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Two Owls posted:Game still has its moments lmao
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Nov 24, 2022 00:42
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Rick posted:There definitely seems to be a way that smart Hogs are able to hook you even with the defensive matrix up They can, if I recall DM doesn't block hook at all, it blocks the shots after the hook. Hog has to lock himself in an animation to hook someone and an attentive Dva is just going to matrix that every single time while throwing missiles in his face. If your team is clever he'll get at the very least forced to gently caress off for a bit.
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Nov 24, 2022 12:56
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verbal enema posted:getting to the point in ranked supp where Moira isnt the end all beat all bandaid healer and im legit psyched to get better at the other supps not named lucio Clearly it's the calling to become a zenyatta main
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Nov 24, 2022 18:32
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People get unreasonably angry when I play zen, but for some reason my seasonal stats aren't showing so i can't check if players are whiny babies or my Zen game is below par. Or both
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Nov 24, 2022 18:45
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Zen is good for the same reason Moira is, because you can sometimes carry bad DPS. DPS players know this so they take it personally. Bad players also just can't cope with anything other than insta-heals on demand
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Nov 24, 2022 18:48
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i just want the missing maps back. map rotation when you have like 10 maps is boring and bad also give a slight delay before people can re-queue for quick play if they leave a match early. I don't want harsh penalties because it's QP, but I've had 4 minute matches where we cycled through 6 different people on the same team.
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Nov 24, 2022 19:42
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Calibanibal posted:Zen is good for the same reason Moira is, because you can sometimes carry bad DPS. DPS players know this so they take it personally. Bad players also just can't cope with anything other than insta-heals on demand They are somewhat different kinds of DPS, though. Moira does mostly trash damage but carries by getting aggressive and confirming kills on people who can't aim. Zen is the opposite a lot of the time and gets long range picks, or puts heavy damage on targets during team fights. I feel like the kind of player who dominates on middling ranked games with Moira is probably going to feed a lot on Zen. He isn't NEARLY as survivable, and gets pretty aim-centric when you have to take a duel. Discord priority can also be tricky to learn, but more often than not, simply having a discord out will help a bunch, especially on tanks.
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Nov 24, 2022 20:20
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Calibanibal posted:Zen is good for the same reason Moira is, because you can sometimes carry bad DPS. DPS players know this so they take it personally. Bad players also just can't cope with anything other than insta-heals on demand It's this. gently caress the haters, Zenyatta is really good, and one of my best characters. His orbs travel at just the right speed, I actually have better luck tagging Pharah with him that most hitscan characters. Volley deletes tanks. His crits are logically the right amount of damage so he doesn't have Kiriko's frustrating bullshit, while still being a legitimate threat to anyone on the map. He has the fourth(?) best melee attack in the game. If you're actually active on the mic, the most helpful thing you can do is call out who is discorded. His ult is still great, both against ults and for saving people near death, but not necessarily near you. Get good with the orbs, and you can get a lot of them, too. Whoever mentioned survivability isn't wrong, but they're also not right. He has fewer escape options. Unless he's willing to blow an ult, Zen's escape is "kill the other guy". Fortunately, he is good at it. As far as general survivability, he is more survivable than most supports because he has mostly shield health. He regenerates much faster than any other support except Lucio, assuming you're not spamming cool down abilities on yourself. (Bap's regen, Moira's gold ball) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ An enormous chunk of players don't even use health kits, play Sombra sometime and watch your healing stat if you don't believe me. Many, many players, even several grades above me, are stupid. I'm bronze right now, but I was platinum in OW1 at one point, and I can tell you, they're the same way up there. Realizing how few people regularly use health kits is why I quit OW1 in the first place. It's soul crushing. They are little helpless babies that are completely reliant on the notion of having a dedicated healer fix their problems. So yeah, a slower rate of healing will piss them off, and Zen doesn't have Lucio's "Heals everyone simultaneously" to make up the difference. Never mind that he's fantastic at keeping everyone topped off. And playing Zenyatta will train you to pay more attention to allied health, because only one person can get