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DeadlyMuffin posted:No kidding. I never said otherwise. Then why, on God's green and fuzzy Earth, is it so hard to understand that if Congress writes a law that depends on the same constitutional basis as Obergfell, it provides no benefit, because it stands or falls with the constutional underpinnings in that decision? Having the Respect For Marriage Act use an entirely different basis (full faith and credit) is a good tactic to protect gay marriage in case we get Dobbsed again. In a good and sane world, this whole issue would be sidestepped by having a Constitution that isn't treated like holy writ and we could pass an amendment to explicitly say that gay marriage is legal (among other things), but we don't live in that world, we live in this one.
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Nov 17, 2022 09:19
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Kenlon posted:Then why, on God's green and fuzzy Earth, is it so hard to understand that if Congress writes a law that depends on the same constitutional basis as Obergfell, it provides no benefit, because it stands or falls with the constutional underpinnings in that decision? Having the Respect For Marriage Act use an entirely different basis (full faith and credit) is a good tactic to protect gay marriage in case we get Dobbsed again. If you're asking about the line of discussion that 1. Was several pages ago 2. I answered the exact question you're asking multiple times 3. I was probated for I'd suggest going back and re-reading it because I'm not discussing it further. I think the probation ended that one. The post you quoted was responding to a discussion about if gay people were a protected class. If that's what you want to discuss, grand, but my impression was that there wasn't much left to go over.
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Nov 17, 2022 09:38
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So we’re almost certainly staring down a default next summer now https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1592941500052242434?s=46&t=g8IqNL74tgZcZ9FZycYcJA
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Nov 17, 2022 14:51
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A bunch of news about the next Congress: - Nancy Pelosi is sending a letter to all House Dems today with "an update on her future in Congress." https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/pelosi-likely-clarify-future-plans-week-sources-say-rcna57611?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma quote:Pelosi plans to address her future in Congress on Thursday - Republicans can't organize around a legislative agenda and they don't think the Democratic Senate will agree to any bill that passes the House, so they are just spending the next two years doing investigations and threatening to hold up the budget for spending cuts. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/16/us/politics/republicans-house-majority-mccarthy.html The main things they are going to be focused on: - Investigations into the DOJs treatment of January 6th defendants. - Investigations on Nancy Pelosi (just in general, no specific issue). - Investigations into the acts of activist groups like Black Lives Matter during the 2020 George Floyd riots and protests. - Investigations into the "politicization of the Justice Department." - Investigations into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's relationship with the Chinese government and whether it influenced American policy to benefit China. - Investigations into whether Biden ignored the advice of generals and endangered American troops by withdrawing from Afghanistan too quickly. - Investigations into the motives behind "job-crushing regulations coming from every agency." - Investigations into new sensitivity training and racial tolerance requirements in the armed forces. - Investigations into the material and training the DOJ forces police departments to complete when they are under consent decrees. - Investigations into Anthony Fauci. quote:The main question going forward is whether Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, who was nominated on Tuesday to lead the new Republican majority, can achieve the unity necessary to perform fundamental tasks such as funding the government, or whether unyielding far-right members will make the new speaker’s life miserable and the House an unmanageable mess. quote:For Mr. McCarthy, his party’s win came in the worst possible way. The much thinner than expected majority means fewer Republicans from swing districts who might be averse to provoking chaos, making him more reliant on the fire-breathing hard-right members who triumphed in safe, ruby-red districts on the promise of political warfare against Mr. Biden. quote:“It is going to be hard,” said Representative Fred Upton, a retiring Republican centrist from Michigan, about the task ahead for the new leaders, who are already contending with demands from the right to agree to restrictions that would severely limit their power. “It is going to be really hard, especially when it comes to producing results.” quote:The only results that interest many in the House majority are those that inflict political pain on Mr. Biden and congressional Democrats, as demanded by their MAGA constituents. In a closed-door meeting of Republicans on Monday, right-wing lawmakers including Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia extracted a promise that their leaders would investigate Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Justice Department for their treatment of defendants jailed in connection with the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.
