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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Lostconfused posted:So far the only resources that the empire extracted in this war are what Ukraine had to offer, labour, raw material, and whatever financial wealth that can still be extracted from it. Also arguably some natural gas and f-35s, but I don’t think large scale arms sales were nearly as high as hoped in the spring. NATO does need to replenish stocks though. Otherwise I think it has been a net economic drag and the overall politiical balance of powers in Europe isn’t that different than before the war. A lot of this has been just average Ukrainians watching their country being destroyed for no particular reason.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:23
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The weapons exports thing is part and parcel of the economic stuff because most of NATO had developed arms industries that the Americans were able to buy outright, drive out of business with subsidies, bribe governments to purchase American arms instead etc. They became dependant on US arms as part of US policy and nobody pumped the brakes on that. The difference between stocks from the 80’s and new arms purchased today is that all of that money is going to America instead of domestic industries. It’s strengthening America’s financial position and the role of the dollar, since that’s the currency they’ll be bought in.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:25
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isnt european small arms the biggest and best in the world? Sig-Sauer is literally going to be the main battle rifle and machine gun of the entire american military.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:26
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Majorian posted:I take no joy in saying this, but if one of the points of this war was to weaken the American Empire, it has backfired spectacularly. You never managed to explain how the empire it self is stronger.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:26
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Al-Saqr posted:isnt european small arms the biggest and best in the world? Sig-Sauer is literally going to be the main battle rifle and machine gun of the entire american military. Sig Sauer is American now, as of 2020.  
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Nov 10, 2022 18:27
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Lostconfused posted:Again, how? I've said it a few times now: Europe is increasingly dependent on the U.S. for its defense, and less able to chart its own foreign policy. Frosted Flake posted:The weapons exports thing is part and parcel of the economic stuff because most of NATO had developed arms industries that the Americans were able to buy outright, drive out of business with subsidies, bribe governments to purchase American arms instead etc. Exactly.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:28
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Majorian posted:I've said it a few times now: Europe is increasingly dependent on the U.S. for its defense, and less able to chart its own foreign policy. And that's all? Well ok then. I don't see how that's a spectacular backfire but we can just disagree on these opinions.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:30
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Majorian posted:I've said it a few times now: Europe is increasingly dependent on the U.S. for its defense, and less able to chart its own foreign policy. Incapable, because domestic defence industries would require state ownership or at minimum direct investment which neoliberalism is not going to allow. They can’t imagine not depending on the US for defence because it’s beyond their ideological horizon to do what would be required for that to happen. Also the US will throw around all manner of diplomatic and economic leverage during procurement talks, they’re not going to let Euros choose their domestic firms over American competition consequence free.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:30
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Lostconfused posted:And that's all? I think it would be helpful if you'd explain why you think this war has not strengthened the American empire.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:33
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Majorian posted:I think it would be helpful if you'd explain why you think this war has not strengthened the American empire. I already did several times. Can you point out which parts didn't make sense to you? Edit: To cut down on the snark a bit. I am making a distinction between America (Canada is also America in this case) and American Empire. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 18:37 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 18:35
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Majorian posted:I've said it a few times now: Europe is increasingly dependent on the U.S. for its defense, and less able to chart its own foreign policy. In a long term sense though? If Russia is pushed back to minimal gains, why do the Europeans need the US that desperately especially since the US is already a waning power? I get that is the beltway dream but at a certain point you need something to back it up with.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:36
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Lostconfused posted:Again, how? Tens of thousands of dead and wounded Russian soldiers, thousands of equipment blown up, and NATO feeling more invigorated in its purpose than it has in a long time. And not a single dead American to boot. How has this war done anything to hurt American empire lol
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Nov 10, 2022 18:36
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Al-Saqr posted:even if the west demanded anything it would be a spectacular level of naïveté or stupidity for the Russians to believe them the russians dismantled the USSR for blue jeans. They are a naive and stupid people
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Nov 10, 2022 18:38
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Ardennes posted:In a long term sense though? If Russia is pushed back to minimal gains, why do the Europeans need the US that desperately especially since the US is already a waning power? If they sincerely feel threatened, or even just to replenish the billions of dollars of arms given away, they have no alternative but to spend US Dollars on US equipment.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:39
