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GreyjoyBastard posted:unpaid volunteer magistrates seems... odd, to my yank mind it does a really good job of making sure that the vast majority of magistrates are middle to upper class class, middle aged busybodies with nowt else to do and the political sensibilities of such folk are about as predictable feature not a bug, if you get sent in front of them hope like hell you can pass as an embarrassed middle class person The Perfect Element posted:complaining to a bunch of people who are, in the main, way worse off you. aye I don't want to rip on the op too much but goddamn I'm raising two disabled kids on less than a quarter of what they don't feel "secure" on and frankly I'm not sure how to handle this concept of financial security as I turn down the loving thermostat again   autumnal picture tax DesperateDan fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 08:43
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I don't think I'd grudge nearly anyone for taking home that much if they are working for a living as long as they realise that they are objectively fairly well off - see the attempts by the tories earlier this year to drive a wedge between well paid train drivers and the rest of the railway staff. It just shouldn't take a six figure salary to buy a semi anywhere.
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Nov 19, 2022 08:44
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I get it, i'd have thought the same of someone in my postiton talking about this stuff a few years back. I'm not suggesting i'm not in a good place compared to others. I'd be happy to pay more tax, if I was doing so with any confidence that it would got to the people who needed support. As it is, it feels like i'm getting taxed heavily to keep me in my place rather than for the public good. It's another wall they put up to stop social mobility, the idea that c100k a year gets you anywhere close to the kind of security and influence the truly wealthy & connected crowd enjoy is a lie. As is them telling you benefit cheats and immigrants are stealing your jobs and stealing your tax money, as they rob us all blind while we're at each others throats.
KM Scorchio fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 08:55
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They levelled you up to Middle Class
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Nov 19, 2022 09:04
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Scientastic posted:Is this like when Brexit and Trump didn’t cause racism, they just emboldened the racists who had previously been shamed into keeping their views silent? The Tories have gone full mask-off, gently caress the poor, gently caress anyone who isn’t already a millionaire, and now the people who earn six figures don’t feel the need to hide any more? So because i'm in the top 5% I can't be angry at the top 0.01% who are very effectively loving us all over?
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Nov 19, 2022 09:11
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You can but you probably also shouldn't bemoan your lot to people who struggle to afford food
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Nov 19, 2022 09:18
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Rarity posted:You can but you probably also shouldn't bemoan your lot to people who struggle to afford food Edit: I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with you personally earning six-figures, I don’t know you, but it is incredibly tone deaf to Kramer into a thread to moan about how your relatively privileged position is really actually very hard indeed, and we’re all in the same boat. We’re not, some people are struggling to the point of having to make choices that no-one should be making in a civilised society. Yes, be angry at the system and the people who are profiting from exploiting labour, but maybe think about how difficult your situation really is before complaining? Double edit: like, you’re talking about mitigating tax impacts when some people are thinking about how to find somewhere warm to hang out because they can’t afford to heat their homes, read the loving room Scientastic fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 09:21
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Scientastic posted:read the loving room
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Nov 19, 2022 09:35
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It is a really good thing that KM Scorchio sees themselves as part of the working class, because there is a difference in security between those with generational wealth and/or millionaires/billionaires, and everyone else. Additionally, the housing market being so awful has really damaged social mobility. But it's also true that a lot of us have worked very hard for a very long time on minimum wage or just above - and often in miserable jobs with punitive managers and horrid working conditions. I don't doubt that KM Scorchio has worked hard, but so do other people, and they haven't had any of the monetary reward that KM Scorchio has. There are also lots of people who are in this thread who have had health issues and cannot work, and not only has the state has not supported them in the way that you should expect in the 21st century in a first world country, but the state has also actively goaded and gaslit and punished people for the crime of being unwell. Over the past 40 years, the message of paying tax for the public good has been eroded and now people see it as them being punished rather than seeing that they're helping others, or the genuine good that can be done for many if people chip in. This has become exponentially worse under the Tories because so many of the state services that everyone was using have been rolled back, so now you can't even properly see where that money is going - and with all of the corruption through the pandemic, it becomes even more galling because you can see that your tax is lining the pockets of the rich, rather than being used to repair pot holes in roads that we all use. But in a properly run society, part of the reward for earning £100k is contributing to a well funded state so that those with less opportunity are afforded a decent quality of life. I understand that it must be surreal to take home ~£65k when on paper you earn so much more, but the pushback here is because £65k after tax is an incredible wage. People on minimum wage take home about a quarter of that - but they still have the same basic bills that you do (rent/mortgage, energy, food etc).
