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Youremother posted:Go do a Fascist Harry run, the fascism quest is unironically one of the best in the game ....urge to do a fascist playthrough is rising.
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Dec 20, 2022 22:45
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I could never do a fascist playthrough because I don't want to make Kim mad at me 
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Dec 20, 2022 22:49
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Youremother posted:That guy was a hero
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Dec 20, 2022 22:51
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If she was so capable she would've made herself bulletproof. System is working as intended.
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Dec 20, 2022 22:53
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If she did, that jerk would have used a necktie cocktail or something. Hate finds a way.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:00
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Maybe Dolores should have predicted the bulletproof vest if she didn't want to get merked so hard. And here we see the living proof:Rogue AI Goddess posted:Moralintern is a ship that was meant to be helmed by a living goddess, not by a committee. No wonder it has drifted so far off course. that when you scratch a Moralist, a Fascist bleeds!
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Dec 20, 2022 23:06
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Youremother posted:Maybe Dolores should have predicted the bulletproof vest if she didn't want to get merked so hard. quote:when you scratch a Moralist Moralism is as much of a failure as Communism. They had hope for a moment, and then some bigot with a hunting gun took that hope away. All of the money and artillery and prize stability and CONTROL can't bring that hope back. Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 23:15
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:I am not a Moralist. I am a Dolorean. "Once we get to the End of History, you're going to see some serious poo poo"
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Dec 20, 2022 23:17
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Username checks out
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Dec 20, 2022 23:21
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Women who are wearing something other than a full T-500 Fairweather suit are not, in fact, asking to be shot. What if the full realization of her project would have been even worse?
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Dec 20, 2022 23:23
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:He did not shoot her because he wanted to stop war crimes or to save people, but because her body was literally and figuratively too hot. And as a result of this murder, the fate of the world fell into the hands of mere men whose vision started and ended with mineral extraction rights. Moralintern is a ship that was meant to be helmed by a living goddess, not by a committee. No wonder it has drifted so far off course. Username checks out strongly lol I mean, the metacommentary from the game is that she was acting just like a 4X player after all, having access to the tech tree and being a living skip requirements cheat code. It is absolutely appropriate that she got owned by her own praetorians because she couldn’t bother figuring out people, which is amazingly in the spirit of her ideology. Sola is the best Innocence and it’s a pity the game talks so little about her. Just realizing her condition and going “you know what I am going to be sitting here and not do a thing” to not force history is pretty interesting, especially since in a rough equivalence of timeframes and historical contexts, that would make her the Innocence of Postmodernism.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:25
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Women who are wearing something other than a full T-500 Fairweather suit are not, in fact, asking to be shot. The whole point of moralism is that there is no hope for a better future, the incremental progress is a lie to justify stasis.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:37
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Just connected another "pale as climate change" thought -- with Dei doing the whole magpie thing of bringing future information to the present and how that all ties in with the expansion of the Pale -- they're literally stealing the future so that the present can profit. Neat.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:44
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Women who are wearing something other than a full T-500 Fairweather suit are not, in fact, asking to be shot.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:10
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christmas boots posted:Just connected another "pale as climate change" thought -- with Dei doing the whole magpie thing of bringing future information to the present and how that all ties in with the expansion of the Pale -- they're literally stealing the future so that the present can profit. Yup! The political economy in environmental terms is almost the same in terms of consequences. Dolores catapulted humankind forward and possibly triggered runoff Pale expansion as a consequence lmao A good question that is very neat to ponder is whether those Innocences were aware that stealing poo poo from possible futures necessarily cause a Pale cost. Sola not doing anything might be just because she was the only one to figure that out.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:18
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Tarezax posted:Username checks out Cpt_Obvious posted:The whole point of moralism is that there is no hope for a better future, the incremental progress is a lie to justify stasis.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:33
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Isn't Sola just The End of History?
