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Should I step down as head of twitter This poll is closed. |
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Dynastocles posted:I know this thread agrees the push to "write more CODEEE" is dumb, but can someone explain to me why it's dumb? I get the impression that writing code isn't like mining coal where more doing = more profit which is what Elon seems to think. Because you write code to solve a problem, not just writing code for the sake of writing code. This is also part of why Musk's measure of performance, firing those with the least amount of committed lines of code, is also dumb: You don't write long lines of code if short amounts will solve the problem better. Musk demanding engineers just write code for no real project or program implies he doesn't actually know what they need to achieve. Its demanding busywork. He's basically pulling a 'you got time to lean, you got time to clean' which doesn't translate well to coding or engineering in general.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:38
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What is the code even doing? What is it supposed to do? Is it for projects or new features? Or is it just him ordering them to write lines of code because programmers should write code?
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Nov 29, 2022 16:39
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Instead of $8, I'm paying Elon in code.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:39
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EVERYWHERE 
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MikeJF posted:Everyone shipping code rapidly sounds like the best possible way to destroy all the vaunted and hard-won reliability that's been keeping it going lately. If you ship code fast enough it is in a state of constant ship and therefore cannot transition into a down state! it's frankly brilliant
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Nov 29, 2022 16:40
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TulliusCicero posted:What is the code even doing? What is it supposed to do? Is it for projects or new features? Or is it just him ordering them to write lines of code because programmers should write code? Yes.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:40
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So how much of the company is actual software engineers/coders vs advertising, PR, finance, HR, learning & dev, business outreach/partnering, and infrastructure?
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Nov 29, 2022 16:40
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TulliusCicero posted:What is the code even doing? What is it supposed to do? Is it for projects or new features? Or is it just him ordering them to write lines of code because programmers should write code? yes, lmao Philthy posted:So how much of the company is actual software engineers/coders vs advertising, PR, finance, HR, business outreach and partnering, and infrastructure? pretty sure at this point it's 99% engineers and coders
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Nov 29, 2022 16:41
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TulliusCicero posted:What is the code even doing? What is it supposed to do? Is it for projects or new features? Or is it just him ordering them to write lines of code because programmers should write code? Exactly. You define what the code needs to do before you write it, either through user stories or a project stated goal.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:41
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Zil posted:If you are constantly removing the bottom 10% of your workforce, doesn't that eventually leave you with no one? Zeno's CEO
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Nov 29, 2022 16:41
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It's like asking teachers to write new multi page lesson plans every day and send it to the administrator: it just makes people loving hate you for giving them busy work that gets in the way of their actual job.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:41
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TulliusCicero posted:It's like asking teachers to write new lesson plans every day and send it to the administrator: it just makes people loving hate you for giving them busy work that gets in the way of their actual job. especially if your job is dependent on bulk code, that just means you're going to be forced to write inefficient, long-winded, lovely, broken stuff on purpose as fast as possible to keep your job then it's gonna get pushed to a live server at the end of the week
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Nov 29, 2022 16:43
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Or in the case of something massive, you spend a long time analysing then rewrite a few key lines of code to make it do something slightly better/safer/cheaper.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:43
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explosivo posted:"Elon, look at me and my bedside table! I drink coke too! See! Elon? I have guns too Elon!" We have the answer to "what would the cult look like if Trump were actually rich?" and the answer is "basically unchanged"
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Nov 29, 2022 16:43
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Rigel posted:Honestly, I'm not as concerned about COVID misinformation anymore, we've now reached the car seatbelt stage of that problem. "I'm not wearing that drat seatbelt, (stupid and wrong) studies show if you are rolling over you probably want to be thrown out anyway! And what if it catches fire and I can't get out in time?" We've been through this - the majority of people don't spend their time glued to the internet seeking reliable sources, people mostly get their info from friends, facebook or twitter, and maybe if their government does the bare minimum (almost no governments did lol) Not doing the bare minimum moderation and letting LEE LASIK run wild fucks everything up for you and me (and them, but who cares) https://twitter.com/leelasik https://twitter.com/leelasik/status/1597020680087748609
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Nov 29, 2022 16:43
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Zil posted:If you are constantly removing the bottom 10% of your workforce, doesn't that eventually leave you with no one? I just feel bad for the last software engineer left, losing 10% of their body each day while still having to deliver the code for Elon
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Nov 29, 2022 16:44
