USCE Autumn: Well Actually, This IS somethingpedantic.com

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Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

I just now realized something obvious. Putin was clearly waiting until after the runoff. The swap was offered months ago during the summer, but it seemed odd that Russia would just say ok on a random Wednesday night in December. Same reason that Russia waited until the day after the midterm to make a big retreat in Ukraine.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:08

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# ? May 25, 2024 00:06

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Rigel posted:

I just now realized something obvious. Putin was clearly waiting until after the runoff. The swap was offered months ago during the summer, but it seemed odd that Russia would just say ok on a random Wednesday night in December. Same reason that Russia waited until the day after the midterm to make a big retreat in Ukraine.

Biden didn't approve the deal until last week. News articles are saying that they came to this agreement in the last few weeks. I don't think there is anything there to indicate that this is timed to the runoff.

It's more likely that waiting until after the midterms was one of the many things Russia was considering in negotiations, the same way the midterms were one of many things in consideration with the retreat. But no one decided Wednesday night that the deal was on. It took weeks.

Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Dec 8, 2022

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:30

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Main Paineframe posted:

There's flavors of American right-wing extremism that say that high-profile violence or breakdowns in public order (such as mass shootings, major infrastructure breakdowns, or natural disasters) would snowball into a collapse of American society as we know it, and that they would somehow thrive in the post-collapse America. This can range from preppers thinking they're going to be living like kings in the post-collapse society to white supremacists thinking it's going to kick off a final war of racial annihilation for control of the country. And there's a sub-group of that which adds in some accelerationism, tacking on the idea that it's better to go out of their way to try to cause that collapse in society so that they can usher in that period of far-right domination sooner.

The right-wing militia plots are usually more dramatic than this, but after seeing someone cause this much damage without being caught, it's not shocking that there'd be copycats even without an explicit connection.

The only real question is how many variations of the "I am an alpha wolf amongst sheep" shirts this guy has if/when they do catch him.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:38

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Gumball Gumption posted:

Biden didn't approve the deal until last week. News articles are saying that they came to this agreement in the last few weeks. I don't think there is anything there to indicate that this is timed to the runoff.

It's more likely that waiting until after the midterms was one of the many things Russia was considering in negotiations, the same way the midterms were one of many things in consideration with the retreat. But no one decided Wednesday night that the deal was on. It took weeks.

It was widely reported that we've been offering this swap at least unofficially since the summer and Russia was declining the offer, at least until now. Perhaps the timing with the runoff election will turn out to be a coincidence but it seems pretty clear that Russia was not interested in giving Biden any political help before November. Biden pretty much said in his press conference that he also believed the retreat was delayed until after the midterm.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:50

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

Covid was the barest training wheels on how preppers and other stupid fuckboys would deal with an actual large scale bad thing, theyre wouldnt last a week.

sucks that a lot of non regressive have to suffer because a bunch of people have ego problems.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:52

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

PhazonLink posted:

Covid was the barest training wheels on how preppers and other stupid fuckboys would deal with an actual large scale bad thing, theyre wouldnt last a week.

They might, but the first step is to recognize that the Bad Thing is actually occurring so they all failed right out of the gate

# ? Dec 8, 2022 18:54

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

The prepper chuds are expecting something more akin to a zombie movie or a Red Dawn scenario where all they have to do is play Hide and Seek and not have to go to work or do anything because there's been a full societal breakdown, and eventually leverage that into their fantasy scenario of being the Lord of some little fiefdom.

A situation like COVID where they still had some semblance of a responsibility to other people is beyond them.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:01

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

FlamingLiberal posted:

Brittney Griner is finally free

https://twitter.com/potus/status/1600841306560937986?s=46&t=3BMoJWBD6wkjdHyEyp9P8A

Why is it that US citizens shouldn�t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:05

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

There's no info on it yet and it happened in a different state. Seems like "crazy person saw something on news and went to copy it," but we don't really know.

I wouldn't dismiss a possible connection just because it happened in SC instead of NC. It's only about a 3 hour drive.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:10

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

the_steve posted:

The prepper chuds are expecting something more akin to a zombie movie or a Red Dawn scenario where all they have to do is play Hide and Seek and not have to go to work or do anything because there's been a full societal breakdown, and eventually leverage that into their fantasy scenario of being the Lord of some little fiefdom.

