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SettingSun posted:PD is the bane of missiles so there needs to be a weapon type that is anti PD. Something like the space equivalent of flechettes or other very high rate of fire weaponry expressly designed to overwhelm it. Kaza42 posted:Isn't that just lasers? Lasers can't be shot down with pd Ideally I'd like to see a mix of weapons systems with different counters. IE Missiles can't be dodged and armor doesn't do much, but are easy to shoot down, Lasers can't be shot down or dodges but are stopped by armor, etc. Right now we're missing a "best counter is dodging" weapon (since projectiles are currently pretty easy to shoot down as well), and something like a grapeshot launcher/sandcaster might work well for that. At the same time I admit there are issues with that like it being very limiting for large ships and pretty micromanage-y for large fleets until they improve autoresolve. Though I have to admit that "lasers to degrade point defense and then hit with the heavies" idea sounds pretty awesome.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:59
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There's no reason why missiles should be limited to 4 gs of acceleration. Them being as slow as they are ingame is a major reason why the point defense can work.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:38
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habeasdorkus posted:There's no reason why missiles should be limited to 4 gs of acceleration. Them being as slow as they are ingame is a major reason why the point defense can work. its really this if we could do 20 gs in atmosphere sixty years ago we can do better than iirc 5.5 gs for a missile that doesn't have to worry about air resistance multistage missiles with a relatively sedate few gs for getting into position and then a sprint phase once within an interception window, or project excalibur style missile powered lasers would also be means to defeat pd that would be cool to see excalibur's a bit out there but a whole lot less out there than plasma weapons and they were fine with those atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Nov 28, 2022 |
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Nov 28, 2022 00:42
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habeasdorkus posted:There's no reason why missiles should be limited to 4 gs of acceleration. Them being as slow as they are ingame is a major reason why the point defense can work. The listed acceleration actually doesn't do much for missile top speed, that's more a limit of their delta-v. That's why the high accel low delta-v point defense missiles are so slow when fired at enemy ships.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:58
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I can understand the missile speeds being lower just for dramatic effect - same with PD being slowed down to match. Any realistic missile combat and PD would be a blur and if you really wanted to guard your ship against a missile that can instantly kill you you would instead just shoot massive amounts of buckshot into space instead of fancy lasers or whatever. No amount of missiles will get through a cloud of metal traveling at extreme relative velocities at each other.
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Nov 28, 2022 03:13
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Rynoto posted:I can understand the missile speeds being lower just for dramatic effect - same with PD being slowed down to match. Any realistic missile combat and PD would be a blur and if you really wanted to guard your ship against a missile that can instantly kill you you would instead just shoot massive amounts of buckshot into space instead of fancy lasers or whatever. No amount of missiles will get through a cloud of metal traveling at extreme relative velocities at each other. Sand iirc is the go to fun one since its also super cheap.
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Nov 28, 2022 03:25
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Rynoto posted:I can understand the missile speeds being lower just for dramatic effect - same with PD being slowed down to match. Any realistic missile combat and PD would be a blur and if you really wanted to guard your ship against a missile that can instantly kill you you would instead just shoot massive amounts of buckshot into space instead of fancy lasers or whatever. No amount of missiles will get through a cloud of metal traveling at extreme relative velocities at each other. then you'd just give your missles their own anti-buckshot pd
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Nov 28, 2022 09:40
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oh boy this game has sucked me in HARD politics! economics! space colonization! espionage! coups and counter-coups! sci-fi poo poo! aliens! it's drat near everything i ever wanted from a game. the previews and news that were out before release made me hopeful but this bitch is going to eat my life
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Nov 30, 2022 00:23
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Rynoto posted:I can understand the missile speeds being lower just for dramatic effect - same with PD being slowed down to match. Any realistic missile combat and PD would be a blur and if you really wanted to guard your ship against a missile that can instantly kill you you would instead just shoot massive amounts of buckshot into space instead of fancy lasers or whatever. No amount of missiles will get through a cloud of metal traveling at extreme relative velocities at each other. " Atomic Rockets posted:Option: Shoot them down before terminal phase with long-range k-slugs. Stairmaster fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 30, 2022 00:47
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There is a point in spaceship missile, anti-missile, anti-missile-anti-missile, anti-anti-missile-anti-missile theorycrafting where you just throw up your hands and walk away because you're back to designing actual ships but smaller.
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Nov 30, 2022 01:17
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just build stark jegans
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Nov 30, 2022 01:21
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Saros posted:There is a point in spaceship missile, anti-missile, anti-missile-anti-missile, anti-anti-missile-anti-missile theorycrafting where you just throw up your hands and walk away because you're back to designing actual ships but smaller. 
