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Tigey posted:Its not a "fear" it will be a way to disenfranchise the poor, it is literally the sole aim. Yes, this, there is literally no reason we need voter ID, I don't honestly believe there is a reason anywhere needs it if you set up the electoral system properly, the sole reason that the state has ever introduced more and more "official" processes for doing things is to reduce people's ability to do them.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:40
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It would be nice if we could fully transfer the vote from propertyhood to personhood (and in the same way the political actor from the politician to the person), but every one of the ideas they keep doing is very much not it. Like if someone subcontracted Votes for Women to Graham Linehan in 1912.
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Nov 9, 2022 00:48
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The Question IRL posted:So is some of this opposition to voter ID down to Privacy Concerns, some of it out of a fear it will be a way to disenfranchise the poor, and some of it down to this weird English "hatred of having written laws/Constitution because it always worked before and why change things now?" I think that's the UKMT position generally along with a general 'feels a bit fash mate' vibe, because passports and driving licenses as a requirement are already used as 'official' proof of ID to disenfranchise the poor (a national ID would in theory be cheaper).
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Nov 9, 2022 01:00
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Mine is genuinely just that I really do think that putting everything through official IDs is already conceding too much ground. I don't think people should need IDs to see a doctor, get a job, get a roof over their heads. And I don't think saying "well what if we made the ID centralized" is a good counter to that, because every single loving time you give the government the power to say who is allowed to have stuff and who isn't, they use it to take stuff away from people. And that's ignoring that half the things they want ID to "authorize" your access to shouldn't even be loving scarce to begin with, the only reason they are to create a market to sell them to people. If you want food you should have it, you want shelter you should have it, you want a doctor you should have them, the government doesn't need to know exactly what loving vegetables you spent your food benefits on to decide whether or not you are sufficiently proactive about your health to deserve a doctor. The only thing the government should be spending their time on is hunting down rich people to tax them into the dirt to fund the stuff that's free for the asking. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 01:04
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They should just go full tattooed barcode on your forehead as per Sprouts of Wrath. Or I suppose we could get microchipped instead and go on the pet register.
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Nov 9, 2022 01:52
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Tigey posted:Its not a "fear" it will be a way to disenfranchise the poor, it is literally the sole aim. To put this in perspective: in 2019 there were 595 cases of electoral fraud, and only 164 of those in the General Election. That's less than one case per constituency. And the great majority of them were campaigning offences - candidates giving the wrong address, forging signatures for their nominations and so on. Only 142 of the 595 were actual voting offences, and of those only two led to a conviction or police caution - neither of them in the GE. In summary: 32 million votes were cast in the 2019 General Election. There were zero provable cases of voting fraud.
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Nov 9, 2022 02:43
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We've managed a couple of thousand years without "~*~*~*~ ID Cards ~*~*~*~*". We can manage a few thousand more. It's up to you (them) to make the case, it's not up to me (us) to defend the lack of them.
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Nov 9, 2022 02:48
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On the subject of ID cards, I used to carry my carte de sejour with me when I lived in France (99-03). I think it was free to get, or certainly wasn't cost prohibitive as I was skint at the time. It was also very easy for a non French speaking person to get, and at no point did I feel as though any of my rights were being breached by having or carrying one. Quite the opposite in fact, it helped me to feel included. You were legally obliged to register and apply for one if you were living there for more than 3 months. I didn't apply until month 5, and nobody cared. I think ID cards are a good thing if they are done right and accessible to all. We're already proving our ID multiple times every day, from unlocking phones, swiping travel passes to using chip and pins. But alas the Tories are in charge, so of course it won't be done right
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Nov 9, 2022 03:21
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fuctifino posted:On the subject of ID cards, I used to carry my carte de sejour with me when I lived in France (99-03). I think it was free to get, or certainly wasn't cost prohibitive as I was skint at the time. It was also very easy for a non French speaking person to get, and at no point did I feel as though any of my rights were being breached by having or carrying one. Quite the opposite in fact, it helped me to feel included. You were legally obliged to register and apply for one if you were living there for more than 3 months. I didn't apply until month 5, and nobody cared. I don't think any colour of British govt would do it right. They'd insist on inserting a microchip with your entire financial, medical, employment, social media records on it as well as name, address, county and maybe NI number.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:29
