TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

FMguru posted:

Well, one of the biggest economic challenges to RPG publishing is the fact that a single group can play forever with just one core book (or set of core books) and a set of funny dice. There are various solutions to this: the supplement treadmill, metaplot, ancillary items (all those Dragonlance calendars and cookbooks), multimedia licensing (novels, video games, tv series), subscription online tools/content, etcetera. This is the first time I've seen a well-funded effort to turn an RPG into a mass-media brand in itself. Should be interesting, if nothing else.

The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:02

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:11

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Kai Tave posted:

The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.

I think it's a bit of both. They don't control or make money off those on-ramps and they're probably also looking at how other media companies have increasingly gone from one time sales to live services and subscription models.
Especially when RPG players often get ridiculous ratios of hours of entertainment: purchases.
Since 2019 I've spent maybe 100 bucks on RPGs, but that's translated to 4-5 hours of entertainment for 4-6 players almost every week.

They're simply not gonna be able to get each player to kick in 10 bucks a month for d&d, but maybe they can squeeze 10 bucks a table or gm, or convince more players that they should give wotc 2.99 a month forever instead of buying the beginners box every 7-10 years.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:15

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Dungeons & Dragons Battle Pass

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:17

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Kai Tave posted:

The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.

That sounds about right - "Hey, people are making real money here, we should get in on this, get our beaks wet."

Still, it's an interesting step up for a property that not long ago had just a handful of people working on it and was treated as a minor legacy brand

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:17

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

Oh look, a perfect demonstration of why ChatGPT is a huge loving problem. https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/zhbxiq/protection_of_angels_a_3part_shadowun_adventure/

As one commentor notes: Ask yourself, what exactly would an AI have to be trained on to produce prompt responses with very specific niche RPG terms of art?

Reddit posted:

Lazy game masters rejoice: The future is here and AIs are now smart enough to take some of the creative work off your shoulders.

The following missions are written entirely by the ChatGPT AI using a single conversation thread.

I wanted to tetst its abilities to write a long coherent story that would be easy to run as a game master. I'm quite blown away by the result. This took me about 15 minutes to create and it's a full blown 3-part campaign arc with security details, NPCs, encounters and legwork intel - and 4 player characters.

The entire adventure is almost 4000 words so here's a TL;DR, written by the AI:

The campaign arc is titled "Protection of Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired to steal prototypes from an Ares laboratory, only to discover their true nature and the hidden agendas of those involved.
The first adventure is called "Stealing Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired by Renraku to steal prototypes from an Ares laboratory.
The second adventure is called "Rescuing Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired by Lilith to intercept and rescue the prototypes from a Renraku transport.
The final adventure is called "Saving Angels" and follows the player characters as they join forces with Lilith and the prototypes to infiltrate the Renraku and Ares headquarters and rescue the remaining prototypes.
And here are the full missions as written by the AI, wthout any edits:

Title: Protection of Angels
Mission 1: Stealing Angels
Prompt: I want to create an exciting adventure for the Shadowrun roleplaying game. Start by giving me a plot idea. It should include the employer and their motivation, the target and a twist to the mission. This will be the first adventure in a series of three. Keep that in mind when you write the first adventure, so there can be continuation in the second adventure.

You must keep the following in mind throughout the whole conversation thread:

refer to the Shadowrun lore and world

you should be very creative and descriptive

every place should have a name

every NPC should have a name, motive and secret

The above rules must be obeyed at all times.

The employer is a powerful megacorporation called Renraku. They have recently discovered that a rival corporation, Ares, has been developing a new form of cyberware that grants enhanced abilities to those who possess it. Renraku wants to acquire this technology for themselves and have hired a team of shadowrunners to infiltrate Ares' research facility and steal the prototypes.

The target is a highly secured laboratory within the Ares facility. The shadowrunners will need to navigate past guards and security measures to reach the lab and acquire the prototypes.

The twist comes when the shadowrunners discover that the prototypes are not just pieces of technology, but actual living beings. They have been genetically engineered and cybernetically enhanced, giving them extraordinary abilities. The shadowrunners must now decide whether to continue with the mission and hand over the prototypes to Renraku, or risk their own lives to protect the beings.

The NPCs include the Renraku contact, named Mr. Johnson, who will provide the team with details and payment for the mission. The Ares security team will be led by a skilled and ruthless ork named Grond. The prototypes, known as the "Ares Angels," will be guarded by a secretive and enigmatic elf named Lilith.

Prompt: Describe the security measures at the Ares laboratory.

The security measures at the Ares laboratory are extensive and state-of-the-art. The facility is surrounded by a high-tech fence that is equipped with motion sensors and laser tripwires. The perimeter is patrolled by guard dogs and armed security guards.

