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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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euphronius posted:I can conceive of a just war but Russia ans Ukraine are not fighting it I can also conceive of dragons and unicorns, doesn't mean that poo poo exists.
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Nov 18, 2022 17:07
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are you criticizing my idea that a just war is possible?
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Nov 18, 2022 17:08
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euphronius posted:are you criticizing my idea that a just war is possible? no Orange Devil posted:I can also conceive of dragons and unicorns, doesn't mean that poo poo exists. yea, non criminal war is technically possible, but hasn't been done since the current laws were written. and even if you achieved non criminal war, in absolute terms it likely wouldnt immiserate populations afflicted by war any less. just dont do war folks speng31b has issued a correction as of 17:21 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 17:12
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Oxford dictionary defines "targeting" and "civilians" as,
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Nov 18, 2022 17:24
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here is a good summary on the legal background https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule1
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Nov 18, 2022 17:28
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speaking of war crimes, this tweet thread provides a (horrifying) compilation of well-documented and verified examples of ukrainian war crimes. big  but the tweet thread itself safely puts everything behind twitter's sensitive content blockers, so it's safe to read as long as you don't click to play any of the embedded videos.(don't use the link with threadreader because it will apparently bypass the sensitive content blocks and show gross thumbnails) https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1593614454834479104 e: for anyone who doesnt want to even read descriptions of this stuff, the tldr; is that the UN human rights report was right when they said "credible reports of summary executions of POWs". for anyone who wants descriptions but no possibility of seeing images of any kind, a spoilered version of just the text of the tweet thread is below. even as just text it's extremely hard to read, about equivalent to the recent UN human rights report about prisoner abuse. The execution of 12-13 Russian POWs in Marinka. This happened sometime in 2022/11. In this video, we can see about a dozen Russian POWs with obvious signs of having been executed. Although this was not verifiable until this morning when we got the first part of the video leading up to this drone footage showing the executed. The pre execution video shows a bunch of Russians surrendering, but at one point we can see one Russian who decided not to surrender which is where the camera cuts on this video below. After they shot down the Russian refusing to surrender, it appears on of UA's own got wounded. The wounded goes by the nickname of "Andriukha". After they neutralized the Russian gunman they decided to take revenge for "Andriukha" and proceeded to execute the Russian POWs. In the aftermath video you can see clearly that most got a gunshot wound to the head or are bleeding from that area, meaning the execution was systematic and not result of some nervous gunner. Two identified perpetrators are: Nazar Mikhailovsky and Arthur Bortnichuck from Kharkov. --- Next up, execution of VDV leaving Kiev. Happened at the end of March when Z troops were leaving Kiev, one VDV unit got lost and came under ambush by the Georgian Legion. In the video, you can see that they tied the Russians hands behind their backs before executing them. Some involved have been ID'd, one of them allegedly killed in Lysychansk but unconfirmed. The day after, the leader of the Georgian Legion (Mamuka) confirmed that they had commited the executions. ID of some of the involved, including confession from Mamuka in video below --- Next up, the execution of Russian POW Peter Vasilievich Yegorchev. As twitter threads are 20 tweet limits, I can't do detailed description on all videos. But this one with hands tied behind his back, gets tortured with a knife in eye before being executed. Censored version The perpetrators are Ruslan Mironyuk and Ruslan Oleinik UA channels have been trying to debunk by claiming that Mironyuk died in 2016 and it's not him but that's false. He is well and alive in Ukraine, people close to him have shown chat messages from his burner accounts on VK --- Next up, the Kraken kneecappings. The title should give you an idea what this is about. I added short version as rest is just POWs in agony. When it was released, many UA supporters tried to debunk it as fake, including a twitter MS paint detective thread that got 10 000 + likes But the leader of Kraken unit, Sergei "chili" Velichko admitted that they did in fact kneecap those POWs. In the video, Chili claims he don't know who recorded it, that's because it was a SBU agent that was recording. Some involved have been put on the Z MVD most wanted list --- Next up. The execution of numerous Russian POWs in Chernigov. There is not much information about this video which only popped up in late July somewhere. Same spiel as in the first video, only signs of execution but no footage beforehand until footage showed up, showing these Russian POWs being very much alive. They were just dragged further away and then got executed. Surprisingly, no one but one girl has been identified as part of the video through her voice, famous neo nazi Vita Zavihura. --- Unfortunately, I am nowhere close to showing all the confessed or recorded war crimes of the Ukrainian army but I am reaching my 20 tweet limit. So down below i'll just drop off some mentions of particularly heinous nature. --- This one was even mentioned in UN report. a UA soldier having beheaded a DPR POW and put the DPR flag in his mouth. I was talking to one of my followers, and he alleged that there was a video of it early in the war but has since vanished. The perpetrators where never ID'd. This one was a trend among UA for a while. Chain Russian POWs to tank obstacles and burn them alive. Saw a few of these but most appear to have been wiped from western search engines. Censored everything but the chain. No perpetrators ID'd as of today. Ukrainian speared this Russian POW, with what exactly is widely debated, and then forced him to crawl while egging him on. Perpetrators not ID'd to this day. --- I could do about 40-50 more individual cases but i'll end it here. To this day, only 2 of these cases have been mentioned by western MSM & UN. No one involved has even been brought in by the Ukrainian government. Those of us who has followed this since 2014, this UA behavior is nothing new, but for new people, here is who your tax money funds. speng31b has issued a correction as of 18:40 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 17:28
