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Electric Wrigglies posted:I think it is America and some authoritarian countries that have their leader salute military people? Generally speaking, the top solider within a defense force will be reporting to a civilian within the department of defense. Saluting and all that jazz is to keep discipline and ensuring hierarchal control within the uniformed personnel, not for civilian leadership which should be well above that sort of stuff. President is technically commander in chief so that’s partly why.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:24
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Paladinus posted:In Eastern European countries (and in some other places) the rule is you don't salute unless you have some sort of military headgear on your head. That's the rule in the US armed forces as well, but I guess politicians are going to politic.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:25
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Telsa Cola posted:I think it's a fair claim that every country is reassessing what they deem "sufficent" as a reserve in case a war breaks out after watching the impact of the last 300 days on multiple nations military supplys, yes. I think you're speaking very authoritatively about a topic you don't know much about. So I'll willingly admit that I'm no military expert, and I'm sure some people in this thread can elaborate better than I can, but there are some main categories of "supply issues": 1. Obsolete/out-of-production hardware that NATO dumped on Ukraine at the beginning of the war, but they used up so much of it that production lines need to be created again (Stinger missiles) 2. Warsaw Pact leftovers from the Cold War, so there's only so much left to go around in NATO countries (BMPs/T-xxs/MiGs, 152mm artillery shells) 3. Equipment that doesn't really fit with past American military doctrine, so there was no massive stockpile or production capacity to begin with (artillery shells in general, specifically precision-guided shells, AGMs) 4. Equipment with a long production time and no real need for a massive stockpile, so there really is only so much to go around (Patriot batteries) As far as I am aware, Abrams tanks fit none of those categories, and the reason why Ukraine hasn't received those is due to training/logistical/maintenance issues, not because the US military is terrified of China storming the beaches in SoCal.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:President is technically commander in chief so that’s partly why. I think in the US it only really started with Reagan, who was all about the performance.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:43
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https://mobile.twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1605609320283922434 https://mobile.twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1605609865623265286 Lots of useful stuff (but no dumb 155mm shells?)
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Dec 21, 2022 21:43
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I can't help but like these little gift exchanges, even under the circumstances.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:49
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December 19-21 round-up Deep dives: Russian journalists did a case study on the Russian volunteers' typical experience of war. https://zona.media/article/2022/12/20/way Belarus journalists have worked through a sanctions-busting scheme for Belarus lumber exports to Europe. https://investigatebel.org/en/investigations/belaruski-les-abyhodzic-sankcyi-pa-falshyvyh-dakumentah Ukrainska Pravda has been tracking various Wagner members, arriving at a conclusion that some of the people on frontlines are those from the attempted bust in 2020 (see https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2021/11/17/inside-wagnergate-ukraines-brazen-sting-operation-to-snare-russian-mercenaries/). https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2022/12/21/7379589/ Regular news: The Hill suggests that US is going to do some manner of half-designation of state sponsor of terrorism for Russia. https://thehill.com/policy/international/3782940-congress-aims-to-label-russia-aggressor-state-instead-of-state-sponsor-of-terrorism/ Shoygu is signalling new offensive opportunities for Russia. https://www.rbc.ua/ukr/news/orban-znovu-zaklikav-peregovoriv-ssha-ta-1671626611.html Russia is showcasing a supposed Starlink terminal detection station, with 10-kilometre radius. https://t.me/freedomf0x/18679 Putin says that the military will receive unlimited budged for the war, and overall the army size is supposed to be increast to 1.5m (roughly 25% increase). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-21/putin-vows-no-limit-in-funds-to-ensure-army-s-victory-in-ukraine Zelenskyy is visiting Washington today (Wednesday), with Patriots being the expected announcement. https://www.ft.com/content/e106d68d-0a79-4338-9343-955d8badbdf4 (Fake edit: Patriots confirmed: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/21/ukraine-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-russia-and-the-war-in-ukraine.html) quote:Secretary of State Antony Blinken has confirmed reports of a new aid package to Ukraine, which will consist of $1 billion drawn under a special State Department authority, and another $850 million from the Department of Defense. Politico further suggests that lobbying for ATACMS might be on the agenda for the visit. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/21/zelenskyy-biden-weapons-standoff-congress-00074918 Quite notably, Xi has met with Medvedev today as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/21/world/europe/china-russia-putin-xi-ukraine.html Ukraine is supposedly getting Crotale launchers from France. https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/makron-poobeschal-chto-frantsiya-postavit-ukraine-sistemy-pvo-i-sau-caesar-v-nachale-2023-goda EU has reached a gas price cap deal, setting the number to 180 EUR/MWh. https://www.ft.com/content/5b2ffae4-04d1-4e09-89ce-b85f575d8422 Russia is changing draft age bracket from 18-27 to 21-30, and to allow people to enter contract service from day 1 (you must have 3 months of experience under the current rules). https://zona.media/news/2022/12/21/shoigu Putin is visiting Belarus, for no particularly remarkable reason. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/19/world/europe/belarus-putin-kyiv.html He seems to be also beefing with Deripaska, as a Russian court has just seized some of his properties. https://www.ft.com/content/32052a11-89f3-4642-8dd4-11433a32f8a2 Zelenskyy, meanwhile, visited Bakhmut, for an awards ceremony. