|
susan b buffering posted:WNBA players are not part of "the ruling class" lmao Yeah, I was going to say - I think the posters itt have a very, very inflated sense of the salaries of WNBA players.
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:51 |
|
|
Sub Par posted:This here study suggests that since 2001, "only" 153 Americans have been unjustly jailed abroad. I know that when it's your person, the volume is completely irrelevant. But in abstract terms, that's just not that many and I think bringing them home should be one of our government's priorities. The US government does terrible poo poo all the time. Releasing an arms dealer is nowhere near the top of the list, and at least in cases like this, there's some good that comes from it. Even starting from that list, most cases are not as clear and simple as Griner. She was obviously grabbed for something that a Russian would get a slap on the wrist for because she was an American to be used for political purposes. However, many people in that list were in prison for things and for time that they would have sentenced their own citizens so it gets messier. That doesn't always make it just because we often decide in our opinion that laws in other countries can be unjust, but its difficult to pressure a government into giving someone up if its just a case where they weren't really treated any differently, so you really are asking that foreign government to give your citizens special treatment. And sometimes we will just go ahead and do that anyway, we had an incident a decade ago where a bunch of Americans were in prison for protesting the Egyptian government, but they were arresting everyone including other western nationals and egyptians. We threatened to cut off military aid, and suddenly Egypt decided an exception could be made.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:03
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Got it. I see where you and I disagree. selec posted:I don’t think we should be trading for anybody. Seems weird that we would do that, but the rich and powerful get up to all sorts of poo poo I think is stupid. I feel like both sides of this discussion are dumb because it just totally ignores why Garnier is actually free. It's not because she's ruling class or whatever and it's not because it's the sort of intervention the US thinks everyone should get. It's because she is in the unique position of being famous enough and having a support network that can blow up the story enough that it becomes a bad idea politically to not trade. Mind you the trade we actually wanted was Grainer and Paul Whelan with Whelan most likely being grabbed because we grabbed Maria Butina. Grainer is a victim of a far bigger conflict and she's getting help because it would be politically ugly to not help. She's getting "important person" treatment because Russia grabbed her and went "oh look she's important you need to care" and it's event number whatever in a conflict that's been going on for 50 something years. It just flat out feels like the wrong argument when the real problems here are that you can have your life turned upside down as a pawn in these stupid games.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:08
|
|
|
Lager posted:Yeah, I was going to say - I think the posters itt have a very, very inflated sense of the salaries of WNBA players. I mean "ruling class" may be overkill but she's a multimillionare Olympic gold medalist with endorsement deals from some of the largest companies in the world, she's among the best in the world at her sport and has spent time with President Obama so in the context of "people with friends in high places", I think she counts. vvv Yeah basically what they said. Sub Par fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:08
|
|
|
Griner being grabbed was because she was famous and we'd trade for her. It's probably an example of privilege that she got out, but also she got busted for exactly this reason
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
Sub Par posted:I mean "ruling class" may be overkill but she's a multimillionare Olympic gold medalist with endorsement deals from some of the largest companies in the world, she's among the best in the world at her sport and has spent time with President Obama so in the context of "people with friends in high places", I think she counts. She may have friends in high places but there’s a key difference between her and ruling class: she depends on performing work for a living, has a boss, does not appropriate the fruit of someone else’s labor, goes to work (not invest) in other countries to supplement her income, and unlike some other athletes does not appear to be a business owner.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
susan b buffering posted:WNBA players are not part of "the ruling class" lmao No, but the team owners are, and they value their Human Resources. Edit; she’s a millionaire lol!?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:I feel like both sides of this discussion are dumb because it just totally ignores why Garnier is actually free. It's not because she's ruling class or whatever and it's not because it's the sort of intervention the US thinks everyone should get. It's because she is in the unique position of being famous enough and having a support network that can blow up the story enough that it becomes a bad idea politically to not trade. I'm not making the argument that she's being released "because it's the sort of intervention the US thinks everyone should get". I think you're more or less right about the reasons: there was enough of a ruckus that it became an actual priority. My comment was how I would like it to be, not how I see the reality. Individuals having their lives turned upside down by nations playing games has been an issue for as long as there have been nations. Probably longer if you replace "nations" with "kings". I am not sure such a wide problem is solvable short of the abolishment of states and political hierarchies. In short: I think your argument is dumb too :-)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