A situation like COVID where they still had some semblance of a responsibility to other people is beyond them.

Also a big part of dystopian chud fantasy world is being able to go about shooting anyone you don't like with impunity.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:18

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Oh is it confirmed it was a trade? No idea what the guy did to get on our shitlist, ignoring sanctions would probably be my first guess.

FlapYoJacks posted:

Why is it that US citizens shouldn�t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

Well prisoner trades are also legal so it wasn't ignored.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:19

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

FlapYoJacks posted:

Why is it that US citizens shouldn’t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

Because when we let other countries enforce their laws on our citizens, it makes us look weak because reasons. Especially when it's Putin and Russia doing it.

Actually it's probably exactly because it happened in Russia. If it had happened in England, it probably wouldn't have lasted an entire news cycle.

Granted, different legal systems and all, but still.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:20

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

FlapYoJacks posted:

Why is it that US citizens shouldn’t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

The US should protest unjust actions towards US citizens abroad. That was pretty clearly the case here.

We should do the same thing for people within the US too.

the_steve posted:

Because when we let other countries enforce their laws on our citizens, it makes us look weak because reasons. Especially when it's Putin and Russia doing it.

What do you think the correct course of action was here?

DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 8, 2022

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:20

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

DeadlyMuffin posted:

The US should protest unjust actions towards US citizens abroad. That was pretty clearly the case here.

We should do the same thing for people within the US too.

The laws in Russia are pretty clear and she violated them anyways. Protesting is fine, but trading an arms dealer for her?

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:22

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Arms dealers run our government lol, no we're not actually going to have any issues releasing one back into the wild and at least this time some good came of it.

But like I said, prisoner trades are also within the scope of the law. At no point in this whole process was Russian law ignored.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:25

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Epic High Five posted:

Oh is it confirmed it was a trade? No idea what the guy did to get on our shitlist, ignoring sanctions would probably be my first guess.

Partially. His other nickname was "The Sanctions Buster" because he was able to get missiles and mines that were banned to countries under sanctions like Afghanistan under the Taliban and the DRC.

- He ran guns to basically every group/civil war in Africa.
- He smuggled anti-air missiles into Afghanistan and the Taliban.
- He smuggled bombs to a terrorist group in Thailand.
- He smuggled anti-air missiles to Mohmar Quaddaffi and Hezbollah in the mid-2000's.
- He supplied the missiles to the terrorist groups that shot down the planes in the 2002 Mombasa attacks.
- He helped launder money for Al-qaeda groups in Africa.

All while working for the FSB.

The character Nick Cage plays in the movie "Lord of War" was based on him.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 8, 2022

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:25

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

FlapYoJacks posted:

The laws in Russia are pretty clear and she violated them anyways. Protesting is fine, but trading an arms dealer for her?

The fact that something is the law doesn't make it just. I said unjust, not illegal.

I don't know enough about the arms dealer she was traded for to say of the trade made sense or not. Maybe, maybe not, depending on the specifics of what he did.

Do you think 9 years for cannabis residue in used vape cartridges is a just sentence?

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:26

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

FlapYoJacks posted:

Why is it that US citizens shouldn’t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

I mean, she did and then the country decided to trade her. Also the whole merchant of death thing is goofy. The thing that truly makes him a criminal to the US is that he doesn't commit his crimes for us. If you're getting hyper focused on Russia grabbing a minor celebrity to get some leverage in the spy game you're just getting worked by the spy game. Also the spy game between modern nation states is horrific and ruins a lot of innocent lives.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:26

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

PhazonLink posted:

Covid was the barest training wheels on how preppers and other stupid fuckboys would deal with an actual large scale bad thing, theyre wouldnt last a week.

sucks that a lot of non regressive have to suffer because a bunch of people have ego problems.

They generally imagine it'll be more like the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where the breakdown of public order provided a convenient excuse for white people to fortify areas and then shoot any black people who approached in the name of "stopping looters".

