|
Phenotype posted:I dunno, it seems pretty disrespectful to an IP if you're just tacking the name onto your own terrible story for publicity rather than try to represent anything that made the IP what it is. Yeah, I tend to fall on whether or not the people adapting a property care about engaging with the themes or setting earnestly or not. It's funny Starship Troopers came up, because I'd definitely call Verhoeven's take "disrespectful," but Verhoeven obviously understood the source text and chose to satirize it on purpose. Heinlein was a fascist and Verhoeven had something to say about that, which I'd call a pretty earnest engagement. Here, it just feels disingenuous. This story is an extremely intellectual exercise about social order and chaos, about both gradual and seismic changes to a society over generational timespans. It's not compatible with all the familiar sci-fi mysteries surrounding individual heroes or Chosen Ones or heroic destinies...special individuals are kind of anathema to the exercise, really. That's the part where it feels like the writers had some other itch they wanted to scratch, but needed to call it Foundation to trick people into watching. twistedmentat posted:AppleTV has announced they have acquired the rights to Nureomancer, so they'll probably show it the respect they showed Foundation. I'm less worried about this, because honestly Neuromancer would still look pretty commercial if adapted straight-on. Their challenge is just going to be making it feel different from all the poo poo that already ate Gibson's lunch, Blade Runner and The Matrix and so on. Otherwise, it's a mystery/thriller about sexy cyberpunk hackers evading criminals and heisting poo poo. I also wouldn't be surprised if Molly Millions is re-conceived as the protagonist, since Case is honestly pretty boring and Molly is a clear throughline to other Gibson stories (Johnny Mnemonic and Mona Lisa Overdrive) if their intent is a multi-season show.
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2022 00:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:31 |
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I'm surprised he hasn't been snatched up for an MCU or Star Wars project yet. Jared Harris in Andor 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2022 02:50
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:According to io9, Foundation has already been renewed for a third season. as was predicted
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2022 06:32
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yeah, I tend to fall on whether or not the people adapting a property care about engaging with the themes or setting earnestly or not. It's funny Starship Troopers came up, because I'd definitely call Verhoeven's take "disrespectful," but Verhoeven obviously understood the source text and chose to satirize it on purpose. Heinlein was a fascist and Verhoeven had something to say about that, which I'd call a pretty earnest engagement. This point is somewhat under-cut by Verhoeven himself stating he never managed to read Starship Troopers, but the movie turned out as great satire anyway so who are we to judge. Foundation the teevee series is fairly clearly an original story with some Asimov-names plastered on, but that story isn't really going anywhere interesting, and more importantly as you say has nothing to do with what Foundation the series of stories was about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2022 07:14
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:This point is somewhat under-cut by Verhoeven himself stating he never managed to read Starship Troopers, but the movie turned out as great satire anyway so who are we to judge. Foundation the teevee series is fairly clearly an original story with some Asimov-names plastered on, but that story isn't really going anywhere interesting, and more importantly as you say has nothing to do with what Foundation the series of stories was about. The fact that psychohistory is more mystical and less overtly deterministic doesn't mean this is fundamentally not the story of Foundation. The Foundation series isn't just the concept of psychohistory, and loving that concept up does not make this an entirely unrelated story.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2022 07:14
|
|
|
Eiba posted:The fact that psychohistory is more mystical and less overtly deterministic doesn't mean this is fundamentally not the story of Foundation. The Foundation series isn't just the concept of psychohistory, and loving that concept up does not make this an entirely unrelated story. Subverting and changing the story is perfectly fine if you do something interesting with it. They didn't - they took a popular property and glued parts of it onto a generic b-grade action-adventure.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2022 10:20
|
|
|
Eiba posted:I think people really overstate this point. The Foundation TV show is about the group of intellectuals struggling to survive on a frontier planet with a mission to rebuild the galaxy after the collapse of the galactic empire, as well as the story of the empire's collapse from the perspective of the emperor. The first half of that is the core story of the books, and the 2nd half doesn't change anything. If you greatly simplify the story to "people on a frontier planet living through collapse" then yeah this TV show is Foundation. The same way as "People in space on spaceships in an alliance" would qualify Battlestar Galactica as Star Trek. Xealot posted:Here, it just feels disingenuous. This story is an extremely intellectual exercise about social order and chaos, about both gradual and seismic changes to a society over generational timespans. It's not compatible with all the familiar sci-fi mysteries surrounding individual heroes or Chosen Ones or heroic destinies...special individuals are kind of anathema to the exercise, really. That's the part where it feels like the writers had some other itch they wanted to scratch, but needed to call it Foundation to trick people into watching. Exactly. Not only is Seldon immortal now there is perfect stasis available to everyone to travel around a few centuries at a time so we have Chosen One Heroes from Trantor and the original expedition hanging around throughout time. Seldon no longer laid out a series of dictates and predictions to be played in a theater to carefully guide humanity with as little information as possible he is a hologram that hangs out and watches everything and reacts in real time with periodic updates after walking out of his weird space coffin. Psychohistory is now both some special magical thing and also completely pointless as he is checking his math forever. The fear and the hope implied by the people in the written story at relying on these ancient tapes is replaced with everyone wondering when Seldon is going to show up and comment on what's happening then tell them what they should do since he made a good series of guesses he can babysit through time. So not only do they completely ignore the premise and turn it into the most simple elements of "predicted change over time + Fall of an Empire" and do it shittily they ignore a huge part of the series which was exploring how a society that had developed for centuries on these blind predictions specifically to change 40,000 years of human history would deal with the aberrant individual factor Seldon couldn't have predicted with the Mule being a genetic mutant and psychic. Now his plan depends on several psychics he totally accounted for with Magic and if one dies or is unavailable The Universe Creates Another as the Magical Math says there will be one there at that time. It's completely different and it's not good. It definitely does seem like it's entirely due to wanting to focus on a set of Chosen One Protagonists in a setting that was an Human Species Anthology over tens of Millenia. Now they have to be immortal and travel forward through time at will even if this completely dismantles the entire premise. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Dec 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2022 12:33
