War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

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cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

December 15-18 round-up

Best articles of the pack:

NYT has done a very in-depth piece on the Russian side of early war preparations. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/16/world/europe/russia-putin-war-failures-ukraine.html (Summary version: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/17/world/europe/russia-war-putin-facts.html)

FT has done an in-depth piece on Russian response to the economic sanctions. https://www.ft.com/content/fe5fe0ed-e5d4-474e-bb5a-10c9657285d2

RUSI did an investigation with Vazhnye Istorii and Reuters on how Russia circumvents sanctions to buy parts and materials for building Orlan drones. https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/orlan-complex-tracking-supply-chains-russias-most-successful-uav https://storage.googleapis.com/isto...paet/index.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/global-supply-trail-that-leads-russias-killer-drones-2022-12-15/

The rest of the articles:

NYT journalists went on patrol with a Ukrainian recon crew in Bakhmut. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/world/europe/bakhmut-ukraine-russia-war.html

They also did a nice piece on Russian consent manufacturing apparatus. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/technology/russia-state-tv-ukraine-war.html

Wired has put a piece about defensive GPS spoofing and jamming in Russian cities. https://www.wired.com/story/gps-jamming-interference-russia-ukraine/

LA Times has a story on how Amazon Web Services evacuated the data of Ukrainian government earlier this year. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-12-15/amazon-ukraine-war-cloud-data

According to NYT, the earlier announced training mission expansion in Germany would grow not just in the sense of hosted Ukrainian headcount, but also shifting emphasis from basic training + foreign equipment to combined arms tactics. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/world/europe/ukraine-troops-training-pentagon.html

WSJ claims that China has recently decided to strengthen cooperation with Russia. https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinping-putin-china-russia-relations-11671030896

NATO and EU are on the cusp of a decorum breakthrough. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-nato-joint-pledge-back-ukraine-war-russia/

Putin has done a visit to the operational HQ for the war in Ukraine (the headquarters themselves are rather unlikely in Ukraine). https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/17/world/europe/putin-ukraine-war-headquarters.html

WaPo says that Ukraine can expect getting some kind of GPS makeover kits for dumb plane bombs. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/14/ukraine-smart-bomb-jdams/

Apparently, Wallace has said on Times Radio that Ukraine might get Storm Shadow cruise missiles (250 km export, 500 km+ domestic variant). https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-brytanija-postachannya-ukrajini-raket-storm-ahadow/32178073.html

Economist did several interviews.
- Zelenskyy https://www.economist.com/zelensky-transcript
- Zaluzhny https://www.economist.com/zaluzhny-transcript (https://www.economist.com/zaluzhny-profile)
- Sursky https://www.economist.com/syrsky-interview
- Yermak https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/12/15/volodymyr-zelenskys-chief-of-staff-on-how-to-end-war-in-ukraine
- Summary of Zelenskyy, Zaluzhny, and Sursky stuff https://www.economist.com/ukraines-fateful-winter
- Sign-off piece for this all https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/12/15/a-looming-russian-offensive

From Zaluzhny's interview:

quote:

I know that I can beat this enemy. But I need resources. I need 300 tanks, 600-700 IFVs, 500 Howitzers. Then, I think it is completely realistic to get to the lines of February 23rd. But I can�t do it with two brigades. I get what I get, but it is less than what I need. It is not yet time to appeal to Ukrainian soldiers in the way that Mannerheim appealed to Finnish soldiers. We can and should take a lot more territory.

From Syrsky's:

quote:

On several occasions, he was actually senior in the chain of command to Valery Zaluzhny, appointed to be the commander-in-chief of the entire armed forces in July 2021. Some political actors behind the scenes may be using that fact in an apparent attempt to foment tensions between the two. Rumours even persist that the presidential administration might be inclined to replace the popular but independent-minded General Zaluzhny with his former boss. Cracks of disunity have high-placed Western military officials worried. The two generals on their part say they fully trust each other and wish to stay out of politics. General Syrsky is uncomfortable with the conversation. �The army is outside of politics,� he says. �It is how it should be, and how the law demands it to be.�

# ? Dec 19, 2022 12:33

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# ? May 24, 2024 11:42

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

I didn't see any further details in the telegram link, would the Iranian 152mm shells have been presumably taken from the seizure of the ship(s) going to Houthis?

