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Chalks posted:The anti-infantry use for these rockets was clear from the design, but it didn't occur to me that any vehicle caught in the blast isn't just damaged, but literally every single component is comprehensively destroyed. Can't salvage a single thing.
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Nov 18, 2022 13:34
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Incredible “Russian guy comes into work at 8am on Monday” energy from this one.
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Nov 18, 2022 13:45
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Budzilla posted:The designers of the munition probably knew that it would cause damage to soft targets like trucks, radar, etc.... I am really surprised with all the puncture holes in just the 1 truck. You might be surprised about the wide gamut of things tungsten balls flying extremely fast consider "soft". An IFV or APC are decently likely to be holed from above. An actual tank hit by that sort of thing is likely to be mission-killed if not outright destroyed through the loss of optics, engine, guns, fuel tanks, etc.
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Nov 18, 2022 13:46
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Chalks posted:A while ago there were a bunch of posts about new HIMARS munitions that contain thousands of steel balls. Here's a Russian mechanic giving his assessment of how effective these things are: That's absolutely insane. The tires, yeah that makes sense. Fuel tank is just lined sheet metal so that's understandable. But the structural steel frame and engine supports? The loving turbocharger?!
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Nov 18, 2022 14:00
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Tungsten pellets, not steel, I believe. Videos of the aftermath of those have been coming out for a while now, but that one is exceptionally shredded.
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 14:09
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Yeah, those munitions would gently caress up even modern, western MBTs. You could probably get an Abrams running again with a new power pack (engine), swapping out all of the ammo (which probably blew up), and using your auxiliary gunner's sight (which is very well protected), but...yeah. Also you'd be lucky to have no fuel tanks without a single hole. Also your NBC system wouldn't work.
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Nov 18, 2022 14:33
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I remember the first time at my old job (steel smelting) I was asked to shovel tungsten into the furnace. God, the fuckers laughed at me when I tried to pick up the shovel. That poo poo is absurdly dense/heavy.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:20
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https://twitter.com/SporrerWolfgang/status/1593596922488578056?s=20&t=LWQrBlDNoU36fbGKQYYbMQ Capitalism, uh, finds a way.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:29
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USA does not gently caress around with munitions, as Russia is finding out.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:29
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AtomikKrab posted:USA does not gently caress around with munitions, as Russia is finding out. Like I've said before: when you have a military budget equal to the next 20 countries combined, you get some pretty "cool" toys out of it.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:32
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My gut reaction had been that those missiles were going to be like an intense hailstorm made of ball bearings. Surprisingly lethal if exposed but you'd be safe in a vehicle. That video is terrifying. It is like the clouds opened up with antimaterial rifles. It looks like it's fine but as they go into more and more detail the whole thing has been Swiss cheesed.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:32
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/SporrerWolfgang/status/1593596922488578056?s=20&t=LWQrBlDNoU36fbGKQYYbMQ That was a secret? I'm so confused. In the German-thread we even joked about that.
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Nov 18, 2022 16:05
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Bug Squash posted:My gut reaction had been that those missiles were going to be like an intense hailstorm made of ball bearings. Surprisingly lethal if exposed but you'd be safe in a vehicle. It parallels how in WWI, all sides thought machine guns and the new fast-firing field artillery would be great, but totally underestimated their combined value. And then in 1914 multiple armies just died when the new stuff was deployed en masse.
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Nov 18, 2022 16:07
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68 year old dude who's daughter died by being bombed is Kiyv, was sentenced to 2 years prison for insulting Lukashenko https://twitter.com/belamova/status/1593529836135501824?t=vgmLqQPynRVRzAOp_fgXKw&s=19
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Nov 18, 2022 16:20
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What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things?
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Nov 18, 2022 16:26
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Sri.Theo posted:What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things? The warhead would use both, explosives to propel the pellets. Tungsten as it's very dense, yet somewhat affordable and safe to manufacture and handle. E. Beaten Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 16:29
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Sri.Theo posted:What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things? You concentrate the same force into a smaller area; allowing the pellets to puncture stuff. Those guys with the truck will look for 2 weeks for that 'last hole in the engine where they are losing compression' while full explosive power over the whole area of the engine might not have damaged it 10m away from the explosion.