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Nov 19, 2022 09:45
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I think the argument, that the perception of what 'wealthy' looks like has been intentionally set low to encourage division, is valid. But I get that it's not sounding good from where I personally stand so i'll duck out.
KM Scorchio fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 10:07
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If you get taxed more than most of the people in a thread earn then you should probably use your inside complaining voice tbh. I’m just sat here like where’s the catch on this benefits rise? Are they going to raise income support and carers by 10% because I didn’t get an extra £20 under lockdown as legacy benefits didn’t qualify.
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Nov 19, 2022 10:14
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fuctifino posted:Anyone fancy a job? You don't need to understand anything about the law, but there's a backlog of proles to process Weren't barristers on strike for getting too little pay? Now Raab want's people to do their work for free?
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Nov 19, 2022 10:28
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https://twitter.com/simonchilds13/status/1593650956071321604?s=19 Poppy on an SS Cosplay, you gotta respect it
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Nov 19, 2022 10:32
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Magistrates have always been free volunteers. Panels of three, to prevent one crazy voice being overly generous, but it's been a thing forever. Check the Secret Barristers book for stories about how little legal training they get to make such decisions! Barristers strike is still ongoing I think? Seen some cases where judges have just had to throw cases out because no Barristers avaliable.
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Nov 19, 2022 10:55
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That statue looks like a badly designed teether. 
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Nov 19, 2022 11:00
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I'm reminded of my friend at university who would say she had no money when she meant she would have to dip into her savings. She didn't even really understand the concept of having, like, no money. Lovely kid though.
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Nov 19, 2022 11:28
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Does anyone with multiple kids have a view on what you do regarding childcare, especially at the beginning? I'm not going to wade too much into the wealthy or not chat, but we live a good way out from Edinburgh for cheaper house costs but it also means hours away from any family support, etc. We can afford a nursery, but costs per kid are about £1000 a month and my son has to go into it from January when my wife's mat leave finishes. We might be having a second one in the Summer though and were originally thinking that we'd keep my son home when the second one is born to save costs, especially as from summer 2024, they'll both have to go into the nursery. I'm starting to think that might be stupidly naive of us if I just get 2 weeks' leave before going back to work full time though (based on how tricky it was for us to figure out what to do for the first baby). For families with 2 kids about a year apart in age, is there usually a lot of reliance on either family/friends or nurseries during the first year of the second kid?
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Nov 19, 2022 11:41
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HopperUK posted:I'm reminded of my friend at university who would say she had no money when she meant she would have to dip into her savings. She didn't even really understand the concept of having, like, no money. Lovely kid though. Oh I had a friend like that. I was in a gang of three and myself and one of the others were always running out of grant (yes, I know, privilege of grants, guillotine etc) before the end of term. The other would say he had run out too but he lived at home as his parents lived in London and they refused to charge him a penny piece in rent and put his grant in a savings account for him. His expenditure consisted of his season ticket to uni, lunch, and whatever he spent in the old Dark They Were & Golden Eyed sf bookshop that used to be in St Anne's Court back in the dim & distant past where we used to hang out on Saturdays. We're still really good friends 44 years later and I stay with him & his family occasionally if in London.