# ? Dec 19, 2022 13:12

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Alan Smithee posted:

I didn't see any further details in the telegram link, would the Iranian 152mm shells have been presumably taken from the seizure of the ship(s) going to Houthis?

That's from CIT's December 15-16 dispatch, and offers no further context, I'm afraid.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 13:26

Barrel Cactaur: Oct 6, 2021

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Crimean servicemen will be doled out land plots in Crimea. https://lenta.ru/news/2022/12/14/besplatnyye_uchastki/

Literally classic settler colonialism. Empty land, move in population, call yourselves pioneers.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Seems like there's some manner of serial production of a low-bed technicals going on in Russia. https://t.me/russ_orientalist/12855

I at first generously thought those were Metis M mounts but a close look seems to be one of the heavy machine-guns, probably remounting either right hand feed KPVs or KORD 6p51 or 6p50-3. That basket is the right size for the beltbox and the lack of traverse and stabilization gear and forward mounting makes me doubt its a decent ATGM mount.

Also im not sure russia can produce new Metis M units anymore.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 14:47

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

The Zaluzhny interview is an excellent read, and actually tells us quite a lot. 300 tanks and 600-700 IFVs is ~10 mechanized brigades worth of hardware. He mentions that he [paraphrased] "cannot do it with two [brigades]". Some of the very early Jomini of the West maps were fairly indicative of what Ukraine had for operational reserves in each sector: about one (1) brigade each near Kharkiv, in the Donbass, and outside of Odessa. The Odessa operational reserve seems to have been committed during the Kherson offensive. A lot of TDF brigades have been deployed since the start of the war, but those are mostly light, motorized infantry formations, and don't seem to have a lot of organic armor or artillery.

From Zaluzhny's comments I surmise that Ukraine really only has a couple mechanized brigades as a mobile, operational reserve, but believes with 10--and with more artillery ammunition and missile ammunition--he could push back to the Feb 24 border. We can also surmise, then, that Russia also has limited operational reserves. They've stabilized the front-line much as Ukraine has done: with large numbers of light infantry.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 15:29

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Jasper Tin Neck posted:

A lot of doubt has been expressed regarding the poor state of the Russian mobilized troops, which some posters have loudly dismissed as Ukrainian propaganda, especially in light of reports of the continuous onslaught in Bakhmut.

The British military reporting site Wavell Room has put together a piece, together with journalist Yuri Butusov that explains how it is possible to reconcile this supposed weaknesses of the troops with the pressure on Bakhmut.

Basically, Wagner commanders use drones and radio to monitor and direct recruits to their targets, like RTS waypoint commands. They're not quite human wave/zerg rush attacks, but not far from it either:

Yeah, this tracks with other reports of Russia using constant small-scale probing attacks on that front. Not to overwhelm the defenders with bodies, just trying to fix their positions and prevent them from being able to rest and regroup.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 16:04

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

The Moldovan head of intelligence says Russia plans to attack Moldova next year. He seems to be very sure of it, too.

(in Romanian)
https://tvrmoldova.md/article/a35b0...nului-2023.html

quote:

ALEXANDRU MUSTEAȚĂ, Director of the Intelligence and Security Service: 'The question is not whether the Russian Federation will make a new offensive towards the territory of the Republic of Moldova, but when it will happen: either at the beginning of the year, January, February, or later, March, April. But from the information we have, the Russian Federation intends to go further. Their aim is to creating a land corridor to the Transnistrian region (the territory of the Republic of Moldova), and then, with a certainty, we can say that yes, they intend to connect [occupied territories]. What will follow afterwards, their intentions in relation to Chisinau, is not that conclusive, but this is a real and very high risk.'

