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Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
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| Shohei Ohtani |
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50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
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19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
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15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
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has there ever been a SS class this strong before?
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Dec 5, 2022 17:23
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| # ? May 30, 2024 11:49 |
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bawfuls posted:mcmagic was agreeing with you in response to fast cars loose anus yeah, I just misread the whole thing, alas Intruder posted:has there ever been a SS class this strong before? Considering how long SS was looked at as just a defensive specialist position I can't imagine it's ever been close
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Dec 5, 2022 17:37
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Sydin posted:If I had to pick ten players, within the context of me trying to convey the history of the sport through those players and how they changed it and completely independent of fan bias, it would probably be something like: I like the reasoning included. I might cheat on Bonds/Gehrig since their careers overlap enough that you can sneak lessons on one in with the other. Same with Bonds/Sosa/McGwire. Sosa and Mac are really only historically significant for the one year that can be a part of the Bonds class. Possible replacements that are basically guys that represent an important part of baseball history and are used to discuss topics bigger than a single player. Satchel Paige to cover Negro League history pre-Jackie Shoeless Joe to cover the speedier side of history and why gambling is bad Sadaharu Oh as a proxy for the development of baseball outside of the US
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Dec 5, 2022 17:39
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Intruder posted:has there ever been a SS class this strong before? 2004 had Nomar, Edgar Renteria, and a 38yo Omar Vizquel  That's about the best I can remember, so ... no this is probably the strongest
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Dec 5, 2022 17:39
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only 10 players? done Dexter Fowler Kyle Schwarber Kris Bryant Anthony Rizzo Ben Zobrist Addison Russell Willson Contreras Jason Heyward Javier Baez Kyle Hendricks Jon Lester
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Dec 5, 2022 17:39
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maffew buildings posted:only 10 players? done I guess after losing count of how many years it had been since your last title/WS appearance before 2016 happened I can understand how you'd just lose the ability to count entirely
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Dec 5, 2022 17:46
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I did this math still drunk on a Monday morning (the Wrigleyville way)
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Dec 5, 2022 17:48
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maffew buildings posted:only 10 players? done Wow, a perfect list.
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Dec 5, 2022 17:58
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Just scrolled past the poll at the top of this thread and it got me wondering, how would the Judge/Ohtani MVP race & discussion have gone differently if it happened in the mid-1960's? Without WAR or advanced stats, would '60's baseball writers have been completely awestruck by Ohtani and named him MVP unanimously? Or would they default to Judge for besting Marris so quickly? or maybe the shine would be wearing off the HR record having seen it broken twice in just a few years? Lets assume for the sake of discussion that '60's Ohtani is also on a good team so he's not losing support for that braindead argument that carried too much weight back then.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:03
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100% they would have picked Judge. They were even more obsessed with Yankee players and records back then.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:05
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Pitchers back then were throwing way more than 166 innings, so they would probably knock him for that e: Don Drysdale threw 314 innings in 1962 when he won the Cy Young. Best he ever finished was 5th in MVP voting going 25-9 with a 2.83 ERA over 314 innings, and 23-12 with a 2.77 ERA over 308 innings in 1965. No way they are giving Ohtani an MVP award pitching 166 innings Nodoze fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 18:07
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Being an Asian player probably wouldn't help 60+ years ago either
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Dec 5, 2022 18:13
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Johnny Bravo posted:Being an Asian player probably wouldn't help 60+ years ago either If we are ignoring the Angels suck then we can ignore that too if it even would have mattered. Black players were winning MVP awards in the 50's and 60s too
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Dec 5, 2022 18:17
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I’m sort of surprised at the seeming consensus in here that Judge’s MVP award was somehow dependent on being a Yankee specifically or being on a winning team more generally. I would have voted for him without a second thought. He had the best season, and was the most valuable.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:20
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Poque posted:I'm bored where are the deals Jerry Dipoto keeps calling Cherington: he's got two ferry tickets and a Jarred Kelenic contract ready to go.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:22
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https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1599816026245713921 Signing old pitchers worked out so great for the Mets last year so they are doing it again. I told you guys Eppler was a dogshit GM!!!! Uncle Stevie deserves better.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:22
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Popete posted:100% they would have picked Judge. They were even more obsessed with Yankee players and records back then. Nodoze posted:Pitchers back then were throwing way more than 166 innings, so they would probably knock him for that GalacticAcid posted:I’m sort of surprised at the seeming consensus in here that Judge’s MVP award was somehow dependent on being a Yankee specifically or being on a winning team more generally. I would have voted for him without a second thought. He had the best season, and was the most valuable. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 18:22
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2 Years with a 3rd year option seems fine for Verlander? If he sucks then that probably won't kick in and if it does then it means he's probably been good for the contractbawfuls posted:what if Judge wasn't a Yankee? And this happened say, 5 years after Marris hit 61 so the record was pretty fresh. I understand what you are saying, but I do not think Ohtani is at all capable of throwing 240 innings
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Dec 5, 2022 18:23
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https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1599816869044957185 Very lucky for the yankees that this happened before Judge went to SF so they are saved from doing something stupid
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Dec 5, 2022 18:25
