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Oh, hyphz, you're starting off strong this year.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:14
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| # ? May 23, 2024 13:32 |
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One of the better thread snipes.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:27
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Trad Games Chat: just making up a problem for the game to have
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Jan 4, 2023 20:42
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Xiahou Dun posted:It's like leaving a negative review for a bicycle because you tried to eat it. Look, in my defense, that bicycle looked really tasty.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:51
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Thanks! Thanlis posted:I would strongly recommend against Feng Shui for players who want that kind of tactical defensive option. There is nothing wrong with wanting them, but Feng Shui is the wrong game. Hiding behind another character could be them giving you a Boost to your defenses, along with one of both of you spending Fortune to increase the bonus. That’s a good way to handle “I cover them” in the rules.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:57
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Heliotrope posted:Hiding behind another character could be them giving you a Boost to your defenses, along with one of both of you spending Fortune to increase the bonus. That’s a good way to handle “I cover them” in the rules. I like that! There you go, smart solution.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:04
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Thanlis posted:I would strongly recommend against Feng Shui for players who want that kind of tactical defensive option. There is nothing wrong with wanting them, but Feng Shui is the wrong game. It did damage the game for him a lot, though. The Killer has a disadvantage called Heroic Bloodshed: "in the climactic fight of an adventure, any attack that deals you more than 4 Wound points deals an additional 3 Wound points." After this got him heavily into Impairment (he may have even taken a Mark of Death) in the first adventure, he naturally started to want to work around this disadvantage. But with no defensive mechanics, nor aggro/AoO mechanics, and the only defense option being for someone to give up their entire 3 shots giving him a Defense Boost, it basically came down to playing "please don't target me Mr. GM". And that's tricky for the GM to explain why he's not being targeted when he just killed like 5 of the BBEG's mates/henchmen in a few seconds. It's even trickier for the GM to point out that if he's not being targeted, then he's playing the class without its balancing disadvantage, and so to have to somehow thrash out how often he "should" be targeted and/or what restrictions he would have to accept in order not to be, in order to achieve the correct game balance. In the second climactic fight he blasted the mooks in the first few shots and then walked out of the building, got in his car and drove away. Then he left the group and said to call him when we play a better game. So, yea, not the greatest experience with the archetype.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:20
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That sounds entirely like a player problem, not a game problem.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:41
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Xiahou Dun posted:My dude. Porque no los dos? Which is more likely: 1) That Feng Shui has critical design flaws with respect to emulating a specific set of genres, despite that being the entire purpose of the game, and being created by the guy who literally, literally, wrote the book on the intersection between genre and game design, and whose entire oeuvre is deeply considered genre emulation, to the point of being foundational to the last 20ish years of the hobby, or, 2) Hyphz, the person who had a thread built to contain them, aggressively doesn't understand how game design works. Again. I know I'm treading dangerously close to "no posting about posters" here, but goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this?
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Jan 4, 2023 21:42
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Kestral posted:Why do we keep doing this?
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Jan 4, 2023 21:46
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senrath posted:That sounds entirely like a player problem, not a game problem. Serious déjà vu kicking in here.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:51
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Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this? Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this? Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this? Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this? Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this? Kestral posted:goddamn, folks. Why do we keep doing this?
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Jan 4, 2023 21:53
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Kestral posted:That Feng Shui has critical design flaws with respect to emulating a specific set of genres, despite that being the entire purpose of the game, and being created by the guy who literally, literally, wrote the book on the intersection between genre and game design, and whose entire oeuvre is deeply considered genre emulation, to the point of being foundational to the last 20ish years of the hobby, Honestly, this was kind of the other thing with FS 2e. FS 2e was launched at the 20 year anniversary of Feng Shui 1. When the original Feng Shui 1 came out the D&D tables were still rolling THAC0. And in Robin's Laws the author indirectly admitted that FS1 wasn't that original as a game in any area except the GM advice (in fact FS1 was probably the game that made "genre emulation" be Laws' thing). So I had really hoped that FS2 would be a reimagined game on the same theme that would take advantage of the 20 years of RPG development in the meantime, and Laws' extra 20 years of experience including learning from things like Hillfolk. But it isn't, it's just FS1 with a small number of system tweaks and a hammer driven through the setting, and I don't know if it actually involved Laws or was just Cam Banks' revision of the rules. So, yea, they could have done a D&D 4e and they instead did a 5e. Also Robin Laws wrote Four Bastards which like instantly halved my respect for him.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:08