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/20/world/europe/zelensky-bakhmut-visit-ukraine.html Poland is planning to issue blanket amnesty to people who have fought on the Ukrainian side since 2014. https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/polish-parliament-to-grant-amnesty-to-poles-illegally-fighting-for-ukraine-since-2014/ Rybar is moving up in circles, he's now a member of the presidential workgroup on mobilization matters (alongside a whole load of bloodthirsty pieces of poo poo, like Sladkov). https://zona.media/news/2022/12/20/gruppa Putin held an address for the security services, weirdly enough saying that they're basically not doing a good enough job. Moreover, that the war is becoming “extremely complicated”. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70146 He is also complaining about potential S-300 shipment from Greece to Ukraine. https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/moscow-warns-athens-about-sending-s-300-missile-system-to-ukraine/ Cool interview on life in exile with Voskresenskiy, a famous Russian musician. https://www.ft.com/content/5ec2c45b-d048-480e-b10b-de822d97ca8c Russia is ordering Moscow Helsinki Group to close shop. https://t.me/novaya_pishet/38911 Explosion on the gas line from western Siberia into Europe, through Ukraine. https://zona.media/news/2022/12/20/gaz 100 thousand Russian passports issued to people from occupied territories in November. https://zona.media/news/2022/12/20/100k RUMoD seems to have ordered a PR campaign for whitewashing Lapin's reputation. https://www.proekt.media/guide/kremlin-telegram-meduza/ $44bn aid budget for Ukraine in the omnibus. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/20/us/politics/congress-aid-ukraine.html Putin's “headquarters” visit was indeed inside Russia, in Rostov. https://www.agents.media/putil-posetil-rostov-na-donu/ US accuses UN of bailing on Iran drone inquiry for Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-accuses-un-yielding-russian-threats-over-iran-drone-inquiry-2022-12-19/ Other summaries: https://notes.citeam.org/dispatch-dec-19-20 https://notes.citeam.org/dispatch-dec-17-19 https://notes.citeam.org/mobi-dec-19-20 https://notes.citeam.org/mobi-dec-18-19 https://notes.citeam.org/mobi-dec-17-18 https://zona.media/chronicle/301 https://zona.media/chronicle/300 https://zona.media/chronicle/299 https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-20 https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-19 https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-18
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Dec 21, 2022 21:49
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Killer robot posted:I think in the US it only really started with Reagan, who was all about the performance.  It's because the President is C-in-C and to display civilian control over the armed forces (the president always receives a salute, never initiates or has to return one). Edit: Supposedly it became "common place" with Reagan from a quick Google, but president's have been returning salutes well before (though not required). BadOptics fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 21:55
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Long thread with some first impressions on Shoigu's speech https://twitter.com/MassDara/status/1605659107880538141?s=20&t=2MhSAMo364XdgQ4ZOvIOwQ
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Dec 21, 2022 22:21
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OddObserver posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1605609320283922434 The tank rounds and Grad rockets are interesting. I'm assuming the tank rounds are for the Soviet/Russian tanks the Ukrainians use and Grads are a Russian designed system as well. I don't think the US produces any of these? I wonder where they are getting them from.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:21
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Charliegrs posted:The tank rounds and Grad rockets are interesting. I'm assuming the tank rounds are for the Soviet/Russian tanks the Ukrainians use and Grads are a Russian designed system as well. I don't think the US produces any of these? I wonder where they are getting them from. USAI funding goes through contracting. So the USG may not even know where they are coming from yet or when.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:25
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/19/palantir-algorithm-data-ukraine-war/ Interesting piece about battle management software used in Ukraine.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:41
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Biden/Zelensky conference about to go live
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Dec 21, 2022 22:44
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:That's the rule in the US armed forces as well, but I guess politicians are going to politic.  You only initiate a salute if you're wearing a cover, but can return a salute regardless of wearing a cover. Unless you're reporting to someone. That is: formally presenting yourself. This is generally reserved for formal things such as courts martial, reporting for duty for the first time, etc. Fun fact: if you're armed, you wear your cover indoors. Thus, wearing a cover indoors is basically a quick visual identifier for "this person is armed." But in general, civilians saluting is gauche at best and at worst implies the military is not subordinate to the civilian and I wish they would stop doing it. mlmp08 posted:USAI funding goes through contracting. So the USG may not even know where they are coming from yet or when. It allows countries who for one reason or another don't want to be seen supplying Ukraine to supply Ukraine. I wonder if in several years we'll find out that Uzbekistan or something was supplying Ukraine with ammunition via the US as a proxy.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:49
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https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/1605686804971245568 e: https://twitter.com/margbrennan/status/1605689477355245569 Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 23:11
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^^ that was pretty funny Biden shooting ATACMS down.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:24
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https://twitter.com/mj_lee/status/1605692273617866752
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Dec 21, 2022 23:33