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speng31b posted:speaking of war crimes, this tweet thread provides a (horrifying) compilation of well-documented and verified examples of ukrainian war crimes. no thanks
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Nov 18, 2022 17:30
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Zodium posted:no thanks
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Nov 18, 2022 17:37
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this is relatively recent and covers some of the distinctions made above 142. In the view of the Chamber, the war crime of attacking civilians pursuant to article 8(2)(e)(i) of the [1998 ICC] Statute does not presuppose that the civilian population is the sole and exclusive target of the attack. The crime may be perpetrated in any of the two following scenarios: (i) when individual civilians not taking direct part in the hostilities or the civilian population are the sole target of the attack or (ii) when the perpetrator launches the attack with two distinct specific aims: (a) a military objective, within the meaning of articles 51 and 52 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 (“the AP I”); and simultaneously, (b) the civilian population or individual civilians not taking direct part in the hostilities. The latter scenario must be distinguished from situations where, in violation of the principle of proportionality, a disproportionate attack is intentionally launched with the specific aim of targeting a military objective, with the awareness that incidental loss of life or injury to civilians will or may occur as a result of such an attack. In such a case, the targeting of the civilian population is not the aim of the attack but only an incidental consequence thereof. from the link I posted above of you click on supporting documents or whatever it was
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Nov 18, 2022 17:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:Oxford dictionary defines "targeting" and "civilians" as, war needs targeting reviews like ncaa football has
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Nov 18, 2022 17:47
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So if the Russians bomb just enough power generation infrastructure to still allow the Ukrainians a base level of heating to prevent unnecessary civilian deaths but remove all excess capacity from the system would that be a morally justifiable bombing? And if the Ukrainians decide to use that remaining capacity to further the war instead of saving civilian lives would that be a war crime?
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Nov 18, 2022 17:50
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means tested war crimes
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Nov 18, 2022 17:55
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500 good dogs posted:war needs targeting reviews like ncaa football has Rated 4 out of 5 HIMARS
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Nov 18, 2022 17:55
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now post your house
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Nov 18, 2022 17:57
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Imf loan forgiveness for countries that operate concentration camps in disadvantaged areas for 3 years
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Nov 18, 2022 17:57
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Zodium posted:means tested war crimes access to war crimes
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Nov 18, 2022 17:57
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affordable access to war crimes
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Nov 18, 2022 17:57
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Zodium posted:no thanks the tldr; is that the UN human rights report was right when they said "credible reports of summary executions of POWs"
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Nov 18, 2022 17:59
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AMERICA STANDS FOR DEMOCRACY, YOU GOTTA LICK UKRAINES rear end PEOPLE JUST THIS ONCE THIS TIME FOR REAL AMERICA FIGHTS FOR THE GOOD GUYS AND DEMOCRATIC VALUES https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1593500020774420481?s=20&t=3zZewrZT9QgPeLL_Es_bgg
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Nov 18, 2022 18:00
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Al-Saqr posted:AMERICA STANDS FOR DEMOCRACY, YOU GOTTA LICK UKRAINES rear end PEOPLE JUST THIS ONCE THIS TIME FOR REAL AMERICA FIGHTS FOR THE GOOD GUYS AND DEMOCRATIC VALUES I expect that OPEC will suddenly agree to cut production now. For reasons.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:02
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farts misread post
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Nov 18, 2022 18:03
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when the russian ruling class targets the ukrainian working class or its means of survival with industrial weapons of war, it is a crime. when the ukrainian ruling class targets the russian working class, it is also a crime.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:04
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Zodium posted:when the russian ruling class targets the ukrainian working class or its means of survival with industrial weapons of war, it is a crime. when the ukrainian ruling class targets the russian working class, it is also a crime. Lostconfused posted:All war is crime
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Nov 18, 2022 18:05
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it's not a crime if the working class wages war on the bourgeoisie. 