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Nov 17, 2022 15:40
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According to Jake Sherman, Reps. Katherine Clark and Hakeem Jeffries are making calls to other House Dems to get support for leadership votes. Doesn't confirm that Pelosi is stepping down, but those two apparently think it is a real possibility. https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1593210307828412416
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Nov 17, 2022 16:11
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Confirmation that Pelosi intends to step down today and that Hakeem Jeffries has enough votes to be Minority Leader. Jim Clyburn may also step down from his leadership role. https://twitter.com/tarapalmeri/status/1593253538012225537
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Nov 17, 2022 16:13
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Not that Jefferies is better, but they need to replace leadership. I believe every single one of them is over 80 years old.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:22
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FlamingLiberal posted:Not that Jefferies is better, but they need to replace leadership. I believe every single one of them is over 80 years old. Doesn't Jefferies have a really lovely history of picking fights with progressives and blaming them? Just seems like more of the same.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:Not that Jefferies is better, but they need to replace leadership. I believe every single one of them is over 80 years old. Yep. Jefferies and Clark are in their 50's, so while exactly super young, they are almost 30 years younger than most of the current leadership. Not clear on whether Steny Hoyer is staying or not.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:25
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Vire posted:Doesn't Jefferies have a really lovely history of picking fights with progressives and blaming them? Just seems like more of the same. He's a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I don't recall him having any high profile fights with progressives, but he is from a district in Brooklyn and therefore loves Israel very much. That is the only major issue I think he might have had conflict with some progressives on (although, with a few exceptions, I don't think many progressives in congress have picked huge fights over Israel in general.)
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Nov 17, 2022 16:29
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He's a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I don't recall him having any high profile fights with progressives, but he is from a district in Brooklyn and therefore loves Israel very much. That is the only major issue I think he might have had conflict with some progressives on (although, with a few exceptions, I don't think many progressives in congress have picked huge fights over Israel in general.) He has fought publicly with AoC multiple times as well as started Team Blue Pac explicitly to fight against progressives in the primaries. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/453308-jeffries-defends-democratic-caucus-tweet-slamming-ocasio-cortez-chief-of-staff/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/politics/hakeem-jeffries-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-liberals/index.html https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-democrats-launch-pac-protect-incumbents-attacks-within-n1272428
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Nov 17, 2022 16:38
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Vire posted:Doesn't Jefferies have a really lovely history of picking fights with progressives and blaming them? Just seems like more of the same. He formed a pac with Gottheimer to fight progressive challengers, maybe it makes sense to be a part of such a pac, but doing it with Gottheimer is a blaring siren to me. Also this response is hilarious: https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1465712559617568768
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Nov 17, 2022 16:41
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Kalli posted:He has fought publicly with AoC multiple times as well as started Team Blue Pac explicitly to fight against progressives in the primaries. The first link isn't really picking a fight. But, the last one about the PAC is a good point I forgot about.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:42
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Jefferies is essentially 2/3 of the Dem caucus. They are aren’t going to let an actual progressive into leadership.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:44
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How is Jefferies regarded in his ability to wheel and deal and get votes whipped and the party in line? IMHO if that's not there everything else is window dressing. It's not often that a House minority leader actually has to do more than flick toothpicks into the drop ceiling all day but it seems like this may be one of those times. I'd very much prefer to not have every budget be a massive crisis between two horrible options, which feels a lot more important to me since the progressives aren't going to rock the boat anyway, meaning him holding them in affection or contempt doesn't matter.
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Nov 17, 2022 16:46
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Epic High Five posted:How is Jefferies regarded in his ability to wheel and deal and get votes whipped and the party in line? IMHO if that's not there everything else is window dressing. It's not often that a House minority leader actually has to do more than flick toothpicks into the drop ceiling all day but it seems like this may be one of those times. I'd very much prefer to not have every budget be a massive crisis between two horrible options, which feels a lot more important to me since the progressives aren't going to rock the boat anyway, meaning him holding them in affection or contempt doesn't matter. He's never been a whip or vote manager. He was the caucus chair, whose job is basically to help determine committee assignments, try to get everyone in the caucus on the same message, and manage the day-to-day scheduling/meetings for the caucus. Basically, they act as HR/manager between members to craft legislative policies that as many people in the caucus as possible can support, helps set the rules and make sure everyone abides by them, makes sure everyone has input on the agenda in weekly meetings, and tries to get everyone to play nice with each other in public and private. So, he has definitely been involved in negotiations with the whole caucus to get a consensus, hosting hearings for everyone to air grievances and get on the same page, and counting votes. But, he has never been an arm-twister or an official whip. No clue how that plays out. It will also depend on who the new whip is.
