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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Developers are technicians responsible for carrying out their assigned coding tasks, they dont really know what it takes to keep a massive website running for the long term. They certainly wouldn't be considered the 'experts' in something like this. In fact, their failed predictions of doom and imminent collapse suggest that they know less than a layperson. I feel like the SREs going on about the ever increasing change of catastrophic failure are in a good position to speak on the matter, and from them the message seems to be "eventually something will break and they won't have the ability to recover".
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Dec 18, 2022 13:13
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silence_kit posted:Well the predictions were obviously very wrong. 'Local' forecasters confidently predicted that Twitter would crash within the month. When it became very clear that their predictions would not come true, they changed their story, and avoided addressing the original incorrect prediction. Wait, as it even been two weeks? It feels like he just bought it to me.
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Dec 18, 2022 13:14
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goons made a prediction that failed to come true? say it isn't so.
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Dec 18, 2022 13:31
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Charlz Guybon posted:Wait, as it even been two weeks? It feels like he just bought it to me. It’s been at least a month. Look at the date on this news article. https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/17/23465274/hundreds-of-twitter-employees-resign-from-elon-musk-hardcore-deadline
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Dec 18, 2022 13:31
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He's only owned Twitter for just over a UK Prime Minister term. Before that the company was fully staffed by competent employees, so you've got to give a little time for years of infrastructure and planning to fail. Especially since they had time to fully prep for the World Cup before he became sophist tyrant.
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Dec 18, 2022 13:44
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Bel Shazar posted:I feel like the SREs going on about the ever increasing change of catastrophic failure are in a good position to speak on the matter, and from them the message seems to be "eventually something will break and they won't have the ability to recover". Maybe so, but as forums poster BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress has recently posted, it is also smart to be sensitive to the conflict of interest present in such a claim. If they were to say anything else, it would diminish the importance of their role. It's kind of shocking to me how on this sub-forum which is incredibly cynical about almost everything, we can be so naïve when it comes to selective topics.
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Dec 18, 2022 13:52
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silence_kit posted:Maybe so, but as forums poster BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress has recently posted, it is also smart to be sensitive to the conflict of interest present in such a claim. If they were to say anything else, it would diminish the importance of their role. Having watched Rackspace slowly fall apart as it divested itself of engineering and support staff, and given Musk's history as a leader, Twitter eventually going boom should be the default hypothesis.
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Dec 18, 2022 13:55
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DarkCrawler posted:All the Musk fans around me are shut down or mocked. Shame works. Wink wink. Yeah I have one friend that's a Tesla cultist who prior to this latest round of musk gently caress ups, was always on social media defending Elon and arguing with people. He hasn't said poo poo in like 2 weeks.
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Dec 18, 2022 15:15
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Developers are technicians responsible for carrying out their assigned coding tasks, they dont really know what it takes to keep a massive website running for the long term. They certainly wouldn't be considered the 'experts' in something like this. In fact, their failed predictions of doom and imminent collapse suggest that they know less than a layperson. Hmmmm yessss
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Dec 18, 2022 15:37
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Cutting corners on maintenance and upkeep leads to ever-increasing chance of catastrophe, but not in a predictable way, especially with more complex systems. I haven't followed the details of it enough to guess what jobs/tasks are being cut and what aren't, but a negative change isn't going to be a "and this makes the data center shut down in X days." It's going to be making various potential failures more likely, or harder to recover from when they happen. If maintenance and development suffers over time, it gets progressively worse, like not maintaining any other big machine. Particularly if that means working existing staff harder, leaving them fatigued and distracted. Mostly what I'm getting at is that increasing risk leads to outcomes that are predictable in the broad sense, and not in the specific sense. So unless the current trajectory changes it's very likely we get the outcome of what happens when the people who say "Why did the government even HAVE non-essential workers?" during shutdowns actually run a large organization hands-on.
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Dec 18, 2022 16:26
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Gyges posted:All known history of fail sons, rich man hubris, and economy imploding gently caress ups suggest you shouldn't hold your breath. I mean, we hosed up a whole nation's economy via flowers and still can't get enough of dumb gently caress financial instruments. Its frustrating how close so many people are to a straight up pro labor class consciousness, but yes the forces against us seem insurmountable. Guess the politics from somebody who hates "global elites". "Pencil pushers who make money with their money instead of their back and hands like us". "Forces that subject us to rules they needn't abide by." It exists independently of political affiliation, it's just that the truth of our situation is so uncomfortable,, and there's so much garbage out there, some people are fine stopping at "its the jews/democrats/government at large". DarkCrawler posted:All the Musk fans around me are shut down or mocked. Shame works. Wink wink. The key isn't shame/hate (If that's still your thing), it's strength. Its pretty clear people live in different realities, and being right or wrong ain't worth much because everybody thinks they're right. Musk and trump, for example, are frequently shsmefully hilariously obviously wrong and it never slowed them down. What hurt them was looking weak, publicly being big losers. People respond to strength and power, and strength and power are what we need. Hate isn't necessary for strength. Being willing to talk to or yes even confront the people in your community is the kind of strength that wins more allies and respect.
