|
Just give us a predetermined character with their own personality and arc, or let us customize them fully. I would rather not have the avatar in cutscenes than this halfway solution where it's supposed to be the player so they don't really get written, but you can't actually make them the player or an oc because they have a set look.
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 00:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 23:37 |
|
|
yeah i definitely can appreciate a bit of leaving it up to god. ignatz has sohttps://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=44me surprisingly good paired endings id have never gotten if i had complete control. edit: i dont know how that happened Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 00:32
|
|
|
Honestly though, and I accept that I'm in the minority here, having full voice acting and animated cutscenes adds so little to the game for me that I'd definitely trade them away to get rid of the weird 'not a character but also can't really be an avatar' quasi compromise we seem to be stuck with. Edit: And that's not a call to eliminate any of it, I have no power over fire emblem and don't expect it to be solely made to appeal to me forever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 00:35
|
|
|
I think an avatar could be fine, but not as a main character. Make them like retainer, a golem or some twist on the Deadlords where they are a resurrected dead hero but can't talk, following the actual main character around. Would also be a fun way to have another mage lord. Make them a fledgling necromancer or summoner and they conjured up the avatar to be their friend and help save the day, but it's their show at the end of the day. Essentially let the avatar be the little dress up doll accessory character like Sommie is in this game. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jan 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 00:37
|
|
|
my first playthrough of 3 houses I was leaving supports to chance, and right near the end my two favourite house members, Hubert and Petra, S-ranked together, and their final support was really cute! That kind of enhanced the experience for me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 01:05
|
|
|
Endorph posted:yeah i definitely can appreciate a bit of leaving it up to god. ignatz has sohttps://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=44me surprisingly good paired endings id have never gotten if i had complete control. agreed 100%
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 01:13
|
|
|
mycatscrimes posted:Honestly though, and I accept that I'm in the minority here, having full voice acting and animated cutscenes adds so little to the game for me that I'd definitely trade them away to get rid of the weird 'not a character but also can't really be an avatar' quasi compromise we seem to be stuck with. I mean Robin was from a game without full voice acting and all the animated cutscenes were in first person, so that wouldn't solve anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 01:44
|
|
|
Tae posted:*back in my day* Someday they will make an FE9 again and I will be content.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
if you just want the gba games/fe9 again i just recommend romhacks tbh, there's a lot of complete ones and gameplay wise most of them are as good if not better like vision quest gameplay wise is probably better than most of the GBA FEs even if the plot is a bit whatever they arnet going to make a game like FE9/the GBA games again short of a remake (and even those will probably get stuff added like echoes did) so just accept that and explore alternative options that still largely scratch that itch
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
Anyway S ranks destroyed discussion of Fire Emblem characters (in a different way than the 3H route split did) so I am glad they are seemingly gone. Getting your preferred character endings could be a bit of a pain without it while still having multiple A ranks but I feel like there's several solutions to that that could be implemented. And hell am a big fan of paired endings that aren't romantic. 3H had a few of those for a lot of characters even outside of Byleth's endings with married men and it's something I appreciated a lot about that game. Would be happy to see more of that if there is no longer the "they get married" support tier. But regardless I will glady take losing some shipping convenience if it means there won't be anyone playing this game basing their entire thoughts about lgbt rep on the boring protagonist's support list.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:15
|
|
|
People still talked about which characters they liked hooking up before Awakening. Remember Lyn x Eliwood, vs Hector vs Florina? Ike x Ranulf vs. Soren? FE8's bugnuts Eirika/Ephraim/Tana/Innes/L'Arachel/Lyon web?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:22
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:But regardless I will glady take losing some shipping convenience if it means there won't be anyone playing this game basing their entire thoughts about lgbt rep on the boring protagonist's support list. You can just put cytheril on ignore
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
All getting rid of S ranks means is I'll only advance pairings I want to A rank and end everyone else at B. I mean, that's what I did in 3H most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
