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Bremen posted:The biggest reason I'm skeptical isn't because I don't think Russia would be so incompetent to shoot down their own jet 800km from the Ukrainian border, but because I can't see them admitting to it. I mean, they fired a BUK at a civilian airliner with it's transponder on soooo (it was a Russian supplied weapon operated by Russian protagonists, regardless of who's hands it was in) "it was cloudy" lmao
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Jan 1, 2023 05:55
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Diet Crack posted:I mean, they fired a BUK at a civilian airliner with it's transponder on soooo (it was a Russian supplied weapon operated by Russian protagonists, regardless of who's hands it was in) And they were openly bragging about it until it turned out they shot down an airliner.
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Jan 1, 2023 07:35
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Just watched Zelensky's new year address, amazingly good. Also watched Tikhanovskaya's address, not bad. And the important thing: all you tank theorists, how A2A1 will ruin bridges and who knows what. Ukraine is currently at cutting edge of war. And if they ask for tanks, you don't ask whether they deserve tanks or if said tanks will break bridges. They've already shown that they dont ruin donated equipment, they use it to maximum. It is already proven how good they are at war. They say they need tanks means they indeed need exactly tanks.
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Jan 1, 2023 07:46
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It is mindblowing to me that some goons who never been into any kind of war, while seeing how Ukraine weaponized even commercial drones say "nah, they'll just gently caress up abramses  " They know war to the extent that you never will
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Jan 1, 2023 07:57
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Sekenr posted:It is mindblowing to me that some goons who never been into any kind of war, while seeing how Ukraine weaponized even commercial drones say "nah, they'll just gently caress up abramses isis weaponized commercial drones, it isnt rocket science dude lol abrams, im sure ukraine can figure it out. especially if they can send back to western european depots for the most extensive maintenance. nonetheless, it is undoubtedly another stream of parts, ammo and training to manage.
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Jan 1, 2023 08:33
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OctaMurk posted:isis weaponized commercial drones, it isnt rocket science dude lol The US has no reason to stockpile the export version of the Abrams, and is probably loathe to send ones with the secret sauce depleted uranium armor.
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Jan 1, 2023 09:13
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Reminder that real leftists have international solidarity https://mobile.twitter.com/jamforyou_/status/1609334719660843010
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Jan 1, 2023 09:23
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Somaen posted:Reminder that real leftists have international solidarity What about all the "real leftists" who hate anarchism because it means they don't get to be Beria? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2023 10:07
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OctaMurk posted:isis weaponized commercial drones, it isnt rocket science dude lol Amazing way to say you are German without saying outright.
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Jan 1, 2023 11:29
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Because no country in central europe will repair these tanks dude lol
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Jan 1, 2023 11:32
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Sekenr posted:Because no country in central europe will repair these tanks dude lol Poland is getting Abrams repair facilities, or maybe already has some, I don’t remember.
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Jan 1, 2023 13:01
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I think an important consideration is that the facilities and training being set up (and probably to some early extent, now in place) are for the modern M1A2 (SEP v2/3) that Poland has purchased and leased (v2s for training). The talk around Abrams for Ukraine has been about older M1 models. I don't doubt there is a lot of overlap in parts and skills needed, but I am also very sure that the differences are significant enough that any decision to provide M1s to Ukraine would require an entirely separate maintenance and training infrastructure to be put in place in Poland - which might clash with the efforts relating to the modern Abrams for Poland's own military. In general I have the impression (based on the process and timeframes when Danish Leopards are upgraded/refitted) that European heavy armored logistics are struggling with being under-staffed and under-funded. Providing tanks to Ukraine may thus be not just a political and security decision, but also involve (embarrassing) practical problems, where many European NATO countries (and the arms industry in Europe) simply don't have the bandwidth to provide tanks with the requisite support, spare parts and munitions to make them combat-worthy. For all the talk of increased military spending, European countries are still working with multi-year delivery schedules and peace-time economies. Individual arms manufacturers may be hiring and adding production lines, but that's also a very slow process. I simply don't see Europe changing the current modus operandi of support for Ukraine. The US alone has the kind of military-industrial muscle to provide Ukraine with just a fraction of what they're asking for. And even then, I think Abrams are not going to happen. F-16s could happen, I think, if the war drags on. If the war drags on for years and years, anything could happen, but whether due to not expecting a multi-year war or to avoid escalation, western allies don't seem to operating with multi-year time frames in mind when providing aid.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:15
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PederP posted:I think an important consideration is that the facilities and training being set up (and probably to some early extent, now in place) are for the modern M1A2 (SEP v2/3) that Poland has purchased and leased (v2s for training). The talk around Abrams for Ukraine has been about older M1 models. I don't doubt there is a lot of overlap in parts and skills needed, but I am also very sure that the differences are significant enough that any decision to provide M1s to Ukraine would require an entirely separate maintenance and training infrastructure to be put in place in Poland - which might clash with the efforts relating to the modern Abrams for Poland's own military. To add to this, there is nothing stopping European countries from passing their own versions of lend lease so they could help Ukraine and pass money to their defense industries. Nothing except of course that those industries barely exist.