FlapYoJacks posted:To not break the law in other countries? I understand it’s trumped up punishment but she did break the law. This is a very naive and black-and-white position. The application of law is nebulous; it is not as simple as "if you didn't want to do the time, don't do the crime." "Just don't break the law" is the same argument conservatives use to send asylum seekers home on illegal immigration charges. It's the same argument the police use to oppress and sabatoge people of color in this country. She was a victim. She was used as a pawn by both sides and that is unjust, but the solution cannot be, "well, that's just how it is." Life is complicated and it is both just to release her and unjust to trade her. You need a different standard than law to judge the validity of that exchange because the law was abused to oppress her in the first place. Nobody should be sent to a penal colony for having THC in a vape. If the solution is, "well just never break the law if you don't want to be oppressed" that's hopelessly naive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:so its a bunch of generic right wing poo poo mixed with dumb brain worms that trump and other fascist dipshits like. also still wanting to repeal obamacare. Its not just the massagers the U40 and suburbs dislike, its that the messages suck poo poo too. The school stuff is going to be insanely popular. My coworker group is white male 200k+ and they all homeschool and despise public schools. It's basically universal among middle class kid-havers these days.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:35
|
|
|
mawarannahr posted:She may have friends in high places but there’s a key difference between her and ruling class: she depends on performing work for a living, has a boss, does not appropriate the fruit of someone else’s labor, goes to work (not invest) in other countries to supplement her income, and unlike some other athletes does not appear to be a business owner. Right like I said, ruling class is overkill but I was responding to the poster talking about WNBA salaries generally. Britney Griner is a huge outlier with multiple endorsement deals who makes more than double the league average. She's legitimately set for life and can choose to stop working whenever she wants and she and at least one successive generation will not have to worry about money. She's super rich compared to virtually every single American citizen. Not ruling class, but knocking on the door.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:38
|
|
|
Listen, if you break the sacred Law you deserve your punishment. Think about all those son-of-a-bitch criminal conductors on the Underground Railroad. Those bastard Germans who hid Jews. Only the sacred Law can protect us and show us what is truly right. Also it doesn't matter what kind of government made those laws or how they're enforced or really, loving anything else at all. Someone wrote it down, case closed, off to argue for a fresh look at the Fugitive Slave Law, perhaps it was misunderstood at the time. Just loving lol at that boot-licking uniform-sucking poo poo so hard, the sacred Lawl
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
JonathonSpectre posted:Listen, if you break the sacred Law you deserve your punishment. I have these exact same opinions but about lying to the FBI, paying accurate taxes and any kind of governmental classification laws. All laws are just made up, it’s the people who have the guns who decide which are real or not, and for who! Weed laws don’t exist for rich people, but in Iowa? If you sign up for the states MMJ program you are immediately barred from receiving food assistance from the state. See? The law works! Rich people and poor people alike who depend on a certain kind of medicine can’t access the state’s food assistance programs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:46
|
|
|
slurm posted:The school stuff is going to be insanely popular. My coworker group is white male 200k+ and they all homeschool and despise public schools. It's basically universal among middle class kid-havers these days. This does not sound very middle class, at least not in way Americans usually mean it in the sense of 'median person'
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:52
|
|
|
selec posted:I have these exact same opinions but about lying to the FBI, paying accurate taxes and any kind of governmental classification laws. I had no idea Donald Trump was a goon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
selec posted:No, but the team owners are, and they value their Human Resources. pro women play in other leagues because they are underpaid and "nO oNe wAnTs to WaTcH GirLz PlaY spOrts" bs from the media masters here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:56
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:... Donald? No, a leftist, holding leftist beliefs. Read some history on how those three particular issues intersect with the suppression of leftists specifically in this country.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:56
|
|
|
slurm posted:The school stuff is going to be insanely popular. My coworker group is white male 200k+ and they all homeschool and despise public schools. It's basically universal among middle class kid-havers these days. LOL no it isn't. That's highly dependent on where in the country you are. The HENRYs elsewhere just pay for private school like language immersion or whatnot, if they're unhappy with public options.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 00:56
|
|
|
Lmao did Trump seriously not add anything about Guns?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:12
|
|
|
Blitz of 404 Error posted:Lmao did Trump seriously not add anything about Guns? Surprisingly no. Also, the only mention of taxes is to re-pass the Trump tax cuts again, but make them permanent this time. It's almost all immigration, crime, voting restrictions, and education.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:16