Why is getting a blurb in the end credits that reads “and then they got married.” such a big deal. It’s not even a mechanic. It’s just a minor shout out to people that engage with the support mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
Junpei posted:People still talked about which characters they liked hooking up before Awakening. Remember Lyn x Eliwood, vs Hector vs Florina? Ike x Ranulf vs. Soren? FE8's bugnuts Eirika/Ephraim/Tana/Innes/L'Arachel/Lyon web? thats not what syntheticpolygon means. when three houses came out and only byleth had s supports a lot of people talked about how only byleth had gay endings or even romance options or talked about how the byleth ship options were literally the only gay content in the game. thats what they mean Nanomashoes posted:Why is getting a blurb in the end credits that reads “and then they got married.” such a big deal. It’s not even a mechanic. It’s just a minor shout out to people that engage with the support mechanic. and some of the paired endings do have cool writing or add a good sense of finality. Endorph fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jan 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:32
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I mean Robin was from a game without full voice acting and all the animated cutscenes were in first person, so that wouldn't solve anything. True, I was responding to the assertions that the presence of those things is why we can't have a customizable protagonist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:39
|
|
|
I'm talking about the broader "S Ranks destroyed discussions of FE characters" point
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:39
|
|
|
mycatscrimes posted:True, I was responding to the assertions that the presence of those things is why we can't have a customizable protagonist. We can't have a customizable protagonist because making pre-rendered cutscenes exclusively in first person was annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:42
|
|
|
Hence my original post where I would be happier just not having cutscenes. You don't have to agree with me, I was strictly stating a personal preference, not determining the future of the series. I thought you brought up Robin and first person cutscenes in response to that as an acceptable compromise or other alternative? Otherwise I'm very sorry, but I didn't really follow your point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I'm talking about the broader "S Ranks destroyed discussions of FE characters" point I think it largely comes down to whether you think of Fire Emblem as first and foremost an RPG, or primarily a strategy game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I'm talking about the broader "S Ranks destroyed discussions of FE characters" point
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:46
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I think it largely comes down to whether you think of Fire Emblem as first and foremost an RPG, or primarily a strategy game. I've been thinking of it as whether people think of it as a first person game, where they want to project themselves into the world, or a game where they want to experience it more as a story unfolding that they are viewing, rather than being a character in. The series is pretty clearly finding more success using the former strategy, which is fine, but does mean it no longer scratches the same itch if you prefer the latter experience. There probably are turn based strategy games that are a better experience for the latter these days. Don't know which ones are good, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I'm talking about the broader "S Ranks destroyed discussions of FE characters" point Oh, I didn't mean that in regards to people talking about shipping or whatever. I think all that is pretty alright, good even. I just think its really bad that people will still argue to this day that Catherine can't be gay even though half her characterisation is crushing on the pope, because she doesn't have an S rank with female Byleth. It genuinely sucks to me that there's seemingly a bunch of people out there that can't conceive of romantic chemistry or any interesting characterisation unless it ends in the "You get married!" rank. Of course, you will always get people ignoring that stuff anyway, look at romance discussion around Ike, but it became such a flashpoint of inane discussion around the games that I dunno it just kinda sucked. I'm probs overstating the impact it had but like I really don't think it adds a lot and I think it puts a limit on the kinda stuff you can have supports around. Am happy if its gone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
mycatscrimes posted:Hence my original post where I would be happier just not having cutscenes. You don't have to agree with me, I was strictly stating a personal preference, not determining the future of the series. I thought you brought up Robin and first person cutscenes in response to that as an acceptable compromise or other alternative? Otherwise I'm very sorry, but I didn't really follow your point. I was saying that getting rid of cutscenes wouldn't stop the 'not really a character not really an avatar' situation, as evidenced by Robin, who was very much one of those situations and wasn't in a game with cutscenes that showed them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:04