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Sure, this part in particular:Lostconfused posted:What it clarified is that western europe is clearly part of the US empire but the other countries, including nato members, are now free to pursue their own regional ambitions. Which will come at the cost to other nations that are supposedly all eager members of this empire. What other countries, do you think, will pursue their own regional ambitions to the detriment of the American empire? How is Turkey, for example, charting its own geopolitical course weakening the American empire? Turkey still buys an immense amount of military hardware from the U.S. Ardennes posted:In a long term sense though? If Russia is pushed back to minimal gains, why do the Europeans need the US that desperately especially since the US is already a waning power? Russia's always going to be a scary bogeyman for Europe, though. Being a nuclear superpower and the largest country in the world will do that. I don't know that the average European views the U.S. as that much of a waning power, either. We here view it as such, and a lot of Americans themselves can feel it, even if they can't articulate it in those terms. But I think European governments will be happy to get whatever "help" (BIG scare-quotes there) the U.S. offers them for as long as we can offer it. Majorian has issued a correction as of 18:43 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 18:39
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DutchDupe posted:Tens of thousands of dead and wounded Russian soldiers, thousands of equipment blown up, and NATO feeling more invigorated in its purpose than it has in a long time. And not a single dead American to boot. How has this war done anything to hurt American empire lol The rest of Europe is being impoverished, making them less capable in the future confrontations with China. US is securing control over the empire for the coming struggler, but the empire is ultimately weaker for it.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:40
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Majorian posted:Sure, this part in particular: And it's still dealing with Russia unlike the rest of Europe. When is US going to bomb the Turkish pipelines?
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Nov 10, 2022 18:41
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I gotta say, "Never Settle" is a great slogan for a killing machine company, because if there's one thing I feel when being shot at, it's 'Never Settle'
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Nov 10, 2022 18:41
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Biden's pretty much given his blessing to Turkey being a diplomatic channel between Ukraine and Russia. Erdogan is freelancing, and he's obviously been testing the limits of being an American ally while maintaining a cozy relationship with Russia for a while, but he's not as far out on a limb here as people think sometimes.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:42
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Al-Saqr posted:I gotta say, "Never Settle" is a great slogan for a killing machine company, because if there's one thing I feel when being shot at, it's 'Never Settle' Oneplus phones arent great but i wouldnt describe them as killing machines
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Nov 10, 2022 18:46
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Lostconfused posted:And it's still dealing with Russia unlike the rest of Europe. When is US going to bomb the Turkish pipelines? Turkey's still decidedly more in the NATO camp than the Russian camp, though. They're still sending aid to Ukraine, they're putting their own ships on the line to keep the grain flowing out of Odessa right under Russia's noses, and they still import most of their hardware from us. Also I wouldn't say that Turkey is unlike the rest of Europe in dealing with Russia; plenty of other European countries are still dealing with Russia economically. Turkey's just doing it more openly. Why would the U.S. bomb Turkish pipelines? That doesn't serve U.S. interests at all. Dr Kool-AIDS posted:Biden's pretty much given his blessing to Turkey being a diplomatic channel between Ukraine and Russia. Erdogan is freelancing, and he's obviously been testing the limits of being an American ally while maintaining a cozy relationship with Russia for a while, but he's not as far out on a limb here as people think sometimes. Yup. Turkey would always rather be inside the tent pissing out.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:46
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Majorian posted:Sure, this part in particular: If anything the war confirmed they aren’t much of a threat and that European really should be concerned about other matters. Honestly, I think Chinese investment is going to be a long term more important and it energy prices stay elevated, the Russians could get back into the game. Money talks, and if the USD does erode long term, the EU is going to be looking for Yuan.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:48
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Majorian posted:Turkey's still decidedly more in the NATO camp than the Russian camp, though. They're still sending aid to Ukraine, they're putting their own ships on the line to keep the grain flowing out of Odessa right under Russia's noses, and they still import most of their hardware from us. Also I wouldn't say that Turkey is unlike the rest of Europe in dealing with Russia; plenty of other European countries are still dealing with Russia economically. Turkey's just doing it more openly.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:48
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DutchDupe posted:Tens of thousands of dead and wounded Russian soldiers, thousands of equipment blown up, and NATO feeling more invigorated in its purpose than it has in a long time. And not a single dead American to boot. How has this war done anything to hurt American empire lol it's not a zero sum game where the US empire and Russia are the only players, so it's possible for all involved to lose and gain with uneven degrees ofc we've all acknowledged China is the real winner, and Turkey getting to be analogized to the Joe Manchin of NATO, wow what an honor!!