# ? Dec 19, 2022 16:39

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Paladinus posted:

The Moldovan head of intelligence says Russia plans to attack Moldova next year. He seems to be very sure of it, too.

(in Romanian)
https://tvrmoldova.md/article/a35b0...nului-2023.html

They are already in Moldovan territory, apparently he means connecting with Transnistria & annexing it all by attacking through... Kherson, Mykolaiv and Odesa. It was one of the original war goals but I'm not sure how he comes to the conclusion that this is likely to ever occur now.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 16:53

Budzilla: Oct 14, 2007; We can all learn from our past mistakes.

Nenonen posted:

They are already in Moldovan territory, apparently he means connecting with Transnistria & annexing it all by attacking through... Kherson, Mykolaiv and Odesa. It was one of the original war goals but I'm not sure how he comes to the conclusion that this is likely to ever occur now.

Use Russian troops stationed in Transnistria to attack Ukraine through to Odesa? A dumb move in a war full of dumb moves and a dumb war itself.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 17:17

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

This is tangential to Ukraine, but may be another sign of how much the war is costing Russia internationally:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-defence-companies-talks-sell-vietnam-helicopters-drones-sources-2022-12-15/

quote:

HANOI, Dec 15 (Reuters) - U.S. defence firms have discussed supplying military gear, including helicopters and drones, to Vietnam in talks with top government officials, two sources with knowledge of the dialogue told Reuters, a new sign the country may reduce its reliance on Russian arms.

[...]

The discussions show the United States' growing efforts to gain influence with Hanoi, nearly half a century after the end of the Vietnam War. Since an arms embargo was lifted in 2016, U.S. defence exports to Vietnam have been limited to coastguard ships and trainer aircraft, while Russia has supplied about 80% of the country's arsenal.

[...]

Sources and analysts said Vietnam is also considering deals with suppliers from Israel, India, and European and Northeast Asian countries. In the last decade, Israel has been the second-biggest seller of weapons to Vietnam after Russia.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 17:27

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

If the "peacekeepers" there counted for anything then I think they would have already moved during the early stages of war, but afaict the Russian garrison there is tiny, certainly insufficient to contemplate attacking a city as big as Odesa, and the strip itself is so narrow that Ukrainian artillery could easily whack all of the zone.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 17:34

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Jasper Tin Neck posted:

A lot of doubt has been expressed regarding the poor state of the Russian mobilized troops, which some posters have loudly dismissed as Ukrainian propaganda, especially in light of reports of the continuous onslaught in Bakhmut.

The British military reporting site Wavell Room has put together a piece, together with journalist Yuri Butusov that explains how it is possible to reconcile this supposed weaknesses of the troops with the pressure on Bakhmut.

Basically, Wagner commanders use drones and radio to monitor and direct recruits to their targets, like RTS waypoint commands. They're not quite human wave/zerg rush attacks, but not far from it either:

WARNING! LINK CONTAINS SOME DRONE IMAGES OF LIKELY DEAD BODIES!
https://wavellroom.com/2022/12/15/the-battle-for-bakhmut/

Nobody is doubting that the mobiks are miserable and barely trained, the point is that the Russians are placing the current level of pressure on Ukraine despite these shortcomings. They clearly have a system that sort of works - they are holding on to Ukrainian territory and making normal life in Ukraine difficult, and the pressure is on the Ukrainians to figure out how to improve their situation more so than on the Russians. The Russians have electricity.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:11

