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FMguru posted:Well, one of the biggest economic challenges to RPG publishing is the fact that a single group can play forever with just one core book (or set of core books) and a set of funny dice. There are various solutions to this: the supplement treadmill, metaplot, ancillary items (all those Dragonlance calendars and cookbooks), multimedia licensing (novels, video games, tv series), subscription online tools/content, etcetera. This is the first time I've seen a well-funded effort to turn an RPG into a mass-media brand in itself. Should be interesting, if nothing else. The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:02 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 22:06 |
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Kai Tave posted:The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else. Especially when RPG players often get ridiculous ratios of hours of entertainment: purchases. Since 2019 I've spent maybe 100 bucks on RPGs, but that's translated to 4-5 hours of entertainment for 4-6 players almost every week. They're simply not gonna be able to get each player to kick in 10 bucks a month for d&d, but maybe they can squeeze 10 bucks a table or gm, or convince more players that they should give wotc 2.99 a month forever instead of buying the beginners box every 7-10 years.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:15 |
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Dungeons & Dragons Battle Pass
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:17 |
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Kai Tave posted:The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else. Still, it's an interesting step up for a property that not long ago had just a handful of people working on it and was treated as a minor legacy brand
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:17 |
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Oh look, a perfect demonstration of why ChatGPT is a huge loving problem. https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/zhbxiq/protection_of_angels_a_3part_shadowun_adventure/ As one commentor notes: Ask yourself, what exactly would an AI have to be trained on to produce prompt responses with very specific niche RPG terms of art? Reddit posted:
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:25 |
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I'd give that a B- for the repetitious elements like cheap security cameras with blind spots coming up more than once.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:34 |
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mllaneza posted:I'd give that a B- for the repetitious elements like cheap security cameras with blind spots coming up more than once. Yeah I didn't read the whole thing but from what I skimmed it was pretty mediocre, the comments were also alarmist in the dumbest way "this is clearly trained on plagiarism because it knew Shadowrun specific jargon" like uh trolls, and clients being called Johnson
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:40 |
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Make that entire post the thread title TIA Also lmao at the idea of anyone being threatened by that or thinking it’s a problem
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:47 |
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Bottom Liner posted:Make that entire post the thread title TIA I might not be the best GM, but even I'm not e-GM-ulated by a chatbot.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 05:53 |
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I'd bet that someone at WotC already made a proposal about having AI run Adventure Paths that players could subscribe to play with like a fancier, localized MUD.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 06:11 |
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Ok get this, it's a blue Ok fine what if we throw in online resources that are functional but players will still want to buy the books. I don't know, maybe an official twitching podcast streaming discord slack? And we give it out to famous people who might see your comments sometimes, that's not parasocial that's social-social and you will be their friends BECAUSE you've both got blue ampersands
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 06:37 |
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Liquid Communism posted:refer to the Shadowrun lore and world Okay, thanks.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:29 |
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Kai Tave posted:The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else. Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc?
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:41 |
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Dawgstar posted:Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc? I wouldn't say it's a thing that's out of the question but if they feel that strongly about the streaming scene I'd expect them to try and just make some offer to bring Critical Role into the fold first since I imagine that would save them a lot of time and effort, plus mergers are the big hotness right now.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:44 |
Critical Role had that cartoon on Amazon, did that cost more money to make than all of Dungeons and Dragons?