the ball, and you're free to go your own way, which stops you from fixating on someone. I became better with other healers after Zenyatta finally started to click for me. To add to that, I don't think a high healing number is necessarily good. If the enemy is dead and not shooting, there is less to heal. Mercy with 15k healing and less than 1k damage is almost certainly making things harder on herself. (Healing with any support can get inflated three ways: fewer health kits picked up, healing damage someone else would regenerate anyhow, and being in a fight that should have ended 20 seconds faster.) I had a Mercy complain about a Winston diving her. She ended the match with 60 total damage. If Mercy dumps the gun into him once after he dives, she will have more than 60 damage. He dives her because she lets him and frequently won't do her drat part to chase him away so he sticks on the team much longer. As frustrating as it is to see an enemy get burst healed, and as much as I know that my team is also doing that same thing to them, I also know that if one of my idiot supports would just dump their gun into my target, we would win the skirmish much earlier. But highly vocal morons will yell at any support who actually does. Supports almost literally can't win. I can at least recognize my gripe is unfair, given all the other gripes supports get that are at odds with it. Ana is the character most shafted by this concept. Ana is capable of really high healing numbers, but between her gun being incredible at confirming kills, and the batshit crazy power of her grenade, she can win a fight essentially by herself but get terrible numbers on both damage and healing because it ended too fast. If she's paired with Lucio, her grenades somehow get even better---but all the shine of those big heals will go to him. Someone in this thread called out that Baptiste can alternate fire his gun and not slow down his healing, and that is absurdly powerful. Baptiste is rapidly becoming my best character, because I can be high on damage and sacrifice very little of my healing. Still can't convince morons to stay back and shoot through my wall, but it is what it is. Somehow, he escapes the Moira curse, and you can play very aggro with him and as long as your healing numbers are good (even though, like Moira, much of this can/will be yourself) no one will bat an eye. Hell, they'll be impressed half the time. He seemingly escapes the stigma all supports face. Somehow floating a 67% win rate with him.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:16
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evilmiera posted:My main problem with the heroes is nothing at all to do with how they play, but how they all feel like soulless shells as characters. Like whoever wrote them either didn't understand how people act or were kept to very harsh limits on what they could express and do so as not to offend anyone, ever. They barely progress the lore and they keep resetting the lore and unlike league of legends the just don't have a ton of characters so you can't just at least find a hero that you just like their baseline personality gimmick. And Blizzard just does worse than fan stuff story wise anyways . Gremlin streamer Dva with actual combat experience was way better than. Oh I'm a newbie and have never seen combat despite fighting a giant omnic and it's minions near daily. And literally no one like Genji/Mercy please please stop trying to push it. Mercy with literally anyone other than the character Mercy mains hate with the fury of a thousand suns. (It's Sylvanas and Nathanlos all over again I swear)
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Nov 24, 2022 23:24
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SirKibbles posted:They barely progress the lore and they keep resetting the lore and unlike league of legends the just don't have a ton of characters so you can't just at least find a hero that you just like their baseline personality gimmick. I mean the league of legends heroes are at least fun and distinctive, despite them just being a bunch of canned voice lines. LoL never really tried presenting a progressing story or a narrative you're supposed to care about back when I was playing it, but Overwatch kinda did. Try, that is. The worst ones though are the ones they try to make humorous. League of Legends heroes can be funny, but every single joke falls so flat in the cinematics of Overwatch that I want to skip it the moment one is attempted.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:38
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Who's melee is better than Zen? Rein doesn't count that's his whole thing obvs
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Nov 24, 2022 23:44
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verbal enema posted:Who's melee is better than Zen? Rein doesn't count that's his whole thing obvs Rein, Brig, and Queen.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:01
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Torb hammer kills are the best. Now that I think about it, Zen needs a kick emoji next to his kick kills.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:03
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Veryslightlymad posted:Rein, Brig, and Queen. Oh yeah lol
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Nov 25, 2022 00:05
