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No company anywhere does agile “properly” because once the consultants who introduce it leave, management will strip away anything they don’t like about it and leave you with something that is neither agile nor the way you were doing things before, but a clunky mix of both that the business will either power through or collapse under the strain of.
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Nov 11, 2022 22:01
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Breetai posted:What are the good ideas of agile, like in a nutshell? I'm sure that the way it's being done to me is not the way it's supposed to be done, but I just have no clue as to what it's actually supposed to achieve. Enables and encourages individual contributors to define the real impacts (effort and results) of chasing various requested changes Defines the daily status meeting as a a 15 minute summary affair Encourages finding the shortest cycle time for change implementation where you can still usefully define immediate goals and review results as fast as plausible. An organization's allergy often starts at point 1 or 2 although there's plenty of reasons point 4 is impossible for huge swathes of tech let alone anybody trying to do weird stuff like agile for generic front or back office management.
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Nov 11, 2022 22:08
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Motronic posted:Iterative development at the cost of predictable delivery. Not that delivery is actually predictable in waterfall, but the idea of it still sticks around. This gives me an idea - perhaps there's a market for a firm delivery system paired with an agile methodology? I think it would appeal to the managment and individual contributors alike, and be able to take the best aspects of the Agile system as well as provide a means to deliver a product on a reliable date? I guess what I want to know is if y'all think there is a market for FRAgile (TM)?
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Nov 11, 2022 22:10
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thepopmonster posted:This gives me an idea - perhaps there's a market for a firm delivery system paired with an agile methodology? I think it would appeal to the managment and individual contributors alike, and be able to take the best aspects of the Agile system as well as provide a means to deliver a product on a reliable date? It's called SAFe and has been around for a while. It's waterfall with agile terminology.
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Nov 11, 2022 22:14
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Breetai posted:What are the good ideas of agile, like in a nutshell? I'm sure that the way it's being done to me is not the way it's supposed to be done, but I just have no clue as to what it's actually supposed to achieve. However Agile isn't alone in doing this, and of course pretty much everyone does most of it wrong. The #1 error project managers do is think adapting to feedback means we should let the customer change the entire scope of the project at any time while staying committed to the delivery date ourselves. Like Motronic said if you don't have a good PM (and good PMs are extremely rare) you easily end up with "waterfall with a kanban board"
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Nov 12, 2022 00:00
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Collateral Damage posted:Iterative development, keeping the "customer" in the loop and adapting to feedback while maintaining the overall goal, working towards getting a minimum viable product out in the first couple of sprints and building on top of that, breaking abstract goals down into small, managable tasks. Also, what it often means in reality is that you roll out a product that doesn’t really work quite right, and because end-users hate giving feedback, they just don’t use it and stick to whatever solutions they used to use, and you spend more time persuading them “it’s better now, please use it and justify the project’s existence” than you would have if you’d just spent the time building something that worked first time
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Nov 12, 2022 00:17
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I find LEAN helpful for reducing waste and simplifying operations not because it's magic or anything but it provides a framework for my team of mostly new entry - mid level managers to approach changes. That being said I find some of the people who are really invested in it to be funny sometimes. I took a 2 day course a couple years ago and one of the students said he takes the exaxt same class every year for the last eight years and his LEAN skills level up every time.
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Nov 12, 2022 01:18
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I would like to work somewhere that actually does agile, but most places seem to have this hard requirement of deadlines even when building products for customers that do not enforce deadlines. Honestly I wish we'd just switch to waterfall so that at least cross team requirements were known and planned for ahead of time. Hell, SAFe was better than this reactionary crap we do now.
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Nov 12, 2022 01:33
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Collateral Damage posted:Iterative development, keeping the "customer" in the loop and adapting to feedback while maintaining the overall goal, working towards getting a minimum viable product out in the first couple of sprints and building on top of that, breaking abstract goals down into small, managable tasks. So... Not really a system that is appropriate to apply to a platform management team that focuses largely on policy development, implementation and enforcement and whose only exposure to 'customers' is via it's secondary bau function of acting as a level 1 helpdesk for access/'why doesn't my code work's enquiries.
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Nov 12, 2022 01:47
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Escape From Noise posted:The use and prestige of colored belts like some strip mall karate school is cracking me up. At Motorola, if you did a green belt or a black belt you got a special green/black card that was taller than a regular pass so it would peek out from behind and people could see that you were green/black certified.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:12
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Agile is also nonsense when you work in jobs where "whatever you are working on has to be stopped asap because somebody poo poo themselves on tv while holding your product" yet they keep trying. I was so glad to be free when I moved jobs. Do a quick morning status check-in with my team and off they go, no more pretending that the workload the week started with is what we'll deliver this week when that was, 100% of the time, not going to happen.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:22
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I just add poo poo like Lean Six Sigma, Scrum Master, and PMP to my email signature but I don't have certs. Nobody will ever ask to see them.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:27
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Barudak posted:Agile is also nonsense when you work in jobs where "whatever you are working on has to be stopped asap because somebody poo poo themselves on tv while holding your product" yet they keep trying. If you actually track velocity and use it as a planning tool rather than a KPI then even this can be handled.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:32
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:I just add poo poo like Lean Six Sigma, Scrum Master, and PMP to my email signature but I don't have certs. Nobody will ever ask to see them. 