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Jan 1, 2023 18:33
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Pook Good Mook posted:To add to this, there is nothing stopping European countries from passing their own versions of lend lease so they could help Ukraine and pass money to their defense industries. Nothing except of course that those industries barely exist. If the EU were counted as a single country it would be the world's second largest arms exporter, ahead of both Russia and China. Saying that Europe's defense industry barely exists is not accurate.
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Jan 1, 2023 19:44
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I'm so used to seeing "America Bad" posting on SA that this outburst of exceptionalism regarding how Europe lacks arms manufacturing capacity is positively quaint.
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Jan 1, 2023 19:51
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Rust Martialis posted:I'm so used to seeing "America Bad" posting on SA that this outburst of exceptionalism regarding how Europe lacks arms manufacturing capacity is positively quaint. Hey the MIC is doing something good for once, broken clocks and all that
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Jan 1, 2023 19:58
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Perun did a good vid a couple of days ago covering everything that's happening with regards to ammo supply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deK98IeTjfY 
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Jan 1, 2023 20:19
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saratoga posted:If the EU were counted as a single country it would be the world's second largest arms exporter, ahead of both Russia and China. Saying that Europe's defense industry barely exists is not accurate. Well then wtf is the excuse for why the EU collectively has done so little with regards to arms and ammunition? Sum total, Europe has given less than half what the US has.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:29
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Pook Good Mook posted:Well then wtf is the excuse for why the EU collectively has done so little with regards to arms and ammunition? Europe has mass manufacturing going on, but not mass storage, would be one reason - US shipped plenty of stuff from the current equipment of their army, with large chunk of dollars earmarked for Ukraine actually being spent to refill the Javelin warehouse of Wyoming National Guard, etcetera. Another would be lack of political will, since Germany (and Switzerland to a lesser extent) are able to delay or outright block weapons shipments using their technology. If Ukraine’s supplies requirement was “yo, Europe, US just gave me 500 billion to buy tanks from you, and it’s ok to deliver things starting 2029”, the collective “EU MIC” could load it up the eyebrows. Lastly, US is the largest owner of military equipment and supplies compatible with Soviet gear, of the countries supporting it. Or was anyway, since they’ve probably cleared most, if not all of it, for good.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:36
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
This part I'm curious about. I figured all of the soviet gear the US was handing over was actually being given by former soviet allies and backfilled with NATO gear. Does the US just have warehouses of T72s in the desert?
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Jan 1, 2023 22:32
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HolHorsejob posted:This part I'm curious about. I figured all of the soviet gear the US was handing over was actually being given by former soviet allies and backfilled with NATO gear. Does the US just have warehouses of T72s in the desert? Armoured vehicles you are right about, they came through European warehouses of Poland and so on. When I said that, I was thinking more of artillery shells, weird plane parts, those Mi-17 helicopters they had, and so on. It wouldn’t surprise me to be told now that it actually has a brigade worth of T-72s conserved in Arizona, but Poland should be the main supplier on that specific line item.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:38
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https://twitter.com/ItsArtoir/status/1609659577418805249 Don't see any NWS stuff but be careful clicking through.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:50
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saratoga posted:https://twitter.com/ItsArtoir/status/1609659577418805249 Nothing graphic there either, just a couple translated statements from z-bloggers. The linking tweet, however, probably shouldn't be taken at face value without corroborating information from other sources.