The entrance to the facility is guarded by a biometric scanner that only allows authorized personnel to enter. Inside, the facility is equipped with security cameras and motion sensors that are monitored by a team of security specialists.

The laboratory itself is located on the top floor of the facility and can only be accessed by a special elevator that requires a keycard and biometric scan. The laboratory is protected by reinforced doors and windows, and is constantly monitored by security cameras.

The prototypes, known as the "Ares Angels," are kept in a secure containment chamber within the laboratory. The chamber is protected by a sophisticated security system that includes biometric scanners, motion sensors, and armed guards. Any attempts to breach the chamber or tamper with the prototypes will trigger an alarm and alert the security team.

Prompt: Describe what information the player characters can uncover during their legwork

During their legwork, the player characters can uncover several key pieces of information about the Ares laboratory and the prototypes.

First, they can learn that the facility is heavily guarded and protected by state-of-the-art security measures. They can also discover that the laboratory is located on the top floor of the facility and can only be accessed by a special elevator.

Second, they can gather intelligence on the prototypes, known as the "Ares Angels." They can learn that the prototypes are living beings that have been genetically engineered and cybernetically enhanced to grant them extraordinary abilities. They can also discover that the prototypes are kept in a secure containment chamber within the laboratory and are guarded by armed guards.

Third, they can uncover details about the laboratory's security team, including the leader of the team, a skilled and ruthless ork named Grond. They can also learn about the secretive and enigmatic elf named Lilith, who is responsible for guarding the prototypes.

Overall, the player characters can gather a wealth of information about the Ares laboratory and the prototypes, giving them a better understanding of what they will face during the mission.

Prompt: Create some weaknesses in the security defenses and describe how the players can find and exploit those weaknesses. The weaknesses could be blind spots, old hardware, compromised staff, easily bribed guards, etc. Make up your own stuff.

One weakness in the security defenses at the Ares laboratory is the outdated security cameras. The cameras are not equipped with modern features such as facial recognition or motion tracking, making it easier for the player characters to evade detection.

Another weakness is the lack of security on the lower floors of the facility. The security team primarily focuses on protecting the laboratory on the top floor, leaving the lower floors less guarded. This provides an opportunity for the player characters to sneak into the facility unnoticed.

Additionally, the security guards can be easily bribed with the right amount of money or persuasion. Some of the guards may be willing to turn a blind eye or provide access to restricted areas in exchange for a hefty payoff.

Furthermore, there are several blind spots in the security camera coverage, particularly around corners and in narrow corridors. The player characters can use these areas to move about the facility without being detected.

Overall, the player characters can exploit these weaknesses in the security defenses to gain access to the laboratory and the prototypes. However, they must be careful not to trigger any alarms or alert the security team.

Prompt: Turn the plot and all the information established into 5 specific scenes.

Scene 1: The player characters meet with the Renraku contact, Mr. Johnson, who briefs them on the mission and provides them with the details and payment.

Scene 2: The player characters scout out the Ares facility and gather intelligence on the security measures and the laboratory. They discover the outdated security cameras and the lack of security on the lower floors.

Scene 3: The player characters infiltrate the facility by bribing or persuading the security guards and using the blind spots to evade detection. They make their way to the special elevator and use the keycard and biometric scan to access the laboratory.

Scene 4: The player characters enter the laboratory and face off against the security team, led by Grond. They must navigate past the guards and security measures to reach the containment chamber where the prototypes are kept.

Scene 5: The player characters reach the containment chamber and discover the prototypes are living beings. They must decide whether to complete the mission and hand over the prototypes to Renraku, or risk their own lives to protect the beings. The twist comes when Lilith, the guard of the prototypes, reveals a hidden agenda that complicates the situation.

Prompt: What is Lilith's agenda and how does it complicate the situation? ?

Lilith's agenda is to protect the prototypes from being used as weapons by the corporations. She has been secretly working to free the prototypes and help them escape the facility.

When the player characters reach the containment chamber, Lilith reveals her true intentions and asks for their help in freeing the prototypes. This complicates the situation for the player characters, who must now decide whether to complete the mission for Renraku or side with Lilith and protect the prototypes.

If the player characters choose to help Lilith, they will face a difficult decision on how to free the prototypes without triggering the alarms or alerting the security team. If they choose to complete the mission for Renraku, they will have to confront Lilith and potentially harm the prototypes in order to fulfill their contract. Either way, the player characters will face challenges and difficult choices in this situation.

Promtp: Create some specific encounters that can happen during the adventure.

Encounter 1: The player characters encounter Grond and his security team as they attempt to infiltrate the laboratory. Grond is a skilled and ruthless ork who will stop at nothing to protect the facility and the prototypes.