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Nov 19, 2022 11:49
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Scientastic posted:Edit: I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with you personally earning six-figures, I don’t know you, but it is incredibly tone deaf to Kramer into a thread to moan about how your relatively privileged position is really actually very hard indeed, and we’re all in the same boat. We’re not, some people are struggling to the point of having to make choices that no-one should be making in a civilised society. This thread has said time and time again that the greatest trick of the capital class is convincing people that the middle class exists. In this way they divide the working class against itself; pitting low earners against high earners, when really all people who depend on being rewarded for their labour to survive should be united against the capital class. Then a high earner comes in and agrees, and all the low earners tell him to gently caress off because he's a rich oval office. Amazing. Now I'm not going to argue that coming in and saying you're on £100k pa and are worried about how you can afford the hot tub is a good look when there's people here on £10k (or less) worrying about how they can afford the hot. But the fact remains that if I were earning £100k a year I should be able to afford a loving hot tub without worrying about it. It's a worrying sign that even people we would consider to be extremely well off can't obtain the necessities without feeling priced out of luxuries, because it means the capital class have taken almost everything that the rest of us need to survive. The problem with HENRYs is not that they exist. It's that they don't realise that they never will be rich, not in the way they think of it. It's a good thing when one of them does, and should be encouraged.
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Nov 19, 2022 11:56
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Magistrates have always been free volunteers. Panels of three, to prevent one crazy voice being overly generous, but it's been a thing forever. Check the Secret Barristers book for stories about how little legal training they get to make such decisions! Nah it ended in early October https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/oct/10/barristers-in-england-and-wales-vote-to-end-strike-action.
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Nov 19, 2022 12:11
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I earn seven figures. (If you count the two after the .)
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Nov 19, 2022 12:12
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That always seems like an amazingly privilege blind thing to say, like I sit here as a member of the underclass being forced to listen to melts, who will never suffer the same struggles I do, tell me I have to "be kind". It is ok to say you were working class and are now upper middle class. OK fair dos, you had the brains or the breaks and no one will begrudge you that, but honey, you on 100k a year then you ain't part of the group of people who are sitting round empathising with our own very real struggles. It's the difference between watching your smart meter "as an experiment" and watching your smart meter because you actually need to know how much 4 slices of toast cost to cook.
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Nov 19, 2022 12:12
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learnincurve posted:It is ok to say you were working class and are now upper middle class. OK fair dos, you had the brains or the breaks and no one will begrudge you that, but honey, you on 100k a year then you ain't part of the group of people who are sitting round empathising with our own very real struggles. It's the difference between watching your smart meter "as an experiment" and watching your smart meter because you actually need to know how much 4 slices of toast cost to cook.
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Nov 19, 2022 12:40
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OwlFancier posted:why is it branded qa_tar? The long T thing isnt meant to be pronounced, it’s just a slightly silly stylistic choice meant to evoke Arabic script
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Nov 19, 2022 12:44
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Jedit posted:This thread has said time and time again that the greatest trick of the capital class is convincing people that the middle class exists. In this way they divide the working class against itself; pitting low earners against high earners, when really all people who depend on being rewarded for their labour to survive should be united against the capital class. Then a high earner comes in and agrees, and all the low earners tell him to gently caress off because he's a rich oval office. Amazing. You're absolutely right but the people earning £100k should at least have the basic level of awareness and empathy not to compare the possibility of owning a hot tub to those worrying about the possibility of eating a hot dog. Like, you're very welcome in the labour movement but don't centre your own struggles over the people scraping by to survive.
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Nov 19, 2022 12:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They are working class though, based on their posts. Very well paid, but still working class. lol no The biggest problem this thread has is admitting that it's ok to be middle class and that there is nothing wrong with it. It is a tory lie that middle class = tory, and it has always been this thread's field of rakes. You can be raised working class, and with the average age of this thread, be traumatised by being a child through the miner strikes, but earning more than your parents and moving up in the world via computor touching shouldn't be something to be ashamed of, it is what it is.