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Jan 1, 2023 23:02
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Poland is getting Abrams repair facilities, or maybe already has some, I don’t remember. Of course they do, I was viciously sniping at that rear end in a top hat whom you should ban (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2023 00:03
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Sekenr posted:Of course they do, I was viciously sniping at that rear end in a top hat whom you should ban FYI "Ok, I guess." is a lovely reason for a 12 hour probation. You have a decent reason, then fine then present it but just not being able to deal with some push back isn't worth tossing off a probe.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:29
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RoyKeen posted:FYI "Ok, I guess." is a lovely reason for a 12 hour probation. You have a decent reason, then fine then present it but just not being able to deal with some push back isn't worth tossing off a probe. If only there was a way to tell what this probation was for, such as reading Sekenr's post that contains an insult against another poster, an admission of bad faith posting, and a touch of backseat modding. And literally nothing else.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:50
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RoyKeen posted:FYI "Ok, I guess." is a lovely reason for a 12 hour probation. You have a decent reason, then fine then present it but just not being able to deal with some push back isn't worth tossing off a probe. Don’t bother, CZS is the official “dictator” of the thread per Koos Group and at least one admin (Athanatos, I think) and can do whatever the gently caress he wants. Asking for accountability is a fool’s errand, if you post here know you’re at the mercy of a power-tripping dweeb who insisted they never wanted to be a mod in the first place. I had asked about another similarly-vague probe and not only did CZS refuse to elaborate they were a prick about it to boot. Then he lied about the nature of the PM conversation in QCS. Tread carefully. And based on previous behavior, I’m looking forward to a “pithy” reply to me after I’ve been proved, because CZS is a coward (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2023 01:02
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Judgy Fucker posted:Don’t bother, CZS is the official “dictator” of the thread per Koos Group and at least one admin (Athanatos, I think) and can do whatever the gently caress he wants. Asking for accountability is a fool’s errand, if you post here know you’re at the mercy of a power-tripping dweeb who insisted they never wanted to be a mod in the first place. I had asked about another similarly-vague probe and not only did CZS refuse to elaborate they were a prick about it to boot. Then he lied about the nature of the PM conversation in QCS. Tread carefully. Post / username combo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2023 01:06
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HolHorsejob posted:This part I'm curious about. I figured all of the soviet gear the US was handing over was actually being given by former soviet allies and backfilled with NATO gear. Does the US just have warehouses of T72s in the desert? I mean... maybe? the US has a LOT of poo poo stored, a LOT OF poo poo
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Jan 2, 2023 02:04
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I don't understand how people sit here and speculate as to what kind of equipment Ukraine should receive, when Ukraine has an actual equipment request list, and it's publicly available.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:24
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Nitrox posted:I don't understand how people sit here and speculate as to what kind of equipment Ukraine should receive, when Ukraine has an actual equipment request list, and it's publicly available. just because ukraine has requested stuff doesn't mean they're going to receive it, and we've seen some surprises (e.g. HARMs).
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Jan 2, 2023 02:33
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Any news on how Ukraine's air defenses have been doing? I feel like I haven't seen as many accounts of city-wide blackouts and critical infrastructure damage and the like. I'm not sure if it's because of fewer missile raids, more effective defense, or if things are still bad but are "routine" so people aren't writing stories about it anymore.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:39
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EggsAisle posted:Any news on how Ukraine's air defenses have been doing? I feel like I haven't seen as many accounts of city-wide blackouts and critical infrastructure damage and the like. I'm not sure if it's because of fewer missile raids, more effective defense, or if things are still bad but are "routine" so people aren't writing stories about it anymore. They are still getting overwhelmed, with the spillover usually looking like 10-20 cruise missiles finding their targets each wave, and that _probably_ can be mentally mapped to 10-20 power stations being taken out of operation for X days. Hence, they've been given Patriots, in addition to NASAMS, Crotales, and more things are being discussed. As far as blackouts and energy security are concerned, that has remained a topic on the daily agenda for Ukraine for weeks now, so some people may be getting desensitized to it. For instance, the chairman of the state energy company was interviewed yesterday about a possibility of a nationwide energy blackout. https://www.epravda.com.ua/news/2023/01/1/695639/ machine translation posted:Answering the question whether a total blackout is possible in Ukraine, Kudrytskyi said that theoretically it can threaten, but in practice he does not see such a danger now.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:57
