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I don't like to compare them either, just for how different they are. loot, lore, and perspective aside, they may as well be entirely different games. I think they're both great. I think Diablo 4 is going to turn out the same way: very different from i ts predecessors.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:
GD at least has pretty solid controller support these days, at least over on Steam. The basic mappings are pretty not-terrible, and it's trivial to remap poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:21
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Cyrano4747 posted:GD at least has pretty solid controller support these days, at least over on Steam. The basic mappings are pretty not-terrible, and it's trivial to remap poo poo. oh I should give that a try then, thanks!
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Dec 20, 2022 14:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:oh I should give that a try then, thanks! Path of Exile also has controller support now, as of like 6 months ago.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:34
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Mymla posted:I played all 3 diablo games on my own, solo self found for the most part, and I think diablo 2 is the best by far. Diablo 1 is kind of its own thing, and I think you can make a pretty strong argument that it's better than the other two even, but they're not really comparable tbh. This is, essentially, false. Diablo 2 is a solved game. It has been 100% figured out for 20+ years, and the recent patches and additions to D2R like Sunder Charms have only succeeded in solidifying what is already an extremely rigid class and item hierarchy. "Dealing with immunities" is a false choice because of the way endgame farming works. You either create a character that can handle all the content or just ignore the stuff you can't along whatever predetermined farming route you're doing. I've played both games for thousands of hours, love them both in their own way, but the so-called depth of Diablo 2 at least for how it compares to D3 is largely illusory, obscured through the relative rarity of certain items and runes.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:47
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", but it's pretty important imo. Like I said, D3's plot was bad enough that deleting it was an improvement, and the general aesthetic reminds me of off-brand league of legends more than anything.
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I just leveled a hardcore seasonal character to T4 and I didn't encounter another person the entire time. Are players really not playing D3 anymore? It said there was 0 players for every mode and difficulty I tried.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:21
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i pretty much never ran into people on hardcore. the lacklustre mp experience of d3 is one of the most disappointing aspects of it sucks because hc is the only way i can have the remotest fun in the game
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Dec 20, 2022 15:23
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It's pretty late in the season, so a lot of activity has dropped off. It also won't pair you with people of different difficulties. This late in the season I'm not surprised (even in HC) that people aren't playing T4.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:45
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Most of the people still playing D3 in 2022 have it down to such a science that they are in T16 by the end of the first night. I'm slow and it takes me a few days to get there, but anything under T6 was like a ghost town within a week, and soon its all T13/T16.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:12
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be nice if they'd just show some player population data for each difficulty, something for the d4 suggestion box i guess
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Dec 20, 2022 16:14
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kliras posted:be nice if they'd just show some player population data for each difficulty, something for the d4 suggestion box i guess We need like a dark souls player ghost running past you doing some dope poo poo
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Dec 20, 2022 16:17
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The D4 version of the Horadric cube will only give you the weakest roll available for your cubed skill instead of the strongest. It will also not allow all skills to be cubed. I think it also actually replaces the original skill your item had with the new one. I feel like this emphasis on item hunting is just trying to lengthen the grind for people in order to maximize "engagement", i.e., monetization. They are just disguising it as trying to make loot rewarding.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:34
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there's no cube involved and that process can be applied to rares.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:35
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exquisite tea posted:This is, essentially, false. Diablo 2 is a solved game. It has been 100% figured out for 20+ years, and the recent patches and additions to D2R like Sunder Charms have only succeeded in solidifying what is already an extremely rigid class and item hierarchy. "Dealing with immunities" is a false choice because of the way endgame farming works. You either create a character that can handle all the content or just ignore the stuff you can't along whatever predetermined farming route you're doing. I've played both games for thousands of hours, love them both in their own way, but the so-called depth of Diablo 2 at least for how it compares to D3 is largely illusory, obscured through the relative rarity of certain items and runes. Or you can ignore the "endgame farming" poo poo and just play the game to have fun instead of optimizing high runes per hour. I've done some limited farming at times, but as far as I'm concerned, once I beat baal on hell the game is over for that character.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:39
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Mymla posted:Or you can ignore the "endgame farming" poo poo and just play the game to have fun instead of optimizing high runes per hour. I've done some limited farming at times, but as far as I'm concerned, once I beat baal on hell the game is over for that character. Yeah if you ignore endgame farming there are a ton of builds to try to kill Baal with. Solo self found means each character has hours of meaningful progression on the way there. I've got nothing against players who prioritize endgame, but the endgame is very specific and grindy in Diablo 2 and I think a lot of people are shooting themselves in the foot aiming for that. I like spending my time trying to get through Hell Baal and any play after that is gravy.
