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SixFigureSandwich posted:But the Republicans can and will vote in lockstep to stop Jeffries from being Speaker, so that's not a realistic outcome anyway. Dems do have the power to lend their votes at a high price, and as long as even a handful of Rs are willing to honour that deal, the HFC can't (successfully) remove McCarthy at a later date (e: as long as all Dems want to retain him). I don't think McCarthy would end up being this hypothetical consensus speaker, because the Dems would not trust him to honor any deals they made with him. We are a long ways away (at least another week of failed votes I'd think) before this started to become a realistic possibility, and the odds are probably still in favor of the GOP working something out with the HFC. If not, then even that may not be long enough, the price would be extremely high and it would take a while for the GOP to go from "we finally admit we can't find 218 votes on our own" to "ok, we accept those concessions, no debt ceiling hostage situation, no stupid Hunter Biden investigation".
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Jan 6, 2023 14:09
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nine-gear crow posted:The complete absence of Steve Scalise in all this has been an enduring mystery to me since this started. The fact that he has not emerged by now as the heir apparent to get McCarthy to sit down means that he probably doesn't want to be Speaker under any circumstances, so that's why the rest of the caucus is flailing about nominating clown show candidates because no one actually seriously wants the gig besides McCarthy. The #2 option for them at this point besides McCarthy is literally nobody. Because if it was Scalise, we'd know by now because Steve Scalise, the physically dickless wonder that he is, is more than ready, willing, and able to just walk in and poo poo down McCarthy's neck like a honking giga chad if he wants something, and he hasn't which means he doesn't. I don't think Scalise can also win a vote, and he probably doesn't share Mccarthy's apparent humiliation fetish. Turns out David Duke without the baggage probably has some baggage.
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Jan 6, 2023 14:12
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Vegetable posted:A bunch of reps have been talking about how they're not able to do constituent casework as a result of this impasse. What kinds of casework do members of the House do? I'm familiar with the Commonwealth parliaments where MPs both resolve local concerns and also vote for national policies. I hadn't thought that members of the House did similarly local work. There's a lot of stuff like "nobody's fixed the pothole in front of my house for a year" or "my husband's veteran's disability hasn't been approved yet" that congressional offices fix by yelling at the appropriate people for their constituents. This is why long term incumbents stay in office, they've racked up a lot of favors.
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Jan 6, 2023 14:12
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SixFigureSandwich posted:They will vote in lockstep in opposition to the Dem trying to sneak through Speaker Jeffries. And if McCarthy becomes Speaker through sheer attrition then the HFC plus Dems can just vote to remove him again as soon as attendance is high enough again. Except, and here's the important bit, if they were going to vote "in lockstep" to prevent Jeffries from being speaker, we would already have Speaker McCarthy. But because a handful were out of step, Jeffries has had a solid plurality of votes every election, and McCarthy is losing votes every day. As it stands, it's a hilarious waiting game that the Dems are somehow poised to win (hilarious in that McCarthy refuses to back down while the chaos caucus slams pineapples into his testicles while other Republicans are apparently talking about finding a more moderate alternative with the Dems) and hey, the Republicans are the ones talking about having lives outside the speakership vote, not the Dems. While I don't think Jeffries is going to win it, as it stands, the Republicans are far from voting in lockstep, and there is a non-0% chance that Jeffries actually becomes Speaker at least for a few moments, even if it's just from "Dems showed up to work on Saturday while a few Republicans decided they would rather sleep in today".
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Jan 6, 2023 14:13
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TLM3101 posted:
He has basically already tried A. The problem is they don't trust him to let them keep tickling his tonsils from behind once he's in office.
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Jan 6, 2023 14:15
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:They can help if a federal agency built to service 350 million people accidentally puts you into the wrong category or gives you an incorrect outcome, or if you need a service asap that typically takes weeks or months. One of the more common examples is expediting passports for unforeseen situations or emergencies, but they’ll also assist if say the IRS or Social Security makes an error and you can’t seem to resolve it with the agency, which is helpful for people who don’t have the resources to hire lawyers to sue the federal government. In these cases a letter form a member of congress to the department head or an assistant head will often get someone with power looking at an issue they otherwise wouldn’t know about. Yeah, every government agency I've ever worked with has a "Congressional Correspondence" track that A) immediately kicks all all complaints up to the executive level for review and B) requires duplicate copies of all related internal records to be kept and forwarded to the congressional liaison's office as soon as possible. It won't always get you the response you want, but it will at least force an immediate response. It's also one of the only truly bipartisan acts in Congress: both R's and D's like to flex by making lower level executive branch bureaucrats sweat.