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOHfbDnkPEI Just Write just published an analysis of the show, which also reveals which Asimov adaptation most faithfully adapted his work. The last 15 minutes are amazing.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 08:04
|
|
|
Bicentennial Man is the closest thing to a real Asimov story. I, Robot was an abomination
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 12:43
|
|
|
I just finished reading the first three books of Foundation, and I still think the show was good. It differs so much that it felt like I wasn't spoiled from reading the books. They differ so greately that I can't say whether one is better than the other, but both the books and the show were equally entertaining and gripping.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 20:35
|
|
|
I feel like I'm being trolled.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 20:51
|
|
|
Charles 1998 posted:I just finished reading the first three books of Foundation, and I still think the show was good. It differs so much that it felt like I wasn't spoiled from reading the books. They differ so greately that I can't say whether one is better than the other, but both the books and the show were equally entertaining and gripping. David Goyer alt spotted man of steel loving sucked by the way
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 Nice to see even Seldon gets some hand to hand fights this season! loving finally. It always pissed me off in the original 3 books that Seldon never got an action scene.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 20:07
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 I am gonna hate watch the poo poo out of this season
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 20:21
|
|
|
Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I am gonna hate watch this poo poo season Fixed
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:49
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 Someone never read forward the foundation. I'm pretty sure he hits some guy with a cane in that one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
ikanreed posted:Someone never read forward the foundation. I'm pretty sure he hits some guy with a cane in that one. Wish that someone was me. Much like Dune, only read the first three.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
oh god Im pissed off about that stupid warp capable space pod again. The Galactic Empire was supposed to have huge bulky technology, its not going to be impressive when the Foundation miniaturizes stuff if you let the old empire have all this cool tech 
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:25
|
|
ikanreed posted:Someone never read forward the foundation. I'm pretty sure he hits some guy with a cane in that one. In Prelude to Foundation, Seldon is revealed to be an expert in the martial art of Heliconian Twisting, which he uses to dispatch a thug send to kidnap him. Helicon, his birth planet, was famous for its martial arts. Prelude to Foundation posted:“Here, Marbie, “ said Alem with a growl. “You take care of that other SimonChris fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 8, 2023 |
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:51
|
|
|
ikanreed posted:Someone never read forward the foundation. I'm pretty sure he hits some guy with a cane in that one. lol, i remember something in... god i don't even know which book, it was like 20 years ago i read it, where seldon is in the body of a cheetaman ape thing having a fencing duel with another cheetaman using sticks. I hope that ends up in a season of this show. Foundation is very much "you should read the first 3 books, they're a fun time", "well if you enjoyed that the sequel books are ok", "i mean if you're bored and want more read the prequels I guess?", "oh, well if you're a masochist read the authorized by his estate books i guess"
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:57
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 Yes, I can see that almost every scene in that teaser is action. I'm also aware that that's just how teasers work. It's difficult to have a "holy poo poo!" half second scene of a religious conflict... but they squeezed one in there anyway, which is why I chose to believe this bodes well. Rutibex posted:oh god Im pissed off about that stupid warp capable space pod again. The Galactic Empire was supposed to have huge bulky technology, its not going to be impressive when the Foundation miniaturizes stuff if you let the old empire have all this cool tech Honestly I'm hoping they deviate more from the books. Their best stuff was original content, and the worst was when they tried to bloat the cute sociological logic puzzle story of the novel into a meandering hero's quest action adventure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:03
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:lol, i remember something in... god i don't even know which book, it was like 20 years ago i read it, where seldon is in the body of a cheetaman ape thing having a fencing duel with another cheetaman using sticks. I’m not positive, but that sounds like one of the Foundation prequels written by other authors in the late 90s after Asimov died. I remember some really weird stuff in those, like a Matrix-like computer system and a planet of clockwork robots.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:33
|
|
|
The action doesn't bother me, watching a show of people just talking to each other would be boring, but looks like there's more Chosen One stuff in it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:35
|
|
|
Episode 1 opens with a flashback of The Huntress stumbling on the "make a magic exact copy of the person's brain and put it into a sentient hologram" port on the monolith and she becomes the immortal recurring antagonist for every season, loving everything up and having terrible ideas while sneering about how much more skilled and talented she is than everybody.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:I’m not positive, but that sounds like one of the Foundation prequels written by other authors in the late 90s after Asimov died. I remember some really weird stuff in those, like a Matrix-like computer system and a planet of clockwork robots. I'm okay with all of Asimov's Foundation books, though I admit the later ones aren't anywhere near as good as the original three. But when I tried to read one of those "authorized by the estate of Asimov" books by other authors, I think I got two chapters in before I gave up. Absolutely nothing felt right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:I'm okay with all of Asimov's Foundation books, though I admit the later ones aren't anywhere near as good as the original three. But when I tried to read one of those "authorized by the estate of Asimov" books by other authors, I think I got two chapters in before I gave up. Absolutely nothing felt right. the true sequel to Foundation is Warhammer 40k
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 01:25
|
|
|
gently caress this stupid rear end fuckin show. I'm going to watch this next season but I'm not gonna be happy about it!