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:54 |
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Call me a luddite and a grognard and maybe I wouldn't be able to tell someday but I wouldn't be comfortable playing with someone who was using chatGPT to come up with plots Have some pride in your own work
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 07:55 |
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My concern is not that AI is going to be capable of producing convincing art/creative media, but that media literacy is already so low that people are going to read output like that and think that proves it’s capable of it. Which is only going to make media literacy worse
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:24 |
Kai Tave posted:The big issue the execs are probably seeing, if I had to guess, is that all the stuff that has helped D&D blow up bigger than ever in recent years, stuff like Critical Role and Stranger Things, is stuff that WotC does not control and/or can't monetize directly. All of the points of engagement, those "on-ramps" they mention, don't have toll booths that go directly into WotC's pockets, and this has probably done more to make people in executive positions go "we have to find more ways to monetize this" than anything else.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:42 |
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Zereth posted:I'm pretty sure most of the things that are attracting viewers/customers in those non-WOTC things are not actually properties of D&D itself, is the thing. You can't turn "D&D" into a loving like, Lord of the Rings media juggernaut, because D&D is some game rules. If they were trying to do a, say, Forgotten Realms media blitz they might have something but when the brand they're trying to do it with is "D&D itself", uh.... These executives are 100% correct to identify D&D as a lifestyle brand, and there are a shitload of people out there who are "D&D fans" in general, not Forgotten Realms fans or Dark Sun fans, just D&D as some meta-connective tissue that runs through their favorite streamers and actual plays and fan art of horny tiefling bards. Yeah they're also Critical Role fans, but the venn diagram of Critical Role fans and RPG hobbyists who will tell you to your face that they'll never run or play a game that doesn't have D&D somewhere on it is pretty close to a perfect circle. Or to put it another way, right now there is the foundation of a media juggernaut, and that's why D&D has gotten so popular and made so much money in recent years. Critical Role didn't onboard people to a specific setting, they did it for D&D the lifestyle brand, but while that foundation has undeniably been beneficial to WotC they want direct control over it and a way to directly monetize it. e; I think people are being more skeptical about the possibility of WotC achieving this stuff than it deserves, to be honest. It's one thing to think the odds of the upcoming D&D movie generating MCU levels of hype are unlikely, but WotC wanting to find ways to extract monthly transactions from their ride-or-die consumer base is, from a pure soulless money-extracting perspective, not just their next logical step but one I think a lot of people would be perfectly happy to do. Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 10, 2022 |
# ? Dec 10, 2022 09:55 |
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Dawgstar posted:Are we far from WotC trying to have their 'own' Critical Role? Bigger celebs, production values, etc? They basically invented celebrity actual play in 4e by hiring the Penny Arcade and CAD guys to play. ...And then they utterly failed to monetize it, which probably hasn't escaped their notice. I remember that one of the PA guys offered to keep doing it but WotC didn't have the money for more "advertising" of that sort.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 13:28 |
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moths posted:They basically invented celebrity actual play in 4e by hiring the Penny Arcade and CAD guys to play. PA still does the Acquisitions Incorporated live plays at their PAX cons and licensed a Clank box set a few years ago. It's continued well enough without WotC's involvement.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 16:46 |
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In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:01 |
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Midjack posted:PA still does the Acquisitions Incorporated live plays at their PAX cons and licensed a Clank box set a few years ago. It's continued well enough without WotC's involvement. My point is that WotC came up with the celebrity actual play, then when the celebrities said "let us continue this immensely popular thing to make you money," WotC shrugged and released it into the wild. I don't think business really gets D&D, because the product is confusing to a conventional business model. The product is "playtime with your friends" and "nerd identity." AP demonstrated that you could approximate friends with celebrities.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:22 |
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moths posted:AP demonstrated that you could approximate friends with celebrities.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:25 |
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Kai Tave posted:Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for. That's already doing a lot of that with D&D Insider, and they're promising an even more expansive suite of features with their new edition and subscription service. It could even be really tempting if it has a good map designing service, dungeon creator, encounter calculator, and monster creator. Every bit of overhead in running the game being removed, and all for the low, low price of $15/mo or whatever. Have your players gift you a sub! Heck, if the custom minis features on the online tabletop they're building is a whole collectable feature, or if there's something similar for dice, then that alone will have its own marketplace build up.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 17:52 |
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Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game?