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Nov 30, 2022 01:39
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Saros posted:There is a point in spaceship missile, anti-missile, anti-missile-anti-missile, anti-anti-missile-anti-missile theorycrafting where you just throw up your hands and walk away because you're back to designing actual ships but smaller. The community goes into convulsions any time anyone suggests carriers/drones for some reason. It's like they haven't even seen star wars.
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Nov 30, 2022 01:46
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Saros posted:There is a point in spaceship missile, anti-missile, anti-missile-anti-missile, anti-anti-missile-anti-missile theorycrafting where you just throw up your hands and walk away because you're back to designing actual ships but smaller. I, too, have played Aurora.
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Nov 30, 2022 02:26
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Saros posted:There is a point in spaceship missile, anti-missile, anti-missile-anti-missile, anti-anti-missile-anti-missile theorycrafting where you just throw up your hands and walk away because you're back to designing actual ships but smaller. The forever inescapable problem that the more maneuverability you want to give something the more ∆v is required which, unless you have an incredibly dense exotic fuel, requires bigger and bigger vessels to contain.  Turns out space combat is boring.
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Nov 30, 2022 02:33
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I dunno about boring, it's just not 1:1 to naval combat like Star Wars.
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Nov 30, 2022 02:54
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Nessus posted:I dunno about boring, it's just not 1:1 to naval combat like Star Wars. Nothing wrong with picking an aesthetic and just rolling with it, reality be damned.
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Nov 30, 2022 03:06
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Rynoto posted:Nothing wrong with picking an aesthetic and just rolling with it, reality be damned. To be fair TI's aesthetic is pretty much "highly realistic real world tech space combat." I don't know if it's the best choice but I can understand them wanting to be fairly consistent with it.
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Nov 30, 2022 04:06
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Can ships equipped with survey teams go survey stuff that you can't send probes to yet? Thinking I might try to ensure Mission to the Inner Planets stays off the tech table for awhile if I can send a crew to Mercury without it, give me time to monopolize the place. Keep it nice and safe from all these bastards crawling all over my Mars 
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Nov 30, 2022 21:51
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You can't transfer to places until the Mission to [place] global research is complete. So you can't, say, park a colony ship at Mercury to wait for that tech. But for your plan, the AI does not use survey ships at all in my experience so your ship will beat the ai to the probe 100% of the time, if they even try to colonize Mercury at all.
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Nov 30, 2022 22:18
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Ahh ok, obvious solution to potentially sniping sites there. Rip to the AI tho.
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Nov 30, 2022 22:29
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The ai is... rudimentary. It does not know how to much other than annoy the player, and it has no idea what to do in space. The only ai faction that stands a chance at winning are the Servants and maybe the Protectorate, mostly because the aliens do almost all the work for them.
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Nov 30, 2022 22:39
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Yeah I was reading the subreddit and it does seem like the AI needs work before 1.0 but hopefully that'll happen.
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Nov 30, 2022 23:20
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SettingSun posted:You can't transfer to places until the Mission to [place] global research is complete. So you can't, say, park a colony ship at Mercury to wait for that tech. I'm actually curious about this: is the correct way to build a colony ship to utilize Ion Engines (or Grid Drives)? The last time I tried this using nuclear drives (with the 100% probe speed tech admittedly), my probe beat the colony ship HANDILY, thought the ship still had utility as a base builder.
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Dec 1, 2022 07:21
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Events transpired to direct us to the Jovian system rather than the Inner Planets, but thanks to my Ceres base I was able to expand out to the Galilean moons rapidly, completely covering Ganymede and Europa with my bases and getting one on Io as well. As it turns out, extremely rapid space expansion gets the ayys mad as gently caress. Tokugawa Station in Europan orbit actually scored humanity's first victory against an alien vessel as a result, which is going to be a huge boon once we start properly in on their tech, but other than that it's been an absolute shitshow and they're razing the whole dang system to the ground 
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Dec 1, 2022 08:09
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Warmachine posted:I'm actually curious about this: is the correct way to build a colony ship to utilize Ion Engines (or Grid Drives)? The last time I tried this using nuclear drives (with the 100% probe speed tech admittedly), my probe beat the colony ship HANDILY, thought the ship still had utility as a base builder. Grid drives are the go-to, they are only slightly up the tree compared to Ion Drives and much better. With grid drives you can do a colony ship with 150-200 kps pretty easily - which *dramatically* shortens your transit times, and they're still pretty cheap as long as you keep your weight down. I'll note colony ships are basically a luxury in the inner system, but going for Jupiter and beyond that you really need them to keep times in sane timeframes. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 08:19
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I'll have to play a new game and recheck the probe times to Mercury, because I recall from my previous games that strapping some early nuclear drives to a monitor and achieving like 40 dV was enough to get there within a few weeks and that coupled with the 30 day probe time from a ship was always the clear winner.