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Apparently this is the uptodate 'acceptable ID' list: https://twitter.com/akersley/status/1589942252012699648 It includes the PASS card. Don't know what the original source of this list is. People who can verify you https://postoffice.citizencard.com/requirements-for-a-post-office-pass-card https://postoffice.citizencard.com/list-of-referees-validating-original-documents Permitted list of referees validating original document(s): Accountant Airline Pilot Articled Clerk of a Limited Company Assurance agent (of recognised Company) Bank / Building Society Official Barrister British Computer Society (BCS) - Professional grades which are Associate (AMBCS), Member (MBCS), Fellow (FBCS) (PN 25/2003) Chairman / Director of a Limited Company Chemist Chief Petty Officer Chiropodist Commissioner of Oaths / Notary Councilor (County / Local) Civil Servant (permanent) Dentist Designated Premises Supervisor Director / Manager of a VAT registered Charity Director / Manager / Personnel Officer of a VAT registered Company Doctor Engineer (qualified to a Degree in Engineering) Estate Agent Financial Services Intermediary (e.g. stockbroker or insurance broker) Fire Service Official Funeral Director Immigration Adviser (regulated by the Office of the Immigration Services Commissioner) Insurance Agent of a recognised Company (permanent) Journalist Justice of the Peace Legal Secretary (members and fellows of the Institute of legal secretaries) Local Government Officer Manager / Personnel Officer (of a Limited Company) Member of Parliament Merchant Navy Officer Minister of a recognised religion Nurse / Midwife (RGN and RMN) Officer of the armed services Optician Paralegal - Certified Paralegal, Qualified Paralegal or Associate Member of the Institute of Paralegals Person with honours (e.g. OBE, MBE etc.) Personal Licence Holder (of recognised Company; e.g. Licensee of Public House) Pharmacist Police Officer Post Office Official President / Secretary of a recognised Company Prison / Probation Officer Salvation Army Officer Social Worker Solicitor Surveyor Teacher / Lecturer (must be contactable at their place of work during academic holidays) Trade Union Senior Official Travel Agent (qualified) Valuer / Auctioneer Vet Warrant Officer https://twitter.com/c_mackain/status/1590041656534831105 Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 03:32
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fuctifino posted:On the subject of ID cards, I used to carry my carte de sejour with me when I lived in France (99-03). I think it was free to get, or certainly wasn't cost prohibitive as I was skint at the time. It was also very easy for a non French speaking person to get, and at no point did I feel as though any of my rights were being breached by having or carrying one. Quite the opposite in fact, it helped me to feel included. You were legally obliged to register and apply for one if you were living there for more than 3 months. I didn't apply until month 5, and nobody cared. I lived in France around the same time, also had a Carte de Sejour which I could (and did) use in lieu of a Passport, but my memory is when I needed to prove who I was an EDF or GDF bill was always sufficient. The joys of nationalized utility providers I guess.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:34
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biglads posted:I lived in France around the same time, also had a Carte de Sejour which I could (and did) use in lieu of a Passport, but my memory is when I needed to prove who I was an EDF or GDF bill was always sufficient. The joys of nationalized utility providers I guess. In Egypt, other than the ID card, the one thing that truly proved your ID & address was an electricity bill in your own name. I cherished mine as a Joanna Forriner without an ID card.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:40
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Permitted list of referees validating original document(s): That's a really bloody stupid thing.
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Nov 9, 2022 03:44
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Engineer with only a degree requirement is very LMBO. It's just a degree, I have one. There is chartered engineer which is a whole other kettle of fish but that isn't what is specified. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 03:59
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Yeah that new list is definitely a bit woolly. I don't know where that tweeter got it from.
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Nov 9, 2022 04:05
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Estate agent? Sure, why don't I get this pimply school-leaver to validate this MoD Form 90, makes perfect sense!
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Nov 9, 2022 04:18
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PASS card is interesting, they're £15 every 3 years. https://support.citizencard.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/how-much-does-a-citizencard-cost Apparently they also do a weird digital version that costs as little as 3 quid, but it has to be issued by an employer or college.
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Nov 9, 2022 05:03
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The citizencards we were issued at 16 during year 11 were hilariously easy to carefully scratch off the last digit of the year of birth and draw a new number back in with a fine permanent marker. So we could buy alcohol of course
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Nov 9, 2022 07:56
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Salisbury Snape posted:The citizencards we were issued at 16 during year 11 were hilariously easy to carefully scratch off the last digit of the year of birth and draw a new number back in with a fine permanent marker. So we could buy alcohol of course Didn't they just ask when your birthday was, not asking for any sort of proof? Pretty sure the cool kids in my year just lied and got an "official" fake ID that way. But then of course nowhere gave a gently caress about the card.
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Nov 9, 2022 08:24
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Only Kindness posted:We've managed a couple of thousand years without "~*~*~*~ ID Cards ~*~*~*~*". We can manage a few thousand more. Quite a few British colonies use them as part of their legacy. Turnabout is fair play.
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Nov 9, 2022 08:51
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It's been so long since I got one but I didn't realise provisional driving licences cost £34. I use my driving licence all the time to prove who I am for who needs me to and I think it lasts 10 years. I couldn't spot driving licences or passports in that list though. Are they not valid anymore or just classed as a different kind of document?
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Nov 9, 2022 09:26
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Permitted list of referees validating original document(s): Used Car Salesperson PPI Callcentre Operator Person Who Tries To Sell You Sky TV In the Trafford Centre
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Nov 9, 2022 09:30
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Glinner has been brought up a fair bit ITT recently. I knew the gist of his arseholery but hadn't gone fully down the rabbit hole. So I looked up a few interview videos where he whines about being "cancelled" and doubles down on his hateful opinions. I wouldn't recommend it as it made me loving FURIOUS. I wish there were a stronger word than "oval office", but it'll have to do: he is a total loving oval office. I really do try to see the best in people but there is nothing there to see. I'm glad he lost his livelihood and family and I genuinely hope he dies. Preferably very slowly and painfully. What an awful, awful excuse for a human being. I'm sorry if that sounded a bit strong.