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 18:44 |
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Mustache Ride posted:Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game? Dear fellow Sentinels of the Multiverse players, I am writing to invite you to join me in a new campaign that I am planning. The campaign will take place in a world filled with laser caverns, laser orcs, and mysterious laser spaceships, and will involve the search for gooey treasure. To participate, please create a character that you would like to play in this campaign. You can choose from any of the heroes and villains available in the Sentinels of the Multiverse rulebooks, but please keep in mind that your character will need to be able to navigate through laser caverns and face off against laser orcs. Once you have created your character, please send me the details so that I can incorporate them into the campaign. I will also provide you with more information about the story and the world in which the campaign takes place. I am looking forward to embarking on this adventure with you! Best regards, [Your Name]
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:10 |
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Geeze, I was super excited but then I tried to put in some villains and locations and stuff but the only thing it'll output now is this: Dear fellow Sentinels of the Multiverse players, I am writing to apologize for having to cancel our planned campaign. Unfortunately, life has gotten in the way and I will no longer be able to run the game. Linda's etsy store has really taken off and I need to help her with packing orders, and Bill has had to back out because his kid started junior lifeguards and he's always driving to the beach and back. I know that many of you were looking forward to this and I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. I hope that we can still get together for other gaming sessions in the future, and I will make sure to let you know if I am able to reschedule the campaign at a later date. In the meantime, please don't hesitate to reach out to me if you have any questions or concerns. Once again, I am very sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and I hope to see you all again soon. Best regards, [Your Name]
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:28 |
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Mustache Ride posted:Alright, who's going to start the first ChatGPT powered pbp game? I asked ChatGPT to write a D&D scenario and it came up with a reasonably good framework, but couldn't extend to any details. It did give some reasonable explanations when I pointed out plot holes. I then asked it to come up with a Chuubo's scenario and it presented some bizarre modern fantasy thing in which the PCs were secret agents hired by the Wish Granting Agency to determine what needed to happen in order to improve the world. To be fair, when I then entered "that's not Chuubo's, you just BSed your way through that didn't you?" it basically admitted it. theironjef posted:Geeze, I was super excited but then I tried to put in some villains and locations and stuff but the only thing it'll output now is this: So the AI literally thinks about running a game, then when it comes to specifics realizes it's too hard and welches on the arrangement. Turing Test passed. Halloween Jack posted:In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel. That's exactly what they don't want, because tummyfeel is what they're going for - they want you to think you can "feel" like you do when listening to those celebs, or even being one. They also know that most players brought in will drop the game before coming anywhere near having enough experience for rule mastery to make a difference. So few podcasts actually follow anything like the rules that they're basically meaningless from a marketing POV. Arrrthritis posted:Trump wouldn't even start a campaign. He would bring out big binders full of empty paper to showcase about how epic and grand his homebrew setting is and how much work he put into it (but no, you can't see inside gently caress you), and then when someone asks questions like "so where does it take place" or "what level do our characters start?" he will storm out, taking everything with him and saying that it's all your fault that you didn't get to play in his great game. I feel triggered hyphz fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 10, 2022 |
# ? Dec 10, 2022 19:33 |
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Kai Tave posted:e; I think people are being more skeptical about the possibility of WotC achieving this stuff than it deserves, to be honest. It's one thing to think the odds of the upcoming D&D movie generating MCU levels of hype are unlikely, but WotC wanting to find ways to extract monthly transactions from their ride-or-die consumer base is, from a pure soulless money-extracting perspective, not just their next logical step but one I think a lot of people would be perfectly happy to do. Microtransactions and monthly fees aren't on the same level of pie-in-the-sky speculative bullshit as something like, idk, NFTs were, that pump has been well and truly primed by now, and for every person who says they'll just go off the elfgame grid and play D&D for free using the books they already own, I don't have trouble believing that there are more people who would pony up a Discord Nitro-esque payment every month to use the branded D&D virtual tabletop and get access to special emotes or something, and that's just the most basic level of what they're probably hoping for. In theory, 4E already had a subscription-based digital platform that was making money. But even setting aside the unique problems with the 4E digital tools development process, I think it is a massive mistake for the executives to assume that somehow all the technical problems can be resolved cheaply as if turning D&D into a digital platform for online gaming is basically the same as developing a single CRPG. Assuming One is developed alongside digital tools, Hasbro will either have to delay the rules release for 2-3 years because the digital development will take much longer and has to be accurate to the in-print rules, or release hard-copy and tell everyone to wait on the digital platform (which didn't work out so well in 4E), or spend massive amounts of money to rush the digital development, because rushing and then firing most of the people who developed your digital platform always works out without any hitches. Any Hasbro exec who believes that acquiring D&D Beyond means that it will be quick and easy to leverage the existing platform for anything beyond record keeping and providing digital access to rules knows as little about computing as they do about RPGs. All that sweet MMORPG money takes a lot of time, investment, and hard work to start earning, and even more to maintain or grow.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 20:02 |
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Wizards did just post a Director of Hobby Commercialization and Sales Development position... Which is an alltime cursed job title
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 20:42 |
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picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L"
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:00 |
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homullus posted:picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L"
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:08 |
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homullus posted:picturing all the buggy whip and saddle makers seeing the early horseless carriage and saying "what, I'm supposed to be threatened by this? L-O-L" it's closer to john phillip sousa saying the record player would kill live music and musicians jobs
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:24 |
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hyphz posted:That's exactly what they don't want, because tummyfeel is what they're going for - they want you to think you can "feel" like you do when listening to those celebs, or even being one. They also know that most players brought in will drop the game before coming anywhere near having enough experience for rule mastery to make a difference. So few podcasts actually follow anything like the rules that they're basically meaningless from a marketing POV.