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To be fair... posted:Post / username combo I laughed at that pickup Also what a petty probe. Content, I thought I'd look at an overview of what Australia has provided for Ukraine. I was looking for more information about the M133s and the Bushmasters but see quite a lot of useful stuff I didn't think of: https://www.dfat.gov.au/crisis-hub/...0its%20defence. quote:Australia’s response to Russia’s invasion
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Jan 2, 2023 08:14
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Lol what the gently caress https://mobile.twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1609678603456839686 Judgy Fucker posted:Don’t bother, CZS is the official “dictator” of the thread per Koos Group and at least one admin (Athanatos, I think) and can do whatever the gently caress he wants. Asking for accountability is a fool’s errand, if you post here know you’re at the mercy of a power-tripping dweeb who insisted they never wanted to be a mod in the first place. I had asked about another similarly-vague probe and not only did CZS refuse to elaborate they were a prick about it to boot. Then he lied about the nature of the PM conversation in QCS. Tread carefully. Stop obsessively reading this thread you dumb American loser (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2023 10:11
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cinci zoo sniper posted:They are still getting overwhelmed, with the spillover usually looking like 10-20 cruise missiles finding their targets each wave, and that _probably_ can be mentally mapped to 10-20 power stations being taken out of operation for X days. Hence, they've been given Patriots, in addition to NASAMS, Crotales, and more things are being discussed. The latest attack involved about 40 drones and Ukraine claims to have been able to down literally all of them. Of course, even downed drones/missiles can inflict damage, but if true, Russian attacks need to be something like 60-80 strong to be somewhat effective. It looks like they don't have that many on hand more often than once a fortnight either. Although my understanding is anti-air missiles actually cost way more than shaheds, so maybe the plan is to deplete Ukraine's anti-air stockpiles with cheap drones before another big attack with cruise missiles.
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Jan 2, 2023 10:39
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saratoga posted:https://twitter.com/ItsArtoir/status/1609659577418805249 Strelkov and other Ru military bloggers are conceding that there are hundreds of casualties; probably one of the most brutal strikes of the war if so, worse than the hits on barracks in early days of Ukrainian mobilization (back when Russian missiles were used on military targets). Storing munitions in the same building where a lot of soldiers are living seems like a bad idea on 11th month of war.
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Jan 2, 2023 11:09
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Yeah the munitions being stored there is truly a degree of stupid above and beyond the norm. HIMARS have been blowing up similar buildings that Russians have been ill-advisedly using as barracks or headquarters regularly for 6 months, but it's notable that this building is much bigger and much more completely destroyed than most of the HIMARS strikes. It's additionally wild because this has been telegraphed for months (as soon as the weather started getting cold and it was observed that Russians were often just taking over buildings instead of digging positions and it's just been a matter of time before something like this happens). Additionally it's hard to overstate just how not-a-secret most russian positions are. Hell a lot of the buildings that they use as barracks are literally the same buildings Ukraine was themselves using previously. Many of the others can be found simply by looking at large administration buildings or schools or gymnasiums in a given area and then noting the military trucks parked outside. In fact this obviousness became substantially worse as thousands of mobiks poured into the contested regions. it's a wild waste of life, but man it is not at all a surprise that this happened. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Jan 2, 2023 |
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Jan 2, 2023 11:39
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Paladinus posted:The latest attack involved about 40 drones and Ukraine claims to have been able to down literally all of them. Of course, even downed drones/missiles can inflict damage, but if true, Russian attacks need to be something like 60-80 strong to be somewhat effective. It looks like they don't have that many on hand more often than once a fortnight either. Although my understanding is anti-air missiles actually cost way more than shaheds, so maybe the plan is to deplete Ukraine's anti-air stockpiles with cheap drones before another big attack with cruise missiles. I thought that the attacks every two weeks was to let the Ukrainians do repairs and then have them all be destroyed all over again (to sap their morale & supplies), or was that just a conjecture by the media?  
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Jan 2, 2023 12:15
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Just Another Lurker posted:I thought that the attacks every two weeks was to let the Ukrainians do repairs and then have them all be destroyed all over again (to sap their morale & supplies), or was that just a conjecture by the media? Yeah I haven't heard much actual detail about the nature of these attacks. Knowing nothing about electricity networks for example, it seems that there's a limited number of... transformers or substations or whatever, and they're obviously not mobile and their locations cannot be kept secret, so you'd think Russia would be able to just bomb those things until enough of them are gone and the network collapses? But apparently that hasn't happened? Are the Ukrainians repairing the damage easily? Or are they able to protect all of the most important substations (or whatever) using SAMs like IRIS-T etc? Or have they built missile-proof fortifications? Or can one somehow build new transformers (or whatever) in a different location?
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Jan 2, 2023 13:33
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