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Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Is it illegal to pretend to be blind in a gbs thread?

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Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Is it illegal to pretend to be blind in a gbs thread?

What did you think the B stood for

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

generally blind shitposters

Leviathan Song
Sep 8, 2010

BigHead posted:

I only ever seen that tried once. The judge was rolling his eyes as the expert testified "Technically it's possible but you would need to eat four hundred large muffins in about seven minutes."

Then the judge asked "What if I ate ur mom's one really big muffin for seven minutes? Lol gotem"

Seriously though the government recommends 2000ng/ml cutoff for "positive" results for the drugs that hit positive after consuming poppy seed muffins. It's extremely unlikely that any amount of muffins can get you that high of a number. Some testing methods have a cutoff of 300ng/ml which can get a "positive" but generally only if the poppy seeds are not baked with the product. So, like, a muffin probably won't hit 300ng/ml but a Danish might if the raw poppy seeds are mixed with the jam then liberally applied to the Danish.

I used to do a lot of drug DUIs.

Are those mohn hamentashen something to worry about? The ones filled with poppy seed paste are loving amazing but I always wondered if the could show up on a drug test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed_paste

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

BigHead posted:


Seriously though the government recommends 2000ng/ml cutoff for "positive" results for the drugs that hit positive after consuming poppy seed muffins. It's extremely unlikely that any amount of muffins can get you that high of a number.

Seems like a challenge.
Also lol at an attorney actually trying to argue an accidental intox on a opioid DUI. You just argue he wasn't THAT high. (No really, I also tried a lot of drug DUIs.)

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Leviathan Song posted:

Are those mohn hamentashen something to worry about? The ones filled with poppy seed paste are loving amazing but I always wondered if the could show up on a drug test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed_paste

Well here's the study that says 25 grams of raw uncooked poppy seeds will make you test positive for 100ng/ml of morphine. Morphine is what heroin turns into after it passes through your liver. Remember governments recommend a 2000ng/ml cutoff to assign "positive."

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=poppy+seed+opiate+urine+test&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1673588797001&u=%23p%3D8Op8h1cTDq4J

Apparently the morphine in the poppy seeds is from "cross contamination" with the bad parts of the plant as they harvest. Another study says 90 percent of the morphine cooks off with "food processing," which I assume is muffin baking:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=poppy+seed+opiate+urine+test&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1673589166123&u=%23p%3D209wGjaeRkAJ

So, 250g of cooked poppy seeds will get you up to 100ng/ml of morphine in your blood. Too hit 2000ng/ml you'd need 20 times more, or 5000g of cooked poppy seeds. That's a lot of muffins. And you need more because metabolism will cleanse the morphine with time, so your first muffin's morphine will be peed out by the time you eat muffin 400. I don't know if the poppy seeds in your poppy seed jam Danish count as "food processed" or what they do at the poppy seed farm to process the seeds for shipping.

Let's keep going. Here's a recipe from King Arthur (the flour company) that requires 28g of poppy seeds for 12 muffins, or 2.3333g per muffin.

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/lemon-poppy-seed-muffins-recipe

Therefore to hit the minimum level of stoned off poppy seed muffins you need to consume 2143 muffins, eaten very quickly so as to not metabolize any muffins out of your blood stream.

Of course, if you can get your hands on unprocessed raw poppy seeds then you only need 500g, which just thinking about it I could probably do with a spoon if I had enough motivation.

If you go to Google scholar and just search for poppy seed opiate urine testing you get a million results and you can read all the headers (I think they're called headers) for free. Google scholar is the best.

BigHead fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jan 13, 2023

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Even though the government recommends the 2000 limit, according to wikipedia, some places still use the 300 limit which seems ...not great

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

What if youre putting poppy seeds directly into your urethra

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

bird with big dick posted:

What if youre putting poppy seeds directly into your urethra

Poppy seed sounding

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

BigHead posted:

Therefore to hit the minimum level of stoned off poppy seed muffins you need to consume 2143 muffins, eaten very quickly so as to not metabolize any muffins out of your blood stream.