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Dec 20, 2022 17:22
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Yeah i picked up d2 remastered having never played 2 and i had a great time playing through it once i realised farming enigma was a waste of time
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Dec 20, 2022 23:01
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The gameplay mechanics and feel of D3 are awesome. The issue is that the endgame is really arcade shallow, but I suspect it's mostly due to tech limitations of its engine and their brute force way of fixing the early issues of loot 1.0. A modern version of that engine is a strong foundation for amazing gameplay possibilities, just need strong story writing, bigger multiplayer, and creativity for progression possibilities. The seasons I really enjoyed had mechanics that were eventually killed off due to numbers being too drat big. It still feels good to play, just gets very samey after you redo the same sets and GRs hundreds of times, as seen when seasonal participation dies off after 1-2 weeks every time.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:29
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I was hoping D4 would take the good parts of D3 and make a more fleshed out game with them. D3 was massively popular at some point, and the only reason people lost interest is because they stopped updating it. Then they did some trickle of updates for the true d3 players, but it's nothing compared to what their competition was doing. And by competition I don't just mean the obvious 500lb ARPG people play, even stuff like Destiny, Warframe, etc is competition to an ARPG these days. I really like D3. The arcade part is great, the kmmo-like gameplay without the kmmo bullshit is great, and it's a fun game. They just kinda stopped developing it. Cancelled an expansion. All of that stuff. D4 doesn't look good, but maybe they can shape it into something not-terrible in a few years. It just seems weird they'd try to do a bunch of stuff people realized was a bad idea 10+ years ago instead of iterating on the core concepts of one of their two all-time great ARPGs. Jezza of OZPOS posted:Yeah i picked up d2 remastered having never played 2 and i had a great time playing through it once i realised farming enigma was a waste of time The nice thing about D2 is you can do the whole game with random garbage you find without really grinding anything. That's one of the game's strongpoints, even by modern standards. It's not poisoned by designers looking to min-max your playtime or add filler garbage or put your power level on strict rails. The faux-mmo eternal grind part of it was great 22 years ago but doesn't have the same staying power/magical hold on people today. Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 00:07
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Ya know, I even remember D2 being a fairly rough experience at launch. The expansion did a lot and then 1.10 kind of turned everything into what it is today.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:32
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Khorne posted:It just seems weird they'd try to do a bunch of stuff people realized was a bad idea 10+ years ago instead of iterating on the core concepts of one of their two all-time great ARPGs. The internet has spent over a decade telling them that D3 killed the franchise. Literally every single part of it, including its current state, is a massive failure and should have just been Diablo 2 2. quote:Self-finding anything involving high runes or ultra rare items in d2 is a bad idea. Sometimes an item or two comes to you, but for the most part you need to trade to get stuff like that. Number one reason why I will never play anything balanced around that again. I don't like turning games into a business in 2000 and with shrinking game time I've only grown to hate it more. I think at one point in the past I cheated up an endgame D2 character, said "huh, well that's a thing" and dropped it. No way in hell I'd grind however many thousands of hours it'd take to SSF up to the point where I could do that legit. Played through story three times (one more than D3, at least), listened to silly grimdark story, watched cutscenes, done. Meanwhile, in this season of D3 alone (and I got in late) I've played a single class, gone through four different builds (not counting alternative farming configs) to finally arrive at the thing I'll be pushing with. Maybe I'll make it to 120, maybe I won't, but it'd been great and at no point did the next tier feel impossible to reach. I also didn't have to haggle, track a market, use some website to buy/sell, or even talk to a single other person to do it. I'll jump back in on day one for season 28.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:16
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D4 is marketed, especially at first directly to the d2 grognards who have never once shut the gently caress up about how much they hate d3 and d2 is superior. Even if a lot of the core base is d3. And the grognards, having been appealed to, will comment how great all these d4 ideas are, while not knowing or ignoring that they came from d3.