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I always forget Torb actually does increased damage. Not sure if that is better or worse, because he has to change to it.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:People get unreasonably angry when I play zen, but for some reason my seasonal stats aren't showing so i can't check if players are whiny babies or my Zen game is below par. I play Wrecking Ball and people leave before the match starts. One guy said "either get off ball or you better start doing better" Another person on the other team told my team that I'm throwing.  He's not very easy to play. I love knocking everyone all over hell and back, and smashing back line players into the ground. People get so distracted trying to kill me, my team has free reign. Although, my team usually isn't very good at cleaning up. In total mayhem it's like playing Batman because his grapple refreshes every like, 2 seconds or so. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 08:42
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:I play Wrecking Ball and people leave before the match starts. One guy said "either get off ball or you better start doing better" If ball's what you play, then that's what you play, keep doing it. People will see him as a throw pick most of the time in 5v5 though because back in ow1 at least you would have one tank to make space for the team while ball set up his roll-outs and engages. In 5v5, the other people on your team are gonna be sitting there jerking off wondering where the hell the tank is, and unless they have the game sense to dive the same targets or initiate when you do, it's gonna be a very bad time. One thing to consider is how ridiculously overtuned the entire tank roster is right now in terms of damage, so even if you roll in as ball and distract 2 supports and a DPS, the other team's tank can essentially solo uncoordinated DPS that are sloppy. If everyone is on the same page, of course it works. Otherwise, it's frustrating to play with a ball tank. Total Mayhem sounds like it would essentially be unplayable with 5 balls vs 5 balls.
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Nov 25, 2022 10:27
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You have to use comms well and have teammates willing to listen to play him impactfully imo. Hes only a throw pick if you or your teammates arent willing to do that but in the latter case its your teammates throwing really
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Nov 25, 2022 11:34
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Lots of players also seem to worry more about your picks than their own gameplay. Just in general. Even in quick play wood league. No tank that can create a shield? We’re doomed and I might as well give up. Meanwhile there’s 10 seconds on the clock before the match even begins.
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Nov 25, 2022 11:52
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Veryslightlymad posted:I'm aware, but I also had an opinion. https://youtu.be/9b0w0PlDBaM You might be on to something. Tl;Dr Blizzard devs want to wait for data to come in to tell them the balance is bad instead of just listening to OW veterans who know that these are bad development decisions before they are even implemented.
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Nov 25, 2022 15:30
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Wrecking ball is probably my worst tank, personally, but I think he has spots where he could excel. Two thirds of Lijiang Tower, for instance. I've noticed he's weirdly good on offense on cart maps. His ult can force the issue and break up a logjam of defenders at the cart itself.
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Nov 25, 2022 15:44
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:https://youtu.be/9b0w0PlDBaM This is the correct way to do things though  Just because they're good at the game doesn't mean they understand balance and design. I've heard a lot of dogshit ideas from veterans. Besides, there's private discord servers where content creators and other high-level folks can chat with blizzard devs and community managers. They interact and get feedback constantly. I don't like some things in OW2 and I don't love the way they're handling some balance decisions but I also don't trust gamers to do or know any better. novaSphere fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 18:04
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You can't take feedback from high level players alone; they're basically playing a different game than the rest of us flatscans. You need hard data points, but if you're going to take word of mouth feedback, it needs to be from all levels of play. Although I guess the phrase on the post was just "veterans", which, hey, technically I am, since I had OW1 since release day. We all know my ideas are poo poo, so there you go.
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Nov 25, 2022 18:53
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:I play Wrecking Ball and people leave before the match starts. One guy said "either get off ball or you better start doing better" Nothing would make me spitefully never change my character, even if I'm being hard countered, more than someone starting the match telling me to switch off of said character.
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Nov 25, 2022 19:04
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novaSphere posted:This is the correct way to do things though I'd have more faith in this if blizzard didn't repeatedly ignore my "hey brig armour is bugged here's my proof" messages for over a loving year.