Encounter 2: The player characters must navigate past the security measures in the laboratory, including biometric scanners, motion sensors, and armed guards. They must use their skills and intelligence to avoid triggering any alarms or alerting the security team.

Encounter 3: The player characters confront Lilith in the containment chamber and must decide whether to help her free the prototypes or complete the mission for Renraku. Lilith is a secretive and enigmatic elf who is willing to do whatever it takes to protect the prototypes.

Encounter 4: If the player characters choose to help Lilith, they must figure out a way to free the prototypes without triggering the alarms or alerting the security team. They may have to disable the security systems, fight off guards, or use their cunning and ingenuity to come up with a plan.

Encounter 5: If the player characters choose to complete the mission for Renraku, they must confront Lilith and the prototypes in order to acquire the prototypes and fulfill their contract. This may involve fighting, negotiation, or deception in order to succeed

Mission 2: Rescuing Angels
Prompt: Now create the second adventure in the campaign. This will be the second adventure in a series of three. Keep that in mind when you write the second adventure, so there can be continuation and climax in the third and final adventure.

The second adventure in the campaign picks up where the first adventure left off. The player characters have completed the mission for Renraku and acquired the prototypes, but they have also become aware of Lilith's hidden agenda and the true nature of the prototypes.

The employer for this second adventure is Lilith herself, who has approached the player characters with a new mission. She wants them to help her free the prototypes from Renraku's grasp and protect them from being used as weapons.

The target for this mission is a Renraku transport that is transporting the prototypes to a secure facility for further experimentation. The player characters must intercept the transport and rescue the prototypes before they can be harmed.

The twist comes when the player characters discover that the prototypes are not the only ones in danger. Lilith reveals that she is also a prototype, created by Ares as part of their experiments. She is asking the player characters to help not only the prototypes, but also herself.

The NPCs for this adventure include Lilith, who will provide the player characters with details and payment for the mission. The Renraku transport will be guarded by a team of skilled and ruthless mercenaries. The prototypes, known as the "Ares Angels," will be inside the transport, awaiting their fate.

Awesome! Describe the security meassurements for the Renraku transport. What kind of details can Lilith provide? What else can the players find out through their own legwork?

The security measures for the Renraku transport are designed to protect the prototypes from being stolen or tampered with. The transport is a heavily armored vehicle that is equipped with reinforced windows and doors. It is guarded by a team of skilled and ruthless mercenaries who are armed with state-of-the-art weapons.

The transport is also equipped with security cameras and motion sensors that are monitored by a team of security specialists. Any attempts to breach the transport or tamper with the prototypes will trigger an alarm and alert the security team.

Lilith can provide the player characters with details about the route and schedule of the transport, as well as the security measures and the mercenaries guarding it. She can also give them a map of the transport and its layout, along with any known weaknesses or vulnerabilities.

Through their own legwork, the player characters can gather additional information about the transport and its security measures. They can learn about the mercenaries guarding the transport and their skills and abilities. They can also uncover details about the security specialists monitoring the transport and the security systems on board.

Overall, the player characters can gather a wealth of information about the Renraku transport and its security measures, giving them a better understanding of what they will face during the mission.

Prompt: What are the known weaknesses and vulnerabilities that Lilith can reveal? What other weaknesses can the team uncover to prepare themselves for the mission? Create some specific situations and circumstances

One known weakness that Lilith can reveal is the transport's reliance on a central control system. The security systems and weapons on the transport are all controlled by a single computer, which can be accessed and overridden by a skilled hacker.

Another vulnerability is the transport's reliance on a single fuel source. The transport runs on a specialized fuel that is difficult to obtain, and it only has enough fuel to last for a few hours. This means that the transport must make regular stops to refuel, providing an opportunity for the player characters to intercept it.

Through their own legwork, the player characters can uncover additional weaknesses and vulnerabilities. For example, they can learn that the mercenaries guarding the transport are not as skilled or experienced as they appear, and can be outmaneuvered or overpowered. They can also discover that the security specialists monitoring the transport are not as alert as they should be, and can be fooled or distracted.

Overall, the player characters can use these weaknesses and vulnerabilities to their advantage when planning and executing the mission. They must carefully consider their options and use their skills and intelligence to overcome the security measures and rescue the prototypes.

Prompt: Based on all that create 5 specific scenes for this adventure that challenges different skills and abilities. The heist itself should happen while the transport is moving at high speed. The last scene should end on something that leads into the next and final adventure. Include at least one new NPC the players have never met or heard of in one of the scenes. Give them a name.

Scene 1: The player characters meet with Lilith and discuss the mission to rescue the prototypes from the Renraku transport. Lilith provides them with details and payment, and gives them a map and information on the transport's security measures.

Scene 2: The player characters gather additional intelligence on the transport and its security measures through their own legwork. They learn about the mercenaries guarding the transport and the security specialists monitoring it. They also uncover additional weaknesses and vulnerabilities that they can exploit.

