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Wikipedia already updated the AS-15 KENT page with an article from The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/26/russia-firing-ageing-cruise-missiles-because-stocks-are-depleted-mod-suggests The Guardian posted:An intelligence update from the British MoD on Saturday said the desperate improvisation by the Russian president’s struggling forces are “unlikely to achieve reliable effects”.
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Nov 26, 2022 16:33
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killer_robot posted:Wiki says these things can be armed with conventional warheads and they fired a few off during the Syrian war. MoD claims that there was no warhead on the missile. From the Wiki page it sounds like only some of the variants can be armed with conventional warheads.
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Nov 26, 2022 16:36
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If an empty missile was shot down, isn't that by definition achieving the effects they want? The terror of having missiles fly over your cities + the wasted resources of shooting down empty missiles / possibly missing armed missiles in the process
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Nov 26, 2022 16:37
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Decoys burning up Ukrainian anti-missile defense and raining down on civilian populations can be very effective. The question is what do they use after they used up all of these missiles?
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Nov 26, 2022 16:44
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To make a silly fantasy wargame analogy, this is like running out of boulders for your catapults, and having your... I dunno.... say ogres, pick up the catapults and throw them at the other side. That might cause a lot of damage, but then what?
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Nov 26, 2022 16:48
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TheRat posted:If an empty missile was shot down, isn't that by definition achieving the effects they want? The terror of having missiles fly over your cities + the wasted resources of shooting down empty missiles / possibly missing armed missiles in the process I think it would be even more effective to only shoot missiles with actual warheads on them because you have no need of rationing them.
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Nov 26, 2022 16:50
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Quixzlizx posted:I think it would be even more effective to only shoot missiles with actual warheads on them because you have no need of rationing them. The VKS and Russia’s long range fires have been poorly used and targeted, but aerial decoys are a common thing used by the most modern militaries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-141_TALD https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-160_MALD https://www.elbitsystems-uk.com/what-we-do/air-space/self-protection/counter-measures/atald.pdf
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Nov 26, 2022 16:53
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Rigel posted:To make a silly fantasy wargame analogy, this is like running out of boulders for your catapults, and having your... I dunno.... say ogres, pick up the catapults and throw them at the other side. That might cause a lot of damage, but then what? It's more like being faced with a scenario where artillery cannot be used and instead of retraining those crews for something useful, you march them out in front to soak up arrows. Well yeah, arrows are expensive and limited in number, and retraining takes time, so I guess it makes sense if you have to win within fewer turns than it takes to retrain the artillery crews. And it also makes sense if you have a bajillion artillery crews and you've realized that they will never be relevant. Russia has far more nuclear missiles than they would ever need, and getting rid off of some of them is probably beneficial in the longer run. Having a lot of them is expensive and doesn't really give that much additional deterrence. It would be more efficient to make sure they're fitted with conventional warheads, but considering just how effective Ukrainian AA has become and the low accuracy of these missiles (nukes don't really need to be fully on target), maybe it's not worth wasting the cost and effort for a small chance of a hit. But despite this being quite a rational thing to do (even if the infrastructure bombing strategy is stupid and evil), it does provide yet another indication that Russia is at a point where they're throwing everything they can possibly scrounge up at Ukraine, and thus points at Russian capabilities steadily declining.
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Nov 26, 2022 17:03
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Rigel posted:To make a silly fantasy wargame analogy, this is like running out of boulders for your catapults, and having your... I dunno.... say ogres, pick up the catapults and throw them at the other side. That might cause a lot of damage, but then what? I think this analogy only works if Russia flies its bombers devoid of weapons over Ukraine and then they get shot down. So no…
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Nov 26, 2022 17:13
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mlmp08 posted:I think this analogy only works if Russia flies its bombers devoid of weapons over Ukraine and then they get shot down. So no… not yet
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Nov 26, 2022 17:58
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Excuse me? Oh I meant famine is back BABY it's good again, as in awouuu wolf howl. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2022 22:31
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slurm posted:Oh I meant famine is back BABY it's good again, as in awouuu wolf howl. Just to confirm, you're cheering for a famine?