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Nov 25, 2022 19:27
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Veryslightlymad posted:You can't take feedback from high level players alone; they're basically playing a different game than the rest of us flatscans. You need hard data points, but if you're going to take word of mouth feedback, it needs to be from all levels of play. this is something league figured out after many long years, and their balance paradigm explicitly takes multiple skill levels into account, a process that requires both a vast amount of quantitative data and, occasionally, qualitative data (discussing current game balance with high skill players, gathering anonymized feedback data from less-skilled players, etc.)
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Nov 25, 2022 19:29
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Wrecking Ball is my favourite tank and I was trying to think of ways to buff him. I think for one increase his clip size. There's a few times i'm trying to secure kills and I just need a few more bullets to finish someone. It's fine if it's after a boop and a slam but his gun's a bit too weak otherwise. You cant change his grapple, I wouldn't change his adaptive shields and his ult is really good imo if you time it well but yea it's tricky to justify him right now in a 5 v 5 match.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:41
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I have an absolutely wild idea. Totally crazy. What if, listen here, what if the so-called "Tank" role character had an ability that would allow them to mitigate the damage that would otherwise go towards the rest of the team, instead of being a hit-and-run damage dealer that left their team wide open while they were running away after one pick? I think there's even a special verb that people use that describes that.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:47
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I don't know if ball even needs any buffs, his power level is fine. It's just once again the idea of genre confusion that affects so much stuff in this game. If you want to play him effectively, all you have to really do is focus on engages that both disrupt the enemy tank and also initiate on a non-tank target, while cycling health packs and calling out your targets/engages on voice. Nothing is gonna change the fact that ball must be played around equally as much by one's own team as the enemy team in 5v5, and some people will never be willing to do that.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:15
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Just Chamber posted:Wrecking Ball is my favourite tank and I was trying to think of ways to buff him. I think for one increase his clip size. There's a few times i'm trying to secure kills and I just need a few more bullets to finish someone. It's fine if it's after a boop and a slam but his gun's a bit too weak otherwise. You cant change his grapple, I wouldn't change his adaptive shields and his ult is really good imo if you time it well but yea it's tricky to justify him right now in a 5 v 5 match. Back when I used to know how to play ball, I did a lot of melee to finish off opponents instead of reloading.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:38
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A lot of ball means not interacting with the other tank at all except for maybe rolling through them to set up for another dive. You don't really bother piledriving the other tanks unless they are near a weakened target, and they're really the ones left with cc so most of the time you're actually trying to avoid them. Dive the supports while coordinating with the DPS. A sniper can get an easy shot on the pop up, or a genj can get an easy dash kill after it takes 100 damage etc. You play him a lot like Winston except with a whole lot more aggression and no shield: set up on high ground and piledrive down, or swing-boop into a piledrive. Shield immediately after piledrive, then finish with guns==>melee==>roll.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:45
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dogstile posted:I'd have more faith in this if blizzard didn't repeatedly ignore my "hey brig armour is bugged here's my proof" messages for over a loving year. Yeah that sucked and obviously it's not all perfect - but nothing is. I had assumed Pharah's ult charge bug or Tracer's falloff (for example) were already known but apparently not, which surprised me. Also re: armor bug, I have no idea how complicated OW's systems are but if I know anything about dev (which is not a lot, admittedly), sometimes bugs that seem really simple are really fuckin hard to root out even if the issue is known or there's a testcase for it. I worked on a game that has an exploit involving a fundamental building block of the entire inventory system, which to fully resolve would essentially require a rewrite of the whole thing, which is...not very feasible. In any case the product we currently have as Overwatch 2 was slapped together incredibly quickly so there's a lot of weird janky poo poo I'm hoping they address. I do like that blizz seems to be making more of an effort to talk about these sorts of issues openly at least. The bar is underground though after the near-total comms blackout before OW2 PvP had to get ramped up. novaSphere fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 21:52