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Nov 10, 2022 18:49
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is america the joe biden of nato ?
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Nov 10, 2022 18:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:the USSR fought the Great Patriotic War china is not capitalist, but they are nationalist. unlike the USSR they are explicitly not leading or supporting an international struggle for socialism, they are building socialism with chinese characteristics. Majorian posted:Nah, not really. It's playing out before our eyes. The U.S. empire's only being strengthened by this, at least in the medium-term. 
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Nov 10, 2022 18:51
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When the US gets bogged down in a war where they throw away a bunch of lives and money for no good reason: evidence of American decline When Russia gets bogged down in a far more costly war where they throw away a bunch of lives and money for no good reason: also conveniently evidence of American decline
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Nov 10, 2022 18:54
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Zodium posted:china is not capitalist, but they are nationalist. unlike the USSR they are explicitly not leading or supporting an international struggle for socialism, they are building socialism with chinese characteristics.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:54
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OctaMurk posted:is america the joe biden of nato ? that is correct, which means Joe Biden is the Joe Biden of the Joe Biden of NATO
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Nov 10, 2022 18:54
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:When the US gets bogged down in a war where they throw away a bunch of lives and money for no good reason: evidence of American decline
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Nov 10, 2022 18:55
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Ardennes posted:If anything the war confirmed they aren’t much of a threat and that European really should be concerned about other matters. Honestly, I think Chinese investment is going to be a long term more important and it energy prices stay elevated, the Russians could get back into the game. Yeah but "long-term" is the key phrase there. The end of the petrodollar isn't as at-hand as a lot of us ITT would hope. It will happen someday, but it's going to take a while. I don't think Russia was thinking that long-term when it planned out this war. In the meantime, I think Europe is pretty continually afraid of Russia. It has been the case for centuries. It doesn't matter how often Russia runs its military behemoth into a rock wall; it's still scary enough for Europeans to view them as a potential threat. Lostconfused posted:This is all relative then and you are going to have to do more to back up your claims of spectacular. If "spectacular" is the part of my claim that you object to, that's fine, I will amend it: if Russia's plan was to weaken the American empire through this war, it has backfired.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:55
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India only started doing independent diplomacy after this war started under the stellar leadership of great sage modi. Non aligned movement? Oh that was what Tito and Nasser did and now they are dead.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:56
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I just spent several posts explaining that claim my dude. Tankbuster posted:India only started doing independent diplomacy after this war started under the stellar leadership of great sage modi. Non aligned movement? Oh that was what Tito and Nasser did and now they are dead. Indeed, and who is this Nehru of whom you speak?
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Nov 10, 2022 18:58
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The US's aura is weakening every second... I can sense it
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Nov 10, 2022 18:59
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:When the US gets bogged down in a war where they throw away a bunch of lives and money for no good reason: evidence of American decline Correct.
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Nov 10, 2022 18:59
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if Nehru is so great how come he doesnt have a comically sized statue the way some random dude who didnt do much of anything but hindutvas worship him did? not so great now is he?!
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Nov 10, 2022 19:00
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:When the US gets bogged down in a war where they throw away a bunch of lives and money for no good reason: evidence of American decline i don’t think military failure is evidence of US decline because spending money is the whole point - we create money out of thin air that the rest of treats as the equivalent of something tangible like gold. the world tolerates this because they need that gold equivalent to just operate their country at a baseline. no other country can do that, and even the EU caps their deficit at 3% of GDP. the us’ decline will come at the hands of a bloc that can offer a better deal for the rest of the world. once that happens, there can be opposition to the US without fear of sanctions turning you into a Venezuela or Iran.
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Nov 10, 2022 19:01
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Majorian posted:In the meantime, I think Europe is pretty continually afraid of Russia. It has been the case for centuries. It doesn't matter how often Russia runs its military behemoth into a rock wall; it's still scary enough for Europeans to view them as a potential threat.
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Nov 10, 2022 19:01
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RE American Empire: Haven't China, India, Russia and Saudi Arabia started buying and selling gas and oil, at least in part, in currencies other than the dollar?
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Nov 10, 2022 19:02
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| # ? May 25, 2024 16:27 |
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Organ Fiend posted:RE American Empire: they've done experiments but nothing major, the petro-dollar still stands but it will definitely not be the case in a few years.
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Nov 10, 2022 19:03
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