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Nov 17, 2022 17:00
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https://twitter.com/HouseGOP/status/1593258060771827713 I think this is supposed to be about Hunter Biden? It just sounds like the House Republicans are impressed by Joe's superior size and physique though. edit: so this is really the messaging they're going with, huh https://twitter.com/HouseGOP/status/1593253229747265545 Youth Decay fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 17:32
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I really wish this was actually as cool as they make them sound. https://twitter.com/HouseGOP/status/1593252951060934656?t=faEnLuZY3SdLCXExeJ50vg&s=19
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Nov 17, 2022 17:38
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The Hunter Biden stuff was literally hammered nonstop and elevated by all national outlets for 2 months leading up to 2020. How you can still look at the whole thing and believe a single person gives the first poo poo about it is insane to me. It's a shame that nobody called to speak at these things will treat them with the contempt they deserve. Don't show up at all when called, or do show up but just read the Constitution or something cringe like that. Also declaring Joe to be a BIG GUY right after it's become obvious that Large Lad Theory is a winner is a frankly stupid choice.
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Nov 17, 2022 17:44
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And of course they're putting Gym Jordan in charge of it (at least that's my presumption from him tweeting about it). It's like they want people to mock the investigation. Also "Biden Crime Fanily" when you're still protecting Bootleg Mob Boss Donald Trump is pretty 
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Nov 17, 2022 17:50
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 Glad to see the GOP are determined to keep loving that chicken right into 2024, it should be a hilarious couple of years where they clearly fail to accomplish anything while alienating anyone who isn't 4 layers deep-fried on QAnon fairytales
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Nov 17, 2022 17:59
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I think they are fully anticipating that Trump is going to be indicted and tried for extremely serious crimes with a high probability that he could actually be convicted on something. They are probably butthurt about that and really want to do whatever they can to paint Biden as somehow being immoral or corrupt to at the very least "both-sides" it and neutralize Trump crimes as an issue in 2024. If they can't do that, although this board tends to be pessimistic and cynical about this, it really will be a huge problem that will drown out any message the GOP tries to run on.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:01
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Rigel posted:I think they are fully anticipating that Trump is going to be indicted and tried for extremely serious crimes with a high probability that he could actually be convicted on something. They are probably butthurt about that and really want to do whatever they can to paint Biden as somehow being immoral or corrupt to at the very least "both-sides" it and neutralize Trump crimes as an issue in 2024. If they can't do that, although this board tends to be pessimistic and cynical about this, it really will be a huge problem that will drown out any message the GOP tries to run on. They are also trying to deflect because if Trump even gets a little bit of pressure he is going to flip on the members who helped him out.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:10
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So the GOP is just giving up all pretense of trying to govern and do things that might actually help the American people, huh? I mean, it's not surprising that they'd take that turn, but you'd think they'd at least want to try to appeal to people outside their lunatic base, considering they just had a fairly lackluster midterm performance. Plus, all the investigations could have a weird upside in that it might push Joe toward deciding not to run for reelection, which in my opinion would actually benefit Democrats. Especially so if Trump's on the ballot.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:12
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:So the GOP is just giving up all pretense of trying to govern and do things that might actually help the American people, huh? I mean, it's not surprising that they'd take that turn, but you'd think they'd at least want to try to appeal to people outside their lunatic base, considering they just had a fairly lackluster midterm performance. they still get like 45-60% of the votes depending on area and it's way easier than actually doing things so why wouldn't they
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Nov 17, 2022 18:18
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Rigel posted:I think they are fully anticipating that Trump is going to be indicted and tried for extremely serious crimes with a high probability that he could actually be convicted on something. They are probably butthurt about that and really want to do whatever they can to paint Biden as somehow being immoral or corrupt to at the very least "both-sides" it and neutralize Trump crimes as an issue in 2024. If they can't do that, although this board tends to be pessimistic and cynical about this, it really will be a huge problem that will drown out any message the GOP tries to run on. This is 100% what it is. The "Biden Crime Family" is aping the "Trump Crime Family" rhetoric that's been prevalent since 2017 among liberals.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:19
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:So the GOP is just giving up all pretense of trying to govern and do things that might actually help the American people, huh? I mean, it's not surprising that they'd take that turn, but you'd think they'd at least want to try to appeal to people outside their lunatic base, considering they just had a fairly lackluster midterm performance. People vote on feels, not on policy or governance unless it gets real bad.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:21
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Just thought of something about Feinstein. If she retires as now widely expected, then I bet she was wanting to retire for a while but was asked to hang on till after the midterms so that there would not be a special election. We now know that it would have been a trivially easy hold, but at the time with a lot of people expecting a red wave, if it was monstrous enough who knows how high that wave could have crested. No reason to just throw another Senate seat into the fire that would drain money away from other seats.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:24
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So the magic key to ending the inflation crisis is on Hunter Biden's laptop then?