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Jan 6, 2023 14:15
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So when does the McCarthy ego-smasher 5000 start up today? Noon again?
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Jan 6, 2023 14:56
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah, every government agency I've ever worked with has a "Congressional Correspondence" track that A) immediately kicks all all complaints up to the executive level for review and B) requires duplicate copies of all related internal records to be kept and forwarded to the congressional liaison's office as soon as possible. It won't always get you the response you want, but it will at least force an immediate response. No one wants to be dragged in front of congress on national TV to explain why their department has hosed over widows and veterans in violation of federal law.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:10
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skylined! posted:I don't think Scalise can also win a vote, and he probably doesn't share Mccarthy's apparent humiliation fetish. Turns out David Duke without the baggage probably has some baggage. Even those who like Scalise don't think he could win a vote, and Scalise isn't going to move against McCarthy because he's heir apparent and if by some act of Satan Kevin actually wins he's not gonna want to get removed as Majority Leader for all of a sudden going against him in the speakers race If McCarthy drops though, different issue
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Jan 6, 2023 15:11
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Comstar posted:Why is the Republican Party not throwing the chucklefucks out for doing this? Why is there no pressure on them to stop this? They are unfortunately duly elected and short of completely and utterly failing to follow the rules of decorum and getting temporarily ejected from a session or committee assignment there's not much that can be done because of that fact. Blame the shitlords in their districts that fully see their bullshit and disruptiveness to their own parties leadership like McConnell and McCarthy, which they seem to have turned their unbridled antagonism towards of late since they can't seem to beat the Democrats lately in general elections in order to properly "own the libs", and decide that's what they want in a house rep. Not representation for their political agenda's, chaos, antics and unproductive trolling of congress and the idea of functional government.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:17
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Comstar posted:Why is the Republican Party not throwing the chucklefucks out for doing this? Why is there no pressure on them to stop this? The people who elected them are very pleased they are doing this.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:18
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:No one wants to be dragged in front of congress on national TV to explain why their department has hosed over widows and veterans in violation of federal law. Also no one wants a call form their boss about why there was a gently caress up. I've done constituent casework before and most of the time its just needing to wait a little longer. Sometimes, you can get tings expedited and sometimes you needed to get the rules and pass along any advice on how to work the system a bit better. Sometimes its about unsticking the bureaucratic process or getting an agency of their rear end. also, in the modern era there is little you can do to move anyone up lists or get favorable outcomes. Mostly, you are getting answers. I will say Veteran's casework feels like there is more victories because you can get people medals and back settlements. Immigration is tough because there isn't much wiggle room in decision making and the wait times are mostly inflexible.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:21
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Randalor posted:Except, and here's the important bit, if they were going to vote "in lockstep" to prevent Jeffries from being speaker, we would already have Speaker McCarthy. But because a handful were out of step, Jeffries has had a solid plurality of votes every election, and McCarthy is losing votes every day. As it stands, it's a hilarious waiting game that the Dems are somehow poised to win (hilarious in that McCarthy refuses to back down while the chaos caucus slams pineapples into his testicles while other Republicans are apparently talking about finding a more moderate alternative with the Dems) and hey, the Republicans are the ones talking about having lives outside the speakership vote, not the Dems. Yeah I don't think it's exactly a likely outcome but republicans shooting themselves in the foot is absolutely a possibility. in a much bigger way than they already have I mean. People over-estimate just how central 'owning the libs' really is to republican congressional calculus and while it's a big thing to the base, what we're seeing right now is that there are internal sentiments within the republican party which utterly eclipse anti-dem strategizing. Which makes sense that there would be, it would be actually insane if there weren't. idk how much dems would even want control of this shitshow if it came to that beyond out of a general desire to keep republicans out of control. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 15:40
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coelomate posted:This thread is interesting because of how uninformed everyone - us, the media, probably a lot of the reps - are. I check in the morning hoping for news overnight but nope… we all just wait for the next live squabble at moon. welcome to the debate and discussion subforum on something awful, we hope you enjoy your experience.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk how much dems would even want control of this shitshow if it came to that beyond out of a general desire to keep republicans out of control. Oh they would want it for a number of reasons: 1) it's humiliating to the Republicans 2) you can get more for Biden's agenda 3) it strengthens the President's hand ahead of 2024 4) it stops the dumb investigations into Hunter's Hog and other stupid stuff that the Republicans so desperately want for some reason So yeah, I think they'd take it if it came down to that
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Jan 6, 2023 15:49
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Fritz the Horse posted:welcome to the debate and discussion subforum on something awful, we hope you enjoy your experience. not even the people involved in this currently know how tf it's going to shake out
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Jan 6, 2023 15:52
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Seth Pecksniff posted:
They are hoping the media covers whatever fuzzy corruption/Benjamin G. Hazi line they draw. Or find another vague email to get into Biden's personal emails.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:11
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Why would the Dems negotiate with McCarthy or anyone else in the Republican caucus? The last decade, if not generation, has shown them to behave in bad faith as their default modus operandi. Any deals/concessions would have to be viewed with extreme suspicion. Just look at the supposed concessions McCarthy has offered to the holdouts!