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Actually, the one thing I would definitely change about ball is that transforming from ball to crab interrupts his reload. Normally you want to burn burn your timers and then shoot with guns until grapple is ready again so that you can reload in ball form. If you leave ball before the reload finishes, it starts all over again. That seems very stupid.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:53
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Cpt_Obvious posted:A lot of ball means not interacting with the other tank at all except for maybe rolling through them to set up for another dive. You don't really bother piledriving the other tanks unless they are near a weakened target, and they're really the ones left with cc so most of the time you're actually trying to avoid them. Dive the supports while coordinating with the DPS. A sniper can get an easy shot on the pop up, or a genj can get an easy dash kill after it takes 100 damage etc. You play him a lot like Winston except with a whole lot more aggression and no shield: set up on high ground and piledrive down, or swing-boop into a piledrive. Shield immediately after piledrive, then finish with guns==>melee==>roll. Exactly, you want to roll through the other tank and drive a support or DPS in a bad spot. Your team needs to be ready to engage when the roll is going to come through so they can use the disruption to position correctly and focus either the drive target or another vulnerable one. You could be setting up the cleanest engages ever, if you just have a widow or ashe in the back not taking the right angles and soldier shooting the enemy tank from low ground, it isn't going to work out very well.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:55
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novaSphere posted:Also re: armor bug, I have no idea how complicated OW's systems are but if I know anything about dev (which is not a lot, admittedly), sometimes bugs that seem really simple are really fuckin hard to root out even if the issue is known or there's a testcase for it. I worked on a game that has an exploit involving a fundamental building block of the entire inventory system, which to fully resolve would essentially require a rewrite of the whole thing, which is...not very feasible. yeah, if the cause of the interaction is something deeply ingrained in the rest of the game, like the order in which defenses are checked before final damage is calculated, then there's no dev on the planet that'll be willing to touch it with a ten foot pole for fear of how much it could gently caress with the rest of the game league has this pretty infamous knockup glitch that's been there since season 1, and i'm absolutely 100% confident that the devs have done repros and figured out the cause of it and then decided that trying to completely redo how knockup velocity is calculated is categorically Not Worth
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Nov 25, 2022 21:59
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novaSphere posted:Yeah that sucked and obviously it's not all perfect - but nothing is. I had assumed Pharah's ult charge bug or Tracer's falloff (for example) were already known but apparently not, which surprised me. The bigger issue is that almost zero feedback is apparently making it through to the OW team, even the feedback they were deliberately soliciting and bringing pros in specifically to give. This was one of the defining issues with OW1 and people are extremely sensitive to seeing it repeat in OW2 for what should be obvious reasons. It's a particularly glaring issue with how one dimensional the high level meta is right now, which notably killed interest in the game once before. Mostly it's just perplexing that they still are fighting their own balance more than any other single issue with the game, especially after they promised repeatedly during the leadup to OW2s launch that they'd be more responsive with balance. E:  balance being absolutely horrible for months and months and months at a time in OW1 did so much damage to the game Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 22:05
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Also the specific problem was with brig armour, which was actually different from normal armour. Code wise, it wouldn't make sense that changing brig specific things would gently caress armour more than it currently was Or they coulda boxed the character and tinkered
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Nov 25, 2022 22:15
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Actually, the one thing I would definitely change about ball is that transforming from ball to crab interrupts his reload. Normally you want to burn burn your timers and then shoot with guns until grapple is ready again so that you can reload in ball form. If you leave ball before the reload finishes, it starts all over again. That seems very stupid. 100% agree. This is easily the most frustrating part of playing the character. Slow reloads are one of Roadhog's banes, too, but that feels like the player/me making a mistake. With Wrecking Ball, it just feels like the game is fighting me.
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Nov 25, 2022 22:19
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give Ball some minor damage dealing stuff in ball mode. give Ball morphball bombs.
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Nov 25, 2022 22:47
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Give Ball a Sonic Spindash
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Nov 25, 2022 23:04
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