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Dec 18, 2022 16:55
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Killer robot posted:Cutting corners on maintenance and upkeep leads to ever-increasing chance of catastrophe, but not in a predictable way, especially with more complex systems. I haven't followed the details of it enough to guess what jobs/tasks are being cut and what aren't, but a negative change isn't going to be a "and this makes the data center shut down in X days." It's going to be making various potential failures more likely, or harder to recover from when they happen. If maintenance and development suffers over time, it gets progressively worse, like not maintaining any other big machine. Particularly if that means working existing staff harder, leaving them fatigued and distracted. Sim City 2000 advisor screaming “YOU CAN’T CUT BACK ON FUNDING!!! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!” When Elon ticks down the infrastructure calculator from 100% to whatever it is now
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Dec 18, 2022 17:00
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Developers are technicians responsible for carrying out their assigned coding tasks, they dont really know what it takes to keep a massive website running for the long term. They certainly wouldn't be considered the 'experts' in something like this. In fact, their failed predictions of doom and imminent collapse suggest that they know less than a layperson. Successfully implemented is a strong word. And your explanation of what a developer does is just wrong. Bel Shazar posted:I feel like the SREs going on about the ever increasing change of catastrophic failure are in a good position to speak on the matter, and from them the message seems to be "eventually something will break and they won't have the ability to recover". Yeah, it's this. SRE roles are a lot more than "Developers are technicians responsible for carrying out their assigned coding tasks". Their job is maintaining the software and infrastructure as a complicated system, not implementing individual features.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:11
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DarkCrawler posted:All the Musk fans around me are shut down or mocked. Shame works. Wink wink. Sort of. But, man, they really have to bottom out before it sticks. Trump's stupid trading card scam seems to be flash point for some of them as well but I suspect a lot of "liberals can't take a joke" and "what about Obama's Hope poster" or some poo poo like that this week to try and explain why it's really a stroke of genius. Fully to see a giant gently caress off pickup truck in my town with a vehicle wrap and/or huge flag with one of those images before the end of the week here in MAGA ville.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:12
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BRJurgis posted:
Nah, the key to shutting them the gently caress up is pretty clearly shame and hate, for following a shameful and hateable person. How many allies and respect, if that is your goal, has your approach gained for you or people with your approach in America? My approach is pretty great in achieving the goal of shutting Elon Musk fans the gently caress up. But how are the hate-shamers doing with allies? Strength? More or less than yours? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 17:16
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DarkCrawler posted:Nah, the key to shutting them the gently caress up is pretty clearly shame and hate, for following a shameful and hateable person. How many allies and respect, if that is your goal, has your approach gained for you or people with your approach in America? My approach is pretty great in achieving the goal of shutting Elon Musk fans the gently caress up. But how are the hate-shamers doing with allies? Strength? More or less than yours? You really are one of the great and successful anti-fascists of our time. Thank you for your service fighting musk fans 
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Dec 18, 2022 17:20
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Judgy Fucker posted:Sim City 2000 advisor screaming “YOU CAN’T CUT BACK ON FUNDING!!! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!” When Elon ticks down the infrastructure calculator from 100% to whatever it is now That's the nice thing about this. They're both real life so once the city's burning you can't reload a save, release a kaiju too for shits and giggles, or just tell yourself they're only numbers without real cost as you dig yourself out of the hole. But unlike people playing federal shutdown chicken, Twitter isn't the place where I live so it being run by a careless idiot is more like watching some LP still.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:22
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DarkCrawler posted:Nah, the key to shutting them the gently caress up is pretty clearly shame and hate, for following a shameful and hateable person. How many allies and respect, if that is your goal, has your approach gained for you or people with your approach in America? My approach is pretty great in achieving the goal of shutting Elon Musk fans the gently caress up. But how are the hate-shamers doing with allies? Strength? More or less than yours? Yes, I remember the choreography of this number. You're not making Elon musk fans shut up, his obvious public failure is doing the work there. And then I explain to you that I have brought people around by doing the opposite of your strategy (talking to anybody who will listen, with a collaborative attitude). You say I haven't / cant. It seems nothing's changed between us regarding this argument.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:24