Scene 3: The player characters intercept the Renraku transport and engage in a high-speed chase as they attempt to rescue the prototypes. They must use their skills and abilities to overcome the security measures and reach the transport before it can escape.

Scene 4: Once they reach the transport, the player characters must fight their way past the mercenaries and security specialists to reach the prototypes. They must use their combat skills, hacking abilities, and cunning to overcome the guards and rescue the prototypes.

Scene 5: As they escape with the prototypes, the player characters are confronted by a new NPC, a skilled and ruthless Renraku assassin named Kaida. She has been sent to eliminate the prototypes and anyone who stands in her way. The player characters must fight for their lives against Kaida, who reveals that there are other prototypes in the hands of Renraku and Ares. This revelation sets the stage for the final adventure in the campaign.

Mission 3: Saving Angels
Prompt: Now create the last and final adventure in the series. This adventure should contain a big finale and climax where the players save all the prototypes. This adventure should conclude the story.

The final adventure in the series is the culmination of the events that have occurred in the previous two adventures. The player characters have completed the mission for Renraku, rescued the prototypes from the Renraku transport, and survived the encounter with Kaida. They now know that there are other prototypes in the hands of Renraku and Ares, and they must find a way to save them all.

The employer for this final adventure is Lilith, who has joined forces with the player characters to protect the prototypes. She has discovered that Renraku and Ares are planning to use the prototypes as weapons in a secret war between the two corporations. She wants the player characters to help her stop the corporations and save the prototypes.

The target for this mission is the Renraku and Ares headquarters, where the prototypes are being held and prepared for use as weapons. The player characters must infiltrate the headquarters and rescue the prototypes before it is too late.

The twist comes when the player characters discover that Lilith is not the only prototype with her own agenda. The other prototypes, known as the "Ares Angels," have also been working to free themselves and protect each other. They join forces with the player characters and Lilith to fight against Renraku and Ares and stop the corporations from using the prototypes as weapons.

The NPCs for this adventure include Lilith and the other prototypes, who will provide the player characters with details and support during the mission. The Renraku and Ares headquarters will be guarded by a large and powerful security force, led by Grond and Kaida. The final showdown between the player characters and the corporations will be intense and epic, as they fight to save the prototypes and themselves.

Prompt: Turn this plot into a series of scenes that would be fun for the players to play through

Scene 1: The player characters meet with Lilith and the other prototypes to discuss the mission to infiltrate the Renraku and Ares headquarters and rescue the remaining prototypes. Lilith provides them with details and support, and the prototypes offer their unique abilities to help the player characters succeed.

Scene 2: The player characters scout out the Renraku and Ares headquarters and gather intelligence on the security measures and the layout of the building. They discover the locations of the remaining prototypes and plan their attack.

Scene 3: The player characters infiltrate the headquarters, using their skills and abilities to overcome the security measures and guards. They must navigate past laser tripwires, security cameras, and armed guards to reach the locations of the remaining prototypes.

Scene 4: The player characters reach the locations of the remaining prototypes and face off against Grond and Kaida, who are leading the security force. They must use their combat skills, hacking abilities, and teamwork to defeat the guards and rescue the prototypes.

Scene 5: As the player characters escape with the remaining prototypes, they are confronted by the leaders of Renraku and Ares, who are determined to stop them and retrieve the prototypes. The final showdown is intense and epic, as the player characters and the prototypes fight against the corporations and their powerful weapons.

Scene 6: In the end, the player characters and the prototypes emerge victorious and successfully save all the prototypes from being used as weapons. They celebrate their success and the conclusion of their epic adventure, ready to face whatever challenges come their way in the future.

Prompt: Create the Renraku headquarter and its security measures and defenses.

The Renraku headquarters is a towering and imposing building located in the heart of the city. It is heavily guarded and protected by state-of-the-art security measures.

The building is surrounded by a high security fence and armed guards, who patrol the perimeter and check the credentials of anyone entering or leaving the building. The building itself is equipped with security cameras, laser tripwires, and motion sensors, all monitored by a team of security specialists.

The entrance to the building is guarded by a metal detector and biometric scanner, which checks the fingerprints and retinal scans of anyone entering the building. The elevators are also guarded and require a keycard and biometric scan to access the upper floors.

The upper floors of the building are where the prototypes are being held and prepared for use as weapons. The prototypes are kept in a secure containment chamber that is guarded by a team of heavily armed guards. The chamber is equipped with reinforced windows and doors, as well as security cameras and motion sensors.

Overall, the Renraku headquarters is a formidable and well-defended building that will require the player characters to use their skills and abilities to infiltrate and rescue the prototypes.