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Surprisingly no. Phoneposting so I can’t research it well atm: who should we use understand the “platform” is actually coming from?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Phoneposting so I can’t research it well atm: who should we use understand the “platform” is actually coming from? It's from the America First Policy Institute, which is Trump's 501(c)(3) organization he formed with Larry Kudlow, Linda McMahon, and a bunch of former staffers after he left office. quote:The America First Policy Institute, which is headed by Rollins, Trump’s former domestic policy chief, is often described as an “administration in waiting” should Trump be successful in his bid to win a second term. The group is made up of 20 former senior Trump White House officials, as well as eight former Cabinet members and dozens of others who worked in the administration, and has spent the two years since the former president left office building on the policy agenda Rollins and others had begun to map out in 2020 for Trump’s second term. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Dec 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:23
|
|
|
Let's be honest here, this is just a collection of stuff Trump yells at them all day that they threw on a website
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Let's be honest here, this is just a collection of stuff Trump yells at them all day that they threw on a website It seems like it is 1/3 that, 1/3 copy and pasted stuff from his 2020 run, and 1/3 much more eloquently written versions of the standard anti-CRT/anti-trans/pro-police/voting stuff that has become the new hotness for the activist right in the last two years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:36
|
|
|
Lib and let die posted:It looks like a walkout is all but confirmed at NYT. Something is off about this image... it needs something:  There we go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It seems like it is 1/3 that, 1/3 copy and pasted stuff from his 2020 run, and 1/3 much more eloquently written versions of the standard anti-CRT/anti-trans/pro-police/voting stuff that has become the new hotness for the activist right in the last two years. Yeah the most "intelligent" material there is all "someone think of the children!" smokescreen for horrific anti-LGBTQ legislating. And what's extra scary is that means the competent evil folks are handling that while the clowns faff about with everything else. Thank goodness Respect for Marriage Act keeps passing, but the GOP efforts to turn more kids into bigots with no education continues to be a crime against humanity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
Yeah the chuds have made it clear that it's OK to be homophobic again after a brief trip to "maybe we are the baddies/you can't say that without getting in trouble" and they are running with it as hard as possible
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
North Korea grabs whatever US randos they can for their bush-league ransom efforts, and the US usually at least tries to get them back, although north korea is probably satisfied with like $100,000 or something. The coma guy didn’t turn out so well, but that part was probably not intended.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 02:05
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:North Korea grabs whatever US randos they can for their bush-league ransom efforts, and the US usually at least tries to get them back, although north korea is probably satisfied with like $100,000 or something. The coma guy didn’t turn out so well, but that part was probably not intended. Hopefully either Obama or Bush will be up for it if they want another photo op with a former president. Bill is now getting too old, and I don't think we want to send Trump.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
Looks like over a hundred migrants showed up in my city of Denver and no one knows where they came from. https://denverite.com/2022/12/07/heres-what-we-know-about-the-migrants-who-arrived-in-denver-on-monday/ What's interesting about this is that it might be the product of another stunt from DeSantis, Abbot, or another such chud rear end in a top hat politician. The Denverite posted:
It's a sad and difficult situation, because some of the migrants are rather mistrusting of local government officials(don't blame them there) so there's still a lot the state government doesn't know yet. Hopefully the local advocacy groups here can still find a way to help them. If it does turn out to be another relocation stunt, the lack of consequences for these sort of political plays need to change or chud states will keep doing it. I could care less about more migrants in my city, but it's heinous what it does for their court dates. Totally inhumane behavior. Zinkovich fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 9, 2022 |
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 02:47
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Got it. I see where you and I disagree. When rich people get special treatment in America it’s not indicative the laws will change to be more humane to poor people, it’s just special treatment. If anything that they get these exceptions no one else gets are a huge factor in allowing the laws to remain inhumane, as the people in charge of these laws can rest easy no one they care about will ever be on the receiving end. If they were unilaterally enforced with no exceptions it’d be much more likely they’d change, cause it’d end up affecting someone or someone’s family that had actual power or influence to drive the change. Allowing exceptions for the well connected just means loving over marginalized people in perpetuity. For international stuff I dunno if I’d take the same hardline approach, not like we’re going to change Russian laws so it’s a whatever situation. Just sad Americans are in jail for less.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