Here's how it went in one New Orleans neighborhood: first from the perspective of a friendly news source doing a puff piece on the brave militias...

quote:

Armed militia protects its New Orleans neighborhood

NEW ORLEANS � The Algiers Point militia put its armaments away Friday as Army troops patrolled the historic neighborhood across the Mississippi River from the French Quarter.

But the band of neighbors who survived Hurricane Katrina and then fought off looters has not disarmed.

"Pit Bull Will Attack. We Are Here and Have Gun and Will Shoot," said the sign on Alexandra Boza's front porch. Actually, said the spunky woman behind the sign, "I have two pistols."

"I'm a part of the militia," said Boza. "We were taking the law into our own hands, but I didn't kill anyone."

She did quietly open her front door and fire a warning shot one night when she heard a loud group of young men approaching her house.

About a week later, she said she finally saw a New Orleans policeman on her street and told him she had guns.

"He told me, 'Honey, I don't blame you,' " she said.

For days after the storm, the several dozen people who did not evacuate from Algiers Point said they did not see any police or soldiers but did see gangs of intruders.

So they set up what might be the ultimate neighborhood watch.

At night, the balcony of a beautifully restored Victorian house built in 1871 served as a lookout point. "I had the right flank," said Vinnie Pervel. Sitting in a white rocking chair on the balcony, his neighbor, Gareth Stubbs, protected the left flank.

They were armed with an arsenal gathered from the neighborhood � a shotgun, pistols, a flare gun and a Vietnam-era AK-47. They were backed up by Gregg Harris, who lives in the house with Pervel, and Pervel's 74-year-old mother, Jennie, who lives across Pelican Street from her son and is known in Algiers Point as "Miss P."

Many nights, Miss P. had a .38-caliber pistol in one hand and rosary beads in the other.

"Mom was a trouper," said Pervel.

The threat was real.

On the day after Katrina blew through, Pervel had been carjacked a couple of blocks from his house. A past president of the Algiers Point Association homeowners group, Pervel was going to houses that had been evacuated and turning off the gas to prevent fires.

A guy with a mallet "hit me in the back of the head," said Pervel. "He said, 'We want your keys.' I said, 'here, take them.' "

Inside the white Ford van were a portable generator, tools and other hurricane supplies. A hurt and frustrated Pervel threw pliers at the van as it drove off and broke a back window.

Another afternoon, a gunfight broke out on the streets as armed neighbors and armed intruders exchanged fire in broad daylight. "About 25 rounds were fired," said Harris. Blood was later found on the street from a wounded intruder.

Not far away, Oakwood Center mall was seriously damaged in a fire caused by vandals.

"We were really afraid of fires. These old houses are so close together that if one was set afire, the whole street would all go up," said Harris. "We lived in terror for a week."

Their house is filled with antique furniture, and there's a well-kept garden and patio in back. "We've been restoring this house for 20 years," said Harris.

There are gas lamps on the columned porch that stayed on during the storm and its aftermath. The militia rigged car headlights and a car battery on porches of nearby houses. Then they put empty cans beneath trees that had fallen across both ends of the block.

When someone approached in the darkness, "you could hear the cans rattle. Then we would hit the switch at the battery and light up the street," said Pervel. "We would yell, 'we're going to count three and if you don't identify yourself, we're going to start shooting.' "

They could hear people fleeing and never fired a shot.

During the days, the hurricane holdouts patrolled the streets protecting their houses and the ones of evacuees.

"I was packing," said Robert Johns. "A .22 magnum with hollow points and an 8mm Mauser from World War II with armor-piercing shells."

Despite their efforts, some deserted houses were broken into and looted, said Pervel.

Now the Algiers Point militia has defiantly declared it will not heed any orders for mandatory evacuation. The relatively elevated neighborhood area is across the Mississippi River from the city's worst flooded areas and has running water, gas and phone service.

"They say they're going to drag us kicking and screaming from our houses. For what? To take us to concentration camps where we'll be raped and killed," said Ramona Parker. "This is supposed to be America. We're honest citizens. We're not troublemakers. We pay our taxes."

"It would be cruel for the city to make us evacuate after what we've been through," said Pervel.

The roof was damaged on her house and the rains left "water up to my ankles," said Boza. So she moved into her mother's nearby home.

She said she still has 42 bullets to expend before she could be forcibly evacuated.