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Pitchers being good hitters wasn't that far removed back then so I don't think Ohtani stands out as much in that respect. We haven't had a legitimate two way player in like 80+ years. Yankees dominated the sport then, breaking Marris record and being a Yankee I think would have been a sure MVP.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:26
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Nodoze posted:2 Years with a 3rd year option seems fine for Verlander? If he sucks then that probably won't kick in and if it does then it means he's probably been good for the contract I think if you transported any modern pitcher back to that era, the best would fare at least as well as the best of the time. They were facing weaker hitters back then and could carry increased workload as a result.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:27
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Told you JV would end up on the Mets after DeGrom bolted. Good luck pal, thank you for 5 amazing years (of which 2 you were injured)
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Dec 5, 2022 18:27
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Knew it was coming but losing Verlander is still a bummer. The pitching depth mitigates the loss a bit but not entirely obviously considering he was by far the best starter on the staff during the regular season
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Dec 5, 2022 18:27
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Aaron Judge would win because he is big and huge in stature and had a big and huge season
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Dec 5, 2022 18:28
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PLEASE go get Rodon Yankees. for the love of god
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Dec 5, 2022 18:28
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Popete posted:Pitchers being good hitters wasn't that far removed back then so I don't think Ohtani stands out as much in that respect. We haven't had a legitimate two way player in like 80+ years. What if Ohtani were a Yankee and Judge were an Oriole? (though in 1966 the Yankees finished dead last in the AL at 70-89)
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Dec 5, 2022 18:29
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1599816869044957185 Honestly if you asked me which contract I'd rather have for my team between this one and the DeGron one I would take this one pretty easily
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Dec 5, 2022 18:30
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IcePhoenix posted:Honestly if you asked me which contract I'd rather have for my team between this one and the DeGron one I would take this one pretty easily many people are saying this
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Dec 5, 2022 18:30
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IcePhoenix posted:Honestly if you asked me which contract I'd rather have for my team between this one and the DeGron one I would take this one pretty easily Only because it's shorter. The Mets knew Rodon was a FA, right? Maybe Eppler just forgot about him.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:30
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bawfuls posted:I think he is as capable of it as say Verlander is of throwing 300. That isn't fair to assume. You also can't say "well, back then he would have been able to do this" because if you want to make that argument how many dingers is Judge hitting? Taking their seasons as is, Ohtanis pitching is no where close to standing out for that time period
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Dec 5, 2022 18:30
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mcmagic posted:Only because it's shorter. I mean yes that is the obvious factor but also because I'm just wondering how much DeGrom is actually going to pitch during his deal and 5 years and that much money for a dude that can't stay healthy is bad.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:32
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IcePhoenix posted:I mean yes that is the obvious factor but also because I'm just wondering how much DeGrom is actually going to pitch during his deal and 5 years and that much money for a dude that can't stay healthy is bad. I'm not saying the Mets should've signed deGrom. I think it's likely he misses ~30% of that contract. He's also a 5 inning pitcher.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:33
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IcePhoenix posted:I mean yes that is the obvious factor but also because I'm just wondering how much DeGrom is actually going to pitch during his deal and 5 years and that much money for a dude that can't stay healthy is bad. I think it'll break down to around 400k per inning over 5 years
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Dec 5, 2022 18:34
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Is $43MM the largest single season deal for an MLB player?
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Dec 5, 2022 18:34
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Verlander is FAR more likely to give you your moneys worth, or something close to it, on that deal vs what deGrom signed for. deGrom could easily end up like Strasburg and barely pitch due to injury given how things have gone recently
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Dec 5, 2022 18:34
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Surprised Bawfuls didn't post this one yet https://twitter.com/FabianArdaya/status/1599811085598855168
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Dec 5, 2022 18:34
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Who would you rather have in 2023? Rodon or Verlander? For me it's Rodon not even close. https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1599819633422655489 I'M READY TO BE HURT AGAIN
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Dec 5, 2022 18:35
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Even as someone who just did this with "team dynasties", comparing baseball players/seasons across eras is essentially impossible and/or pointless. doing it at a team level is far more possible though, doing it at an individual level is just isnane
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Dec 5, 2022 18:35
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Nodoze posted:That isn't fair to assume. You also can't say "well, back then he would have been able to do this" because if you want to make that argument how many dingers is Judge hitting? Taking their seasons as is, Ohtanis pitching is no where close to standing out for that time period 60+ home runs has always been hard, in all eras of the game. Something about the way the metagame of baseball has evolved has maintained that. Innings totals meanwhile have consistently declined over the course of baseball's history. Clearly there is something evolving in the metagame which drives this. To argue otherwise is to argue that plumbers from the 19th century who threw 600+ IP were the greatest pitchers of all time and I think we can all understand why that's a nonsensical position. The change in workload must be related to a change in the nature of the work, not in the innate durability of the pitcher. The most obvious explanation is that guys have to throw max effort or close to it on essentially every pitch now, while their predecessors did not. IcePhoenix posted:Surprised Bawfuls didn't post this one yet it was essentially known a month ago, we've just been waiting for him to get around to the physical to make it official
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Dec 5, 2022 18:36
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| # ? May 30, 2024 11:49 |
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mcmagic posted:Who would you rather have in 2023? Rodon or Verlander? For me it's Rodon not even close. My gut feeling is Rodon to Dodgers
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Dec 5, 2022 18:39
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