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CitizenKeen posted:Goons gonna goon. There was a pretty standard Reddit post under White Wolf sub asking what's up with Beast, someone pointed to the F&F, and that elicited a response like "dear lord, SA goons, you may as well ask 8chan for their opinion" which really tickled me and made me sad at the same time.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:09
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Mr. Maltose posted:It’s A and also A op, you’ve got a Gun Nut quote there as option B It's actually a line from a gun salesman, which makes it all the weirder.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:12
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Being dice-throwing angry because you can't powergame past a Killer's signature thematic disadvantage. In an action movie game. Goddamn.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:13
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That Old Tree posted:There was a pretty standard Reddit post under White Wolf sub asking what's up with Beast, someone pointed to the F&F, and that elicited a response like "dear lord, SA goons, you may as well ask 8chan for their opinion" which really tickled me and made me sad at the same time. This is the chat thread. On the one hand, we could talk about anything, the mandate is pretty broad. On the other hand, we mostly just talk about how 4E was <waves hand/> something or other. There's cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now but nobody wants to talk about it. Same with the industry thread - we could talk about the changes the industry is undergoing right now, things that are happening, but mostly we just talk about which people are shitheads.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:14
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That Old Tree posted:There was a pretty standard Reddit post under White Wolf sub asking what's up with Beast, someone pointed to the F&F, and that elicited a response like "dear lord, SA goons, you may as well ask 8chan for their opinion" which really tickled me and made me sad at the same time. You know, like Norway.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:14
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CitizenKeen posted:This is the chat thread. On the one hand, we could talk about anything, the mandate is pretty broad. On the other hand, we mostly just talk about how 4E was <waves hand/> something or other. There's cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now but nobody wants to talk about it. Same with the industry thread - we could talk about the changes the industry is undergoing right now, things that are happening, but mostly we just talk about which people are shitheads. Do you have some examples of cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now that's not being talked about? Or changes the industry is undergoing/things that are happening that should be talked about?
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Jan 4, 2023 22:15
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Arivia posted:Do you have some examples of cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now that's not being talked about? Or changes the industry is undergoing/things that are happening that should be talked about? Arivia posted:Do you have some examples of cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now that's not being talked about? Or changes the industry is undergoing/things that are happening that should be talked about? We've been talking abour 4E for 10 pages, a fifteen year old game. So almost anything more recently than that. Off the top of my head,
I just feel like, with a mandate of "all tabletop role playing and board games" as a thread mandate, we sure do spend a lot of time talking about 4E and hyphz. That being said, complaining about what the thread talks about is also a perennial favorite. Careful when you gaze into the abyss, etc.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:30
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CitizenKeen posted:I just feel like, with a mandate of "all tabletop role playing and board games" as a thread mandate, we sure do spend a lot of time talking about 4E and hyphz. That being said, complaining about what the thread talks about is also a perennial favorite. Careful when you gaze into the abyss, etc. I think an important part is that D&D is what most of us have experience with. Those sound like interesting systems and concepts and events, but I know nothing about them, didn't even know they were happening. If you know more than us, introduce us to the ideas and facts and let's see if they're as interesting as they seem.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:39
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That Old Tree posted:There was a pretty standard Reddit post under White Wolf sub asking what's up with Beast, someone pointed to the F&F, and that elicited a response like "dear lord, SA goons, you may as well ask 8chan for their opinion" which really tickled me and made me sad at the same time.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:46
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dwarf74 posted:Being dice-throwing angry because you can't powergame past a Killer's signature thematic disadvantage. In an action movie game. Goddamn. I mean, he took a Mark of Death for it. That's not a "campaign loss" or "success at a cost" thing. His natural interpretation was, "I failed. How can I succeed?"