"Then I hope the men they send to pull me out are 6 feet 2 inches and really cute," she said. "I'll be struggling and flirting at the same time."

and then from the perspective of what it looked like from the perspective of the random innocent passerby they were shooting at:

quote:

Three days after Hurricane Katrina turned New Orleans into a ghost town, somebody shot Donnell Herrington twice in Algiers Point, ripping a hole in his throat.

Herrington, who is African-American, says he was ambushed by a group of armed white men who attacked without warning or provocation. He barely survived the shooting, which shredded his internal jugular vein, a key vessel that transports blood from the brain to the heart. He believes the assault was racially motivated.

No one has ever been charged in the incident, but now, more than four years later, and at least two people have come forward with information implicating a neighborhood man in the attack. In interviews with ProPublica, the Times-Picayune, and PBS' "Frontline," at least two figures provided information implicating Roland Bourgeois Jr., a neighborhood man, in the attack.

Terri Benjamin, who lived in the area, said she saw Bourgeois, 47, clutching a shotgun, pledge to shoot anybody with skin "darker than a brown paper bag." At one point, she said, he held up the blood-drenched baseball cap of a man who had just been shot.

Bourgeois' mother, Pam Pitre, said her son did fire his shotgun at an African-American man that day in Algiers Point, and acknowledged that he kept the man's hat. Pitre, who insists her son "is not a racist," said Bourgeois was accompanied by another man who also fired shots.

Herrington, whose story closely tracks the accounts of Pitre and Benjamin, lost his navy blue baseball cap when he was shot. After viewing a photo of Bourgeois, Herrington identified the man as one of his attackers. Bourgeois, he said, "definitely was one of the guys I saw that day. ... I definitely remember him. He was one of 'em."

Bourgeois, who has not been charged with any crime, declined to be interviewed.

The Herrington shooting is the subject of an ongoing probe by U.S. Department of Justice attorneys and FBI agents, who are examining claims that white residents of Algiers Point attacked African-Americans in a spate of racially motivated violence in the days after Katrina tore through Louisiana. During the past several months, federal prosecutors have questioned several witnesses about the alleged hate crimes in grand jury proceedings.

At the U.S. Department of Justice, spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa said she could not comment on the investigation.

So far, the hate crimes probe has been overshadowed by a sprawling federal investigation of the New Orleans Police Department, an effort that has snared guilty pleas from three former officers for crimes committed in the aftermath of the storm. But the accounts of what transpired in Algiers Point may soon force the city to revisit another painful episode from those grim days.

'I thought it was over'

The floodwaters that spilled over much of New Orleans didn't touch Algiers Point.

Still, the catastrophe prompted the neighborhood's residents -- most of whom are white -- to take action. Within days, a band of 15 to 30 locals had taken up weapons, barricaded the streets with downed trees and debris, and begun regular patrols of the area. Residents say they were trying to keep their homes from being overrun by thieves and outlaws.

"There's no black and white issue here," said Clyde Price III, a white man who lived next door to Bourgeois for many years.

But others, including Malik Rahim, the co-founder of the activist group Common Ground Relief, who was in Algiers Point in the days after the storm, believe the neighborhood militia carried out a series of hate crimes, threatening and shooting black people who walked into the area.

Herrington said the attack on him occurred on Sept. 1, 2005, as he strode toward the Algiers Point ferry terminal with his cousin, Marcel Alexander, and a friend, Chris Collins.

As part of a rescue mission called Operation Dunkirk, the U.S. Coast Guard had created a makeshift evacuation center at the terminal. Using an array of watercraft, sailors transported thousands of flood victims from St. Bernard Parish and East Bank neighborhoods to the ferry terminal; from there, they were bused out of town.

Herrington, 33, and his companions say they were aiming to get on one of those buses.

But as the trio approached the intersection of Pelican Avenue and Vallette Street, a white man pointed a shotgun at Herrington and, without saying a word, squeezed the trigger, according to Herrington. "I thought I was about to die," he said. "I thought it was over."

The first shotgun blast ripped into his throat, torso and arms. Somehow, Herrington got to his feet and began running. He remembers two more armed men joining the first gunman. As he tried to escape, he says, a second blast struck him in the back.