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Dec 1, 2022 13:51
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Grid drives are the go-to, they are only slightly up the tree compared to Ion Drives and much better. With grid drives you can do a colony ship with 150-200 kps pretty easily - which *dramatically* shortens your transit times, and they're still pretty cheap as long as you keep your weight down. At least before the Resource Campus changes, I wasn't typically heading to Jupiter until I already had some form of torch drive because I was always paranoid about my ability to fight aliens out past Mars. I was always generating enough research by the time the card could be researched that I could keep the AI from reaching it and thus keep everything beyond the belt off limits until I was ready to cruise out there.
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Dec 1, 2022 14:24
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With the surface-to-orbit defense bug fixed in the latest releases, I think an earlier defense of the jovian moons is more tenable. If you can get a station and base up and defended before the aliens come knocking it's much easier to conduct operations there.
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Dec 1, 2022 14:32
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Ms Adequate posted:Events transpired to direct us to the Jovian system rather than the Inner Planets, but thanks to my Ceres base I was able to expand out to the Galilean moons rapidly, completely covering Ganymede and Europa with my bases and getting one on Io as well. The Aliens will nuke any and all bases and stations you have in the Jovian system if you do not have a fleet there to protect them. This goes for every planetary system or object beyond Mars. They will continue to try to do this even after you've blown up their stations and mining bases in the Jovian system. They will do this by sending one ship, over and over and over to the Jovian moons. This includes sending single dreadnoughts into low orbit with your anti-matter engined Titans that will always catch their dreadnoughts over, and over, and over. I got so annoyed chasing down these single ships sent to all over the place to blow everything up, I strait up stopped playing. Having to manage each interception of the Alien version of partisan chasing is not fun, even when you have the ships to do it where they need to be. Turns out it's not just the human AI that needs work before 1.0. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 23:35
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ZombieLenin posted:The Aliens will nuke any and all bases and stations you have in the Jovian system if you do not have a fleet there to protect them. This goes for every planetary system or object beyond Mars. Ah I wasn't aware they would try to gently caress up anything beyond the belt, but that does explain why they were so relentless about it (And I was WELL short of the techs needed to send effective combat forces out there, I was trying to rely on hab defensive structures but that only gets you so far lol)
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Dec 2, 2022 03:02
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Rynoto posted:Nothing wrong with picking an aesthetic and just rolling with it, reality be damned. Highly realistic real world tech space combat where the weapon ranges are measured in hundreds of km but the ships are measured in meters but the ships appear as if they're 1000x their real size but ramming still uses these 1000x hitboxes where you have to individually order each ship instead of having any kind of command structure or any kind of combat AI helping C&C or flying or gunnery to, say, help ships stay in formation or coordinate volleys where hyper-advanced missiles fly realistically but can't be ordered around like they're miniature ships like is possible with actual real life cruise missiles today where orbital mechanics would determine the relative position and velocities of fleets and therefore every engagement envelope but instead there are only two starting positions and speeds for combat, and those are slowly creeping together are head-on or slowly flying parallel stern chase where there's a hard g-force limit because of crew but we can already automate spaceships to require no crew at all and that g-force limit acts as a cap on speed rather than a cap on acceleration I could go on. Now not all of these would be any good, like, a hyper-realistic set of starting vectors and velocities would probably make combat ridiculously unfun. But it certainly isn't following the aesthetic that closely. I feel the game is pretty well serviced by consistently throwing fleets together for big battles even if this is somewhat unrealistic, but then makes it as hard as possible to control those battles or implement actual tactics in them.