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Nov 18, 2022 16:30
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Sri.Theo posted:What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things? They will have pros and cons, but in general the majority of the damage from a missile strike against an unarmoured target is done by shrapnel. This is shrapnel x 10000, designed to airburst over an extremely wide area. A video of its development and testing was circulating when the US first announced they were being sent to Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5h7BkCj5rI
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Nov 18, 2022 16:33
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Sekenr posted:68 year old dude who's daughter died by being bombed is Kiyv, was sentenced to 2 years prison for insulting Lukashenko According to Zerkalo, he was arrested for posts on Odnoklassniki, so I actually checked his OK account, where he hasn't been online since late September. There are plenty of posts about the war in support of Ukraine, but nothing about his daughter. There are, however, some deleted posts that I suspect are the ones that someone complained about, so the police deleted them, but for some reason decided to keep everything else up. Including this slightly  gif that I would probably consider an insult to Lukashenko, but what do I know?https://i.imgur.com/AvkacJs.mp4
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Nov 18, 2022 16:34
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Chalks posted:A while ago there were a bunch of posts about new HIMARS munitions that contain thousands of steel balls. Here's a Russian mechanic giving his assessment of how effective these things are: Very impressive damage to be sure, that's now a large truck shaped sieve.  Ohh! new thread name. 
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Nov 18, 2022 16:40
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Libluini posted:That was a secret? I'm so confused. In the German-thread we even joked about that. Yeah how else are we going to buy Gas from Russia? Duuuh
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Nov 18, 2022 17:10
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Ran through the last 90 posts, didn't see this. Sorry if double posting. Michael Weiss interviewed a former GRU agent who was detained in Estonia way back when and exchanged to Russia in 2018. Apparently he escaped back to Estonia, the country he was spying in, cause that's better than... staying in Russia? https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1593409122099159040?s=20&t=uuvwdVA29NbOXTevZp1_pw https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1593413212082405376?s=20&t=uuvwdVA29NbOXTevZp1_pw
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Nov 18, 2022 17:12
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Sri.Theo posted:What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things? To add to what others have said, these were designed partly to replace cluster munitions, which spread out lots of small explosive bomblets to have a similar spread-out destructive effect. Cluster bombs were a humanitarian disaster since a sizeable fraction of them wouldn't explode at first and would kill civilians who found them days or years later. People are still dying from finding them in Vietnam. In Afghanistan there was a fuckup where the bomblets were brightly colored to warn off civilians, but that both made kids curious and they also happened to be the same color as food packages being dropped in the same areas. I mean, weapons of all sorts are awful. The weapons you can win a large-scale war with in 2022 are going to be especially horrifying. But the giant tungsten shotgun doesn't carpet the area with explosive booby traps that will endanger people for years to come.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:02
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Warbadger posted:You might be surprised about the wide gamut of things tungsten balls flying extremely fast consider "soft". An IFV or APC are decently likely to be holed from above. An actual tank hit by that sort of thing is likely to be mission-killed if not outright destroyed through the loss of optics, engine, guns, fuel tanks, etc. I wonder if a relatively modern tank (let's be generous and say T-80 and above?) would have enough armor to keep the crew alive even if the tank itself is mission killed or rendered useless. Tungsten is a lot more dense than most metals so armor penetration is going to work differently on tank armor than traditional anti-tank munitions would. On the whole, I'd rather be the one shooting those HIMARS than the ones wondering if my tank armor is going to hold up against 180,000 shotgun pellets from a missile
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Nov 18, 2022 18:04
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Sri.Theo posted:What’s the benefit of tungsten pellets over explosives? Wouldn’t they be just at reflective at ruining things? The strength of an explosion decreases at r³ (iirc, i'm too lazy to check the right exponent, and disregarding anything that constricts expansion). That also means that putting twice as much explosive in doesn't yield twice as much destructive power. What is done instead is to use the explosion to propel shrapnel. The shrapnel flies further and keeps its energy for long distances, even if the amount of shrapnel per m² decreases rapidly the further away from the explosion you get. That's how your standard hand grenade usually operates, that's how artillery shells usually operate. That's why pipe bombs get lined with nails, screws, ball bearings etc. Those ball bearing missiles are really not that special. Think of an upscaled pipe bomb with a rocket and guidance system. Antigravitas fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 18:16
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Menschsein posted:Ran through the last 90 posts, didn't see this. Sorry if double posting. Toots is entirely the last name of someone who would run a spy agency, the pain their name has put them through in life would fuel their career, To have such a man be giddy is no small thing.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:25
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HonorableTB posted:I wonder if a relatively modern tank (let's be generous and say T-80 and above?) Post WWII, roof armor is usually an inch or greater, which should stop the pellets, especially at any long distance. I believe the tungsten alloy used for the submunitions is brittle to improve soft-target effect, but reduced armor penetration, especially at steep impact angles. A close or direct hit may incapacitate the crew of a modern tank by shock wave alone. It is customary to have hatches open while in transit, or even during combat for better visibility. Tanks crews would definitely be affected then.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:29
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Well, it's GPS guided, so you would probably use it on parked stuff, not things in motion?