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Killer robot posted:Cutting corners on maintenance and upkeep leads to ever-increasing chance of catastrophe, but not in a predictable way, especially with more complex systems. I haven't followed the details of it enough to guess what jobs/tasks are being cut and what aren't, but a negative change isn't going to be a "and this makes the data center shut down in X days." It's going to be making various potential failures more likely, or harder to recover from when they happen. If maintenance and development suffers over time, it gets progressively worse, like not maintaining any other big machine. Particularly if that means working existing staff harder, leaving them fatigued and distracted. Not just maintenance of existing infrastructure, but remember that Musk is also having whatever remaining developers and engineers hurriedly implement new features or pull out existing features on a whim, like after his tantrum with Spaces after getting into that journo Space. BTW, pulling Spaces broke likes on Android Twitter, so it also shows you how interconnected things are.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:27
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To put it simply, it's like firing all your firefighters. The firefighters say "this city will burn down in a month" and then in a month you go "oh wow, those firefighters are idiots and know even less about fires than the normal person. We're still standing" since the entire city didn't burn down yet and your skeleton crew can handle what's broken out so far. You have not lowered your risk of a fire you can't handle, you've just avoided it so far.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:42
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BRJurgis posted:Yes, I remember the choreography of this number. You're not making Elon musk fans shut up, his obvious public failure is doing the work there. And then I explain to you that I have brought people around by doing the opposite of your strategy (talking to anybody who will listen, with a collaborative attitude). You say I haven't / cant. It seems nothing's changed between us regarding this argument. Shame and hate feel good to indulge in, and become addictive. Once that takes hold, any excuse is sufficient, reasoning can be made for any target. Victories are invented if necessary, because the point is blood and scalps, not progress.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:45
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BRJurgis posted:Yes, I remember the choreography of this number. You're not making Elon musk fans shut up, his obvious public failure is doing the work there. And then I explain to you that I have brought people around by doing the opposite of your strategy (talking to anybody who will listen, with a collaborative attitude). You say I haven't / cant. It seems nothing's changed between us regarding this argument. Actually no, I usually ask you to determine who has more success in America, you or the haters, and you never answer. You didn't do so in this reply either, despite being given the opportunity. Want to try for the first time? Gumball Gumption posted:You really are one of the great and successful anti-fascists of our time. Thank you for your service fighting musk fans Even if we go with this and all I did against fascism is just making GBS threads on (presumably fascist?) Elon Musk fans in real life, it is still doing more against fascism and in condemning fascism, as opposed to the love and understanding for fascists that you so eagerly preach. An approach that has been repeatedly proven to be completely and utterly useless in doing anything against it, with your country as perhaps the most documented example of our times. Ghost Leviathan posted:Shame and hate feel good to indulge in, and become addictive. Once that takes hold, any excuse is sufficient, reasoning can be made for any target. Victories are invented if necessary, because the point is blood and scalps, not progress. So progress is never achieved by shaming and hating? An interesting hypothesis. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 18:42
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DarkCrawler posted:Actually no, I usually ask you to determine who has more success in America, you or the haters, and you never answer. You didn't do so in this reply either, despite being given the opportunity. Want to try again? How in the gently caress would you know about what's more successful in America lmao Locals are given topical authority in all the regional DnD threads, why is this joker allowed to talk to Americans like they know this place better than we do?
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Dec 18, 2022 18:45
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DarkCrawler posted:Nah, the key to shutting them the gently caress up is pretty clearly shame and hate, for following a shameful and hateable person. How many allies and respect, if that is your goal, has your approach gained for you or people with your approach in America? My approach is pretty great in achieving the goal of shutting Elon Musk fans the gently caress up. But how are the hate-shamers doing with allies? Strength? More or less than yours? A few, depending on the person of course. Launching into a heated argument rarely works because, for most of them, that's what they're looking for. To the extent that they'll allow it, I generally try to appeal to our commonality and mutual interests but, man, you really gotta tap dance around a lot of these snowflakes. Straight up nazis, though? That's a different story.
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Dec 18, 2022 19:09
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Gumball Gumption posted:To put it simply, it's like firing all your firefighters. The firefighters say "this city will burn down in a month" and then in a month you go "oh wow, those firefighters are idiots and know even less about fires than the normal person. We're still standing" since the entire city didn't burn down yet and your skeleton crew can handle what's broken out so far. You have not lowered your risk of a fire you can't handle, you've just avoided it so far. Exactly this. Like only by the most beep-boop literal standards can you claim all those predictions were wrong. I do think some of them were overstated, this is the internet after all, but generally people were just outlining all the possible ways this could fail and why it was a bad idea to cut so much stuff. They're not necessarily wrong just because it hasn't happened yet.