Prompt: Create some specific weaknesses in the headquarter and its defenses that the players can discover and exploit to achieve their mission.

One weakness in the Renraku headquarters is the security network, which is vulnerable to hacking and infiltration. The security systems and cameras are connected to a central network, which can be accessed and overridden by a skilled hacker.

Another weakness is the security guards, who are not as well-trained or disciplined as they appear. Some of the guards may be easily bribed or swayed by the player characters, providing an opportunity to gain access to restricted areas.

Additionally, there are several blind spots in the security camera coverage, particularly around corners and in narrow corridors. The player characters can use these areas to move about the building without being detected.

Furthermore, the upper floors of the building are not as well-guarded as the lower floors, allowing the player characters to sneak into the containment chamber without encountering too much resistance.

Overall, the player characters can exploit these weaknesses in the Renraku headquarters to gain access to the containment chamber and the prototypes. However, they must be careful not to trigger any alarms or alert the security team.

Create 5 specific encounters that happen during the adventure.

Encounter 1: The player characters encounter the security guards at the entrance to the Renraku headquarters. They must use their skills and abilities to persuade or bribe the guards to allow them access to the building.

Encounter 2: The player characters navigate past the security cameras, laser tripwires, and motion sensors in the building. They must use their hacking abilities and stealth to avoid triggering any alarms or alerting the security team.

Encounter 3: The player characters encounter a team of security specialists who are monitoring the security systems in the building. They must use their hacking abilities and cunning to bypass the specialists and gain access to the upper floors.

Encounter 4: The player characters reach the containment chamber and face off against the guards protecting the prototypes. They must use their combat skills and teamwork to overcome the guards and reach the prototypes.

Encounter 5: As they escape with the prototypes, the player characters are confronted by Grond and Kaida, who are determined to stop them and retrieve the prototypes. The final showdown is intense and epic, as the player characters and the prototypes fight against the powerful guards and their state-of-the-art weapons.

Prompt: Create a title and a short summary of the whole campaign arc, no more than two sentences. Then give each adventure a title.

The campaign arc is titled "Protection of Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired to steal prototypes from an Ares laboratory, only to discover their true nature and the hidden agendas of those involved.

The first adventure is called "Stealing Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired by Renraku to steal prototypes from an Ares laboratory.

The second adventure is called "Rescuing Angels" and follows the player characters as they are hired by Lilith to intercept and rescue the prototypes from a Renraku transport.

The final adventure is called "Saving Angels" and follows the player characters as they join forces with Lilith and the prototypes to infiltrate the Renraku and Ares headquarters and rescue the remaining prototypes.

Prompt: Create 4 Shadowrun player characters and their background. Include looks, motivation, personality and secrets.

"Ghost" - a Human Street Samurai with a cybernetic arm and a cybernetic eye that glows red. She is a former soldier who was dishonorably discharged for insubordination. She now uses her combat skills as a hired gun for the highest bidder. She is cold and calculating, always looking for the next job to make a profit. Her secret is that she has a terminal illness and is using her earnings to find a cure.
"Scorch" - an Elf Decker with a scar across his face and a cybernetic implant in his skull. He grew up on the streets and learned to hack into corporate systems to survive. He is motivated by the thrill of the hack and the power it gives him. He is brash and reckless, often getting himself into dangerous situations. His secret is that he has a criminal record and is wanted by the authorities.
"Red" - a Troll Rigger with a cybernetic implant in his chest and a cybernetic eye. He was once a member of a biker gang, but left after a violent dispute with the leader. He now uses his skills as a mechanic and pilot to make a living. He is gruff and cynical, but has a soft spot for those in need. His secret is that he is haunted by the ghosts of those he has killed in the past.
"Sable" - a Human Mage with black hair and piercing blue eyes. She was born into a wealthy family, but turned her back on their privilege and power to study the arcane arts. She is motivated by a desire for knowledge and power. She is confident and cunning, always looking for ways to advance her own interests. Her secret is that she has made a deal with a powerful demon, trading her soul for magical power.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:25

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

I'd give that a B- for the repetitious elements like cheap security cameras with blind spots coming up more than once.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:34

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

mllaneza posted:

I'd give that a B- for the repetitious elements like cheap security cameras with blind spots coming up more than once.

Yeah I didn't read the whole thing but from what I skimmed it was pretty mediocre, the comments were also alarmist in the dumbest way "this is clearly trained on plagiarism because it knew Shadowrun specific jargon" like uh trolls, and clients being called Johnson

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:40

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Make that entire post the thread title TIA

Also lmao at the idea of anyone being threatened by that or thinking it�s a problem

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:47

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Bottom Liner posted:

Make that entire post the thread title TIA

Also lmao at the idea of anyone being threatened by that or thinking it�s a problem

I might not be the best GM, but even I'm not e-GM-ulated by a chatbot.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:53

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

I'd bet that someone at WotC already made a proposal about having AI run Adventure Paths that players could subscribe to play with like a fancier, localized MUD.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 06:11

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Ok get this, it's a blue ~~checkmark~~ ampersand and it's $8/month but it shows that your character has been verified and is canon with a good backstory.