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Oh, I didn't mean that in regards to people talking about shipping or whatever. I think all that is pretty alright, good even. I just think its really bad that people will still argue to this day that Catherine can't be gay even though half her characterisation is crushing on the pope, because she doesn't have an S rank with female Byleth. It genuinely sucks to me that there's seemingly a bunch of people out there that can't conceive of romantic chemistry or any interesting characterisation unless it ends in the "You get married!" rank. Oh I get it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I was saying that getting rid of cutscenes wouldn't stop the 'not really a character not really an avatar' situation, as evidenced by Robin, who was very much one of those situations and wasn't in a game with cutscenes that showed them. I feel Robin is both an avatar and a character, tbh. They are fully customizable and also have a written personality and story arc. Corrin is both as well, even if she's a much less well recieved character. In fact, Byleth is the only one that really has this issue, now that I think about it- currently there isn't reason to assume Alear is similarly underwritten. mycatscrimes fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:06
|
|
|
I never had a problem with Robin or Corrin because both of them were actually characters who had something approaching a personality despite being customizable avatar stand-ins. Robin's writing was fine, Corrin's writing sucked but that's more down to Fates's writing sucking in general. Byleth being dead silent and communicating entirely through dialogue picks I didn't like.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:12
|
|
|
tbh i like byleth more than robin. people propping robin up as this font of how to do it right always feels really weird to me because they're too written to project anything interesting onto but also barely have anything resembling a personality or interesting conflict. at least byleth has the vague suggestion that they care about people but have difficulty showing it in a normal human way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:12
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Oh, I didn't mean that in regards to people talking about shipping or whatever. I think all that is pretty alright, good even. I just think its really bad that people will still argue to this day that Catherine can't be gay even though half her characterisation is crushing on the pope, because she doesn't have an S rank with female Byleth. It genuinely sucks to me that there's seemingly a bunch of people out there that can't conceive of romantic chemistry or any interesting characterisation unless it ends in the "You get married!" rank. Really? Goddamn, isn’t her A-rank support with Shamir, the hot sniper she constantly hangs out with, literally a proposal? Some people truly are brokebrained.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:13
|
|
|
Last Celebration posted:Really? Goddamn, isn’t her A-rank support with Shamir, the hot sniper she constantly hangs out with, literally a proposal? Some people truly are brokebrained. To me, she's obviously just bisexual. Probably favors women, but she also does explicitly state in one of her supports that she likes men. I found the issue to be that the list of characters who could marry Byleth as the same sex was vanishingly small, even though most of the cast had at least one ambiguously to explicitly romantic relationship with someone of the same sex - think Catherine/Shamir, Hilda/Marianne, Dimitri/Dedue, Felix/Sylvain. Which in itself would not necessarily be a problem if not for how everyone could marry Byleth as the opposite sex. Everyone's straight for Byleth but very few are bi for Byleth, and I found that incredibly frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
its not ideal but i vastly prefer that to everyone being bi for byleth tbh because then people would ignore the non-byleth gay stuff even harder
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:18
|
|
|
Endorph posted:tbh i like byleth more than robin. people propping robin up as this font of how to do it right always feels really weird to me because they're too written to project anything interesting onto but also barely have anything resembling a personality or interesting conflict. at least byleth has the vague suggestion that they care about people but have difficulty showing it in a normal human way. Idk this just isn't how I experience them at all. I get that it can be annoying when the fandom seems to settle on an opinion you really disagree with, though. I don't really see me just saying things I like and don't like to be propping anything up or putting anything else down though. I'm just expressing my personal preferences in a chat thread, not trying to tell other people what their preferences gotta be or even saying the series always needs to align with my preferences. It may be just a matter of different priorities. To me the appeal of Robin is they have a comparable amount of likability and personality to other fire emblem characters (if you disagree that is fine, but it's my read on her- I don't read her as blander or more devoid of conflict than say, Marth or Eliwood) and if I want to project, I can do that with her visuals. So for me Robin is better on both counts because I can either exerience her as a regular character, or I can play dressup with her. Whereas the inability to make Byleth look different kills