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Dec 21, 2022 03:18
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Video game companies are inherently conservative. The Internet lost its fuckin poo poo at how colorful and cartoony Diablo III was, that it looked too much like World of WarCraft. Its first four months were just such a wretched experience for most people that it took the console version and Reaper of Souls to right the ship. The executives cared more about their feelings being hurt than the record-breaking sales it was making regardless, and said it's back to grimdark grey and brown and making it look like Dark Souls. And then after six years of people pledging their undying loyalty to the Plumber and gating your nostalgia in his walled-in garden, it turns out tastes changed with time and we wanted the bright and colorful graphics after all.
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Dec 21, 2022 03:55
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We wanted Marvel Heroes but it was taken from us 
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Dec 21, 2022 03:57
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If you want cartoony graphics, Torchlight is right there 
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Dec 21, 2022 03:59
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big cummers ONLY posted:We wanted Marvel Heroes but it was taken from us  gradenko_2000 posted:If you want cartoony graphics, Torchlight is right there It's not the cartoony graphics we want. It's the  we want.
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Dec 21, 2022 04:13
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On the plus side, the internet whining gave us whimsyshire
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Dec 21, 2022 04:37
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I imagine internet whining will have minimal effect on whether or not the game is good or bad. D3 came out and was colorful and sucked and then they fixed it and now it's colorful and good. I like all 3 games and appreciate how different they are but 2 is probably my favorite. I was surprised how well it held up in D2R and when I get the Diablo itch that's what I go back to. If you consider "done/won" as beating Baal on hell, it's perfectly fine to play without trading. I've slowly been working towards that with all classes. Think I might do druid over holiday break. Anyway, I caught up with the thread and read that Washington Post article. While the most damning thing is the crunch, which absolutely blows and I don't know why it still happens when other software industries have figured it out, I also know that unfortunately existed in all the previous games too. It's the complete lack of direction from leadership that's likely to make the game suck. Blizzard used to iterate forever and throw out old work to come up with something good, but that is definitely not the sense that comes from that article.
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Dec 21, 2022 04:55
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So yeah Blizz finally got me with the 20€ for everything bundle. For first timers, story mode is ok I hope? And checking that season box? Assuming the chars get converted to non-ladder anyway in a few months, like it was in D2. Happily bashing and smashing things with the Barbarian, fells great so far 
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Dec 21, 2022 06:51
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sauer kraut posted:So yeah Blizz finally got me with the 20€ for everything bundle. yes, and yes
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Dec 21, 2022 06:57
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I'm still entirely confused as to where the idea that D2 "isn't colourful" comes from. Game has plenty of colour!
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Dec 21, 2022 12:52
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What you remembered in your head: Reality: 
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Dec 21, 2022 13:30
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I think it was primarily an overreaction to the idea that Diablo was going to turn into WoW, and that the recently merged Activision-Blizzard was going to ruin it.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:41
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Bobfromsales posted:I think it was primarily an overreaction to the idea that Diablo was going to turn into WoW, and that the recently merged Activision-Blizzard was going to ruin it. They were right about that part, it'd just take longer than launch to do it.
