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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I genuinely think it would be better for SNW to explicitly not try to be in continuity with TOS, to give them the freedom to take characters (and alien polities) wherever they want and not have to worry about poo poo like "but Christine Chapel has to eventually be engaged to Roger Corman", or (apparently) "but the Gorn aren't actually relentlessly monstrous". Agreed. SNW seems to mostly be doing things the right way, but I dislike modern writers coming in and bulldozing established facts because they want to "update" it (some parts of TOS, like its questionable attitudes towards women, deserve to be interrogated, of course).
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Dec 12, 2022 18:47
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Should've just made a Kelvin TV series if you don't want to fit into existing canon. I mean I get the actors are too expensive for that, but drat it they had finally gotten into their roles. Or make a new series about space exploration starring Anson Mount.
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Dec 12, 2022 18:53
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If they didn’t want people to complain about how they changed the characters, maybe they shouldn’t have filled the cast with legacy characters? I love what they’ve done with characters like Chapel and Uhura, but with Spock already there and now bringing in Kirk, they’ve already introduced half the TOS cast and we’ve only had 10 episodes. You wonder if they’ve already planned where McCoy and Scott are going to be introduced…
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Dec 12, 2022 19:31
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Zaroff posted:If they didn’t want people to complain about how they changed the characters, maybe they shouldn’t have filled the cast with legacy characters? Chapel and Uhura were underdeveloped characters anyway, at least in TOS (Uhura got some character growth in the movies). Spock's character has been strip mined to the point that I'm not sure there's much left to learn about him. This isn't so much a complaint about SNW than newer Trek (post-DS9) in general.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:02
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Chapel and Uhura were underdeveloped characters anyway, at least in TOS (Uhura got some character growth in the movies). Spock's character has been strip mined to the point that I'm not sure there's much left to learn about him. This isn't so much a complaint about SNW than newer Trek (post-DS9) in general. Not much more to learn about Spock? What the gently caress? I want to know Spock's 3D chess win percentage. I want a Kolinahr training montage. And how many other secret siblings does he have? I want to know what Spock smells like.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:16
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Vulcans have a much more sensitive sense of smell than humans so we can reasonably deduce that they either don't smell at all to us or are pleasantly scented as they would have perfected deodorant technology thousands of years ago
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Dec 12, 2022 21:20
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Yes, but is it logical to make oneself smell good?
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Dec 12, 2022 21:21
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Yes, but is it logical to make oneself smell good? Vulcans have long reconciled aesthetics with logic. Look at it another way, is it logical to offend the senses? They're ascetics, not flagellants.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:45
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Yeah, this goes back to the whole thing about emotions being more complex mental states but stuff like like/dislike/desire are all more basic that you can still have even if you don't have emotion. Otherwise they would all be wearing beige jumpsuits and eating flavorless nutritionally perfect gruel and their ships would be 100% function over form (not much different than Borg cubes.) They like and dislike things. They find things pleasing and displeasing. What they don't do is let their base desires form complex behavior patterns that make them act irrationally.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:57
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Neelix repeatedly remarked how bland Vulcan food is though.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:06
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BonHair posted:Neelix repeatedly remarked how bland Vulcan food is though. Do you trust Neelix's culinary opinion on literally anything?
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Dec 12, 2022 22:07
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Well, don't the vulcans mostly eat vegetable soup and drink herbal tea? They smell like hippies.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:10
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If Mister Spock has no smell I will have to accept it. I don't like it, but I will accept it. But as long as there's a chance, however small, that he has a smell, I want to know what it is. The only star trek character I know with a canonical smell is worf (lilacs), but if there are others please tell me.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:11
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is the bowl cut the most logical hairstyle?
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Dec 12, 2022 22:12
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We honestly don't know a ton about vulcan food as only like 5 things were ever named on camera and two of them were breakfast foods (the rest had no descriptions as to their taste.)