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Nov 17, 2022 18:27
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Tatsuta Age posted:they still get like 45-60% of the votes depending on area and it's way easier than actually doing things so why wouldn't they True, and I suppose anything the GOP House would pass would be DOA in the Senate anyway. Like I said, it's not surprising that they're taking this turn, but I don't think it helps them at all with the people they need to persuade if they want to win the Presidency and keep the House in 2024. But maybe that doesn't even matter as much given the 2024 Senate map. nine-gear crow posted:So the magic key to ending the inflation crisis is on Hunter Biden's laptop then? I doubt they're even interested in finding a resolution to inflation since it mostly reflects badly on Biden.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:27
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:True, and I suppose anything the GOP House would pass would be DOA in the Senate anyway. My personal theory is they don't really give a poo poo about anything anymore since they got the Supreme Court locked for basically ever and can just do what they want that way now
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Nov 17, 2022 18:30
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:So the GOP is just giving up all pretense of trying to govern and do things that might actually help the American people, huh? I mean, it's not surprising that they'd take that turn, but you'd think they'd at least want to try to appeal to people outside their lunatic base, considering they just had a fairly lackluster midterm performance. It feels like they've long forgotten why Trump was actually able to win. Yes, the racism and outrageousness and "owning the libs" definitely all played a big part in his ability to dominate the narrative, but that alone doesn't win elections -- it was also the populist message that resonated with the working class. Dems haven't exactly been killing it in that demographic either, but I think we might finally be seeing the limits of a platform based entirely on vague, aimless spite. A lot of Trump voters in 2016 genuinely thought he would turn out to be a kind of average president who said some messed up stuff during the campaign but maybe he would still be able to shake things up in Washington for the better. It wasn't so much an ideological thing. He did need the ideologues, but he also needed the regular people.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:31
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We've all talked about this before, the GOP's platform is DEEPLY unpopular, which is why whenever they get legislative control almost nothing gets done. Sadly, that rarely seems to matter to voters.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:32
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God, another two years of Trump is bad enough, but at least he's got stage presence. These guys are such talentless dull-witted amateurs it's going to be pure low-budget cringe.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:35
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Can't wait for the "what is Pelosi hiding?!?!" Hot takes now that she's stepping aside. Jesus this poo poo is so insufferable. And it won't convince anyone of anything. Everyone that supports these hearings will interpret everything, no matter the reality, to mean "guilty."
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Nov 17, 2022 18:43
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BonoMan posted:Can't wait for the "what is Pelosi hiding?!?!" Hot takes now that she's stepping aside. I feel like "people are trying to kill me and they came close to killing my husband" is a perfectly valid reason to step away from the political spotlight, along with being old as hell.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:50
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Official that Pelosi is stepping down.quote:WASHINGTON (AP) — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she will not seek a leadership position in the new Congress, a pivotal realignment making way for a new generation of leaders after Democrats lost control of the House to Republicans in the midterm elections.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:52
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Youth Decay posted:I feel like "people are trying to kill me and they came close to killing my husband" is a perfectly valid reason to step away from the political spotlight, along with being old as hell. On top of that she also made a promise to progressives whose support she needed 2 years ago that she was going to step down. She would have only needed a majority of her caucus rather than 218 to be minority leader so I guess she could have broken her promise if she wanted to.
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Nov 17, 2022 18:55
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Youth Decay posted:I feel like "people are trying to kill me and they came close to killing my husband" is a perfectly valid reason to step away from the political spotlight, along with being old as hell. No of course it is. I'm talking about hot takes from the right
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Nov 17, 2022 18:55
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https://twitter.com/isaacdovere/status/1593304674643460103?s=46&t=Je8rjT13-hs2B3R7sF5Cow Who do we suppose Jeffries thinks is 1. Hard-left democratic socialist 2. A credible threat or worth addressing in this way? What are the hard left ideas he wouldn’t agree with? What are the policies he thinks are too far left?
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Nov 17, 2022 19:25
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