Both Alexander and Collins witnessed the shooting, and both also suffered minor gunshot wounds. "I thought Donnell was dead," recalled Alexander, who backs up his cousin's account. "I thought that I would never see Donnell no more."

Alexander, who was 17 at the time, said he and Collins were briefly taken prisoner by a group of about five armed white men, one of whom threatened to set them on fire. Eventually, though, the men let Alexander and Collins go.

Bleeding, Herrington staggered to the home of an African-American couple who drove him to West Jefferson Medical Center, where doctors discovered buckshot in his arms, chest, abdomen and back, X-ray reports show. A cluster of pellets had torn open the internal jugular vein along the right side of his throat, according to medical records and one of Herrington's surgeons, Dr. Charles Thomas. At 3:43 p.m., he underwent surgery to repair the shredded vein.

Herrington is adamant that he and his companions did nothing to provoke the incidents. "We were just in the neighborhood for a few minutes," he said. "We were just passing through." The only way to the ferry terminal from his home, he noted, was through Algiers Point.

During the course of several interviews, Herrington remembered one last detail about his ordeal: He had been wearing a navy blue baseball cap bearing the logo of either the New York Yankees or the Detroit Tigers. During the scramble, he said, the hat must have fallen off his head.

As Terri Benjamin and her aunt, Eudith Rodney, walked along Pelican Avenue that day, the reverberating boom of gunfire echoed through the thick, humid air.

Fearful, the women began running toward the safety of Benjamin's home. As they neared Vallette Street, they encountered a group of armed white men, Benjamin said.

Among the men, Benjamin recalled, was Roland Bourgeois Jr., who lived just two doors down on Vallette Street. Bourgeois was gripping a shotgun and celebrating.

"My neighbor was jumping up and down, hootin' and hollerin' like he was big game hunting and he got the big one," she said. "All of his friends were rallying him on, and they were cheering."

A beefy character with a shaved head, Bourgeois screamed, "I got one!" and boasted that he had shot a "looter," said Benjamin, who shared her story with a federal grand jury on March 25.

Before long, she said, another armed man, someone Benjamin didn't recognize, showed up with news: The person Bourgeois had shot was wounded but alive, a few blocks away.

According to Benjamin, Bourgeois said, "I'm gonna kill that friend of the family," and ran, barefoot and shirtless, down the street before turning and jogging out of view.

Benjamin heard another gunshot.

Bourgeois ran back to join the group of gun-equipped men standing in the street, she said. "He came back with a baseball cap that had blood on it. And I knew there was blood on the cap because it ran onto his arm. And he brandished the cap for all of his friends," Benjamin said. "Everybody cheered. They were happy for him."

Benjamin, who is ethnically mixed -- white, Latino, and African-American -- was waiting for an uncle and cousin, both of whom are African-American, to come to her house. She feared that Bourgeois and the other men would attack her relatives.

"I went to him and asked him to spare their lives," Benjamin remembered. "He said, 'Darlin', anything coming up that street darker than a brown paper bag is getting shot.'"

Traumatized, Benjamin moved out of the state after Katrina, but just weeks ago, she made two trips to the neighborhood, accompanied by a federal prosecutor and an FBI agent who asked her to retrace her steps.

The investigators, she said, were interested in Bourgeois. "They asked me specifically about him," Benjamin said. Assistant U.S. Attorney Forrest Christian also questioned her about a "sidekick" of Bourgeois, she said.

'Like gang members'

Bourgeois may be guilty of poor judgment, but he didn't commit a hate crime, according to his mother, Pam Pitre.

In a recent interview, she explained her understanding of the shooting her son participated in. Pitre said she has discussed the shooting in detail with Bourgeois, and testified before the grand jury about it.

In Pitre's telling, Bourgeois encountered three dangerous and "arrogant" African-American males who had been trying to break into parked cars, Pitre said. "He said they looked like gang members to him," she recalled.

After the trio of black men tried to move one of the barricades blocking the street, Bourgeois and another man began shooting at them, Pitre said. "Both men had guns. Both fired," she said, adding that she didn't know the name of the other shooter.

According to Pitre, the shots were meant to "scare," not to kill.