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MrQwerty posted:especially if your job is dependent on bulk code, that just means you're going to be forced to write inefficient, long-winded, lovely, broken stuff on purpose to keep your job Which is ironic because most of the people who reviewed any code Musk wrote previously emphasized that he was a poor, inefficient coder who tended to use a lot of code where he didn't need to actually write that much. Its a reflection of his lack of understanding. And that's also beside the point; He's trying to solve social/business' issues with programming that don't need it.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:44
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Stacks of Code, Piled High Elon is the Grasshopper and the ants need to bring him code for the winter
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Nov 29, 2022 16:45
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Rigel posted:Honestly, I'm not as concerned about COVID misinformation anymore, we've now reached the car seatbelt stage of that problem. "I'm not wearing that drat seatbelt, (stupid and wrong) studies show if you are rolling over you probably want to be thrown out anyway! And what if it catches fire and I can't get out in time?" Ironically, this is a very real and legitimate problem in Teslas lol
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Nov 29, 2022 16:45
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CommieGIR posted:Which is ironic because most of the people who reviewed any code Musk wrote previously emphasized that he was a poor, inefficient coder who tended to use a lot of code where he didn't need to actually write that much. I am not a coder but I've read his BASIC program as a child BASIC programmer/person who went to engineering school for CS before deciding to be an historian, and it is not good. He's permanently in the startup mindset. He's a shithead who spent the last 30 years living in a cloud of PR and believed all the lies he paid other people to write about him.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:46
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Dynastocles posted:I know this thread agrees the push to "write more CODEEE" is dumb, but can someone explain to me why it's dumb? I get the impression that writing code isn't like mining coal where more doing = more profit which is what Elon seems to think. it's just not how good software is written . some of the worst code I've ever seen was thousands of lines of bulked out nested if-then statements for some poo poo that should've taken like 40 lines max. if anything goes wrong in that tangled mess good luck finding it because there's no error catching.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:48
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And a lot of programmer/engineer work on a social media platform isn't new features shown to the public. It's stuff like researching how spammers beat your spam filters, determining how to improve them, and then code that solution. Or writing backend UIs to improve efficiency of moderators. Or improving API stability and reliability. None of that is sexy, but it is essential. But this guy is all about new public facing features that will mess with all the foundational code in unforeseen ways. Edit: And all that unsexy backend related maintenance won't be scored high in his "code review". Which is probably more like counting LOC + feature review.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:54
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Zil posted:If you are constantly removing the bottom 10% of your workforce, doesn't that eventually leave you with no one? I think that’s the point. He’s knocking down the fence before understanding why it was put up because he had 90s brain and doesn’t see why more than a team of ten would be needed for a simple website.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:57
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TulliusCicero posted:I'm glad this guy is speed running the death of Twitter; makes things way easier than if he just slowly but surely ramped up the idiocy. COVID is inconveniently still killing and maiming people across the political spectrum in the US as a matter of fact! I'm particularly sensitive about it ATM bc a friend's aunt recently died of COVID (yes, vaxxed and boosted and all) and there's a whole lot of soulless assholes who just reflexively assume people who die of COVID were antivaxxers who deserved it actually, especially since she was quite active and in her early 50s and didn't have any obvious health issues. Also, Twitter is not solely an American website and is used in countries who have far lower vaccination rates for reasons far more related to vaccine and technology hoarding than their individual political ideologies
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Nov 29, 2022 17:00
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Plant MONSTER. posted:This is a reply in this tweet and I don't know why I find it as funny as I do Can't own the libs in an electric car!
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Nov 29, 2022 17:02
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I'm going to put my Chevy Malibu on craigslist as a gas-powered Tesla
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Nov 29, 2022 17:03
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Serious_Cyclone posted:I'm going to put my Chevy Malibu on craigslist as a gas-powered Tesla once an autopiloted Tesla totals my '99 Ranger I'm gonna put it up as a Cybertuck, thanks for the idea
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Nov 29, 2022 17:04
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Zil posted:If you are constantly removing the bottom 10% of your workforce, doesn't that eventually leave you with no one? Congratulations, you've demonstrated approx 1000% more foresight than the methed up Boer
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Nov 29, 2022 17:05
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Serious_Cyclone posted:I'm going to put my Chevy Malibu on craigslist as a gas-powered Tesla At SEMA there was a Tesla converted to internal combustion. The drop floor in the back cargo area had a fuel cell in it.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:05
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waffle iron posted:And a lot of programmer/engineer work on a social media platform isn't new features shown to the public. It's stuff like researching how spammers beat your spam filters, determining how to improve them, and then code that solution. Or writing backend UIs to improve efficiency of moderators. Or improving API stability and reliability. None of that is sexy, but it is essential. Yup, and it goes back to the 'coding for the sake of writing code' and why its bad: You write code to solve a problem, and a lot of coding problems are not even user features, but infrastructure, middle/backend supporting code and refactoring of legacy/old code. You don't just....tell an engineer to write code without a goal/project/story in mind to solve.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:05
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i think the subtext with the code fragments is "bring me new products that will make money".