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:^^ that was pretty funny They are so good at that maybe US can ship some American politicians to use as missile defense.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:41
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/19/palantir-algorithm-data-ukraine-war/ Fwiw, Palantir promises a lot, looks flashy in some scenarios, but I havent heard a whole lot of good about it. It's like Oracle in that a good implementation takes a ton of work and gets the job done buts it cumbersome and actually awful if it isnt fed clean data.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:43
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Telsa Cola posted:I think functionally infinite is an extremely bold claim given the supply issues observed so far, without even discussing how many are actually avaliable for transfer without undercutting whatever necessary reserve stock amount is deemed necessary, especially in a time with heightened world tensions. USA specifically has a large stock of F-16:s and M1:s that are fully functional and surplus to requirements. (F-16's because squadrons are transitioning to F-35's, and M1:s because the USMC decided they don't want tanks.) In addition to that, there are a lot of M1's that can be repaired to operational capacity because they were somewhat overbuilt because of industrial policy concerns, and so there are thousands in depots in various conditions. The reasons why F-16 and M1 Abrams are not provided are either political, or caused by concerns about standing up maintenance and training systems, not because of lack of availability. F-16 specifically would be a substantial step up for Ukrainian capability, because it can mount modern fox-3 missiles, which is a capability Ukraine currently lacks. And the last time I talked about this, I was talking about 3 weapons systems, with the third being patriot. So clearly things can change. With Patriot, things probably changed because the Ukrainians are starting to run low of S-300 missiles, and there is no ready supply of them outside of Russia. (Ironically, in Russia they are extremely plentiful. They are using them as very lovely cruise missiles because it's the one long-range munition they have thousands upon thousands warehoused.)
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Dec 21, 2022 23:49
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Paladinus posted:In Eastern European countries (and in some other places) the rule is you don't salute unless you have some sort of military headgear on your head. I don't know about other parliamentary monarchies but it is customary in Belgium for military members to salute to the king, as he is technically also the supreme commander of the armed forces (and it's why many members of the royal household study at military academies before studying at any other civilian university - especially the heir-apparent). The UK has similar traditions, I believe.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:52
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Hannibal Rex posted:Long thread with some first impressions on Shoigu's speech This strikes me as getting to the core of the Russian problem, which is the assumption that everything can be done all at once if you just order people to do it. It's the thinking that leads them to concurrently try to rebuild and expand their divisions while simultaneously grinding them down in Somme-like battles of attrition. It's the thinking that lead to simultaneous assaults on Kharkov, Kiev, and (although it never got close) Moldova. It's the thinking that says you try to hold Kherson by thinning out the front lines until they collapse. Of course the end result is the dilution of force when they can't conjure 400,000 well trained troops out of thin air.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:04
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 BBC posted:We reported earlier on the military award that Zelensky gave to Biden during their meeting - we've got more details on that now. Yeah it's choreographed propaganda, still made me smile.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:10
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Tuna-Fish posted:USA specifically has a large stock of F-16:s and M1:s that are fully functional and surplus to requirements. (F-16's because squadrons are transitioning to F-35's, and M1:s because the USMC decided they don't want tanks.) In addition to that, there are a lot of M1's that can be repaired to operational capacity because they were somewhat overbuilt because of industrial policy concerns, and so there are thousands in depots in various conditions. One thing im kind of surprised about is that not even export varient Abrams (like the ones we gave Iraq, or the Saudis) are being considered to be offered to Ukraine. But like others have said, Abrams tanks are probably not the game changer a lot of people think they will be.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:12
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Charliegrs posted:One thing im kind of surprised about is that not even export varient Abrams (like the ones we gave Iraq, or the Saudis) are being considered to be offered to Ukraine. But like others have said, Abrams tanks are probably not the game changer a lot of people think they will be. Well, it's not a question of some sort super-weapon, it's a question of enough tanks.... And things are probably way better with them than IFVs and artillery.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:14
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OctaMurk posted:Fwiw, Palantir promises a lot, looks flashy in some scenarios, but I havent heard a whole lot of good about it. It's like Oracle in that a good implementation takes a ton of work and gets the job done buts it cumbersome and actually awful if it isnt fed clean data. Yeah it's basically a press release of an opinion piece. idk who makes the actual software solution Ukraine uses (e, upon further research appears to be domestically produced 'Delta' system made by a Ukrainian defense research institute) but it is generally very well regarded and routinely is cited as an incredibly powerful and easy to use tool for, like, basically everything. Dude who wrote that piece is practically a stenographer for palantir, so I guess that explains the focus kinda interesting actually that that piece barely mentions Delta (and related programs) as barely even a footnote when they're widely cited by both sides as one of the significant factors behind Ukrainian successes.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:15