When the gunfire stopped, Bourgeois "picked up the baseball cap" that had fallen from the head of one of the shooting victims, according to Pitre, who said her son kept the hat until she convinced him to get rid of it.

Pitre said the shooting had nothing to do with skin color. "If they want to say it was a bad decision -- yes, it was. But it wasn't a hate crime," she said. "He is not a racist -- and that's what bothers me more than anything else."

Bourgeois was terrified by the lawlessness that followed the storm and flooding, she said. He was threatened by a group of African-Americans, she said, and "pelted with bottles" in the days before the shooting occurred.

The only reason the matter came to the attention of federal authorities, Pitre said, is that "this man Roland shot survived and is telling his tale."

Bourgeois' family has owned property in Algiers Point for decades, and around the neighborhood he is known as a dog lover. Aside from a 1992 arrest for possession of marijuana, he has no criminal record in Orleans Parish.

Civil court records show Bourgeois has at least two children. He is now living with his mother in Mississippi.

Price, his former neighbor, said Bourgeois has been unfairly tarred as a racist. "Everyone paints a bad picture of him because he's a big, white bald dude and a gun fanatic," Price said. "They think it was all racism. But it wasn't."

Still, Price acknowledged, Bourgeois has a habit of referring to African-Americans as "niggers."

'A racial statement'

During the past year, FBI agents have interviewed Herrington several times and have canvassed the neighborhood, going door-to-door in an effort to find witnesses to the shooting. One local who was questioned by agents said they were seeking information about approximately 30 Algiers Point residents.

At this point, however, it's unclear whether the probe will lead to criminal indictments.

Herrington is still angry about what happened to him.

"To me, it was a hate crime," he said. "It was a racial statement." He thinks if his skin was a different hue -- if he'd been a "white guy" striding through the neighborhood, en route to the ferry terminal -- "it wouldn't have happened to me."

That is the kind of poo poo the right-wing accelerationists imagine, but on a large scale. That the cops will disappear (or engage in their own random murders of black people while pretending not to notice the militias), and then they'll all grab their guns and canned food, set up lookout posts and barricade the streets, and declare their neighborhood a whites-only zone. That all their white neighbors will drop any pretense of not being racist, and unite under the militias' rule to be protected while justifying it as being protected from "looters" and "thieves"

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:33

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

- He ran guns to basically every group/civil war in Africa.
- He smuggled anti-air missiles into Afghanistan and the Taliban.
- He smuggled bombs to a terrorist group in Thailand.
- He smuggled anti-air missiles to Mohmar Quaddaffi and Hezbollah in the mod 2000's.
- He supplied the missiles to the terrorist groups that shot down the planes in the 2002 Mombasa attacks.
- He helped launder money for Al-qaeda groups in Africa.

All while working for the FSB.

The character Nick Cage plays in the movie "Lord of War" was based on him.

Okay the last bit explains it then, shame he wasn't one of those ethical arms dealers. Griner being freed from her obviously horseshit spy game charges is absolutely worth the population of death merchants going up like 0.01% even assuming he's not too much of a liability to ever go back into it, imho

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:33

pencilhands: Aug 20, 2022

Main Paineframe posted:

They generally imagine it'll be more like the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where the breakdown of public order provided a convenient excuse for white people to fortify areas and then shoot any black people who approached in the name of "stopping looters".

Here's how it went in one New Orleans neighborhood: first from the perspective of a friendly news source doing a puff piece on the brave militias...

and then from the perspective of what it looked like from the perspective of the random innocent passerby they were shooting at:

That is the kind of poo poo the right-wing accelerationists imagine, but on a large scale. That the cops will disappear (or engage in their own random murders of black people while pretending not to notice the militias), and then they'll all grab their guns and canned food, set up lookout posts and barricade the streets, and declare their neighborhood a whites-only zone. That all their white neighbors will drop any pretense of not being racist, and unite under the militias' rule to be protected while justifying it as being protected from "looters" and "thieves"

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:45

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

Epic High Five posted:

Okay the last bit explains it then, shame he wasn't one of those ethical arms dealers. Griner being freed from her obviously horseshit spy game charges is absolutely worth the population of death merchants going up like 0.01% even assuming he's not too much of a liability to ever go back into it, imho

I think it's reasonable to assume that The Merchant of Death has more tracking chips under his skin than your local Humane Society and will be functionally useless in his old gig for the foreseeable future.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 19:46

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The obvious solution is for the U.S. to just start randomly kidnapping high profile ballerinas and hockey players to build up a strategic reserve of valuable Russians to trade when they kidnap an American.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:04

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

skylined! posted:

I think it's reasonable to assume that The Merchant of Death has more tracking chips under his skin than your local Humane Society and will be functionally useless in his old gig for the foreseeable future.