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Dec 12, 2022 22:13
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Eimi posted:Do you trust Neelix's culinary opinion on literally anything? Neelix routinely creates and ingests food that's so intense it will loving kill you, so yeah, in this one instance, I will trust the man if he says something's "a little bland".
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Dec 12, 2022 22:20
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Meemaw made great Pon Fare Roasted Vulcangetables
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Dec 12, 2022 22:20
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Neelix made the ship sick.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:31
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bull3964 posted:Yeah, this goes back to the whole thing about emotions being more complex mental states but stuff like like/dislike/desire are all more basic that you can still have even if you don't have emotion. Yeah, when discussing Vulcan culture you have to remember that they have the most ornamented and aesthetic ship interiors out there, way more than Starfleet, and that's entirely compatible with their philosophy.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:40
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bull3964 posted:Yeah, this goes back to the whole thing about emotions being more complex mental states but stuff like like/dislike/desire are all more basic that you can still have even if you don't have emotion. I think it might be the episode where the kid imprints on Data but Data has a quote that goes something like: “I do not have emotions. I do not feel love, or friendship. But I do grow used to things, and notice their absence. I would miss my friends (the bridge crew) if they were gone.”
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Dec 12, 2022 22:48
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Arivia posted:I think it might be the episode where the kid imprints on Data but Data has a quote that goes something like: “I do not have emotions. I do not feel love, or friendship. But I do grow used to things, and notice their absence. I would miss my friends (the bridge crew) if they were gone.” That's true but a common interpretation of things like that with Data is that he's developing a certain degree of proto-emotions without knowing or having context to recognise what they are.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:14
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Kibayasu posted:Neelix made the ship sick. Yeah because their weak human digestive systems couldn't handle the raw power of his seasonings.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:30
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Sash! posted:Yeah because their weak human digestive systems couldn't handle the raw power of his seasonings. Neither could Klingon or Vulcan digestive systems.
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Dec 13, 2022 00:09
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Talaxian, either, actually; Neelix actually enjoys the sensation of dyspepsia. Feels like home.
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Dec 13, 2022 00:14
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TV had Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country on back to back. I've never seen Final Frontier beginning to end in one go, and... it's good? It's a perfectly fine time, like maybe Shatner could have given himself less action to do, but it's a fun romp. Undiscovered Country is still amazing however. I've seen it a few times now, and it's still great. I love Spock's little shrug when Kirk turns to him all 'Can you believe this broad telling me I can't use impulse engines in Spacedock?' Also Plummer's voice is so... cinematic? His throaty whisper on "I have so wanted to meet you captain. One warrior to another." is so gravelly and quiet but it absolutely fills the silence wonderfully. 
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Dec 13, 2022 00:35
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The_Doctor posted:
Love the way this update enhances this scene: it gives a bit of context to Valeris' expression as they leave https://youtu.be/OdRUL8RbDw8 (Also the thruster swing-around is :chef's kiss:) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 00:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I genuinely think it would be better for SNW to explicitly not try to be in continuity with TOS, to give them the freedom to take characters (and alien polities) wherever they want and not have to worry about poo poo like "but Christine Chapel has to eventually be engaged to Roger Corman", or (apparently) "but the Gorn aren't actually relentlessly monstrous". You got a whole show to do that. It's called Star Trek: Discovery, and it's set in the Year 3000 and you can change things however you want because continuity is unknown that far in the future.
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Dec 13, 2022 01:18
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Astroman posted:You got a whole show to do that. It's called Star Trek: Discovery, and it's set in the Year 3000 and you can change things however you want because continuity is unknown that far in the future. You can change things however you want to tell the story you want to tell and that story's success or failure depends on your skill and whether or not fans/execs are okay with it. Suppose Strange New Worlds decides that "Ooooh, guess what? That guy in the wheelchair from the 60s who looked like Death's vomit? Turns out that was actually Christopher Pike's good robot clone brother who saved our Pike from that fate. So Captain Dad-Pike and some old and new crew from the show will continue to go to Strange New Worlds." Could that trip over it's own dick and die? Sure? But it might not. Continuity in fiction should provide structure for other stories. But it shouldn't be a prison or a religion.
