|
vyelkin posted:hearing a bunch of anti-bail stuff right now in real life conversations with people I know because it's all over the news right now that crimes are sometimes committed by people out on bail, I expect this to be the next big tough-on-crime talking point Is this a bleed over from the US. New York and Illinois have had bail reform fights so a lot of the local news in two of the biggest eastern media markets is close coverage of every crime committed by anyone on bail.
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 12:43 |
|
|
COPE 27 posted:I'm mad about crime so we should put people in jail that haven't been convicted of any crime yet iamverysmart.jpg I'm certainly not very smart but it's very cynical to say the problem is federal bail laws when there's much more to it than that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 18:23
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:Is this a bleed over from the US. New York and Illinois have had bail reform fights so a lot of the local news in two of the biggest eastern media markets is close coverage of every crime committed by anyone on bail. Probably, yeah. There's sufficient crossover between our media ecosystems that US talking points inevitably make their way up here, and when some Canadian news has relevance to US talking points (like, for example, someone on bail for firearms charges killing a police officer) the country basically gets dropped straight into the middle of a preexisting culture war without any organic buildup. Another Bill posted:I'm certainly not very smart but it's very cynical to say the problem is federal bail laws when there's much more to it than that. you obviously know this already, but it's because the feds are liberals and the province is conservative. Obviously we can't say the problem is the tough on crime conservatives in Toronto so the problem must be the soft on crime liberals in Ottawa because those are the only two options
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 20:13
|
|
|
I mean it will be cynically used by LPC to prop up their gun control measures, but also if you aren’t from southern Ontario, the racial element is a big part of it. Both insofar as the liberally inclined media has made no mention of Randall McKenzie’s ethnicity, and that the right wing is champing at the bit to. Hagersville is 15 minutes down the road from Caledonia, for the unaware, with the reserves in between. It’s not my place to get into all that, only that things between the OPP and first nations in the area haven’t been great, and between the local bumpkins and natives even less so. The killing of a Constable, and reactions to it has an unmistakable racial element. It’s like a perfect storm of things that would outrage people outside the city. Const. Pierzchala was a Militia Officer too, so they’ll probably be a combined military/police funeral. His Regiment bears honours for the NW Rebellion, so the amount of State/Crown symbols at the funeral as a juxtaposition to “lawlessness”, I mean, it really is a constellation of not-great things. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:37 on Dec 29, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 20:30
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:Is this a bleed over from the US. New York and Illinois have had bail reform fights so a lot of the local news in two of the biggest eastern media markets is close coverage of every crime committed by anyone on bail. Media in Vancouver already highlights "crime committed by guy on bail" big time when they can find it and the media manufactured it into a major issue in the recent municipal election. It's absolutely sure to be a BC Liberal talking point in the next election.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 20:45
|
|
|
I hate to say it, but bail is much preferable to him being out on a healing lodge or sentencing circle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:I hate to say it, but bail is much preferable to him being out on a healing lodge or sentencing circle. Can I ask what you mean? Bail and sentencing are two completely different parts of the process. Was he on bail awaiting appeal or something?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 23:32
|
|
|
Yeah I'd like a clarification on that point as well. The only other people I see making a comparison to Indigenous healing lodges are using it to couch some racist language. I don't think you're doing that but I'd like you to elaborate. Speaking of bail... https://twitter.com/ah_farsoud/status/1608619511279939585
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
Can we at least pretend to presume innocent until proven guilty? If this girl killed someone prove it at trial and then sentence her appropriately.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 02:55
|
|
|
well, sure, but this is commentary from a "frustrated bridge player, Bills fan, Jays fan.", reposted from twitter we're a collection of idiots discussing the news, and more to the point, this is cspam, idk what you expect for decorum here
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 03:03
|
|
|
Farsoud is the guy who made the news a few months back for being approved for MAiD for chronic pain and because he was going to be evicted. I don't think there's anything wrong with the bail system and I don't think that's the point he was trying to make (it's certainly not why I shared the tweet). The point about how the circumstances might be different if the victim wasn't an unhoused person is salient, I think. Further, not to construct a strawman but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts most of the people complaining about McKenzie's bail situation don't give a similarly-sized poo poo about the murder of a homeless person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 03:19
|
|
|
COPE 27 posted:Can we at least pretend to presume innocent until proven guilty? no, gently caress off
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 03:47
|
|
|
My point is that if you think people are outraged that the person who killed an OPP Constable literally on the road to Caledonia was out on bail, the outrage would be many times worse if they had been under an alternative arrangement for indigenous people It’s bad enough a native person is involved, it could be much worse
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 04:41
|
|
|
How about people shouldn't be in jail unless they were convicted of a crime
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 04:43
|
|
|
People who kill cops = typically innocent of misdemeanours and lesser felonies 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 04:50
|
|
|
I see what you meant now, I didn't follow you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 05:12
|
|
|