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Were chatting with my cousin, who lives and was born in raised in Kyiv. He has unfathomable opinions on the war.
-The war is 90% the fault of Ukrainian nazi's. Russia has a historical duty to fight nazis anywhere, if the west had not done a coup and installed a 100% nazi junta this war would not be needed.
-Most of the war crimes are fake news, and while tragic that his own city is being bombed its not the Russian's fault it's the west and their local nazi allies that have forced Russia into the war. The blood is on their hands, not russia.
-Here is a picture of a snowman with an SS symbol on it, this proves Ukraine is 100% nazi and the war totally justified.
-Nazi's are the most vile and dangerous thing in the world based on the most evil ideology ever.
Cousin's ideology:
-Democracy doesn't work and simply gets corrupted by (((them))) so a strong paternal leader is best.
-Society must return to traditional values, wokeism and lgbt will destroy us all if we don't stamp out this degeneracy.
-Orthodox values and culture are best and the church must play a strong guiding role in society. Godlessness is degeneracy.
-A society is only as good as its strength and power of its men, feminism is a ploy to emasculate and weaken societies leaving their women unprotected.
-There are active plots to destroy the white race and western culture and replace them with the asiatic hoards or race mixing.
-Kyiv is a russian speaking city, all the Ukrainian speaking people are colonizers that need to go back to Lviv. Zelensky sent them here as part of a great replacement to genocide russian culture.

Absolute expert at fighting nazi ideology. It's insane what russian propaganda can do to people. There's no arguing with him either because "I live here and experience the true reality, you're in Canada and only have western propaganda"

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:23

Burns: May 10, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

Were chatting with my cousin, who lives and was born in raised in Kyiv. He has unfathomable opinions on the war.
-The war is 90% the fault of Ukrainian nazi's. Russia has a historical duty to fight nazis anywhere, if the west had not done a coup and installed a 100% nazi junta this war would not be needed.
-Most of the war crimes are fake news, and while tragic that his own city is being bombed its not the Russian's fault it's the west and their local nazi allies that have forced Russia into the war. The blood is on their hands, not russia.
-Here is a picture of a snowman with an SS symbol on it, this proves Ukraine is 100% nazi and the war totally justified.
-Nazi's are the most vile and dangerous thing in the world based on the most evil ideology ever.
Cousin's ideology:
-Democracy doesn't work and simply gets corrupted by (((them))) so a strong paternal leader is best.
-Society must return to traditional values, wokeism and lgbt will destroy us all if we don't stamp out this degeneracy.
-Orthodox values and culture are best and the church must play a strong guiding role in society. Godlessness is degeneracy.
-A society is only as good as its strength and power of its men, feminism is a ploy to emasculate and weaken societies leaving their women unprotected.
-There are active plots to destroy the white race and western culture and replace them with the asiatic hoards or race mixing.
-Kyiv is a russian speaking city, all the Ukrainian speaking people are colonizers that need to go back to Lviv. Zelensky sent them here as part of a great replacement to genocide russian culture.

Absolute expert at fighting nazi ideology. It's insane what russian propaganda can do to people. There's no arguing with him either because "I live here and experience the true reality, you're in Canada and only have western propaganda"

And he still lives in Kiyv? Maybe his neighbours might like to have a talk with him.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:29

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

re: nazi expert cousin

when in danger, when in doubt
double down til you flame out

'Kyiv is a colonized Russia city' is so out there my brain is leakin out of my ears, so..i guess you win this round, cousin fella.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:35

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

Burns posted:

And he still lives in Kiyv? Maybe his neighbours might like to have a talk with him.

I wonder if this could be reported to the authorities, it seems like guys like this will be a big problem if there's a renewed offensive in the North this winter.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:41

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Baronjutter posted:

Were chatting with my cousin, who lives and was born in raised in Kyiv. He has unfathomable opinions on the war.
-The war is 90% the fault of Ukrainian nazi's. Russia has a historical duty to fight nazis anywhere, if the west had not done a coup and installed a 100% nazi junta this war would not be needed.
-Most of the war crimes are fake news, and while tragic that his own city is being bombed its not the Russian's fault it's the west and their local nazi allies that have forced Russia into the war. The blood is on their hands, not russia.
-Here is a picture of a snowman with an SS symbol on it, this proves Ukraine is 100% nazi and the war totally justified.
-Nazi's are the most vile and dangerous thing in the world based on the most evil ideology ever.
Cousin's ideology:
-Democracy doesn't work and simply gets corrupted by (((them))) so a strong paternal leader is best.
-Society must return to traditional values, wokeism and lgbt will destroy us all if we don't stamp out this degeneracy.
-Orthodox values and culture are best and the church must play a strong guiding role in society. Godlessness is degeneracy.
-A society is only as good as its strength and power of its men, feminism is a ploy to emasculate and weaken societies leaving their women unprotected.
-There are active plots to destroy the white race and western culture and replace them with the asiatic hoards or race mixing.
-Kyiv is a russian speaking city, all the Ukrainian speaking people are colonizers that need to go back to Lviv. Zelensky sent them here as part of a great replacement to genocide russian culture.