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Nov 12, 2022 05:42
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Stolen Valor in the corporate space
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Nov 12, 2022 05:56
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You'll definitely get asked for your PMP
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Nov 12, 2022 06:10
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Motronic posted:It's called SAFe and has been around for a while. It's waterfall with agile terminology. I think I might be in a pod. We're doing SAFe, but we're doing it a scrum of scums where the ICs and low-level people managers do Agile, and the product owners/managers and senior people managers coordinate Agile teams and standing squads so people like me can just do work. Our recent re-org was meant to make this work better. We now have Domains where the work is, and also Product Owners/Managers, Chapters with Sections full of ICs, and Catalysts to do... funky magic I guess. The idea is you put all of the same kind of ICs in the same Section so Product people who are putting together an Agile team for a project have one stop shopping for each specialty; they negotiate with Chapter and Section leadership to get people allocated to work on their Products. I'm more Operational IT so this is all noise from where I sit, at least until I want a new role in the organization.
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Nov 12, 2022 06:38
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COPE 27 posted:You'll definitely get asked for your PMP "Oh sorry, it's a different acronym, Please many people. I'm a servant-leader! I can change it if it's causing confusion!"
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Nov 12, 2022 06:48
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Breetai posted:So... Not really a system that is appropriate to apply to a platform management team that focuses largely on policy development, implementation and enforcement and whose only exposure to 'customers' is via it's secondary bau function of acting as a level 1 helpdesk for access/'why doesn't my code work's enquiries. But PMs and management coaches are always desperate to justify their existence so will try to shoehorn their favorite methodology into everything.
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Nov 12, 2022 13:31
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Two tech guys are at a nearby table talking about working at Meta (I think) and I know I complain a lot but holy hell I'm glad I'm not in tech.
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Nov 12, 2022 13:51
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Collateral Damage posted:Nope, that's not a use case where the major concepts of agile are suitable. In this case my manager has absolutely drunk the kool-aid of agile, didn't understand it in the first instance, and is advocating her misinterpretation of what it constitutes while applying it indiscriminately like a hammer in want of a nail. Before my team imploded (long story short by month's end 3 people would have left a team of 6 in as many weeks) she was planning on getting everyone paid agile training and I was looking forward to innocently asking questions about my manager's practices and how exactly they are agile and supposed to be in any way good. But I'm outta here soon so gently caress it.
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Nov 12, 2022 13:57
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Its almost criminal we don't have several twitter employees posting itt on an hourly basis
Outrail fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 12, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 14:53
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I think you mean ex Twitter employees since nobody actually works for Twitter anymore.
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Nov 12, 2022 15:01
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Invalid Validation posted:I think you mean ex Twitter employees since nobody actually works for Twitter anymore. That too. I'm guessing the SA twitter employees either don't exist or are waiting for the severance in case they draw the ire of the richest/thinnest skinned man outside of politics.
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Nov 12, 2022 15:10
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tactlessbastard posted:They released the comments from the employee survey to management. I know this one. The company will be rolling out a Diversity and Inclusion initiative. Thus focusing on something that is the current trending topic, and of minor importance to the actual worker. At least in my company there is this huge D&I push. While it would be good to get a more diverse workforce, recruitment, and hiring is all management and HR. At best, the workers attitudes can affect retention. And only by trying to keep the workplace from being toxic. My company had a survey in back at the end of September, and there hasn’t been any info coming out about it yet. The executives must be melting their brains trying to figure out which minute nugget of the survey they can spin into a win.
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Nov 12, 2022 15:13
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I am the primary stakeholder for a small department (~25 people) and something Agile-ish is working well for us. I am in constant contact with my PM and PO, and our users give absolutely ruthless feedback. We have been able to re-prioritize and incrementally develop based on the feedback. I cannot see how you would scale this to some of our other departments. I’ve sat in their sprint review meetings and they have 5+ stakeholders representing 200+ people. Everything on that scale ends up as waterfall with a thin varnish of Agile terminology. I’ve spoken to some of our Product people and apparently my level of in involvement is an extreme outlier, but it works. It helps that I am an IC whose job is 50% process improvement stuff and 50% catching poo poo before it escalates to my boss. In conclusion, I am underpaid.