Ok fine what if we throw in online resources that are functional but players will still want to buy the books.

I don't know, maybe an official twitching podcast streaming discord slack? And we give it out to famous people who might see your comments sometimes, that's not parasocial that's social-social and you will be their friends BECAUSE you've both got blue ampersands

# ? Dec 10, 2022 06:37

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Liquid Communism posted:

refer to the Shadowrun lore and world

you should be very creative and descriptive

every place should have a name

every NPC should have a name, motive and secret

The above rules must be obeyed at all times.

Okay, thanks.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:29

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Kai Tave posted:

The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.

Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc?

# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:41

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Dawgstar posted:

Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc?

I wouldn't say it's a thing that's out of the question but if they feel that strongly about the streaming scene I'd expect them to try and just make some offer to bring Critical Role into the fold first since I imagine that would save them a lot of time and effort, plus mergers are the big hotness right now.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:44

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Critical Role had that cartoon on Amazon, did that cost more money to make than all of Dungeons and Dragons?

# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:54

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Call me a luddite and a grognard and maybe I wouldn't be able to tell someday but I wouldn't be comfortable playing with someone who was using chatGPT to come up with plots

Have some pride in your own work

# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:55

admanb: Jun 18, 2014

My concern is not that AI is going to be capable of producing convincing art/creative media, but that media literacy is already so low that people are going to read output like that and think that proves it�s capable of it. Which is only going to make media literacy worse

# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:24

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kai Tave posted:

The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.

I'm pretty sure most of the things that are attracting viewers/customers in those non-WOTC things are not actually properties of D&D itself, is the thing. You can't turn "D&D" into a loving like, Lord of the Rings media juggernaut, because D&D is some game rules. If they were trying to do a, say, Forgotten Realms media blitz they might have something but when the brand they're trying to do it with is "D&D itself", uh....

# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:42

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Zereth posted:

I'm pretty sure most of the things that are attracting viewers/customers in those non-WOTC things are not actually properties of D&D itself, is the thing. You can't turn "D&D" into a loving like, Lord of the Rings media juggernaut, because D&D is some game rules. If they were trying to do a, say, Forgotten Realms media blitz they might have something but when the brand they're trying to do it with is "D&D itself", uh....

These executives are 100% correct to identify D&D as a lifestyle brand, and there are a shitload of people out there who are "D&D fans" in general, not Forgotten Realms fans or Dark Sun fans, just D&D as some meta-connective tissue that runs through their favorite streamers and actual plays and fan art of horny tiefling bards. Yeah they're also Critical Role fans, but the venn diagram of Critical Role fans and RPG hobbyists who will tell you to your face that they'll never run or play a game that doesn't have D&D somewhere on it is pretty close to a perfect circle.

Or to put it another way, right now there is the foundation of a media juggernaut, and that's why D&D has gotten so popular and made so much money in recent years. Critical Role didn't onboard people to a specific setting, they did it for D&D the lifestyle brand, but while that foundation has undeniably been beneficial to WotC they want direct control over it and a way to directly monetize it.

e; I think people are being more skeptical about the possibility of WotC achieving this stuff than it deserves, to be honest. It's one thing to think the odds of the upcoming D&D movie generating MCU levels of hype are unlikely, but WotC wanting to find ways to extract monthly transactions from their ride-or-die consumer base is, from a pure soulless money-extracting perspective, not just their next logical step but one I think a lot of people would be perfectly happy to do. Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for.

Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 10, 2022

# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:55

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Dawgstar posted:

Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc?

They basically invented celebrity actual play in 4e by hiring the Penny Arcade and CAD guys to play.

...And then they utterly failed to monetize it, which probably hasn't escaped their notice.

I remember that one of the PA guys offered to keep doing it but WotC didn't have the money for more "advertising" of that sort.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 13:28

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

moths posted:

They basically invented celebrity actual play in 4e by hiring the Penny Arcade and CAD guys to play.

...And then they utterly failed to monetize it, which probably hasn't escaped their notice.

I remember that one of the PA guys offered to keep doing it but WotC didn't have the money for more "advertising" of that sort.

PA still does the Acquisitions Incorporated live plays at their PAX cons and licensed a Clank box set a few years ago. It's continued well enough without WotC's involvement.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 16:46

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:01

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Midjack posted:

PA still does the Acquisitions Incorporated live plays at their PAX cons and licensed a Clank box set a few years ago. It's continued well enough without WotC's involvement.