You'd think so, but if anybody in a position to decide whether he's burned or not decides he still has some utility or a rolodex that still has working numbers on it he'll be back at it. It's a growth sector in any recession for anybody who doesn't have what it takes to be a plumber after all.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:06

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Epic High Five posted:

You'd think so, but if anybody in a position to decide whether he's burned or not decides he still has some utility or a rolodex that still has working numbers on it he'll be back at it. It's a growth sector in any recession for anybody who doesn't have what it takes to be a plumber after all.

Joe the Arms Dealer

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:12

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Main Paineframe posted:

That is the kind of poo poo the right-wing accelerationists imagine, but on a large scale. That the cops will disappear (or engage in their own random murders of black people while pretending not to notice the militias), and then they'll all grab their guns and canned food, set up lookout posts and barricade the streets, and declare their neighborhood a whites-only zone. That all their white neighbors will drop any pretense of not being racist, and unite under the militias' rule to be protected while justifying it as being protected from "looters" and "thieves"

Yeah pretty much.

Right wing preppers are mostly prepping for one specific thing: Shooting minorities.

Can't shoot a virus, so they had nothing.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:13

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

skylined! posted:

I think it's reasonable to assume that The Merchant of Death has more tracking chips under his skin than your local Humane Society and will be functionally useless in his old gig for the foreseeable future.

They clearly see some utility in getting the guy back if they were willing to trade for him, at least.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:14

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

FlapYoJacks posted:

Why is it that US citizens shouldn�t face the consequences of breaking the law in another country? Not to mention we traded a merchant of death for her.

Do you think that�s unique to the US? Carrying a US passport obligates the US government to defend you. Or do you think that tourists in the US should suffer Texas criminal penalties for weed because It�s Are Cuntree?

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:23

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

It's not clear that Griner had actually broken the law. It is clear that Russia was specifically looking for hostages they could use as leverage or as wedges in US domestic politics, which is what this all was.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:27

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Discendo Vox posted:

It's not clear that Griner had actually broken the law. It is clear that Russia was specifically looking for hostages they could use as leverage or as wedges in US domestic politics, which is what this all was.

She did break the possession law, but she had less than one gram of oil with THC in it and they gave her 6 drug trafficking and smuggling charges. Which is obviously bullshit.

Also, the average penalty for a Russian possessing the same amount of hash oil she had is a suspended sentence (probation) for two years with no jail time. She got 9 years in a penal colony.

She was also the first person ever to be charged with smuggling and trafficking for such a small amount of THC oil.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:31

Blind Pineapple: Oct 27, 2010; For The Perfect Fruit 'n' Kaman

1 part gin
1 part pomegranate syrup
Fill with pineapple juice
Serve over crushed ice; College Slice

Nucleic Acids posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1600583313370255360

It�s a real shame rail workers had this option stolen from them.

I have a feeling that if push came to shove, the pilots would get the same treatment. The airlines just decided to throw them some relative scraps and avoid the trouble.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:38

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

I think another detail which makes Griner's case a lot more compelling politically is that at the time it probably wasn't obvious to normal people that they shouldn't be in Russia. Athletes have made money in Russia in the offseason before, but she got caught up right when it was clear that there were going to be serious problems between them and the west.

If some American who was a tourist in Russia got grabbed today over a bullshit pretext, we'd still try to get them back but there would probably be less urgency because it would be widely understood that they were a moron who put themselves into danger.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:42

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

She did break the possession law, but she had less than one gram of oil with THC in it and they gave her 6 drug trafficking and smuggling charges. Which is obviously bullshit.

Also, the average penalty for a Russian possessing the same amount of hash oil she had is a suspended sentence (probation) for two years with no jail time. She got 9 years in a penal colony.