COPE 27 posted:How about people shouldn't be in jail unless they were convicted of a crime while broadly true when you're pretty sure someone is a psychotic murderer sometimes it's worth holding them until their trial date so that they don't just go murder more people
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 05:23
|
|
|
Some shithead teenager who helped murder a homeless person because they interrupted them stealing booze or whatever isn't really a huge flight or violent risk. She's not a serial killer, there's not really any reason to hold her in the mean time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 10:03
|
|
|
the real problem is the justice system can take years to prosecute someone from arrest to sentencing and it's getting worse
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 15:13
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:I hate to say it, but bail is much preferable to him being out on a healing lodge or sentencing circle. This is Saskatchewan racist uncle level dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
DariusLikewise posted:the real problem is the justice system can take years to prosecute someone from arrest to sentencing and it's getting worse It's absurd. The Jordan framework is quote:At the heart of this new framework is a presumptive ceiling beyond which delay — from the charge to the actual or anticipated end of trial — is presumed to be unreasonable, unless exceptional circumstances justify it. The presumptive ceiling is 18 months for cases tried in the provincial court, and 30 months for cases in the superior court (or cases tried in the provincial court after a preliminary inquiry). Delay attributable to or waived by the defence does not count towards the presumptive ceiling. So 18 months in most cases, but the clock only starts when charges are laid. The cops could spend a year or more investigating charges first, and then any defence delays don't count toward the 18 month number. Basically, its not unrealistic that from being suspected by the police to having your name cleared in court or sentenced that the whole process could take 3 1/2 years. Sometimes more. e: This is also why some people don't fight for bail, because 'dead time' spent in jail waiting trail often gets a 1.5x credit towards your sentence. Another Bill has issued a correction as of 15:59 on Dec 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
Cromulent_Chill posted:This is Saskatchewan racist uncle level dude. I think he means as far as how it would look. "Guy doing traditional rehabilitation uses opportunity to do more crimes" well guess what, no more sweat lodges or healing circles- or at least you'll get the real Saskatchewan uncles going, "You see?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 16:57
|
|
|
Futanari Damacy posted:I think he means as far as how it would look. "Guy doing traditional rehabilitation uses opportunity to do more crimes" well guess what, no more sweat lodges or healing circles- or at least you'll get the real Saskatchewan uncles going, "You see?" Yah I can see that and that point should have been fleshed out by FF whose past rake stepping doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt to be frank.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
Whereas I'm of the mind that such intentionally bad faith readings don't serve any purpose so my mind never even went there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
I cannot imagine living in This Country and looking at These Politics and still having the audacity to expect everyone to have Good Faith
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 17:26
|
|
|
I mean yes, that is the problem- people intentionally being a gently caress whenever given the chance, at all levels
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
You are what you post. If posters don't want to be assumed to have bad opinions about marginalized people, then they shouldn't have a history of doing that. I'd rather be called too assumptive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 17:40
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:07
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:no, gently caress off I doubt all 8 girls actually stabbed the guy, the point of charging them all was to get some of them to flip on the ones that did and that is likely what happened here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
 My bad opinion of marginalized people is that it’s good that we avoided something that would have likely forestalled hope for a resolution to the Caledonia land dispute for another generation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:23
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:
I'd wished you had explained the original remark in more depth as I've heard similar stayements with bad intent. I also wish I didn't jump to conclusions so easily and I wish I could easily accept people at face value without suspicion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
It’s all good, any number of Canadian news stories are going to have Ford Nation out for blood, all you can do is 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
Cromulent_Chill posted:I'd wished you had explained the original remark in more depth as I've heard similar stayements with bad intent. I also wish I didn't jump to conclusions so easily and I wish I could easily accept people at face value without suspicion. lol at posting like this in cspam
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:55
|
|
|
E: nvm, OP already clarified Talking with Ford Nation types (i.e. anyone who reads Warmington etc.) is a waste of time Isentropy has issued a correction as of 18:58 on Dec 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:lol at posting like this in cspam We got to the bottom of our issue without mods, that is the cspam advantage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 18:59
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:lol at posting like this in cspam StealthArcher posted:The D&Dest rear end CSPAM thread continues it's streak
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2022 21:23
|
|
|
Remember how a jail killed someone who was being detained illegally less than a week ago
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
Thankfully the Michaels are sleeping safe and sound tucked in tight to their homey beds at CSIS headquarters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 17:58
|
|
|
RBC posted:Thankfully the Michaels are sleeping safe and sound tucked in tight to their homey beds at CSIS headquarters. They are absolutely sleeping in a bunk bed in that offset L configuration
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 12:43 |
|
|
I like to think they're in two twin beds next to each other like Ernie and Bert.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 18:04
|
|