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Jan 4, 2023 23:23
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CitizenKeen posted:We've been talking abour 4E for 10 pages, a fifteen year old game. So almost anything more recently than that. Off the top of my head,
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Jan 4, 2023 23:40
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Hostile V posted:[vibrates a completely normal amount] Reign 2e is finally out and my next campaign I run is lined up to be that so like I dunno it's like cool I guess. Oh that's very interesting. Any chance I could convince you to do an F&F review of it once you've tried it out? Or perhaps just list us what's changed? I liked a lot of things about Reign 1E.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:43
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Halloween Jack posted:I used to be annoyed that people think SA is still what it was when I registered, but now I just think it's funny. Imagine 23 years on the edge of a cliff. I get a bit annoyed because the main thing people are mad about is that a bunch of infamous shitheads used to be here. Used to, because we permabanned them and the made offsites to do their creepy lovely stuff that we don't tolerate, and that we're somehow still responsible for. CitizenKeen posted:We've been talking abour 4E for 10 pages, a fifteen year old game. So almost anything more recently than that. Off the top of my head, In fairness hyphz is a fascinating character. Just nearly perfectly crafted posts for driving goon engagement, very credibly good faith but also coming from a totally backwards world where the hard problems of being social animals are problems that TTRPGs are suited to solve. Anyway my main tradgame thought lately is that I am stretched over a chasm, of wanting to get into some casual wargaming (Infinity or CLOAK or SAGA) but I don't really want to do the steps that would basically be necessary to do so (befriend people who are already into those, cuz getting my existing friends to play wargames has been totally fruitless). I'm pretty burnt out on TTRPGs, just not connecting with any of my characters and frequently coming up with premises that I think are going to be fun to play and then once I'm actually at the table I run out of steam after a session or two.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:46
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CitizenKeen posted:Evil Hat just posted on how global disruption is changing their shipping policies I'm curious about this, if you have a link.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:00
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Tulip posted:I get a bit annoyed because the main thing people are mad about is that a bunch of infamous shitheads used to be here. Used to, because we permabanned them and the made offsites to do their creepy lovely stuff that we don't tolerate, and that we're somehow still responsible for. You could try a bit of solo wargaming like Five Parsecs From Home or Rangers of Shadow Deep.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:10
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Arivia posted:I'm curious about this, if you have a link. Evil Hat's blog is where you can typically find such things.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:31
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That Old Tree posted:Evil Hat's blog is where you can typically find such things. Sure, but I don't think it's unreasonable/deserving of smarm to ask someone who wants to bring up a discussion topic to provide the relevant link.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:48
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I wanna talk about Cy-Borg but I'm not sure how to start. Anyone try it before? How was it in actual play?
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Jan 5, 2023 01:25
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Arivia posted:Sure, but I don't think it's unreasonable/deserving of smarm to ask someone who wants to bring up a discussion topic to provide the relevant link. I didn't intend any snark, sorry.
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Jan 5, 2023 01:31
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PurpleXVI posted:Oh that's very interesting. Any chance I could convince you to do an F&F review of it once you've tried it out? Or perhaps just list us what's changed? I liked a lot of things about Reign 1E. Oh also the new edition of Paranoia dropped quickly after the initial launch and that was also very surprisingly good; it turns out they really did just need 2 months to finish the final PDF drafts of the core rule book. This is mostly because Perfect Edition throws out 99% of the new rule kludges of Red Clearance edition (it keeps a few things, like the main mechanical engine of d6 pools and chargen) and is tightly focused on being a rules-light game that trims a lot of the fat but in a way that makes the overall thing better (less mutant powers but they're all Zap classics like Pyrokinesis and Teleportation so they're stuff your players will be enticed to use with how mutant powers work right now, some of the Secret Societies are gone/merged together/have had cultural idea shifts that now make them generally more interesting and also Communists are back and they're assholes but in a great way) . The two main things it does right for me, beyond making the mechanics overall better, is: 1: It's a confidently and dryly written book, the humor's pretty sharp and it presents itself in a way that's not just fun but a cool kind of fun because roleplaying games should have some drama and strife. 2: It includes a ton of Alpha Complex atmosphere and environment to help folks get a feel for the Complex as new players (top 5 lists of approved jokes, unapproved jokes, approved songs, unapproved songs), culture (top celebrities of Alpha Complex and talking about politics, economy and the Clearance system) and comprehensive lists of the major players (the Service Firms and Secret Societies) and a list of who hates who and why. They've still got some more stuff coming out but there's a lot of solid words written about how to make your own items and missions and how to address for-real hurt feelings, it's as a totality a good book and a strong return to form that got passed by in the last edition, would recommend playing or just reading to see more.
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Jan 5, 2023 01:39
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Wait, there's a good edition of Paranoia again? That's exciting news, I kind of tuned it out after the crappy launch of the last new version. Edit: Not for sale yet. Will definitely buy it once the KS exclusivity ends BinaryDoubts fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 01:47
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Oh, wow, new Paranoia? Again? I wasn't too hot on Red Clearance since it overhauled with all the new mechanics and was a little too close to 5th compared to how perfect XP was, but this one looks like it captures that exact era of Paranoia I really loved... Plus, the art is good again! RIP Jim Holloway 
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Jan 5, 2023 01:56
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Arivia posted:Do you have some examples of cool poo poo happening in RPGs right now that's not being talked about? Or changes the industry is undergoing/things that are happening that should be talked about? Gunbat Banwa came out! I guess, it looks interesting, another game building on DnD 4E and FFTs foundations, with a lot of flavour for its fantasy South East Asia settng, still have to actually play it. Any takes from the thread?
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Jan 5, 2023 02:29
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Hostile V posted:Oh also the new edition of Paranoia dropped quickly after the initial launch and that was also very surprisingly good; On a scale of 1 to Paranoia XP, how would you rate it?