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Dec 13, 2022 01:59
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The_Doctor posted:TV had Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country on back to back. I've never seen Final Frontier beginning to end in one go, and... it's good? It's a perfectly fine time, like maybe Shatner could have given himself less action to do, but it's a fun romp. Been saying this since 1989. It definitely gets a bad rap due to the fan hivemind. There's a lot to like about it. Some of it's not good, but a movie with such an iconic line as "what does God need with a starship?" has to have a lot going for it.
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Dec 13, 2022 04:35
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STV had a full scale shuttlebay landing with no CGI. There was even an almost seamless turbolift journey from it up to the bridge. None of the other movies put that kind of effort into something that would, in universe, be a mundane and everyday occurrence.
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Dec 13, 2022 04:41
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, when discussing Vulcan culture you have to remember that they have the most ornamented and aesthetic ship interiors out there, way more than Starfleet, and that's entirely compatible with their philosophy. Appreciation of beauty is entirely logical. Beauty is preferable to ugliness. In fact I would go so far to say that, contrary to the popular conception, the Vulcans do have, and cultivate, their emotions. They don't (in theory) display them or allow them to rule their actions, and they certainly ruthlessly suppress the passions. But going through the total purge of Kolinahr seems to be something only a few actually do, and even without external circumstances like mind-altering substances there is a fairly wide spectrum on screen of Vulcans and their behavior. Playing and listening to music, creating and studying art, etc. are simply good in and of themselves, and the Vulcans as a whole are similar enough to humans that to lead a full and meaningful life without these expressions and appreciation of them, would be impossible. Vulcans keep pets, they play games. I don't think they have it all together, but if we all were a little closer to that philosophy this off-balance world would be better off.
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Dec 13, 2022 04:56
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I bet Neelix has a smell...
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Dec 13, 2022 05:03
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Sash! posted:Yeah because their weak human digestive systems couldn't handle the raw power of his seasonings. No he made the literal ship sick.
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Dec 13, 2022 05:29
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I imagine Neelix being like those white boys who just dump ghost chilies into things rather than cooking with proper seasoning.
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Dec 13, 2022 06:36
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The_Doctor posted:TV had Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country on back to back. I've never seen Final Frontier beginning to end in one go, and... it's good? It's a perfectly fine time, like maybe Shatner could have given himself less action to do, but it's a fun romp. I also watched it first time from start to end some time ago, and agree that it is perfectly fine. Actually much better than what I anticipated based on the snippets I had seen, and general feedback from fans. The script has some focus issues, some details are wrong, and in hindsight this started the "another Spock sibling" which is lazy writing, but the concept of "religious zealot starts a star crusade to break a god out of jail" isn't that bad, actually. The SFX also look at times cheap compared to previous ones or ST6 but that wasn't Shatner's fault.
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Dec 13, 2022 11:32
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I was also surprised at how much I enjoyed 5 when I finally watched it, but I think the script could have used another pass.
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Dec 13, 2022 11:40
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I believe it suffered from a writers' strike as well.
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Dec 13, 2022 13:44
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Yeah the script was a real mess. The effects were extremely unfortunate as well, so both of those failing at the same time really handicapped the film, which did have some potential otherwise. If it were nicer to look at, it would probably be like a slightly better Generations. (Actually there are quite a few other similarities between the movies now that I really think about it)
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Dec 13, 2022 14:00
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FF is still bad, sorry It’s mostly entertainingly bad but the film really drags until they get off of the ‘peace planet’
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Dec 13, 2022 14:15
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Film4 is now showing Generations and First Contact back to back. Why was the B launched while basically incomplete? Picard and Troi's scene together when he breaks down over the death of his family is so good.
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Dec 13, 2022 18:48
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