selec posted:No, a leftist, holding leftist beliefs. Okay ArbitraryC posted:When rich people get special treatment in America it’s not indicative the laws will change to be more humane to poor people, it’s just special treatment. If anything that they get these exceptions no one else gets are a huge factor in allowing the laws to remain inhumane, as the people in charge of these laws can rest easy no one they care about will ever be on the receiving end. If they were unilaterally enforced with no exceptions it’d be much more likely they’d change, cause it’d end up affecting someone or someone’s family that had actual power or influence to drive the change. Allowing exceptions for the well connected just means loving over marginalized people in perpetuity. I completely agree with you. It is probably horribly naive of me, but the point I was trying to make is that this kind of treatment should not be special: it should be the norm for everyone. I'm certainly not arguing that what happened is indicative of us moving that direction. Hopefully there are not many Americans in jail for <1 g of cannabis oil, but it would not surprise me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:33
|
|
|
Rigel posted:Hopefully either Obama or Bush will be up for it if they want another photo op with a former president. Bill is now getting too old, and I don't think we want to send Trump. Kim hates both Bush and Obama and sending Trump would just end with him somehow turning over even more classified material he stole and hid during his presidency to the North Koreans thinking he was being a cool dude in showing it off them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:46
|
|
|
mawarannahr posted:She may have friends in high places but there’s a key difference between her and ruling class: she depends on performing work for a living, has a boss, does not appropriate the fruit of someone else’s labor, goes to work (not invest) in other countries to supplement her income, and unlike some other athletes does not appear to be a business owner. also the reason she was in Russia in the first place is how little she's paid as a WNBA player
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:49
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:I'm happy the US was able to do more for her than the UK has been able to do for its citizens put to death for drug charges. I like states acting for a clear moral good even if its technically against the law. yeah this, tbh. it was going to look bad and get used for propaganda no matter what was done, that was the whole point of it. Might as well take the outcome that at least leads to her not rotting in prison for a decade selec posted:I don’t think we should be trading for anybody. Seems weird that we would do that, but the rich and powerful get up to all sorts of poo poo I think is stupid. lmao you should go look through that linked list of people. makes me more comfortable with resources getting used to get Griner back when the alternative is, like, putting them after releasing the guys who tried to overthrow the venezuelan government DeadlyMuffin posted:Okay US does make a genuine effort to get back pretty much everyone. Anyone wondering this should go look at that link selec posted. If you get arrested overseas, making sure the local embassy is notified is probably the single most significant thing that can happen to get you released. The major exceptions to this are mostly arrests for really serious crimes or stuff with natsec implications. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:49
|
|
|
Rigel posted:Hopefully either Obama or Bush will be up for it if they want another photo op with a former president. Bill is now getting too old, and I don't think we want to send Trump. Though even older, there's always the apparently unsinkable Jimmy Carter!
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 03:57
|
|
|
Sub Par posted:I mean "ruling class" may be overkill but she's a multimillionare Olympic gold medalist with endorsement deals from some of the largest companies in the world, she's among the best in the world at her sport and has spent time with President Obama so in the context of "people with friends in high places", I think she counts. Beyond not being the ruling class, she's not a particularly privileged person despite her wealth and the means of which she achieved her wealth is how she got wrapped into this awful mess to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 04:02
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Yeah the chuds have made it clear that it's OK to be homophobic again after a brief trip to "maybe we are the baddies/you can't say that without getting in trouble" and they are running with it as hard as possible It's fascinating that the movement with the quickest turnaround from "Legally gently caress up [minority]" to "No, no I was always in support of [minority]" is the one they're most chomping at the bit to fight again. I assume this is the consequences of going all in on Donny, driving away the gentlemanly monsters, and being left with a base of conspiracy theorists and fundies who think Southern Baptists are liberal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 04:18
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:A lot of Griner's money specifically came from playing in Russia. Her entire net worth is less than half the average yearly NBA salary is. While WBNBA salaries are not bad compared to average joes, like any other athlete, you're always at risk of your career just ending. WNBA athletes supplement their pay which is on average less than a New York City principal's by doing tours in foreign nations. This is of course a catch-22 because it means that you're playing in the off-season, getting no break and rest, and putting yourself at a higher risk of ending your career. The money is good and very generous, but it's also necessary in a lot of ways. It's either make okay money that can dry up at a moment's notice, or go abroad to make a shitton of money. So, you have Griner, a gay woman making money in a nation that's fundings gay genocides which seems risky as is, and wouldn't you know that she's the American who they decide to essentially kidnap as a poker chip.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 05:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:51 |
|
|
At the least her fame does mean we are all talking about her and not Marc Fogel
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2022 05:21
|
|