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 01:34
|
|
|
Trailer was boring, I turned it off halfway through No apple tv plus pro renewal for me
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 02:32
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:lol, i remember something in... god i don't even know which book, it was like 20 years ago i read it, where seldon is in the body of a cheetaman ape thing having a fencing duel with another cheetaman using sticks. The second estate-authorized book was good, but it was dragged down by the references to things from the first estate-authorized book I didn't read galenanorth fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jan 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 02:38
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:the true sequel to Foundation is Warhammer 40k In the glass cubicle, the image of the gray-haired, wizened man in a wheelchair sighed heavily. "I am Hari Seldon," he began simply. "With the successful conclusion of this most recent Crisis, you of the Foundation are now one quarter of the way to forming the inevitable Second Empire. But I regret to inform you that that Empire, once founded, will only last about six months. Call it a year, tops. After that comes total chaos and never-ending warfare. In the grim darkness of the far future," Seldon intoned, "there is only war."
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 02:40
|
|
|
MarcusSA posted:gently caress this stupid rear end fuckin show. Foundation: gently caress this stupid rear end fuckin show
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 03:53
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:The action doesn't bother me, watching a show of people just talking to each other would be boring, but looks like there's more Chosen One stuff in it. Not that I don't like action, I love a good action scene or film, and even agree theres places you could add some pizzaz in the original story when adapting it (the whole end of the second story in the books could have been actiony just fine), but I'll never understand the mindset of "people just talking would be boring". My Dinner with Andre is an absolutely captivating film thats just 2 people talking over dinner, The Man From Earth is an absolutely captivating film thats just a group of people sitting around talking in a room, heck 90% of something like even The Wire is people sitting around talking. People sitting around talking can be the most engrossing thing if you write it well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 04:04
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWT-t7AS74 gently caress id forgotten how bad the narration is
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:Not that I don't like action, I love a good action scene or film, and even agree theres places you could add some pizzaz in the original story when adapting it (the whole end of the second story in the books could have been actiony just fine), but I'll never understand the mindset of "people just talking would be boring". My Dinner with Andre is an absolutely captivating film thats just 2 people talking over dinner, The Man From Earth is an absolutely captivating film thats just a group of people sitting around talking in a room, heck 90% of something like even The Wire is people sitting around talking. 12 Angry Men is nothing but and it is riveting
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 05:37
|
|
|
gently caress it i watched Under The Dome I can watch this
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 05:40
|
|
|
The trailer had a very angry space doggo in it. I'm... Conflicted. I mean this won't have anything to do with Foundation other than the names at this point, but I'll watch the adventures of Paces, Lee as they try to defeat the immortal hologram of Space Gandalf, I mean Seldon. And maybe they'll even kick-start the Actual Antagonist From The Books story-line this season, too! They could (BOOK STUFF) take the deception about his physical appearance at face value, that'd really crown the "interpretations" this series has been doing  Also, shout-out to The Man From Earth, I watched that again just recently and that's a great little movie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 05:42
|
|
|
Look, I'm happy to watch more of the show tbh. Some of last season was crap, but I'm really not keen to see the thread turn into something super hostile to moderate or positive opinions, which is my concern going forward. Even if it's not accurate to the book, this show could easily turn things around and be entertaining in its own right. I'd be perfectly happy if that happened.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 05:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:31 |
|
|
For me, where it becomes ~disrespectful~ is where pretty much everything having to do with the actual source material is absolutely farcical and seems purposefully made to undermine the themes and narrative of the original work while schizophrenically adhering to the original's story beats. Love My Three Cleons, though. I would have really liked whatever show that was before someone thought to Frankenstein Asimov onto the script.  Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:There is an author named Jack McDevitt who is still cranking out the very milquetoast 40's/50's/60's sci-fi of people in flowing robes pressing buttons on giant computers before they hop into capsules that hyperspace them across the galaxy but he's in no way as popular as your Expanse or your Andy Weir books I remember liking A Talent for War and thinking it had some neat concepts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 06:11
|
|