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Jan 6, 2023 16:22
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From a political perspective democrats have no reason to offer any deal or way out. They're best served by letting the Republicans' basic incompetence drive headlines and widen divisions in the party.
Morrow fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 16:25
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Kale posted:Not representation for their political agenda's, chaos, antics and unproductive trolling of congress and the idea of functional government. That is their political agenda.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:35
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It was also be incredibly against precedent to interfere with the Republicans' speaker election, as well as make Democrats part of the problem. I don't think Jefferies will make any noise about cutting a deal until a (credible) Republican makes a public offer.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:35
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Oh they would want it for a number of reasons: I dont think Democrats rank owning the Cons nearly as high on their agenda list as the Republicans do owning the libs, but having this on display likely helps them to some degree with the moderate independent voter not interested in seeing constant antics overtake the house for next cycle. Its not helping the antics people either than Fox News and the like dont seem on their side and even Trump just wants them to choose McCarthy and get on with it already yet they dont give a gently caress what the supposed god king of the party is saying. The fact Trump cant get them to vote for McCarthy feels like another death sentence for the MAGA movement as his used to be the unequivocal word of god for these people not even a year ago. 2022 and seemingly 2023 had been loving horrible for the GOP MAGA narrative. Like easily the worst its been since late 2015 or so when people were discounting Trump and the average persons rank stupidity and pettiness to hope on board with the poo poo thats led being unable to choose a speaker when they are back in power in the house for the first time in 4 years. They might even get even less done for their agenda then 2017-2018 and have to rely on the Supreme Court to force conservative agenda into the mainstream again.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:46
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another official -1 for McCarthy for the weekend https://mobile.twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/status/1611388616944615424
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Jan 6, 2023 16:47
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bipartisan biden dick demanded, the democrats will be more interested in avoiding default
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Jan 6, 2023 16:52
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Regarding the voting in lockstep thing, I think it's more if Jefferies gets voted in as Speaker on a technicality then they'll vote together in a non confidence vote in lockstep. It's only if Republicans make an offer for a compromise moderate candidate or if Dems pull a Lincoln and get 6 repubs to defect who want off of this sinking ship that the current deadlock breaks if things continue as they are.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:54
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Judgy Fucker posted:Why would the Dems negotiate with McCarthy or anyone else in the Republican caucus? The last decade, if not generation, has shown them to behave in bad faith as their default modus operandi. Any deals/concessions would have to be viewed with extreme suspicion. Just look at the supposed concessions McCarthy has offered to the holdouts! Flip side I think is that it's extremely unlikely to end up worse for the country than whatever GOP would end up with on their own, though you are absolutely right that it's hard to trust they will honor the deal (and it's unclear the GOP leadership can even guarantee that even if acting in best faith possible).