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Nov 18, 2022 18:06
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:Why do you assume the people getting bombed wouldn't want the bombing to stop via negotiations? That sounds pretty loving stupid. its reality firebombing japan to the ground didnt make them surrender and arguably they were gonna surrender before the nukes, due to actual advances on the ground or the threat of them carpet bombed germany and they werent gonna give up (also they bombed britain tons and that didnt work) carpet bombed vietnam harder than ww2 iran and iraq bombing eachothers cities, with iraq literally gassing tons of people, didnt make either side give up. why do you think strategic bombing of ukraine is gonna bring ukraine to the negotiating table ?? OctaMurk has issued a correction as of 18:10 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 18:07
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Zodium posted:it's not a crime if the working class wages war on the bourgeoisie. well thats a revolution not a war
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Nov 18, 2022 18:09
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Lostconfused posted:All war is crime
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Nov 18, 2022 18:10
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speng31b posted:well thats a revolution not a war hmm fair Lostconfused posted:All war is crime
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Nov 18, 2022 18:13
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speng31b posted:speaking of war crimes, this tweet thread provides a (horrifying) compilation of well-documented and verified examples of ukrainian war crimes. Thought I could just read descriptions, but tweets with 18+ content requires an account even for the text, however, there was a ThreadReader link which apparently doesn't obscure anything and I got to see some thumbnails. So, uh, don't do that if you're slightly curious, but not curious enough to want to see somebody impaled on rebar for example.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:18
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crime...a
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Nov 18, 2022 18:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:crime...a whoa
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Nov 18, 2022 18:24
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:Why do you assume the people getting bombed wouldn't want the bombing to stop via negotiations? That sounds pretty loving stupid. -curtis lemay
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Nov 18, 2022 18:25
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OctaMurk posted:its reality I think the major difference is that those other wars were seen as existential and the targets for the bombing was much more indiscriminate. Russia has been targeting infrastructure but it hasn’t been targeting people directly. if my local substation gets blown up that would suck but I would be way less upset at that than I would bombs just randomly falling in my city. I know there are definitely Ukrainians that feel this war is fight or die but is that the the average view of this war from the Ukrainian perspective? i legitimately do not know.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:29
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I think what we maybe getting at is covered in the concept of proportionality Proportionality The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. In other words, the principle of proportionality seeks to limit damage caused by military operations by requiring that the effects of the means and methods of warfare used must not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:31
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using that concept and feeding it back into the other post I had about how attacks on military targets which have disproportionate effects on civilians can still be considered war crimes - you can start to make a case finally on how Ukraine’s attacks on Poland were a war crime
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Nov 18, 2022 18:33
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euphronius posted:I think what we maybe getting at is covered in the concept of proportionality What is the virtue of a proportional response? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AXJRVVgz5aU
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Nov 18, 2022 18:38
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OctaMurk posted:its reality I think that if leaders actually gave civilians a voice in any bombing campaign on whether to end it immediately regardless of terms we would find that people would want the bombing to end. You're watching Goff torture Vigilante and saying it's perfectly reasonable that Peacemaker wants Vigilanties suffering to continue because it helps Peacemakers goals. I'm sorry for the TV analogy. That civilians never have had a say in any of these wars is my point.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:40
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SplitSoul posted:Thought I could just read descriptions, but tweets with 18+ content requires an account even for the text, however, there was a ThreadReader link which apparently doesn't obscure anything and I got to see some thumbnails. So, uh, don't do that if you're slightly curious, but not curious enough to want to see somebody impaled on rebar for example. I added a text-only spoilered version of the tweet thread to my original post.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:41
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:I think that if leaders actually gave civilians a voice in any bombing campaign on whether to end it immediately regardless of terms we would find that people would want the bombing to end. bombing hardens resistance and strengthens people's commitment to not surrendering. because you just killed their mom/brother/friend/polycule/whatever and gave them a reason to give a poo poo about the war ending in a way that punishes the other side
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Nov 18, 2022 18:42
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:I'll be forming a volunteer goon battalion for the liberation of Budjak. Any takers, hopefully someone with a pickup or RV? *raises paw*
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Nov 18, 2022 18:44
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