Challenge: accepted

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

blarzgh posted:

Challenge: accepted

I'm gonna bake you up 2300 muffins and watch you eat em all

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

I'm gonna bake you up 2300 muffins and watch you eat em all

I'm not here to sate your sexual fantasies

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


What about poppy seed tea? Which I only know about because people were getting sick from a bad batch of supermarket poppy seeds.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
I bet you could make a paste of concentrated poppyseeds and boof that, maybe that would work

null_pointer
Nov 9, 2004

Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop.

Smashmouth blarzgh eat the eggs poppy seed muffins

Leviathan Song
Sep 8, 2010

Phil Moscowitz posted:

I bet you could make a paste of concentrated poppyseeds and boof that, maybe that would work

That's why I mentioned the hamentashen. They're filled with a paste that's about 50/50 sugar and ground poppy seeds. They sell 2 pound cans of it on amazon. I've never seen someone sit down and eat a can but I've seen someone sit down and eat about half of it in pastries.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Even though the government recommends the 2000 limit, according to wikipedia, some places still use the 300 limit which seems ...not great

I've argued the poppy seed muffin thing but only in diversion program settings where people had blown a test but were otherwise fully in conpliance.compliance. It worked as well as it needed to.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

So it's basically a myth that Seinfeld created and let's defense lawyers grasp at something for their opiod-addled clients?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

So it's basically a myth that Seinfeld created and let's defense lawyers grasp at something for their opiod-addled clients?

No, it's not a myth -- comically Mythbusters tested it and even confirmed it in an episode.

The issue is that because it's real, anyone testing to a judicial standard should know it is real and use a test calibrated to screen out low exposures. It's real, so a good test makes sure it's accounted for and screened out.

You'll still see it sometimes though on cheaper, lower-standard testing. It's a potential danger for like workplace drug screens and other settings where people might be using bad tests, but in a DUI case the standard is actual impairment and a muffin won't impair you.

Tl;Dr: there's enough real truth to it that you might be able to convince your boss, but it won't work in a trial unless the prosecution severely hosed up

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jan 13, 2023

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

So do you cite mythbusters...?

Trapick
Apr 17, 2006

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

So do you cite mythbusters...?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181466/ - actual studies have been done, probably cite those. But even in the abstract they say "An important caveat is that in none of these cases did maximum urinary codeine concentrations exceed 1,300 ng/mL." - so if the test threshold is 2000 it's probably drugs and not bagels.

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.
I've been reading about that sewer service case in California. Out of curiosity, how do you, as a lawyer, combat that if you're defending a client that's been a victim of it?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

So do you cite mythbusters...?

If you're in a setting where you need a citation it probably won't work anyway

If you're trying to convince your probation agent at an admin hearing maybe you get lucky and they saw mythbusters

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

If you're in a setting where you need a citation it probably won't work anyway

If you're trying to convince your probation agent at an admin hearing maybe you get lucky and they saw mythbusters

Come on man help me out court is in 30m!

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Come on man help me out court is in 30m!

Let's just tell the judge you want rehab.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
have you tried just telling the judge that lemon poppy seed muffins are fun and all the cool kids are having them for breakfast???

should work imo

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Come on man help me out court is in 30m!

So what you’re gonna do is you’re going to plead guilty to statutory ra

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




San Antonio, TX.

I have a friend who has had the water main break in her front yard 5 times and the foundation of the house has shifted. I can only assume it is the service pipe to the house and not the actual water main since it is in the yard. The city is claiming they have no liability for the foundation damage. That's pretty much all I know. Does she have any recourse or can anybody give any advice?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



I don’t know TX law but a quick googling says the responsibility shifts to the homeowner at the property line. Some places it might be the meter as the line of demarcation. If it’s on their property and on the house side of the meter, they’re probably hosed.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
Tell him to Google up an attorney that does imminent domain/ condemnation cases, and that attorney will have a really good idea of why the city's almost certainly not liable to them.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

blarzgh posted:

Tell him to Google up an attorney that does imminent domain/ condemnation cases, and that attorney will have a really good idea of why the city's almost certainly not liable to them.

eminent.