She was also the first person ever to be charged with smuggling and trafficking for such a small amount of THC oil.

At this point I would be surprised if she had any THC on her in reality.

Let's make sure we give Russia the benefit of the doubt though, taking less THC through Russia than most posters ITT have in their bodies right now is a violation of Russia's sacred sovereignty, and if that's punishable by nine years in Star Trek 6, so be it.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:44

Uncle Boogeyman: Jul 22, 2007

Blind Pineapple posted:

I have a feeling that if push came to shove, the pilots would get the same treatment. The airlines just decided to throw them some relative scraps and avoid the trouble.

what does "if push came to shove" even mean in this context? they threatened to go on strike and they won

# ? Dec 8, 2022 20:45

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Joe Biden dealing a powerful blow for gamers everywhere who don't want Call of Duty to be an Xbox exclusive.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1600938191225294867

quote:

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) voted Thursday to sue to block Microsoft�s $69 billion acquisition of gaming company Activision Blizzard, adding to the aggressive antitrust action taken under Democratic Chair Lina Khan.

The FTC argued if Microsoft closes the deal, it would have the power to harm competition by being able to change terms to withhold access to Activision�s content, such as the popular �Call of Duty� game, as well as to manipulate pricing and degrade game quality.

The agency alleged Microsoft suppressed competition from rival consoles by acquiring companies in the past, including by deciding to make games like �Starfield� and �Redfall� exclusive to Microsoft devices after acquiring game developer ZeniMax.

�Microsoft has already shown that it can and will withhold content from its gaming rivals,� the director of the FTC�s Bureau of Competition said in a statement. �Today we seek to stop Microsoft from gaining control over a leading independent game studio and using it to harm competition in multiple dynamic and fast-growing gaming markets.�

The three Democrats on the commission voted to block the acquisition. Republican Commissioner Christine Wilson voted against doing so.

Microsoft President Brad Smith said the company continues to �believe that this deal will expand competition and create more opportunities for gamers and game developers.�

�We have been committed since Day One to addressing competition concerns, including by offering earlier this week proposed concessions to the FTC. While we believed in giving peace a chance, we have complete confidence in our case and welcome the opportunity to present our case in court,� Smith said in a statement.

Microsoft is facing global scrutiny over the deal, first announced in January. Last month, the European Commission also announced it opened an in-depth investigation into Microsoft�s proposed acquisition of Activision.

The FTC�s suit to block the deal is the latest aggressive action taken by Khan targeting tech companies over their market power.

The agency is also leading a suit aiming to block Facebook parent company Meta from acquiring the virtual reality company Within. The same day the FTC voted to block Microsoft�s deal, a trial began in the case between the FTC and Meta over the Within acquisition.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:02

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Do you think that�s unique to the US? Carrying a US passport obligates the US government to defend you. Or do you think that tourists in the US should suffer Texas criminal penalties for weed because It�s Are Cuntree?

Yes they should? Until the law is changed in Texas perhaps tourists shouldn�t bring weed into Texas? The best solution is of course to never go to Texas in the first place.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:06

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

As Leon said, Griner broke the law in Russia, but it's pretty much impossible to argue that she didn't receive enormously trumped up charges completely out of proportion with the crime committed entirely in order to hold her hostage as a political bargaining chip.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:10

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Kanos posted:

As Leon said, Griner broke the law in Russia, but it's pretty much impossible to argue that she didn't receive enormously trumped up charges completely out of proportion with the crime committed entirely in order to hold her hostage as a political bargaining chip.

And it worked. It sends the message that other countries can do the same and use Americans as loot bags.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:11

Crows Turn Off: Jan 7, 2008

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Joe Biden dealing a powerful blow for gamers everywhere who don't want Call of Duty to be an Xbox exclusive.

There are hundreds of monopolies in the US that need to be broken up. I guess Microsoft didn't donate enough money to the right people.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:12

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# ? May 25, 2024 00:06

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

The 4 big freight railroads are essentially regional monopolies but they get a contract rammed through.

Weird how that works.

# ? Dec 8, 2022 21:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Autumn: Well Actually, This IS somethingpedantic.com

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