Absolute expert at fighting nazi ideology. It's insane what russian propaganda can do to people. There's no arguing with him either because "I live here and experience the true reality, you're in Canada and only have western propaganda"

I am sincerely curious about the specifics of your cousin's social groups and media diet that he's all the way down the pit.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:41

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

So does this guy spend his entire life looking over his shoulder 24/7 for jackbooted Nazi thugs coming to drag him off to the camps or is he just blissfully unaware of the dissonance between his beliefs and his day to day life?

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:44

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Discendo Vox posted:

I am sincerely curious about the specifics of your cousin's social groups and media diet that he's all the way down the pit.

We finally found out who the Russian spy network were spending billions of $ to influence. Baronjutter's cousin.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 18:45

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Nenonen posted:

We finally found out who the Russian spy network were spending billions of $ to influence. Baronjutter's cousin.

Well, part of what makes Russian propaganda work in the US (and I believe elsewhere) is that it taps into existing fringe groups, and can form a subculture unto itself. Figuring out how these groups arrange themselves (and thus how to break them up and cut off their feeds and onboarding practices) is an evergreen issue, whether it's involving Russian propaganda-based nuttery or, say, antivaxx.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 19:11

Fuligin: Oct 27, 2010; wait what the fuck??

slurm posted:

I wonder if this could be reported to the authorities, it seems like guys like this will be a big problem if there's a renewed offensive in the North this winter.

Burns posted:

And he still lives in Kiyv? Maybe his neighbours might like to have a talk with him.

very gross

# ? Dec 19, 2022 20:58

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Nenonen posted:

They are already in Moldovan territory, apparently he means connecting with Transnistria & annexing it all by attacking through... Kherson, Mykolaiv and Odesa. It was one of the original war goals but I'm not sure how he comes to the conclusion that this is likely to ever occur now.

It would be an absurd operational concept, but maybe Russia thinks they can push from Brest in Belarus and cut Kyiv and territories east off from western aid at the same time they link up with Moldova?

# ? Dec 19, 2022 21:11

Jasper Tin Neck: Nov 14, 2008; "Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

aphid_licker posted:

Nobody is doubting that the mobiks are miserable and barely trained, the point is that the Russians are placing the current level of pressure on Ukraine despite these shortcomings. They clearly have a system that sort of works - they are holding on to Ukrainian territory and making normal life in Ukraine difficult, and the pressure is on the Ukrainians to figure out how to improve their situation more so than on the Russians.

It's hard to see the current stalemate as a positive sign for Russian military. It enjoyed a huge advantage in equipment reserves that it has so far utterly failed to bring it to bear in an effective manner.

Both sides are now slugging it out with mostly light infantry, but Ukraine has identified the issue and unlike Russia, has demonstrated a capability to use resources in a coordinated and effective manner once they become available.
https://twitter.com/justartsndstuff/status/1603431992137338880

Meanwhile, Russian vehicle and ammunition stocks are rapidly being depleted, especially the newer stuff, leading to increasingly obsolete equipment being pulled out of storage.

aphid_licker posted:

The Russians have electricity.

...For now. Before the war, Russia imported a great deal of heavy machinery, components and electrical equipment from Europe. Sourcing and switching over to unfamiliar Chinese components is easier said than done for utilities that weren't in great repair to begin with.