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# ? Dec 10, 2022 23:55 |
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Narsham posted:Any Hasbro exec who believes that acquiring D&D Beyond means that it will be quick and easy to leverage the existing platform for anything beyond record keeping and providing digital access to rules knows as little about computing as they do about RPGs. All that sweet MMORPG money takes a lot of time, investment, and hard work to start earning, and even more to maintain or grow. I don't think making a successful VTT and accompanying ecosystem will be child's play by any means, but I also think that compared to companies that decided to sink themselves in the quagmire of "we'll just make an MMO, how hard can be it" that it's still several orders of magnitude easier and more likely to actually pan out in some fashion.
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# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:13 |
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Halloween Jack posted:In order to make all this stuff worthwhile, they need an actually complete ruleset for "tournament standard " play and organized play worth giving a poo poo about. What they want isn't compatible with design by tummyfeel. But isn’t that what 1e modules basically did? IIRC the Slave Lords campaign was basically a long weekend tournament scenario split out into 4 parts and a run as a competition at a con then released as 4 interlocking modules.
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# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:18 |
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What they are seemingly doing with One DnD isn't thaaaaat hard to do with currently available tech, there are plenty of examples of that "thing" being implemented. They specifically said it's just a 3d tabletop, which like Tabletop Sim has been doing for years and years. Or that one more multiverse thing but 3d and not 2d. Acquiring DnD beyond gave them an online vector and access to users, when they roll it out. And also gives them like actual online distribution for their game which they for some reason(stupidity) didn't have before. Rather than them having to create D&D Forward™ or whatever with and like compete with Beyond or having to convince people to use another website. This is pretty much a layup as they've been bringing in and buying video games developers and companies for it for a while now. Will it be good probably not, but it's not some grand expensive undertaking, at least for what they are saying. Make 6e specific tabletop Sim like thing for 6e, and offer people overpriced minis and cosmetics to buy for use in their platform. And allow people to create their own modules for sale only on their platform, where they take 30%+ The expensive bullshit they are funding that will almost assuredly fail is that AAA open world game that Hidden Path is supposedly doing.
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# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:35 |
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If WOTC tries to make D&D into its own entertainment ecosystem for the monetization, but everyone else still just publishes books and designs games traditionally because we don't have the kind of money for a transmedia extravaganza doesn't that just reify the issue of D&D essentially being its own thing almost entirely apart from the rest of the hobby
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# ? Dec 11, 2022 00:47 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 22:06 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:If WOTC tries to make D&D into its own entertainment ecosystem for the monetization, but everyone else still just publishes books and designs games traditionally because we don't have the kind of money for a transmedia extravaganza doesn't that just reify the issue of D&D essentially being its own thing almost entirely apart from the rest of the hobby I would say that division is already pretty concrete, but if it works to even further solidify it then that would be even more of an advantageous feature as far as Hasbro/WotC is concerned. The holy grail of games as a service/lifestyle brands is to become The Only One, so anything that sets D&D apart from other games that might divert eyes or dollars away from it is only ever going to be seen as good.
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# ? Dec 11, 2022 04:06 |