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Dec 2, 2022 04:24
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Uh holy poo poo So the US had like seven violent revolutions in the space of a year and ended up finally settled under the complete control of the Servents. Taking a break from playing properly I made a backup save and worked to take control of Russia where, just for yucks, I initiated total nuclear war on the US. This poo poo is loving apocalyptic. The initial exchanges only ('only') killed about two hundred million people in the two countries but within days the global economy started to implode and within weeks three billion people globally are dead, order has broken down essentially everywhere, the economy has dropped by 90% essentially everywhere (It's closer to 80% in a few countries south of the equator), revolutions are beginning to hit regularly, the lowest resting unrest score I've seen is 6.6 in Iran, and events about massive crop failures in the face of catastrophic climate damage are incredibly punitive with options to try and ameliorate things which are cost-prohibitive in the extreme. It rules. I've wanted, for literally a decade and a half at minimum, a game that lets you have a nuclear war and keep playing in the ashes, and finally - FINALLY - someone delivers. Everything so far has either the nukes being a fail state which you can't play beyond, or their effects are highly constrained. Alleluia! Alleluia!
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Dec 2, 2022 06:26
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Ms Adequate posted:Ah I wasn't aware they would try to gently caress up anything beyond the belt inyalowda gonna pay
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Dec 2, 2022 06:55
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Google Jeb Bush posted:inyalowda gonna pay ayylowda be dzhemang, ke?
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Dec 2, 2022 07:51
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I finished my Humanity First playthrough with a solid win of annihilating the aliens out of the solar system with massed Battleships and Titans then running the McGuffin to Mt. Tentacle and decided to go Servants next. I'd heard they were easier and decided to make my only permanent holdings to be Africa with Kleptocracy (all Spoils preset) running anywhere else I happen into and to be abandoned the moment I need CP for Africa. I had a pretty clean run in the early few years, consolidated Africa with only minor amounts of purging, and then in the late 2020s the Resistance consolidated the USA and holy gently caress they went full 'Murica gently caress Yeah on me with nonstop regime change wars. I could run my counselors in right behind them and purge out the new regime in a couple turns but it got really tedious. So I fomented insurrection in the USA until a non-coup civil war killed it, held the executive for 180 days, then defanged it completely in armies and nukes in 2030. Then abandoned it and re-consolidated Africa, because wow I was over my CP cap. Humanity First has attempted to regime change me with China since, but their armies are way worse and coming in only one at a time. Hee. Then after I started the Alien Administration in Uzbeckistan both HF in China and the Academy in Russia teamed up to murder it. Joke's on the Academy, it left the alien command building up so I fomented Russia into civil war, got the executive, then used the command building still in Uzbeckistan to hand it over to the aliens. The first thing the aliens did was declare a couple wars, including on the defanged USA. I don't think the USA war is going to go the way they want since they're landing one technologically inferior army, but... the first Alien Assault Ship with actual alien armies is due to land in a couple months. It's very different. It's much easier, because as it turns out I don't have to give the slightest poo poo about space since the aliens have that in the bag. I'm looking forward to seeing how or if the AI is going to fight against an alien administration with little or no help from the human involved. Well, I expect to be seeding xenoflora everywhere that's not near me, but I've gotta do something to pass the time while I'm grinding away at uniting Africa and I haven't seen massed xenoflora before since I was stomping the poo poo out of it as HF.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:11
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The AI stands little chance against the alien armies without the player backing them up, especially if the player holds all the major powers. In my Servants game I had already gifted the AA every superpower but Russia and they ran roughshod over what remained of earth. Then they landed a second time and finished them off.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:22
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Warmachine posted:I'm actually curious about this: is the correct way to build a colony ship to utilize Ion Engines (or Grid Drives)? The last time I tried this using nuclear drives (with the 100% probe speed tech admittedly), my probe beat the colony ship HANDILY, thought the ship still had utility as a base builder. You can also go with faster drives with an ISRU module and hop from planet to planet using ISRU to refuel. Faster drives let you take more direct routes to your target, potentially saving time over DV-efficient but weak drives. The transfer planner can help you figure out the most efficient drive for your situation.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:24
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Vengarr posted:You can also go with faster drives with an ISRU module and hop from planet to planet using ISRU to refuel. Faster drives let you take more direct routes to your target, potentially saving time over DV-efficient but weak drives. It's mostly the Mercury/Mars journey I'm talking about here, where planet hopping isn't feesible because there's nothing on the way to either of them. Essentially I built a colony ship with Pulsar Drives, and was disappointed in its performance in getting to Mercury, to the point where I figure it's not worth bothering to use colony ships inside Mars orbit, since you wouldn't have the tech needed to make them good. But I hadn't tried it with Grid Drives, so I wasn't sure if I just used the wrong engine tech or not. Jupiter and beyond, 100% never use probes/launches from Earth.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:31
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TheDemon posted:
like, it's not perfect and it does some corner cutting, but it commits to the aesthetic pretty drat hard otherwise
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Dec 2, 2022 21:14
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