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Nov 19, 2022 13:08
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Rarity posted:You're absolutely right but the people earning £100k should at least have the basic level of awareness and empathy not to compare the possibility of owning a hot tub to those worrying about the possibility of eating a hot dog. Like, you're very welcome in the labour movement but don't centre your own struggles over the people scraping by to survive. I wouldn’t say they centred their struggle, they just… talked about it? Like if we actually believe that the working class should not be divided and that people like OP are welcome in the movement then at some point hearing about how capitalism affects them and theirs is going to be part of it. E: there’s also very much the ‘British’ vs Marxist understanding of class which results in us talking at cross points sometimes
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Nov 19, 2022 13:13
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I don’t really think the exchange with KM Scorchio was particularly hostile on either side. I’ve seen this thread drop into gently caress off mode, and by comparison the last page has just been a polite an civil disagreement with the claim that someone on 100k isn’t necessarily wealthy. He was at best gently chided for his privilege in terms of language and I didn’t get the impression anyone thought he wasn’t welcome here.
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Nov 19, 2022 13:21
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But what does he call this?
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Nov 19, 2022 13:24
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Corn on the cob. Jakabite posted:E: there’s also very much the ‘British’ vs Marxist understanding of class which results in us talking at cross points sometimes K and? Does he still fight for higher wages and better working conditions, or does he cross hospitality pickets to have lunch with Blue Labour MPs? There's his measure. Otherwise you end up in the world of low-income landlords and bourgeois tube drivers. You can absolutely be far better or worse off within class boundaries though.
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Nov 19, 2022 13:28
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Rarity posted:You're absolutely right but the people earning £100k should at least have the basic level of awareness and empathy not to compare the possibility of owning a hot tub to those worrying about the possibility of eating a hot dog. Like, you're very welcome in the labour movement but don't centre your own struggles over the people scraping by to survive. Judging by their post history, it might help if they did a bit less coke, too.
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Nov 19, 2022 13:38
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KM Scorchio posted:So because i'm in the top 5% I can't be angry at the top 0.01% who are very effectively loving us all over? Are you that fella off Question Time who was in total denial about how much better off than the vast majority of the people in the country he is? Prole fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 13:40
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Quiz time. What are the answers? https://twitter.com/AvonandsomerRob/status/1593722760953729024
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Nov 19, 2022 13:40
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Nov 19, 2022 13:44
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Yeah no one was being bad or anything, just throwing in my 20p. Have a lovely weekend UKMT buddies
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Nov 19, 2022 13:47
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smellmycheese posted:Quiz time. What are the answers? is it xenophobia?
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Nov 19, 2022 13:59
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Magistrates have been unpaid volunteers for about 800 years now but somehow it still comes as a surprise to people. Much like jury duty, their employer has to let them have time off to go and do some magistratering, which is a whopping 13 days a year. Honestly if you've done any volunteer work then one day per month is kind of a low-to-average level of committment you're expected to make. The lack of formal legal training is supposed to be what allows a more representative group of people to apply, instead of restricting it to those who can afford a law degree, which comes with a whole host of demographic barriers itself. And iIf you think that 3 slightly trained people making a decision under the direction of the legally-trained advisor is a bad way to run lower courts, then wait until you hear about the system of 12 completley untrained people making a decision under the direction of a legally-trained judge in the higher court!
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Nov 19, 2022 14:11
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smellmycheese posted:Quiz time. What are the answers? Tastes like… gammon.
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Nov 19, 2022 14:23
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learnincurve posted:is it xenophobia? I had gammon, piss and chips
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Nov 19, 2022 14:23
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learnincurve posted:it's ok to be middle class Assuming we accept the existence of a middle class, I am about the most firmly middle class it’s possible to be without going to a Steiner school or holidaying in a kibbutz, and I can confirm that middle class != Tory. Literally no-one in my family or extended family would ever consider voting Tory, and I know this because they are all extremely vocal about hating literally everything every Tory stands for, to the point of pontificating after a few drinks about compulsory euthanasia for anyone who ever even thought about voting Tory.
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Nov 19, 2022 14:27
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