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Nov 12, 2022 15:13
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:I just add poo poo like Lean Six Sigma, Scrum Master, and PMP to my email signature but I don't have certs. Nobody will ever ask to see them. king poo poo right here (I still do this with one of my previous certs that required bullshit recertification criteria just so the company could continue to bilk you)
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Nov 12, 2022 15:37
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Invalid Validation posted:I think you mean ex Twitter employees since nobody actually works for Twitter anymore. 
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Nov 12, 2022 16:12
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Invalid Validation posted:I think you mean ex Twitter employees since nobody actually works for Twitter anymore. Lol no, people still work at Twitter and have to convince themselves they're staying on to help right the sinking ship even though they're miserable and their boss is an insane, unpredictable, dictatorial whackadoo. Wish I'd bookmarked that article, someone posted it on Thursday in the Elon thread and it was bewildering just how abusively true believer techbros will treat themselves.
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Nov 12, 2022 16:38
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Scientastic posted:How do I buy this for everyone in my family? You have to use the left nipple (materialism) to spend money to purchase a good.
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Nov 12, 2022 16:55
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secular woods sex posted:I am the primary stakeholder for a small department (~25 people) and something Agile-ish is working well for us. 'Something Agile-ish' is just 'effectivily managing poo poo without getting sucked into buzzword driven pseduo management'. As far as I can tell Agile is basically: some dipshits took an existing and decently made wheel and slapped a label on it to claim they'd invented the best new wheel. Then some other dipshits took the label and slapped it on their lovely square wheel to claim their wheel is also the same best new wheel. Neither wheel is any better than a regular well made wheel without a label on it. It's brand loyalty sickness.
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Nov 12, 2022 17:20
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Outrail posted:'Something Agile-ish' is just 'effectivily managing poo poo without getting sucked into buzzword driven pseduo management'. I say Agile-ish because I am not certified and don’t give a poo poo as long as it is effective and gets me my incremental improvements.
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Nov 13, 2022 01:27
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Something Agile-ish would be an awesome thread title
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Nov 13, 2022 01:33
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One of the dumbest and silliest things I ever had to put up with in the workplace is something called the FISH! Philosophy. It's supposed to create happy individuals in the workplace. I worked at a call center where we did it. It didn't last very long, not even a year. I don't think it really works in call centers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish!_Philosophy Anybody else ever have to deal with this?
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Nov 13, 2022 03:04
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My vague memory is Fish is the "gently caress you, have "fun"" philosphy right? I think it was the one that makes sense if you have material benefit from external interactions (i.e. sales with commission or business ownership) but is otherwise a crushing "smile for the bullshit we heap on you or be destroyed"
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Nov 13, 2022 03:08
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TotalLossBrain posted:Something Agile-ish would be an awesome thread title Dumb poo poo your work does - Something Agile-ish
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Nov 13, 2022 03:11
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We have been using Scrum at work for a few years now, and it's been boiled down to "put not nearly enough work in the sprint every two weeks, and ignore Sywert putting that in the retrospective every single goddamn time". I've given up and just started working on personal projects instead of twiddling my thumbs.
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Nov 13, 2022 07:45
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rockinricky posted:One of the dumbest and silliest things I ever had to put up with in the workplace is something called the FISH! Philosophy. It's supposed to create happy individuals in the workplace. I worked at a call center where we did it. It didn't last very long, not even a year. I don't think it really works in call centers. Oh hell yeah back in the mists of time when I was a teenage retail worker we got a new store manager and he tried this poo poo. He was so into this dumbass philosophy that he made us all stay after closing to watch the film once. The problem was he was a total rear end in a top hat who absolutely nobody got along with, and his big focus was on the “choose your attitude” part because it gave him an excuse to say that we were all just choosing to be pissed off and miserable about our lovely new boss making our already crappy jobs even crappier, and we should try choosing to be happy instead. He was also big into singling people out as ‘mood hoovers’ which also did wonders for morale, naturally. Edit: I remember once I was unlocking one of the stock cages at the front of the store for him and it had a lock with a known fussy key. I’m wrestling with the lock for probably 20-30 seconds and dude turns to the customer who’s waiting for whatever gadget it was I was trying to get out of merchandise jail and hits her with “I’m sorry for the wait ma’am, he’s a little bit retarded” Cool guy! As far as I know by the time I left the company he’d been promoted to a regional position. History Comes Inside! fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 10:53
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Sywert of Thieves posted:I've given up and just started working on personal projects instead of twiddling my thumbs. This is the way.
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Nov 13, 2022 14:26
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Sywert of Thieves posted:We have been using Scrum at work for a few years now, and it's been boiled down to "put not nearly enough work in the sprint every two weeks, and ignore Sywert putting that in the retrospective every single goddamn time". This feels more like a feature than a bug
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Nov 13, 2022 14:35
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