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Dec 21, 2022 00:39
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Esprit Dei Corps is my signature skill. Which is why I buy into Dolores Dei as Harry's ex-wife, symbol or otherwise. Persisting in a doomed timeline bereft of her magnificence due to being a sorry cop is... something I can sympathize with 
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Dec 21, 2022 00:51
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mossyfisk posted:Isn't Sola just The End of History? The end of history would be the death of the failed communards, so whoever ruled over that.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:53
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Youremother posted:Go do a Fascist Harry run, the fascism quest is unironically one of the best in the game Please don't turn me into a fascist. The communist quest was so heart touching and the moralist quest was awesome world building... what does fascism have to offer that makes it worth the cost?
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Dec 21, 2022 01:21
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It's really funny imo
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Dec 21, 2022 01:24
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cgeq posted:... what does fascism have to offer that makes it worth the cost? The last person in the game you would expect to having a frank, sincere, one-on-one conversation with Harry about the one thing that's ACTUALLY bothering him.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:38
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Woe-man
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Dec 21, 2022 02:14
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Does the magpie stuff ever get mentioned in the game? I don't recall it ever being brought up or hinted at.christmas boots posted:What if the full realization of her project would have been even worse? What's interesting is this is the same fear that motivated the Moralintern to launch Operation Death Blow. What if success is more dangerous than failure? dead gay comedy forums posted:Sola is the best Innocence and it’s a pity the game talks so little about her. Just realizing her condition and going “you know what I am going to be sitting here and not do a thing” to not force history is pretty interesting, especially since in a rough equivalence of timeframes and historical contexts, that would make her the Innocence of Postmodernism. Honestly, Sola reads more like a moralist to me. When confronted with the ability and opportunity to radically reshape society, shrugging and not wanting to rock the boat is precisely what the Moralintern would recommend.
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Dec 21, 2022 03:49
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The Magpie stuff is only from extra-canonical concept art. You can see the ideas for it in the game if you look carefully and read between the lines, but it's not actually in there.
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Dec 21, 2022 04:29
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The communist quest was pretty soft for a game with such pent-up revolutionary energy. I guess it’s appropriate that most of it takes place in a book club but that it centers on two random dudes paradropped into the game for the quest feels like a missed opportunity for the existing characters.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:53
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Youremother posted:The Magpie stuff is only from extra-canonical concept art. You can see the ideas for it in the game if you look carefully and read between the lines, but it's not actually in there. It's also from the book! (different contextualization to consider, of course) Sierra Madre posted:Honestly, Sola reads more like a moralist to me. When confronted with the ability and opportunity to radically reshape society, shrugging and not wanting to rock the boat is precisely what the Moralintern would recommend. I do also agree with this read which, for example, goes along with what Sartre and others levied against Foucault and his crew about postmodernism. Even though there is some merit in its foundation, to be a rejection of all grand narratives in an equally grandiose form somehow manages to become especially convenient against the revolutionary ideal. There's an approximation there that can be made with Moralism from Elysium, in the sense that the postmodern attitude which was first intellectual did become a generalized affect in neoliberalism. It's a good call! dead gay comedy forums fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 06:59
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Vegetable posted:The communist quest was pretty soft for a game with such pent-up revolutionary energy. I guess it’s appropriate that most of it takes place in a book club but that it centers on two random dudes paradropped into the game for the quest feels like a missed opportunity for the existing characters. I felt this as well. It was underwhelming.
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Dec 21, 2022 07:13
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cgeq posted:Please don't turn me into a fascist. The communist quest was so heart touching and the moralist quest was awesome world building... what does fascism have to offer that makes it worth the cost? The fascism quest reflects the game's fascism: The only ideology that explains why women won't date you and your life is a mess. In the fascism vision quest, you talk to some of the worst characters in the game (who aren't space marines) and learn what makes them human, their inner core, their beautiful secrets, and why they've shut their hearts off from the world. Also you might get Fascist Secret Magic, which is fun! If you don't want to be racist, you can just be sexist and nationalist instead. You only need four Fascist Points to unlock it, after all.
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Dec 21, 2022 07:15
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So here's a question: Is the amnesia and ego death Harry suffers in the game permanent, or will he eventually revert back to the same rear end in a top hat he's always been?