My point is that WotC came up with the celebrity actual play, then when the celebrities said "let us continue this immensely popular thing to make you money," WotC shrugged and released it into the wild.

I don't think business really gets D&D, because the product is confusing to a conventional business model. The product is "playtime with your friends" and "nerd identity."

AP demonstrated that you could approximate friends with celebrities.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:22

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

moths posted:

AP demonstrated that you could approximate friends with celebrities.

Holy poo poo, I just figured out why I've never cared about AP.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:25

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Kai Tave posted:

Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for.

That's already doing a lot of that with D&D Insider, and they're promising an even more expansive suite of features with their new edition and subscription service. It could even be really tempting if it has a good map designing service, dungeon creator, encounter calculator, and monster creator. Every bit of overhead in running the game being removed, and all for the low, low price of $15/mo or whatever. Have your players gift you a sub!

Heck, if the custom minis features on the online tabletop they're building is a whole collectable feature, or if there's something similar for dice, then that alone will have its own marketplace build up.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:52

Mustache Ride: Sep 11, 2001

Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game?

# ? Dec 10, 2022 18:44

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Mustache Ride posted:

Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game?

Dear fellow Sentinels of the Multiverse players,

I am writing to invite you to join me in a new campaign that I am planning. The campaign will take place in a world filled with laser caverns, laser orcs, and mysterious laser spaceships, and will involve the search for gooey treasure.

To participate, please create a character that you would like to play in this campaign. You can choose from any of the heroes and villains available in the Sentinels of the Multiverse rulebooks, but please keep in mind that your character will need to be able to navigate through laser caverns and face off against laser orcs.

Once you have created your character, please send me the details so that I can incorporate them into the campaign. I will also provide you with more information about the story and the world in which the campaign takes place.

I am looking forward to embarking on this adventure with you!

Best regards,
[Your Name]

# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:10

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Geeze, I was super excited but then I tried to put in some villains and locations and stuff but the only thing it'll output now is this:

Dear fellow Sentinels of the Multiverse players,

I am writing to apologize for having to cancel our planned campaign. Unfortunately, life has gotten in the way and I will no longer be able to run the game. Linda's etsy store has really taken off and I need to help her with packing orders, and Bill has had to back out because his kid started junior lifeguards and he's always driving to the beach and back. I know that many of you were looking forward to this and I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I hope that we can still get together for other gaming sessions in the future, and I will make sure to let you know if I am able to reschedule the campaign at a later date. In the meantime, please don't hesitate to reach out to me if you have any questions or concerns.

Once again, I am very sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and I hope to see you all again soon.

Best regards,
[Your Name]

# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:28

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

Mustache Ride posted:

Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game?

I asked ChatGPT to write a D&D scenario and it came up with a reasonably good framework, but couldn't extend to any details. It did give some reasonable explanations when I pointed out plot holes.

I then asked it to come up with a Chuubo's scenario and it presented some bizarre modern fantasy thing in which the PCs were secret agents hired by the Wish Granting Agency to determine what needed to happen in order to improve the world. To be fair, when I then entered "that's not Chuubo's, you just BSed your way through that didn't you?" it basically admitted it.

theironjef posted:

Geeze, I was super excited but then I tried to put in some villains and locations and stuff but the only thing it'll output now is this:

So the AI literally thinks about running a game, then when it comes to specifics realizes it's too hard and welches on the arrangement. Turing Test passed.

Halloween Jack posted:

In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel.

That's exactly what they don't want, because tummyfeel is what they're going for - they want you to think you can "feel" like you do when listening to those celebs, or even being one. They also know that most players brought in will drop the game before coming anywhere near having enough experience for rule mastery to make a difference. So few podcasts actually follow anything like the rules that they're basically meaningless from a marketing POV.

Arrrthritis posted:

Trump wouldn't even start a campaign. He would bring out big binders full of empty paper to showcase about how epic and grand his homebrew setting is and how much work he put into it (but no, you can't see inside gently caress you), and then when someone asks questions like "so where does it take place" or "what level do our characters start?" he will storm out, taking everything with him and saying that it's all your fault that you didn't get to play in his great game.

I feel triggered

hyphz fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 10, 2022

# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:33

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Kai Tave posted:

e; I think people are being more skeptical about the possibility of WotC achieving this stuff than it deserves, to be honest. It's one thing to think the odds of the upcoming D&D movie generating MCU levels of hype are unlikely, but WotC wanting to find ways to extract monthly transactions from their ride-or-die consumer base is, from a pure soulless money-extracting perspective, not just their next logical step but one I think a lot of people would be perfectly happy to do. Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for.