Mobilizing utility workers doesn't help, either.
https://mobile.twitter.com/chriso_wiki/status/1599043912861106176

The assertion that time and attrition favour Russia appears dubious to me.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 21:21

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Everyone's second favorite crybaby and prolific tankie Poster turned artillery operator Murz dropped a banger outlining continuing troubles of Russian army

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1604882364269731840?t=W8Pjqs_DPhvJdn_9yxgQwg&s=19

Choice parts: tanks replacing stationery artillery, officers insisting at making grenade drones just because they saw UA videos, crowdfunding for ERA packs

# ? Dec 19, 2022 23:38

DTurtle: Apr 10, 2011

Jasper Tin Neck posted:

The assertion that time and attrition favour Russia appears dubious to me.

A lot of people seem to equate the Russia of today with the Soviet Union of the 1980s, when instead the Russia of today is only a fraction, with the military surviving on the stockpiles created by (and ruining) the Soviet Union.

# ? Dec 19, 2022 23:39

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

fatherboxx posted:

Everyone's second favorite crybaby and prolific tankie Poster turned artillery operator Murz dropped a banger outlining continuing troubles of Russian army

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1604882364269731840?t=W8Pjqs_DPhvJdn_9yxgQwg&s=19

Choice parts: tanks replacing stationery artillery, officers insisting at making grenade drones just because they saw UA videos, crowdfunding for ERA packs

quote:

The first and main condition for any successful defense is the presence of stable command and control. The Armed Forces of Ukraine ensured this to the maximum, transferring the entire army to closed digital communications and spreading a huge number of repeaters along the front line. The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation do not want to solve their problems with communication. They don�t even want to voice them, because voicing leads to broken careers, confiscation of stolen goods, and prison sentences. All they can offer the troops, who now need to dig into the ground, is wired communication, for which the troops themselves must find both cable and field telephones (there is no discussion of field switches). And, of course, these field lines are being laid� in full accordance with the guidelines for laying temporary field lines. Somewhere just across the field, elsewhere along the trees, elsewhere along the poles. TEMPORARY loving LINES! In the projects of the cyclopean �Faberge Line,� there is no place for normal underground cable communications protected from shelling! Having all the equipment, the materials, the time, all the infantry in positions will still remain without wire communication after five minutes of shelling. Exactly as it was with the Red Army in the summer of 1942 in the breakthrough sector during Operation Blau. But that is only, of course, if the infantry at all manages to find a field cable on its own in order to lay this connection at least somehow, And spare parts for field telephones are sent to the army by volunteers, bought up at flea markets.

Is it... normal for 21st century armies to rely on cables for comms? Or are the RUaF uniquely hosed in this respect? :psyduck:

# ? Dec 19, 2022 23:56

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

In Finnish army we still used a lot of cable communications. It makes signal intelligence and frequency jamming ineffective.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:02

Orthanc6: Nov 4, 2009

Deltasquid posted:

Is it... normal for 21st century armies to rely on cables for comms? Or are the RUaF uniquely hosed in this respect?

Probably option B.... buuuutttttt in this information era and with the entirety of the US infosec apparatus laser focused on you, having hard-cable comm lines that can't have signals intercepted seems like it might be worthwhile.

But yeah, it's probably Russia running out of modern comm equipment. Just imagine how much of that they lost running away from Kyiv and Kharkiv.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:03

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Yeah I was gonna say. Same reason navy officers learn celestial navigation

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:10

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Nenonen posted:

In Finnish army we still used a lot of cable communications. It makes signal intelligence and frequency jamming ineffective.

My understanding was that yeah, If the situation is at the point where you are stationary enough that they are feasible then they are pretty solid because of the above mentioned reasons.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:11

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

Orthanc6 posted:

Probably option B.... buuuutttttt in this information era and with the entirety of the US infosec apparatus laser focused on you, having hard-cable comm lines that can't have signals intercepted seems like it might be worthwhile.

But yeah, it's probably Russia running out of modern comm equipment. Just imagine how much of that they lost running away from Kyiv and Kharkiv.

They not able to get a hold of the unsecure Chinese stuff anymore?