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Nov 29, 2022 17:07
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Elon has his laundry list for Blue etc. that all need substantial work already so I don't think asking for big loads of code all over his face is a matter of pure busywork. Weekly publishing of muchly voluminous code is just a pure recipe for disaster if you do aren't overstaffed with the literal best in the business. There's ways to do that but you need to mitigate the risk with among other things a huge support staff of people who aren't coding because they are busy making sure the coders in Team A don't completely bring down the application features from Team B while making sure there isn't a duplication of effort with Team C who has a similar but vague demand from a product manager. Meanwhile a bunch of gearheads can't write code because they are busy singing the server hymns to the on premise servers to drive away the bit rot demons and ensure the air conditioning keeps running. While a team of lawyers make sure you aren't making extremely illegal data management schemes and a bunch of nerds figure out how to test everything on a weekly basis that may involve script that could appear like code to a manager but with a whole lot of their own server hymns singing.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:12
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The remainder will be people who wrote a script to write long swaths of code which look impressive but do nothing.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:13
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zedprime posted:Weekly publishing of muchly voluminous code is just a pure recipe for disaster if you do aren't overstaffed with the literal best in the business. There's ways to do that but you need to mitigate the risk with among other things a huge support staff of people who aren't coding because they are busy making sure the coders in Team A don't completely bring down the application features from Team B while making sure there isn't a duplication of effort with Team C who has a similar but vague demand from a product manager. Meanwhile a bunch of gearheads can't write code because they are busy singing the server hymns to the on premise servers to drive away the bit rot demons and ensure the air conditioning keeps running. While a team of lawyers make sure you aren't making extremely illegal data management schemes and a bunch of nerds figure out how to test everything on a weekly basis that may involve script that could appear like code to a manager but with a whole lot of their own server hymns singing. That sounds like this website that I remember hearing about a lot
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Nov 29, 2022 17:14
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zedprime posted:Elon has his laundry list for Blue etc. that all need substantial work already so I don't think asking for big loads of code all over his face is a matter of pure busywork. Elon has a long history of being absolutely abysmal at business' and feature planning, its entirely possible he is just expecting people to code because that's their job and not to meet an actual goal, and that's even what some engineers who have left twitter have reported.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:15
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DeeplyConcerned posted:The three musky fears Three musky tears *cry laugh emoji*
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Nov 29, 2022 17:15
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I dunno enough about either to know how apt it is, and I'll throw it out there anyway. saying "fix the problem with more code" is sort of like saying you should fix a painting by adding just buckets of more paint? like the addition of more does not mean it's improving. it's a process of deciding where and how much you want to use to achieve the look you are going for. musk is also kind of falling for this with his posting. he just keeps posting more, going for volume I guess, without regard for the quality of said posts.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:15
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The Stroker Ace posted:What is the point of caffeine-free Diet Coke? THE TASTE?
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Nov 29, 2022 17:16
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If he really wants features to sell to users, that's a user r&d and marketing problem. Engineers shouldn't be touching anything 'til they know what they're making and a user interface design team have given them an example of what it could look like. Software engineers are fundamentally incapable of doing GUI work.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:17
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goatface posted:Software engineers are fundamentally incapable of doing GUI work. See below
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Nov 29, 2022 17:18
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goatface posted:If he really wants features to sell to users, that's a user r&d and marketing problem. Engineers shouldn't be touching anything 'til they know what they're making and a user interface design team have given them an example of what it could look like. Exactly. Buisiness/Marketing needs to be designing products to sell and for the engineers to build. Musk is basically throwing out demands at his whim and its insanity. goatface posted:Software engineers are fundamentally incapable of doing GUI work. Yup. You usually hire actual UI/UX people who handle this who understand how to create a user friendly product.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:21
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