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Nov 26, 2022 22:59
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mlmp08 posted:The VKS and Russia’s long range fires have been poorly used and targeted, but aerial decoys are a common thing used by the most modern militaries. I'm guessing most militaries don't "decommision" nuclear cruise missiles and re-employ them as decoy missiles.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:58
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Quixzlizx posted:I'm guessing most militaries don't "decommision" nuclear cruise missiles and re-employ them as decoy missiles. It would be significantly more dangerous to sling teslas with a catapult towards Ukraine. Humor aside, I guess munitions are running low? I mean excusing using critical missiles for kinetic energy opens a lot of "why?" questions even now.
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Nov 27, 2022 04:18
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Quixzlizx posted:I'm guessing most militaries don't "decommision" nuclear cruise missiles and re-employ them as decoy missiles. Not really. The US has done so to create target/test missiles and aircraft before, but not for use over other nations. notwithoutmyanus posted:Humor aside, I guess munitions are running low? I mean excusing using critical missiles for kinetic energy opens a lot of "why?" questions even now. AS-15s aren't really critical... Maybe they're available and make an OK decoy? But the AS-15 is obsolete as a part of Russia's nuclear triad.
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Nov 27, 2022 04:22
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https://twitter.com/Jack_Watling/status/1596698941852033025?t=b1XN52lQwNrqyrXlI0aRmQ&s=19 This is a good thread on what's to be expected in Winter, with a few more details than the usual.
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Nov 27, 2022 05:43
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Maybe Russia is firing cruise missiles that would normally have a nuclear warhead (now re purposed with a dummy warhead) for the purpose of using up Ukrainian anti air missiles. Like I don't think Ukraine has very sizeable numbers of any kind of AA system other than S300s and I think for those they have no way to build more and very few countries have any to give away. And they only have a very limited amount of AA systems supplied by the west. If Russia can wittle away at Ukraines AA missiles enough then they can really start using their airforce and go all Aleppo on the whole country.
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Nov 27, 2022 07:35
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There are a lot of s300s out there, it's one of the most widely produced and sold large surface-to-air missiles of the last 50 years. Also I think people are reading too much into 'nuclear capable,' which is a terms that describes the vast majority of larger missiles made by, hell, most nuclear powers for the last half of a century.
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 07:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:There are a lot of s300s out there, it's one of the most widely produced and sold large surface-to-air missiles of the last 50 years. Also I think people are reading too much into 'nuclear capable,' which is a terms that describes the vast majority of larger missiles made by, hell, most nuclear powers for the last half of a century. I'm just going off what Wikipedia says, but it really doesn't seem like there are many places Ukraine can get more S300 missiles from. Slovakia donated the one system they had. All the other countries that have S300s are either allies of Russia or just unlikely to donate. So I don't know how many actual missiles Ukraine had at the start of the war, but chances are Russia has more cruise missiles.
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Nov 27, 2022 08:11
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Quixzlizx posted:I'm guessing most militaries don't "decommision" nuclear cruise missiles and re-employ them as decoy missiles. Being able to turn a nuclear cruise missile into a conventional cruise missile is a pretty normal thing. Ideally they're using them with conventional warheads, but maybe the ones they're using are too unreliable/old/inaccurate to justify putting the warheads on them. Using end of life cruise missiles like that to help overwhelm defenses and waste interceptor missiles is pretty reasonable.
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Nov 27, 2022 08:30
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Excuse me? slurm posted:Oh I meant famine is back BABY it's good again, as in awouuu wolf howl. TZer0 posted:Just to confirm, you're cheering for a famine? For anyone confused, slurm was making an ill-advised reference to a Dril tweet. Probably should have explained and moved on.
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Nov 27, 2022 09:00
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:For anyone confused, slurm was making an ill-advised reference to a Dril tweet. Probably should have explained and moved on. Considering the history of their posts, that would’ve not changed the outcome. In general, I highly recommend not investing into making unobvious references in this thread.
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Nov 27, 2022 12:33
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:For anyone confused, slurm was making an ill-advised reference to a Dril tweet. Probably should have explained and moved on. .... November 26th is the Holodomor remembrance day.