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:13

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Orthanc6 posted:

Probably option B.... buuuutttttt in this information era and with the entirety of the US infosec apparatus laser focused on you, having hard-cable comm lines that can't have signals intercepted seems like it might be worthwhile.

But yeah, it's probably Russia running out of modern comm equipment. Just imagine how much of that they lost running away from Kyiv and Kharkiv.

I'd think cable would be used for defensive locations and forward bases, ideally places that aren't going to be on the move a whole lot. Using cable for an offensive operation? Probably less than ideal.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:30

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Deltasquid posted:

Is it... normal for 21st century armies to rely on cables for comms? Or are the RUaF uniquely hosed in this respect?

That�s an old old preference. Back in WWII old the Russian military had a strong preference to not use radio and instead run physical cables. That was a big big item (water proof telephone wire ) sent to Russia by the US during the war. The reasoning I�ve seen is that to intercept the communications you have to physically get to the wire. Trucks, AVgas, telephone wire, and radios were the big to Russia via Murmansk cargoes.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:34

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Deltasquid posted:

Is it... normal for 21st century armies to rely on cables for comms? Or are the RUaF uniquely hosed in this respect?

Relying, no. But field telephones are reasonably common. Ukraine received 3000 FF OB/ZB and thousands of wire drums from Germany, for example.

In an environment where radio can be located or jammed having wire-based comms is pretty useful.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:35

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Telsa Cola posted:

My understanding was that yeah, If the situation is at the point where you are stationary enough that they are feasible then they are pretty solid because of the above mentioned reasons.

Even when you are on the move a bit, while a cable won�t talk vehicle to vehicle, it�s seriously fast and easy to set up a basic cable comm line. A bit more tome and education for one with proper phone numbers and switchboards. But to run a line to the commander�s sleeping point or to run a line between two fighting positions is basically the time it takes to jog that far plus about 1 minute, so it�s very fast and easy to set up and tear down at short halts or doing recon or pulling security.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 00:46

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Deltasquid posted:

Is it... normal for 21st century armies to rely on cables for comms? Or are the RUaF uniquely hosed in this respect?

Surprisingly, yes. At least as of the early 2000s the US Army still used wire-based field telephones. A lower EM signature is a Good Thing and Worth Doing, though it does take extra work, such as hiding the lines from enemy observers, and protecting them from indirect fire.

Of course, if they're just grabbing standard phone wire that poo poo can be read with fairly modest equipment a few hundred meters away. You're supposed to use shielded wire.

All that said, I don't know how much the US uses it anymore. My understanding is that we started pushing radios down to the Fire Team Leader level. I.e. 1 out of every 4 infantry soldiers. I suppose light truck companies and the like might not have a radio in every single truck, but in combat units every single vehicle has at least one radio, and often two.

In summary, using hardlines isn't by itself signs of a despondently-equipped army. Using only hardlines is, though.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 01:39

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

We saw examples earlier in the war of the Russian attempt to develop and distribute encrypted radios, which consisted of buying commercial Chinese radios and putting them in a new plastic case.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 01:42

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

I think that may have been a LARP/reenactment thing.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 01:44

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Morrow posted:

We saw examples earlier in the war of the Russian attempt to develop and distribute encrypted radios, which consisted of buying commercial Chinese radios and putting them in a new plastic case.

The case thing is what airsoft people and other larpers use. The case makes an already limited in functionality radio virtually unusable in any real combat situation because it literally covers all of its front buttons, but you only need one button for games and it looks cooler that way. It's very unlikely that it was something that a lot of Russian soldiers were equipped with, if any.

# ? Dec 20, 2022 01:49

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# ? May 24, 2024 11:42

Loucks: May 21, 2007; It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.

Morrow posted:

We saw examples earlier in the war of the Russian attempt to develop and distribute encrypted radios, which consisted of buying commercial Chinese radios and putting them in a new plastic case.

Wow, that�s crazy. Got a source for this?

# ? Dec 20, 2022 04:14

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

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