the part of me that might be interested in projecting onto them, and the lack of dialogue just grates. I want to read what Byleth would say, and I find it uncomfortable or just boring when it feels like the game is trying to engage me, the player, directly. I don't hate Byleth or anything, mind, and I think they do have more of a character and arc than they get credit for. Some of my favorite moments are when they are just reacting to other characters with their facial expressions. It's just, I would vastly prefer to read Byleth as a written character, and not even having the consolation prize of being able to pick her appearance is disappointing, for me. It does the opposite of drawing me in or inviting me to project, it just makes me feel weird. Actually I think a huge bummer for me is the fact Byleth clearly does have a character and an arc, but I don't get to really read it in a way that I would find engaging and enjoyable. And if you have the opposite experience, that is fine and I'm not interested in telling you that you are wrong! I typed this all up because you said it was weird to you, so I thought I'd share why I have this reaction, not to argue you out of your different take. In fact it's neat to hear how it's different for other people. mycatscrimes fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:18
|
|
|
I think a solution here is just to cut some of Byleth's supports in general. Give them a support roster more similar to any other character and maybe make a bunch more of the opposite sex relationships non-romantic. Kinda kills the "Date your favorite character" vibe which I can appreciate but might be better if the romantic paired endings are more limited to the characters they have some romantic chemistry with. And who knows maybe that's going to be how things shake out with Alear. Some people mentioned in the previews they felt romance was de-emphasised so maybe that's what they meant? Am interested to find out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:26
|
|
|
Endorph posted:tbh i like byleth more than robin. people propping robin up as this font of how to do it right always feels really weird to me because they're too written to project anything interesting onto but also barely have anything resembling a personality or interesting conflict. at least byleth has the vague suggestion that they care about people but have difficulty showing it in a normal human way. Robin has an incredibly interesting personality to them in combination with Chrom. They are the caution to Chrom's bravado and Chrom is the courage to their cowardice. The interplay between the two characters is the core of Awakening. Robin's personality as a straight man to the insanity around them is also good because it only holds up to a point at which point they just embrace the madness and go all in. Like Tharja's proposal is Robin demand she do it to his back because she's been stalking him for so long that he feel uncomfortable with her proposing to his face. Like if you prefer FRobin, unfortunately you just have a weaker character because FRobin reads romantically with Chrom and that just vastly reduces the other avenues available for the character. It's genuinely weird to me that someone could see Robin as *absent* a personality, given all we see of them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
Endorph posted:tbh i like byleth more than robin. people propping robin up as this font of how to do it right always feels really weird to me because they're too written to project anything interesting onto but also barely have anything resembling a personality or interesting conflict. at least byleth has the vague suggestion that they care about people but have difficulty showing it in a normal human way. Yeah I found byleth really charming in their weirdness when I first played it. I eventually got a bit sick of them due to protagonist overload which always happens to me, but then three hopes reminded me why I liked them in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
Metis of the Hallway posted:Yeah I found byleth really charming in their weirdness when I first played it. I eventually got a bit sick of them due to protagonist overload which always happens to me, but then three hopes reminded me why I liked them in the first place. Hopes Byleth is loving amazing. Sothis!Byleth is even more amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:37
|
|
|
They should remake Radiant Dawn with proper supports but the only support that goes to S is the Oliver/Tanith one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:37
|
|
|
Metis of the Hallway posted:Yeah I found byleth really charming in their weirdness when I first played it. I eventually got a bit sick of them due to protagonist overload which always happens to me, but then three hopes reminded me why I liked them in the first place. Byleth is a pretty neat character concept, even if I don't personally dig their presentation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:38
|
|
|
Byleth's concept sounds good on paper, in practice the lack of dialogue + voice in an otherwise very wordy game just makes it really hard for me to care about them. I imagine they work better in Hopes because they're no longer a mute who unfortunately makes up the bulk of the game's one-on-one supports
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 23:37 |
|
|
They really underutilize Sothis for some reason
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2023 03:49
|
|