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Nov 27, 2022 14:38
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/Jack_Watling/status/1596698941852033025?t=b1XN52lQwNrqyrXlI0aRmQ&s=19 'don't get cold and wet in the middle of war during winter' is obvious at first glance but it's interesting to see how it would actually affect soldiers directly. I used to do outdoor activities a lot, and one of the worst feelings you can get is being wet and cold with no way back or out. It absolutely sucks the energy & motivation out of you, and you can't just be a soldier man & tough it out. It has a real effect on you
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Nov 27, 2022 15:45
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I imagine frostbite claiming fingers and toes also has a bit of an impact on combat effectiveness.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:33
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Conspiracy theories about Makey's possible assassination are multiplying. He was supposed to speak at OSCE foreign ministers conference in Warsaw (where Lavrov wasn't invited) 1-2 december, and now everyone's wondering what was he going to say
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Nov 27, 2022 18:19
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Sekenr posted:Conspiracy theories about Makey's possible assassination are multiplying. He was supposed to speak at OSCE foreign ministers conference in Warsaw (where Lavrov wasn't invited) 1-2 december, and now everyone's wondering what was he going to say Maybe he was just going to defect?
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Nov 27, 2022 21:17
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Maybe he simply wasn’t assassinated.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:31
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Maybe it was the vaccines. yes, I'm joking (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 27, 2022 21:33
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Maybe he simply wasn’t assassinated. Big maybe considering the regularity that Russia does a murder on “undesirables”.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:19
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tehinternet posted:Big maybe considering the regularity that Russia does a murder on “undesirables”. Belarus is a different country, and the guy in question had no power. While I’m sure that won’t deter people creating more and more elaborate theories about his death, I’d like people to refrain from salivating them in this thread until further information is made available.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:27
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Belarus is a different country does nobody respect the Union Sta--okay, fine, nobody does the late 2010s sorta-kinda opening of Belarus to the west wasn't nothing (hell yeah 30-day visa-free entry) and he played a part in it, but there wasn't much reason to assassinate him now, since that hasn't really been a priority for a while, for reasons https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1596923089144532992
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Nov 27, 2022 22:38
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Makei died just after meeting a papal envoy, I wouldn't put it past Opus Dei that this was their hit to spread the influence of Catholicism. They already have Poland and Lithuania bagged, Belarus and Latvia will be next! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 27, 2022 22:51
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Nenonen posted:Makei died just after meeting a papal envoy, I wouldn't put it past Opus Dei that this was their hit to spread the influence of Catholicism. They already have Poland and Lithuania bagged, Belarus and Latvia will be next! Nuncio expansionism
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Nov 27, 2022 23:10
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Belarus is a different country, and the guy in question had no power. While I’m sure that won’t deter people creating more and more elaborate theories about his death, I’d like people to refrain from salivating them in this thread until further information is made available. I've come to the conclusion that this thread really loves a good conspiracy theory. The more far out, the better. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 27, 2022 23:16
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The guy was in his 60s, it’s not like it’s improbable that he could have just croaked.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:28
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This is new afaik https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...ces-2022-11-28/
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Nov 28, 2022 09:40
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Considering a proposition to build something to deliver in spring 2023 is quite far off, there are tons of things that can change until then. As it stands now it's a "thought and a prayer". However some parts of the article sound very fearmongery, uncharacteristic for Reuters. I doubt that the american arms stocks are "shrinking" significantly., they still got poo poo to spare.
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Nov 28, 2022 10:02
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TheRat posted:If an empty missile was shot down, isn't that by definition achieving the effects they want? The terror of having missiles fly over your cities + the wasted resources of shooting down empty missiles / possibly missing armed missiles in the process This might also be a test to see if the missile couldn't get past the anti-air defece (of course it couldn't).
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Nov 28, 2022 10:04
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https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1597098667206664194?t=03RQFiLN0V9HrDFdy5ge-g&s=19 If you want to do some light reading on previous experiences with targeting national power grids.
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Nov 28, 2022 10:38
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