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On to Capitol Hill: https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1605703967115079680 https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1605704873625804800 Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 00:20
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More of a personal note, but we got the family out of Russia. It was some doing and not everything done was legal, but they're out of Russia. He's 59 so technically still of draft age and people absolutely do get shook down trying to leave russia at that age and forced to pay big bribes or just denied exit so we were a bit worried. We told them not to move to Russia, we begged them, but they didn't listen. Then again they owned a house just outside of Bucha so maybe this horrible move actually saved their lives. What a hosed world we're living in.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:23
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mlmp08 posted:USAI funding goes through contracting. So the USG may not even know where they are coming from yet or when. So I'm assuming this is where international arms dealers who normally operate illegally and draw the ire of interpol get protection from the US govt in exchange for using their network and connections to arm Ukraine. There HAS to be a lot of that going on and I suspect many smaller nations waging war all over the world are finding their arms expenditures go through the roof as it quickly becomes apparent the US Govt is hoovering up whatever Soviet equipment is in circulation for use in a full blown land war. If there's any truths to that movie "Lord of War" it would be ironic if the weapons raided from the Ukrainian arms bunkers in the 1990s for sale abroad made their way back to Ukraine for use against Russia. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 00:25
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Baronjutter posted:More of a personal note, but we got the family out of Russia. It was some doing and not everything done was legal, but they're out of Russia. He's 59 so technically still of draft age and people absolutely do get shook down trying to leave russia at that age and forced to pay big bribes or just denied exit so we were a bit worried. We told them not to move to Russia, we begged them, but they didn't listen. Then again they owned a house just outside of Bucha so maybe this horrible move actually saved their lives. What a hosed world we're living in. I'm glad they're safe. https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1605705768036081665 This is what they're looking at, it's super neat.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:27
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Kraftwerk posted:So I'm assuming this is where international arms dealers who normally operate illegally and draw the ire of interpol get protection from the US govt in exchange for using their network and connections to arm Ukraine. I meant more that it might just be paying someone to build new ones, not international weapons smuggling.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:49
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Charliegrs posted:One thing im kind of surprised about is that not even export varient Abrams (like the ones we gave Iraq, or the Saudis) are being considered to be offered to Ukraine. But like others have said, Abrams tanks are probably not the game changer a lot of people think they will be. It's not that Abrams is a wonder weapon it's that sooner or later the available old warsaw pact stuff in eastern europe will run out and the US is really the only country sitting on reserves of tanks, planes and artillery. The Polish think tank Polish Institute of International Affairs put out a report going over the needs of Ukraine with estimates of whats been sent and what is availble in eastern european countries. https://twitter.com/PISM_Poland/status/1605222011541884928
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Dec 22, 2022 00:52
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Zelensky's address is about to get started.
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Dec 22, 2022 01:25
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President Zelenskyy is about to speak in Congress in a few minutes.
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Dec 22, 2022 01:25
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Moon Slayer posted:I'm glad they're safe. Specifically it looks like they're looking at the Apotheosis of Washington: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apotheosis_of_Washington Or, possibly, a specific element from the frieze of american history (can't tell which segment) Here's a decent camera rotation of the rotunda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p7nqkFyrR8 I think this link will give you a google photosphere of it: https://earth.google.com/web/data=CjESLxIgM2I4YTA4ZWJmMTkyMTFlN2FjOTVmZjI4ZTRmZDY5ZTYiC3ZveV9wb2ludF81
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Dec 22, 2022 01:33
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Baronjutter posted:More of a personal note, but we got the family out of Russia. It was some doing and not everything done was legal, but they're out of Russia. He's 59 so technically still of draft age and people absolutely do get shook down trying to leave russia at that age and forced to pay big bribes or just denied exit so we were a bit worried. We told them not to move to Russia, we begged them, but they didn't listen. Then again they owned a house just outside of Bucha so maybe this horrible move actually saved their lives. What a hosed world we're living in. Read that with a kid who would've been a mobik* playing with my own kids right next to me and just, congrats. Instead he's going to community college half a world away. *his parents got the papers even, lmao mr putin, ghosted
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Dec 22, 2022 01:40
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It's a good speech.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:03
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Ugh, watching this address is all  It's getting dusty in here, especially after the exchanging of the flags.I don't know how anyone can sit there in Congress and not want to give this guy a zillion dollars and a million ATACMS.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:05
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That speech was absolutely fantastic. Zelenskyy could not have possibly done more for his country than that speech today.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:10
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