Come on. You know that. We've had cases together!

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

eminent.

Come on. You know that. We've had cases together!

Spell check never lost me a case

Doug Sisk
Sep 11, 2001

blarzgh posted:

Spell check never lost me a case

Have there been any cases that were won or lost due to spell check out autocorrect?
Genuine question, seems like the kind of thing that would be interesting.

null_pointer
Nov 9, 2004

Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop.

Hypothetical but extremely practical: If a cop stops you and says the typical stupid poo poo like "do you know why I stopped you" or "do you know how fast you were going", etc, what's the correct answer?

Obviously it isn't "no I don't" because I guess that could be seen as self incrimination (Captain Acab writes "did not know what speed limit was" or "did not know their speed" and you've screwed yourself, if you have any desire to fight it in court). What do you say, though? Just repeat "I don't answer questions like that, sir" or "I'm sorry, but I don't answer any question that may incriminate me in a court" or "Am I free to go" etc? Is there a way to do that without the cop checking your skin tone and wondering if he can get away with extrajudicial punishment?

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Doug Sisk posted:

Have there been any cases that were won or lost due to spell check out autocorrect?
Genuine question, seems like the kind of thing that would be interesting.

The WA Supreme Court just reversed a case in part because the transcripionist (a person of color) transcribed the prosecutor (who I don't know) as consistently saying "po-leece" instead of "police." The WASC held this was clear evidence that the prosecutor was racist because only black people would say it like that and talking like a black person should be forbidden. It was a very strange case.

Edit there was a lot of other bad stuff in the case and it should have been reversed.

BigHead fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jan 16, 2023

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

BigHead posted:

The WA Supreme Court just reversed a case because the transcripionist (a person of color) transcribed the prosecutor (who I don't know) as consistently saying "po-leece" instead of "police." The WASC held this was clear evidence that the prosecutor was racist because only black people would say it like that and talking like a black person should be forbidden. It was a very strange case.

What's the caption on this? I didn't see this case in any of the most recent opinions on the site, but I didn't see any issued in 2023.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 23, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

null_pointer posted:

Obviously it isn't "no I don't" because I guess that could be seen as self incrimination (Captain Acab writes "did not know what speed limit was" or "did not know their speed" and you've screwed yourself, if you have any desire to fight it in court).

You don't know why he pulled you over. Maybe you were speeding. Maybe you were following too close to another car. Maybe he mistook your car for some other car. Maybe he has no reason and is just fishing. I think a polite, friendly "No, I'm not sure officer" would be fine for "do you know why I pulled you over". But it's not a perfect answer for every question; it wouldn't work well for "do you know how fast you were going?" for the reasons you articulate.

The most general "on-script" answer is probably to stay polite and friendly and possibly have an apologetic expression on your face and say something like "sorry, I can't answer questions without talking to my lawyer". The whole combative "am I free to go" business is your right, but practically speaking there's no upside. The fight is in court, not the side of the road.

Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

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null_pointer posted:

Hypothetical but extremely practical: If a cop stops you and says the typical stupid poo poo like "do you know why I stopped you" or "do you know how fast you were going", etc, what's the correct answer?

"Hello officer. Here's my license and insurance." Just ignore the question.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Devor posted:

What's the caption on this? I didn't see this case in any of the most recent opinions on the site, but I didn't see any issued in 2023.

It was different than I remembered, and worse. This is what we read cases that we cite kids! This was a citation in a recent case, not the recent case itself.

"More recently, we ordered a new criminal trial when the prosecutor exaggerated the pronunciation of the word "police" as "`po-leese'" and [a bunch of other bad stuff] State v. Monday, 171 Wash.2d 667, 671-74, 257 P.3d 551 (2011) "

BigHead fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jan 16, 2023

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Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
I love the “how to avoid paying the ticket I earned” discussion.

If you got pulled over you probably did something wrong. Acknowledge it like an adult, pay your fine, and next time drive within the laws.

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