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Dec 21, 2022 14:10
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ultrachrist posted:While the most damning thing is the crunch, which absolutely blows and I don't know why it still happens when other software industries have figured it out, I think it's a bit of a mis-characterization to say other industries have figured it out. Plenty of software devs have tons of crunch time, no matter the industry. The worst places to work in Nashville are Parking Central and Ausurion - like, their reputation proceeds them. It's where people to go to work when they need a job RIGHT NOW to hold over for 3 months while they search for somewhere better. To your point though - I definitely agree that it's more accepted, if not outright expected, in game development. I think the reason why is simply because the developers love the idea of working on games. poo poo, when I was high school, my thought process was literally "become a software dev and make games". The latter never happened once I saw how badly devs are treated there (not only all the OT, but lots of "burn and fire, try to rehire 6 months later when the production pipeline has caught up", lots of freelance without benefits, etc). So yeah, I just noped on out of that and write boring website applications. I really think it's just passion, then you get used to it, then everyone is doing it, and managers and accounting and whatever sure like $$$ (although, who doesn't), then it becomes expected, so better get it done now! Versus trying to make everyone care passionately enough to crunch for Yet Another Forms Over Data app...gently caress off, I'll go elsewhere! Bobfromsales posted:I think it was primarily an overreaction to the idea that Diablo was going to turn into WoW, and that the recently merged Activision-Blizzard was going to ruin it. I wasn't in the hyperbolic reaction crowd (I even enjoyed D3 in launch - but I also stopped as soon as I got to Inferno mode or whatever, which I think was a couple of times through the campaign?). But in general, Iwasn't a fan of the art style. The "smooth blurry texture" art style of WoW definitely isn't my favorite choice for Diablo, but it's definitely the aesthetic Blizzard prefers. The "too colorful" thing is just...nonsense, lol. That D3Dark direct x stuff made it more appealing (these days you'd just use ReShade). I was (and am) burnt out on the typical Blizzard art style though. I know they love it, and it probably helps keep PC requirements low.
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Dec 21, 2022 17:23
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Dameius posted:They were right about that part, it'd just take longer than launch to do it. Activision is such a shithole outfit that being bought by Microsoft would have probably been an improvement. That being said, as a general rule, all the people who did the things you liked from the past are gone. xZAOx posted:I was (and am) burnt out on the typical Blizzard art style though. It doesn't affect me as much in D3 due to my mind being too occupied with forward movement and timing instead of the art style. Outside of that, though, I would also be happy if that sort of weirdly exaggerated cartoon look died. If everyone wants an edgelord graphic design... fine. Make D4 look like Cult of the Lamb and I'd be cool with that. Cel-shaded, pixel art, hyper realistic... don't care. As long as it's fun the art will quickly blur into the background and only bigger number will remain. I did get a laugh at the character creator, though, knowing someone will spend hours getting their look just right only to immediately slap on armor and look the same as everyone else.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:59
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Barbie Doll Mode is the most important part of an ARPG. That is actually one thing that I hope gets improved on, more so through not having each class have their most pivotal skills gated behind a model swap. But also a more robust transmog game. Honestly if they had just given us China's cash shop with just the cosmetics and not the power, I'd have spent some extra money with D3.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:28
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Dameius posted:Barbie Doll Mode is the most important part of an ARPG. That is actually one thing that I hope gets improved on, more so through not having each class have their most pivotal skills gated behind a model swap. But also a more robust transmog game. That's honestly what I"m concerned about, that they'll lock whatever their version of the current transmog system is behind the cash shop. It's the lowest hanging fruit for monitization these days.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:36
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Cyrano4747 posted:That's honestly what I"m concerned about, that they'll lock whatever their version of the current transmog system is behind the cash shop. Yeah it's the nature of the beast that something is going to get gated behind real money shop, and with it being Activision there will absolutely be 'edging the line of so unethical it invites congressional focus' amounts of fuckery in that cash shop. But I'm also hoping there will still be lots of stuff outside of it. While I just said I'd have tossed some money to D3, D4 will release in such a different world that it'll be a harder sell to justify spending money in my mind.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:53
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While I support transmog I'm also fine with having to live with the consequences of looking goofy in the best possible armor.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:07
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exquisite tea posted:While I support transmog I'm also fine with having to live with the consequences of looking goofy in the best possible armor. D2 1.09 when every Amazon, Paladin, and Barbarian was wearing a neon green Vampire Gaze. Actually, that owned - nevermind.
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Dec 22, 2022 01:07
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