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Jan 5, 2023 02:46
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PurpleXVI posted:On a scale of 1 to Paranoia XP, how would you rate it? An additional question: Part of what made PARANOIA Xp work so well was being willing to jettison the baggage and plots of poo poo from previous editions, especially the bad poo poo. But in the Kickstarter for this new version they prominently say they've got a canon that works across all editions, even 5th. Does it work, or is it kind of useless to downright harmful?
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Jan 5, 2023 02:57
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Tulip posted:Anyway my main tradgame thought lately is that I am stretched over a chasm, of wanting to get into some casual wargaming (Infinity or CLOAK or SAGA) but I don't really want to do the steps that would basically be necessary to do so (befriend people who are already into those, cuz getting my existing friends to play wargames has been totally fruitless). I'm pretty burnt out on TTRPGs, just not connecting with any of my characters and frequently coming up with premises that I think are going to be fun to play and then once I'm actually at the table I run out of steam after a session or two. Megazver posted:You could try a bit of solo wargaming like Five Parsecs From Home or Rangers of Shadow Deep. I'm going to echo Megazver here and suggest the same two solo focused wargames. Personally I was looking for an opportunity to have emergent stories arise from my wargame play (and I wanted a Scifi setting with lasers), so Five Parsecs From Home 3rd edition was a perfect fit. Also the author is a goon and he posts here, albeit rarely. Rangers of Shadow Deep is also very good game with plenty of acclaim in the solo wargaming community. It is closer to a roleplaying game than many solo wargames, but that is one of it's strengths. The author, Joseph A. McCullough, has written Frostgrave and Stargrave, which you may have heard of. If you want a solo wargame more focused on a party than Rangers of Shadow Deep (I'm splitting hairs here) with a fantasy setting and an integrated hexcrawl mechanic, then I would recommend 5 Leagues from the Borderlands by the same author as 5 Parsecs. ZearothK posted:Gunbat Banwa came out! I guess, it looks interesting, another game building on DnD 4E and FFTs foundations, with a lot of flavour for its fantasy South East Asia settng, still have to actually play it. Any takes from the thread? Thank you for mentioning that! I totally forgot until I saw this post then coincidentally got the update from itch in my email that 1.03 is out. I need to find the time to look into this RPG. Also I'd love to hear more about this game than some of the topics discussed in the chat thread in 2022. I know Dungeon 23 is a new thing going around the blogs and discussions of the roleplaying community. Evidently Sean McCoy on Twitter kicked off the idea with this: https://twitter.com/seanmccoy/status/1599809865836363782?s=20&t=EGHhFmqQQegi2ch7hvN96w Also the Delta Green community finished it's Shotgun Scenario Contest. The winners are Take the A Train by Bird Bailey (First Place) and Saturnalia by mellonbread (Second Place and People's Choice). Personally my new discovery has been the solo focused wargame Last Days: Zombie Apocalypse written by Ash Barker's, of Guerrilla Miniature Games Youtube fame. I'm into the first 25 pages (100+ pages total) but I found the foreword to be a great little discussion about skirmish wargame design.
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Jan 5, 2023 03:29
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| # ? May 23, 2024 13:32 |
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CitizenKeen posted:Speaking of tactical RPGs, Grant Howitt and Chris a Taylor have a playtest out for Hollows, their tabletop Souls-like deconstructing toxic masculinity. The Bludgeon posted:Yo u ar e s t ro n g . Yo u ar e t h e s t ro n g e s t . Th e a l p h a . A p e r f e c t mac h i n e . More symbolically, I'm guessing it comes through strongest in that 'anchoring' the Lord of a Hollow (basically catching their soul in a spooky jar and freeing them from being trapped in their worst form) is both more difficult AND more rewarding than simply murdering them to death and thereby defies what the rest of the game is pushing where murder-or-be-murdered is the whole of the law and the only way forwards. Simultaneously, although the game makes it extremely clear that Hunters are doomed to eventually turn into a Hollow themselves no matter what, it also points out that successfully anchoring a Hunter AFTER they do this is the only way for a Hunter to permanently escape being a walking nightmare-murderer-come-nightmare. So your character's surroundings and background all tell you you're an evil screwup, your most powerful tools tell you appealing lies about how much better than everyone else you are because you can use them to cause harm, and the easiest way to continue forward and gain power is to mindlessly hurt things until you turn into exactly what you're fighting... or you can go out of your way to do the hard work of dragging other people out of their own misery and your friends can do the same for you and you get to escape the cycle. Please tell me the bits I'm completely wrong about and or missing entirely, I'm earnestly curious.
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Jan 5, 2023 03:33
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