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Jan 6, 2023 16:55
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In the most literal sense, they don't actually need a House until around July. Possibly November at the very latest. They just passed a full year budget for the first time in a long time and the debt ceiling isn't projected to get hit until then. A few days/weeks of chaos is mostly just bad for the staff. Having no House means that literally nothing can happen, which is not ideal, especially if there are emergencies, but there is no rush to for the Dems to help bail them out due to necessity. Even a "consensus" Speaker wouldn't be a huge deal for the Dems legislatively, because there will still need to be Republicans to vote for any bill that could possibly pass the House.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:He has basically already tried A. The problem is they don't trust him to let them keep tickling his tonsils from behind once he's in office. Yep, pretty much. I'm not sure which guarantees he can make to them that they'd accept, so who the gently caress knows how this'll shake out. For all I know, they've managed to make a deal - somehow - but even if he does manage to come up with something the maniacs will accept? This was supposed to be the easiest vote in the session. It all gets much, much more complicated from here. Either way, even if Kevin manages to get the gavel, he'll be so comprehensively neutered that it's going to be pure chaos anyway.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:58
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah, every government agency I've ever worked with has a "Congressional Correspondence" track that A) immediately kicks all all complaints up to the executive level for review and B) requires duplicate copies of all related internal records to be kept and forwarded to the congressional liaison's office as soon as possible. It won't always get you the response you want, but it will at least force an immediate response. I've been on the receiving end of these and they get lots of attention from management. You can hear the spines straighten up.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:12
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I love living through history! I love thinking about telling my grandkids about political incompetence and the greatest plague in modern history! I love it, and I wouldn't change it for the world!
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Jan 6, 2023 17:24
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nine-gear crow posted:Kevin McCarthy is a stupid rear end in a top hat with no shame or self-reflective capabilities and I hope he continues to be a stupid rear end in a top hat for a long time to come and you guys just have no Speaker of the House for the 118th Congress. This would actually be a great outcome for the D's. The way things look right now there's seriously no solution in sight for the foreseeable future.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:27
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Tibalt posted:It was also be incredibly against precedent to interfere with the Republicans' speaker election, as well as make Democrats part of the problem. I don't think Jefferies will make any noise about cutting a deal until a (credible) Republican makes a public offer. Credible Republicans include...oh look at that it's loving nobody
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Jan 6, 2023 17:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a lot of stuff like "nobody's fixed the pothole in front of my house for a year" or "my husband's veteran's disability hasn't been approved yet" that congressional offices fix by yelling at the appropriate people for their constituents. This is why long term incumbents stay in office, they've racked up a lot of favors.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:39
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Angry_Ed posted:Credible Republicans include...oh look at that it's loving nobody To be fair I can think of a few but they’ve all been dead for at least 100 years.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:44
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Angry_Ed posted:Credible Republicans include...oh look at that it's loving nobody Emmer or Stefanik, maybe Gary Palmer or Rich Hudson. Basically somebody who could credibly say they're staying for half the Republican caucus, not some freshman or Boebert.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Anyway my prediction is this doesn't resolve any time soon. Everyone is saying that eventually there will be a compromise candidate but if that person existed they would be getting mentioned by name. There's no compromise candidate and the suicide caucus is going to drive the house off a cliff. If we get a Democrat speaker in a republican majority congress I am going to loving bust a gut laughing. My work space is frilled to the brim with Republicans and they would be absolutely seething over this.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:46
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Youth Decay posted:another official -1 for McCarthy for the weekend His wife just gave birth.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:47
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One of the funniest dynamics is that elected officials split their time with "in session" weeks in DC and then "District work week" while folks are theoretically back in their home districts. If there's just neverending votes I'm not actually sure what even happens. Can they adjourn for a full week to give them time to be in district (or suckle at the teats of millionaires at fundraisers).?
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Jan 6, 2023 17:48
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Tibalt posted:I could see an argument for someone like Not that I can speak about the other three but Elise Stefanik is one of the traitors who tried to overturn the election and should not be trusted. And any deal McCarthy or Scalise would offer is also useless. That's kind of the issue I can't think of a single Republican in congress right now who can be trusted and isn't a complete whackjob at best and an outright traitor at worst.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:49
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Narcissus1916 posted:One of the funniest dynamics is that elected officials split their time with "in session" weeks in DC and then "District work week" while folks are theoretically back in their home districts. It'd be funny if they aren't able to adjourn long enough for people to leave because they haven't been able to adopt rules so if a bunch of GOP left the Dems could just call a session on their own and elect Jeffries. I don't know how the process actually works though.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:52
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