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Nov 9, 2022 10:03
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franco posted:Glinner has been brought up a fair bit ITT recently. I knew the gist of his arseholery but hadn't gone fully down the rabbit hole. So I looked up a few interview videos where he whines about being "cancelled" and doubles down on his hateful opinions. I wouldn't recommend it as it made me loving FURIOUS. I wouldn't say that "glad" sounded a bit strong at all. Most of us would probably go with "ecstatic". Although personally I want him to live forever.
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Nov 9, 2022 10:09
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Kin posted:I couldn't spot driving licences or passports in that list though. Are they not valid anymore or just classed as a different kind of document?
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Nov 9, 2022 10:12
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Kin posted:It's been so long since I got one but I didn't realise provisional driving licences cost £34. I get one for free every three years due to having MS.  i find the rigmarole to get it is bloody annoying though... i hate paperwork.
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Nov 9, 2022 10:14
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franco posted:Glinner has been brought up a fair bit ITT recently. I knew the gist of his arseholery but hadn't gone fully down the rabbit hole. So I looked up a few interview videos where he whines about being "cancelled" and doubles down on his hateful opinions. I wouldn't recommend it as it made me loving FURIOUS. Neil Hannon and Arthur Mathews both refused to continue with the Father Ted musical unless he was exluded from it. Lol
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Nov 9, 2022 10:14
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I just find the focus on weaponising the wider gay community against trans people to be deeply worrying. Its such an obviously contrived divide and conquer strategy and guess who the right are coming for next. They are using trans people as a wedge to roll back decades of social liberalisation back to the days when gay people had to fear for their lives if they were found out.
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Nov 9, 2022 10:30
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I think Glinner's punishment is being Glinner
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Nov 9, 2022 10:39
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Would the solidarity fund be able to provide funds for people to get voting ID?
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Nov 9, 2022 10:40
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Private Speech posted:Engineer with only a degree requirement is very LMBO. 
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Nov 9, 2022 10:46
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Jedit posted:I wouldn't say that "glad" sounded a bit strong at all. Most of us would probably go with "ecstatic". Although personally I want him to live forever. Convex posted:Neil Hannon and Arthur Mathews both refused to continue with the Father Ted musical unless he was exluded from it. Lol Tomberforce posted:I just find the focus on weaponising the wider gay community against trans people to be deeply worrying. Its such an obviously contrived divide and conquer strategy and guess who the right are coming for next. They are using trans people as a wedge to roll back decades of social liberalisation back to the days when gay people had to fear for their lives if they were found out. The Wicked ZOGA posted:I think Glinner's punishment is being Glinner A-loving-men. And I'm glad I'm not alone.
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Nov 9, 2022 10:57
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franco posted:Glinner has been brought up a fair bit ITT recently. I knew the gist of his arseholery but hadn't gone fully down the rabbit hole. So I looked up a few interview videos where he whines about being "cancelled" and doubles down on his hateful opinions. I wouldn't recommend it as it made me loving FURIOUS. he now has doubts about global warming apparently lol
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Nov 9, 2022 10:58
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crispix posted:he now has doubts about global warming apparently lol Inevitable. I miss the days when you could just have your own niche bespoke brainworms , before social media demanded that you must subscribe to the entire buffet of idiotic bigotry
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Nov 9, 2022 11:00
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At this point I don't even know why anyone pays attention too anything Glinner does. Hes managed to completely alienate even those on the mainstream right. He might as well just be standing in speakers corner, shouting at people walking by.Angrymog posted:Would the solidarity fund be able to provide funds for people to get voting ID? I think that's a very good use for the fund.
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Nov 9, 2022 11:01
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And, this seems a bit crass after wishing death on somebody, but I'm really sorry, Maugrim. I hope you're doing okay and take care of yourself, please 
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Nov 9, 2022 11:01
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Mega Comrade posted:At this point I don't even know why anyone pays attention too anything Glinner does. Hes managed to completely alienate even those on the mainstream right. He might as well just be standing in speakers corner, shouting at people walking by.  for both.
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Nov 9, 2022 11:05
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Mega Comrade posted:At this point I don't even know why anyone pays attention too anything Glinner does.  Failed Imagineer posted:Inevitable. I miss the days when you could just have your own niche bespoke brainworms , before social media demanded that you must subscribe to the entire buffet of idiotic bigotry
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Nov 9, 2022 11:08
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Guavanaut posted:Crank magnetism has been a thing since at least the days of free energy enthusiasts in the 80s saying "also I heard they made AIDS from a sheep virus and a cow virus", probably going back to the John Birch society or the anti polio serum people. Fair. Like everything else, the tendencies were there but social media provided an accelerant. Internet makes you stupid etc , but we were always stupid
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Nov 9, 2022 11:12
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https://twitter.com/charlotterlynch/status/1590264372945092609 https://twitter.com/charlotterlynch/status/1590265215794679809
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Nov 9, 2022 11:13
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