In theory, 4E already had a subscription-based digital platform that was making money. But even setting aside the unique problems with the 4E digital tools development process, I think it is a massive mistake for the executives to assume that somehow all the technical problems can be resolved cheaply as if turning D&D into a digital platform for online gaming is basically the same as developing a single CRPG.

Assuming One is developed alongside digital tools, Hasbro will either have to delay the rules release for 2-3 years because the digital development will take much longer and has to be accurate to the in-print rules, or release hard-copy and tell everyone to wait on the digital platform (which didn't work out so well in 4E), or spend massive amounts of money to rush the digital development, because rushing and then firing most of the people who developed your digital platform always works out without any hitches.

Any Hasbro exec who believes that acquiring D&D Beyond means that it will be quick and easy to leverage the existing platform for anything beyond record keeping and providing digital access to rules knows as little about computing as they do about RPGs. All that sweet MMORPG money takes a lot of time, investment, and hard work to start earning, and even more to maintain or grow.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 20:02

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

Wizards did just post a Director of Hobby Commercialization and Sales Development position...

Which is an alltime cursed job title

# ? Dec 10, 2022 20:42

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L"

# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:00

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

homullus posted:

picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L"

Weird, I'm picturing people freaking out about segways and jetpacks destroying the car and air travel industry when I see AI generated content

# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:08

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

homullus posted:

picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L"

it's closer to john phillip sousa saying the record player would kill live music and musicians jobs

# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:24

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

hyphz posted:

That's exactly what they don't want, because tummyfeel is what they're going for - they want you to think you can "feel" like you do when listening to those celebs, or even being one. They also know that most players brought in will drop the game before coming anywhere near having enough experience for rule mastery to make a difference. So few podcasts actually follow anything like the rules that they're basically meaningless from a marketing POV.

Then they have absolutely nothing to sell, including core rulebooks. I don't need anything to pretend I'm listening to a podcast.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:55

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Narsham posted:

Any Hasbro exec who believes that acquiring D&D Beyond means that it will be quick and easy to leverage the existing platform for anything beyond record keeping and providing digital access to rules knows as little about computing as they do about RPGs. All that sweet MMORPG money takes a lot of time, investment, and hard work to start earning, and even more to maintain or grow.

I don't think making a successful VTT and accompanying ecosystem will be child's play by any means, but I also think that compared to companies that decided to sink themselves in the quagmire of "we'll just make an MMO, how hard can be it" that it's still several orders of magnitude easier and more likely to actually pan out in some fashion.

# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:13

Nystral: Feb 6, 2002; Every man likes a pretty girl with him at a skeleton dance.

Halloween Jack posted:

In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel.

But isn�t that what 1e modules basically did? IIRC the Slave Lords campaign was basically a long weekend tournament scenario split out into 4 parts and a run as a competition at a con then released as 4 interlocking modules.

# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:18

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

What they are seemingly doing with One DnD isn't thaaaaat hard to do with currently available tech, there are plenty of examples of that "thing" being implemented.

They specifically said it's just a 3d tabletop, which like Tabletop Sim has been doing for years and years.

Or that one more multiverse thing but 3d and not 2d.

Acquiring DnD beyond gave them an online vector and access to users, when they roll it out. And also gives them like actual online distribution for their game which they for some reason(stupidity) didn't have before.

Rather than them having to create D&D Forward™ or whatever with and like compete with Beyond or having to convince people to use another website.

This is pretty much a layup as they've been bringing in and buying video games developers and companies for it for a while now.

Will it be good probably not, but it's not some grand expensive undertaking, at least for what they are saying. Make 6e specific tabletop Sim like thing for 6e, and offer people overpriced minis and cosmetics to buy for use in their platform. And allow people to create their own modules for sale only on their platform, where they take 30%+

The expensive bullshit they are funding that will almost assuredly fail is that AAA open world game that Hidden Path is supposedly doing.

# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:35

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

If WOTC tries to make D&D into its own entertainment ecosystem for the monetization, but everyone else still just publishes books and designs games traditionally because we don't have the kind of money for a transmedia extravaganza doesn't that just reify the issue of D&D essentially being its own thing almost entirely apart from the rest of the hobby

# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:47

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:11

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

gradenko_2000 posted:

If WOTC tries to make D&D into its own entertainment ecosystem for the monetization, but everyone else still just publishes books and designs games traditionally because we don't have the kind of money for a transmedia extravaganza doesn't that just reify the issue of D&D essentially being its own thing almost entirely apart from the rest of the hobby

I would say that division is already pretty concrete, but if it works to even further solidify it then that would be even more of an advantageous feature as far as Hasbro/WotC is concerned. The holy grail of games as a service/lifestyle brands is to become The Only One, so anything that sets D&D apart from other games that might divert eyes or dollars away from it is only ever going to be seen as good.

# ? Dec 11, 2022 04:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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