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Dec 18, 2022 20:59
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DarkCrawler posted:Actually no, I usually ask you to determine who has more success in America, you or the haters, and you never answer. You didn't do so in this reply either, despite being given the opportunity. Want to try for the first time? you should post in your pet thread about this.
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Dec 18, 2022 22:23
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don't need to kick them when they're on probation imo DarkCrawler's thread was actually reopened at some point so go hog wild there if you want: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986818 the reason I'd like to head off this derail itt is because it's an argument that has been done pretty thoroughly and got quite heated in the dedicated thread, DarkCrawler appears to be doing some strawmanning of others' arguments (saying they advocate for "love and understanding for fascists" when it appears instead they're largely saying naming and shaming is ineffective), and it's a Sunday. there's a well-known phenomenon of "Sunday Sickos" where threads go buckwild on Sundays, presumably because there's not much new news to discuss and goons have free time to 
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Dec 18, 2022 22:37
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Sir Lemming posted:Exactly this. Like only by the most beep-boop literal standards can you claim all those predictions were wrong. I do think some of them were overstated, this is the internet after all, but generally people were just outlining all the possible ways this could fail and why it was a bad idea to cut so much stuff. They're not necessarily wrong just because it hasn't happened yet. How long does it take, then? Surely at some point (6 months? 18?) it will have been enough time to say "yeah, this was wrong"
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Dec 18, 2022 22:58
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DeadlyMuffin posted:How long does it take, then? Surely at some point (6 months? 18?) it will have been enough time to say "yeah, this was wrong" < 2 years at the extreme end in my random opinion.
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Dec 18, 2022 23:05
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DeadlyMuffin posted:How long does it take, then? Surely at some point (6 months? 18?) it will have been enough time to say "yeah, this was wrong" It's like being avoidably uninsured. Just because you didn't have an accident during the period doesn't mean it wasn't stupid or reckless.
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Dec 19, 2022 00:01
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Oxyclean posted:The thing is, after enough time there's probably going to be stability through effort, it doesn't really mean there wasn't a period where things were in a really high-risk state. Right, and like insurance, it is possible to find other ways to mitigate those risks. And if you get lucky enough to avoid any mishaps during that time between cancelling your insurance and putting something else in place, good for you. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a pretty stupid idea, or even that this way is better in the long run. I don't want to be one of those people who warns against something solely for the sake of being able to say "told you so" and moving the goalposts to ensure I end up being right. I just think, objectively, knowing what we know currently, it be real dumb
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Dec 19, 2022 01:06
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It is also worth noting that Elon did walk back or mitigate several of the changes that people warned would cause trouble. Mostly to then break something else, but he has been at least attempting to Jerry Rig and Bandaid up the glaring issues he's created. Also he's working what's left of his workforce like slaves. So people saying firing [x] employees or gutting [x] features are going to crash Twitter aren't actually being proven wrong. Those things largely haven't fully happened the way they were warning about.
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Dec 19, 2022 02:06
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With US corporate finance, any weird state of affairs that isn't unsustainable insolvency can be spun as success, especially when a company has been taken private the way Twitter has. It can be a completely horrible website, but as long as certain accounting metrics can be goosed without breaking the law, there will be a ton of MBAs who see the guy as a hero doing the right thing.
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Dec 19, 2022 02:24
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Can't wait for this not to go the way he expects. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604617643973124097?t=gGvba2rHlSnCd6td4I1M_Q&s=19
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Dec 19, 2022 02:52
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Gyges posted:Can't wait for this not to go the way he expects. Yes will win by a ton and then he'll say "Lol, I tweeted that on opposite day"
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Dec 19, 2022 03:17
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Gyges posted:Can't wait for this not to go the way he expects. https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1604631246470287360 It actually is going the way he expects it to. The Saudis ordered him to come to the World Cup finale, crushed his balls up in their private penthouse box with Jared Kushner and told him "get the gently caress off of Twitter or we'll end you", and he's now trying to gnaw his own leg off to get out of the snare trap he's found himself in.
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Dec 19, 2022 03:18
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If I used Twitter, I'd vote no. He bought this ship, he can sink with it.
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Dec 19, 2022 03:19
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Elon musk has made a 'should I resign' poll within an hour of the world cup final. this is a brilliant master stroke that proves wrong all those people who said that musk's twitter wouldn't survive the world cup
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Dec 19, 2022 03:34
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It seems pretty likely he’s going to hire a new ceo regardless of the poll but just craves the attention. He already posted some coy winking bullshit like “ohohoho, be careful what you wish for” when yes started pulling ahead.
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Dec 19, 2022 03:42
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captain of the titanic posting a twitter poll 'should the captain really go down with the ship'
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