. Particularly meat and fruit, so the massive British tinned meat industry and early 20th century canned fruit imperialism like Dole and Standard Fruit can't really be represented. Livestock are all processed in the same place that they're farmed or ranched, so you don't have the massive centralization of American meatpacking that was enabled by the use of rail and refrigerator cars, so you can't really represent why Chicago became so important. There's a few things which really should have a "raw" form that requires further processing to be of much value. I think the only "raw" good right now is hardwood. Iron should be split up into mining and smelting, with smelting being nearly as coal-intensive as steel, with a PM that substitutes in a large quantity of wood. Fabric should also get another step to turn output of farming/ranching into usable fabric, which would be particularly relevant for Britain and the American south.
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Nov 9, 2022 04:53
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Beefeater1980 posted:As Belgium I always find it’s a problem that you don’t have enough coast or land. Conquering the Netherlands would seem to be a good solution. Get on France or England's good side ASAP, then rush them whenever you can get an alliance/obligation. They're an order of magnitude stronger, so it's your best bet for an early victory. (England might accept a sway of Dutch Guiana in a diplo play) The player can develop way better than the AI atm, so in a decade or two you'll likely be able to solo them (though there's always the risk of Prussia/Austria/France siding against you). The Low Countries are fantastic territory, if you can annex the Netherlands consider getting Hanover/Elbe too, they'll proc oil eventually (along with Friesland). DJ_Mindboggler fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 05:03
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CrypticTriptych posted:There's a few things which really should have a "raw" form that requires further processing to be of much value. I think the only "raw" good right now is hardwood. Iron should be split up into mining and smelting, with smelting being nearly as coal-intensive as steel, with a PM that substitutes in a large quantity of wood. Fabric should also get another step to turn output of farming/ranching into usable fabric, which would be particularly relevant for Britain and the American south. Can't be done rn, as apparently goods are soft-limited to 50 due to performance issues
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Nov 9, 2022 05:22
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I noticed that one of the main obstacles to anti-racist laws is staying on Mercantilism. Your Trade Centers employ a shitload of people. I have a country of 67M at the moment and 1.8M of them work in Trade Centers. Unless you swap off of Mercantilism (or go full communism with Command Economy or Council Republic), they're all Shopkeepers, which heavily favor the Petit Bourgeoisie, who all hate looser immigration laws and anti-discrimination laws. If you switch to any other trade law (and aren't communist), they're a mix of Capitalists (mostly Industrialists with some Intelligentsia) and Clerks (mostly Intelligentsia with some PB and Trade Unions).CrypticTriptych posted:There's a few things which really should have a "raw" form that requires further processing to be of much value. I think the only "raw" good right now is hardwood. Iron should be split up into mining and smelting, with smelting being nearly as coal-intensive as steel, with a PM that substitutes in a large quantity of wood. Fabric should also get another step to turn output of farming/ranching into usable fabric, which would be particularly relevant for Britain and the American south. I know what you mean about separating weaving and tanning from tailoring, but I'm not sure what it would add to the game. The only industry where it's the primary input is the textile industry, and it seems reasonable that that just includes both raw processing and actual tailoring. Steel I think definitely shouldn't have two steps. I don't have a problem with thinking of Steel Mills as the entire iron refining industry even if they are not all properly steel mills. Slim Jim Pickens posted:Can't be done rn, as apparently goods are soft-limited to 50 due to performance issues just so this doesn't turn into A Thing because of a game of telephone from an offhand comment: KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Since Radia is referencing something I told her- my recollection is that it was, I think either the Mexico stream or a segment of the release day stream, with Wiz and Paul Depre- is that Ofaloaf?- where they're discussing coal in the game, and how they want to maybe split coal into different types- anthracite, lignite, etc- so as to better model the fact that not all coal was equally useful for all purposes, and not everywhere with coal had every type- I think Germany notably had a lot of lignite, which is basically dogshit, and not a lot of anthracite, which is what you really want for, say, steel production. And that turned into a discussion of the problems involved with adding more types of good, and then jokes about the inevitable megamod that will introduce a thousand hyper-niche goods, at which point the non-Wiz dev makes an offhand comment that if anyone tries to go much above fifty, they're going to start running into serious performance problems.
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Nov 9, 2022 05:37
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So there's gotta be something causing the "bandit" trait to appear on leaders way more often than it should. In my current game, the leaders of Russia, Prussia, France, Spain, Britain, and Brazil are all Bandits, not to mention my own King of Dai Nam.
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Nov 9, 2022 05:43
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Pakled posted:So there's gotta be something causing the "bandit" trait to appear on leaders way more often than it should. In my current game, the leaders of Russia, Prussia, France, Spain, Britain, and Brazil are all Bandits, not to mention my own King of Dai Nam. Yeah I've noticed this as well, it feels like something where maybe the probability of it appearing is missing a decimal point or something, it seems so common.
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Nov 9, 2022 05:44
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Can't be done rn, as apparently goods are soft-limited to 50 due to performance issues I think in general it's a difficult balance to strike between adding more goods to better simulate certain real world production chains, and simplifying things to prevent too much confusion from players and the overtaxing of the cpu or whatever. And really, before they make any changes like adding a step between the raw output of tobacco / tea / coffee and the finished good, they need to add some way to build factories in foreign countries, to simulate the other aspect of that same production system. I think they could ditch hardwood if they need the extra space to add other goods though, it doesn't really add anything since you can produce it everywhere you can make regular wood.
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Nov 9, 2022 05:56
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