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Dec 21, 2022 10:21
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McCloud posted:So here's a question: Is the amnesia and ego death Harry suffers in the game permanent, or will he eventually revert back to the same rear end in a top hat he's always been? They discuss toward the end that this kind of thing has apparently happened at least twice before if I remember correctly. Presumably, this time would be the one that sticks and that he won't gently caress himself this bad enough for a fourth since either Jean and co. trust him enough to let him back on the force or Jean tells him to get his poo poo together and call him back in a few months' time if he can do it, which would imply that Jean has enough faith that Harry has a chance to not let this kind of thing happen to him again.
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Dec 21, 2022 10:32
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A Bystander posted:They discuss toward the end that this kind of thing has apparently happened at least twice before if I remember correctly. Presumably, this time would be the one that sticks and that he won't gently caress himself this bad enough for a fourth since either Jean and co. trust him enough to let him back on the force or Jean tells him to get his poo poo together and call him back in a few months' time if he can do it, which would imply that Jean has enough faith that Harry has a chance to not let this kind of thing happen to him again. Yeah I think one of the saddest bits of the game is when when in the last dream Harry's wife hints strongly that you've done this before and it works for a few days before the dreams about his wife start again and they are what drags him back into the pit. I would have liked some kind of more direct hint that this time Harry is going to get his poo poo together.
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Dec 21, 2022 11:40
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My understanding of it was that the hosed-up dreams about the ex-wife and the drinking-induced memory loss are just two different things that can happen to Harry, and the former just happens so much more for him than the latter.
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Dec 21, 2022 11:54
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I mean I think the way around that is for Harry to ignore all remembrances of Dora. He sleeps a peaceful sleep and truly moves on.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:11
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Youremother posted:
IIRC, someone in this very thread mentioned a long while ago that the black square is actually how the halo used to be represented in old Orthodox christian iconography.
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Dec 21, 2022 15:20
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Zeniel posted:I mean I think the way around that is for Harry to ignore all remembrances of Dora. He sleeps a peaceful sleep and truly moves on. He has one night of peaceful sleep. I don't think you can say he actually moves on, and avoiding reminders of Dora forever is basically impossible when "reminders of Dora" includes the wrong brand of gum or iconography of the most prominent religion in the world.
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Dec 21, 2022 15:25
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persopolis posted:IIRC, someone in this very thread mentioned a long while ago that the black square is actually how the halo used to be represented in old Orthodox christian iconography. Orthodox Christians struggling with alpha channels
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Dec 21, 2022 15:34
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persopolis posted:IIRC, someone in this very thread mentioned a long while ago that the black square is actually how the halo used to be represented in old Orthodox christian iconography. quote:Square halos were often used to represent living donors who made possible the execution of a given work of art (namely, a mosaic or a church). Most of the characters we find surrounded by square halos are, in fact, popes and abbots, who commissioned the construction of a church, a public building, or some other work related to liturgical art. These square halos, then, are but an indication of a contemporary figure (with no implication of sanctity attached to them necessarily), to distinguish them from saints who might be accompanying them in the image. In fact, the square shape was understood in Christian art as representing the earth (with its four directions) and earthly existence, as opposed to the circle, understood to be a symbol of infinite existence and, hence, of eternal life. https://aleteia.org/2019/10/27/there-was-a-time-in-which-square-halos-were-a-thing-in-christian-art/ There's a LOT of art training in the backgrounds of the DE devs, so I'm assuming they'd be aware of this, but that doesn't mean they were necessarily meaning to use the square halo in this fashion. I think the implication is that Jean is your partner but ultimately a lesser man than Kim.
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Dec 21, 2022 15:56
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Kim is a very different kind of moralist than the others, and his portrait reflects that.
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Dec 21, 2022 15:59
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WrightOfWay posted:He has one night of peaceful sleep. I don't think you can say he actually moves on, and avoiding reminders of Dora forever is basically impossible when "reminders of Dora" includes the wrong brand of gum or iconography of the most prominent religion in the world. Exactly. It is obviously not a narrative accident that Harry cannot find peace because he is tormented by the lost promise that the past once held.
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Dec 21, 2022 16:22
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