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Nov 18, 2022 18:41
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Preen Dog posted:Post WWII, roof armor is usually an inch or greater, which should stop the pellets, especially at any long distance. I believe the tungsten alloy used for the submunitions is brittle to improve soft-target effect, but reduced armor penetration, especially at steep impact angles. Tungsten in general can be a bit brittle, but it's dense. I'm not a materials engineer but I'm not sure 1 inch of RHS would stop it, even at shallow angles. I'd be interested to know if newer Abrams have more top armor than the M1A1s and M1A2s I used, but such information is hard to find in OSINT for obvious reasons.
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Nov 18, 2022 18:59
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Ynglaur posted:Tungsten in general can be a bit brittle, but it's dense. I'm not a materials engineer but I'm not sure 1 inch of RHS would stop it, even at shallow angles. I'd be interested to know if newer Abrams have more top armor than the M1A1s and M1A2s I used, but such information is hard to find in OSINT for obvious reasons. War Thunder not sufficiently popular with Americans?
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Nov 18, 2022 19:07
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Nenonen posted:Special tents for special military operation If your just using it to keep the wind off and have a decent thermal bag and pad that's probably fine so long as it doesn't snow enough to simply start crushing it with drifts or buildup. They probably aren't fine.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:08
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Yah, totally. I'm just thinking the distance at which a relatively oblong, dense bullet is still going fast enough to penetrate an inch is also so close that overpressure could be the bigger threat. But I think we can be sure if you have the intel to drop a himars accurately on a tank column many of the vehicles will be placed out of service for various reasons, and the sight and sound of the moment will feature in the crews dreams forever after. E. Depending on source I read there's 160,000-180,000 pellets in a 200lb M30A1 warhead. So each submunition weighs less than a gram. Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 19:16
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Isn't it true that the A10 Gatling gun is scary as hell but wouldn't actually destroy a modern tank? So I wonder how the tungsten ball bearings from a HIMARS round would compare to that.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:27
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Charliegrs posted:Isn't it true that the A10 Gatling gun is scary as hell but wouldn't actually destroy a modern tank? So I wonder how the tungsten ball bearings from a HIMARS round would compare to that. That may be true with modern updated tanks but you dont need to destroy a tank to take it out of the fight. Any mobility or sensor kill means a tank or APC becomes only a target and not a threat.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:38
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Charliegrs posted:Isn't it true that the A10 Gatling gun is scary as hell but wouldn't actually destroy a modern tank? So I wonder how the tungsten ball bearings from a HIMARS round would compare to that. Its not going to pen the front of a tank, but the A10 would be attacking the tank's top/side/rear, where it can most definitely penetrate.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:38
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The A10 has serious trouble even hitting a tank with the gun even if the environment isn't saturated with all types of air defense. It would still do a mission kill if it managed to hit, which it won't, because it would be a cloud of shrapnel impacting terrain on any modern battlefield long before that. Use a missile instead. Those work.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:40
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AtomikKrab posted:Toots is entirely the last name of someone who would run a spy agency, the pain their name has put them through in life would fuel their career, To have such a man be giddy is no small thing. I seriously considered adding “it’s pronounced “totes,”” but “Toots, the jolly spy chief” has a far better ring to it.
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Nov 18, 2022 19:51
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Antigravitas posted:Those ball bearing missiles are really not that special. Think of an upscaled pipe bomb with a rocket and guidance system.
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Nov 18, 2022 20:01
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I had a look and apparently Russia is using flechettes in artillery shells, and that's what Bucha was shelled with. That's another Vietnam era thing…
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Nov 18, 2022 20:16
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Charliegrs posted:Isn't it true that the A10 Gatling gun is scary as hell but wouldn't actually destroy a modern tank? So I wonder how the tungsten ball bearings from a HIMARS round would compare to that. You need to finish your colouring book, good sir.
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